How to confirm that Publisher is printing CMYK seperations ?

[Mr. Analogy]

Hi,

I'm working on our next catalog version. I'd like to again do it in
Publisher (2003 or upgrade to 200). I want to make sure that it will output
the content (with respect to position of all elements) and provide proper
CYMYK separations. Design consultants are telling me I should be using
Indesign, etc. because they are "real" DTP programs. I had an awful
experience trying to use Adobe PageMaker back in 1999 or so and never looked
back. Publisher was much easier to use. Once we printed to PDF using 2 spot
color it worked fairly well. However, now we're doing full color (CMYK) and I
want to make sure it'll work OK with the publisher.


I understand that color and brightness, etc. can be a little "off". That's
something I'll just need to see a final Contract Proof from the printer to
know is OK.

However, I've read that Publisher will not output CMYK separations.

MY PROCEDURE
* Save images as CMYK mode .TIFFs with LZW compression (using Photoshop)
* Print CMYK color seperations from Publisher
I'm using Nitro PDF to print from Publisher to a PDF using Post Script
Level 3. (My understanding is that PS 3 or higher is needed to create color
separations).

When I print the PDF it *looks* ok in my pdf viewer.

How can I confirm that Publisher has, indeed, printed the 4 separations?

 

[Mr. Analogy]

My question above refers to how to verify that it's printing the CMYK as a
*composite* correctly.

(If I print as individual Separations I can indeed see there are 4 different
"sheets" printed which appear as grayscale for each color "plate".

 

[Matt Beals]

Well it's not quite so easy to get good CMYK coming out of Publisher.
Let alone as CMYK composite. You really would be much better served
sending an RGB PDF and let the printer convert to CMYK. If you don't
want to send RGB then I could convert it for you. There are a ton of
pitfalls to watch out for when working in Office products for commercial
printing.

I'd be happy to take a look at the job for you.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

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[Mr. Analogy]

What are the typical issues (problems in the completed document) with
Publisher Printing CMYK separations to PDF?
(I.e., are the colors "off", or is is that the seperations don't "line up"
(I think that's called "register or registraion?) or something else?

Would we send you the RGB PDF or the original Publisher files?

We're potentially going to have to go through several iterations (We design,
you convert, the Printer ...prints... we look at it. Lather and repeat.).

Is there any way for us to see how the CMYK document looks?
(I've printed from Publisher to NitroPDF using CMYK composite and the color
is a little different but tolerable). This would let us see both how much we
*need* you to convert it and how much better it has become.


-Clay

 

[Matt Beals]

For every printer, printing press and paper combination there is a
unique CMYK color space. CMYK is not CMYK. Digital presses have
different characteristics that conventional printing presses. A 10 year
old Heidelberg printing press has different characteristics than any
other 10 year old Heidelberg press. Each printing company has their own
"CMYK" that they like to print. Most printers use "SWOP CMYK" for their
printing. SWOP CMYK, aka "SWOP", was originally designed as a
specification, not a standard. "Specification for Web Offset Printing".
When you think of SWOP think of Time Magazine from 10 years ago. Ugly
yellowish, thin paper. Being that it is a specification it is simply a
"guide line" you can kind of follow. The gamut, color range, of SWOP is
small compared to other CMYK spaces. So if you want to maximize the
colors in the document, as much as physics allow for, then you have to
use a different CMYK. Your print provider may have an ICC profile,
something that defines the range of colors that are printable, that can
be used to convert from RGB to CMYK.

RGB is significantly larger, orders of magnitude put simply, than CMYK.
RGB is really what we see in the real world with our eyes. CMYK is only
a small subset of those colors. Some colors translate from RGB to CMYK
perfectly ( called "in gamut" ). Other colors in RGB simply don't exist
in CMYK so we have to guess at how close we can come. The smaller the
CMYK space, gamut, the fewer colors will fit perfectly in RGB and CMYK.

And then there is proofing. We still haven't gotten to that yet... And
there's still monitor calibration. And process controls... There's a lot
that goes into it.

The basics of it is this: Anyone and any printer can print CMYK. The
question is *how well* can they print it?

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

 

[Mr. Analogy]

If I set color (Tools> Commercial Printing Tools> Color Printing) to CMYK
color will that limit the colors I choose to those within the CMYK gamut?
(realizing of course that all CMYK colors may vary in final appearance from
printer to printer)

That way, I'd at least remove one more variable (RGB gamut->CMYK Gamut
conversion). Is that correct?

 

[Matt Beals]

The problem with Publisher CMYK is that no one really knows *which* CMYK
it is. Therefore we don't really know how big of a gamut it has. Chances
are that it is *very* close to SWOP. Keep in mind though that SWOP CMYK
is ***OLD*** and meant for web printing presses, 133 line screen (LPI),
300% ink coverage, 5% highlight and 85% shadow, a certain kind of ink,
certain density of ink and the most important part, crappy paper (#5
ground wood, think "magazine paper"). SWOP has been updated with the new
GRACoL specification (no, I did NOT say or mean standard) with all sorts
of new parameters that make it much better. But not everyone works that way.

All CMYK is not created equally well. You have to be very precise and
methodical when converting to CMYK to get the best results. Publisher
will not do that for you. It does not understand color management. That
is to say it doesn't know how to be smart about converting color from
one color space to another (RGB to CMYK for example). Sure, it can do
it, anyone can build a house. Not just anyone can do it well though.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

 

[Matt Beals]

Yes, it was spot colors. Have you tried to match spot colors in CMYK?
Most of them don't translate exactly. Only about a fourth to a third of
them do.

First, I don't drink wine. I drink single-malts. And second, I resent
the comment in its entirety. I'm not attacking you, so why the attack on me?

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

 

[Matt Beals]

Which CMYK though? That's my point. If it's SWOP then you are limiting
yourself compared to GRACoL 2006 1v4 or FOGRA39.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email