PDF transparency

J

Jan Kucera

Hi, is there any way to tell Publisher (2007) to render transparent graphics
to PDF better? I know PDF itself is not transparent-friendly, but if I use
Adobe products, there seems to be no such problems (black contures around
the images).

Thanks, Jan
 
M

Matt Beals

J

Jan Kucera

Well I agree.. but isn't there any way how to change this behaviour in
Publisher?
 
M

Matt Beals

No, not really. None that I know of inside of Publisher. Maybe someone else
knows a way. The only way to flatten transparency in Publisher is to print
to a printer. Transparency doesn't exist in PostScript. So it has to be
flattened. And how Publisher flattens transparency I don't think anyone
outside of Microsoft really knows. I know it rasterizes it, but not *how* it
is rasterized. With Adobe products you can tell it how to .

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
 
U

Uncle Grumpy

Jan Kucera said:
Well I agree.. but isn't there any way how to change this behaviour in
Publisher?

I recently set up my system so that a publication I produce can be
printed by a commercial publisher.

I was told that even though I am using Acrobat 8, the use of
transparency settings is not supported.
 
M

Matt Beals

I recently set up my system so that a publication I produce can be
printed by a commercial publisher.

I was told that even though I am using Acrobat 8, the use of
transparency settings is not supported.

That sounds like your printer doesn't want to support transparency.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
 
U

Uncle Grumpy

Matt Beals said:
On 4/15/07 1:54 PM, in article (e-mail address removed),


That sounds like your printer doesn't want to support transparency.

I don't care what it "sounds" like, it's what my commercial publisher
told me about converting .PUB files to .PDF files when I submit them
for commercial printing.
 
M

Matt Beals

So then how were you told to flatten the transparency? How do you flatten
transparency in Publisher? What settings are there to use to control the
flattening process?

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com



Matt Beals said:
On 4/15/07 1:54 PM, in article (e-mail address removed),


That sounds like your printer doesn't want to support transparency.

I don't care what it "sounds" like, it's what my commercial publisher
told me about converting .PUB files to .PDF files when I submit them
for commercial printing.
 
M

Mike Koewler

Perhaps your printer ought to tell Adobe that Acrobat doesn't support
transparency. They seem to think it does - at least according to this:
"In addition to supporting industry-standard PDF/X-1a and PDF/X-3 files,
Acrobat 8 Professional now outputs PDF/X-4 for native transparency
support, as well as PDF/A for long-term archiving."

Mike
 
M

Matt Beals

What?? Acrobat doesn't support transparency?? PDF/X-1a, PDF/X-3, PDF/A,
PDF/E and PDF/H don't support transparency. But PDF does and has since PDF
version 1.4 which was Acrobat 5.

What PDF/X-4 does is now allow for transparency to be used in exchanging
PDF/X files. PDF/X (X1, X2, and X3) has always explicity *not* allowed
transparency to be present to be certified as a PDF/X file. PDF and PDF/X
are basically the same in that they are both Adobe PDF. But what
differentiates PDF/X from PDF is that PDF/X is specifically for the
printing/graphics industries. PDF/X-1a is for the "blind exchange" of art.
PDF/X-2 was never really used. It allowed for non-embedded fonts and OPI. It
was inteneded for use in catalog publishing. PDF/X-3 was for exchanging art
where ICC profiles could be attached to art or to the PDF. PDF/X-4 will
expand on this (PDF/X-1a and PDF/X-3) and allow for Acrobat 1.6 (if I recall
correctly) and the presence of live transparency. This way print providers
can flatten the transparency manually or now in-RIP with the Adobe Print
Engine.

PDF/A is intended for long term archiving. The Library Of Congress was a big
supporter of this ISO standard. In fact all PDF/A, E, H and X formats are
ISO standards. PDF/E is for engineering fields, PDF/H is for health care and
PDF/X is for graphic arts.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com



Perhaps your printer ought to tell Adobe that Acrobat doesn't support
transparency. They seem to think it does - at least according to this:
"In addition to supporting industry-standard PDF/X-1a and PDF/X-3 files,
Acrobat 8 Professional now outputs PDF/X-4 for native transparency
support, as well as PDF/A for long-term archiving."

Mike
 
U

Uncle Grumpy

Matt Beals said:
So then how were you told to flatten the transparency? How do you flatten
transparency in Publisher? What settings are there to use to control the
flattening process?

I'm admittedly very new to Publisher. I'm using 2007 with Acrobat 8
and maybe I'm using the wrong terminology.

My statement comes from my memory with the one meeting I had with that
rep who showed me how to use their "2 over 2" "process blue" color
scheme.
 
M

Matt Beals

Sounds fair. I wasn't sure if they had told you how to manipulate Publishers
settings. It sounds like they're showing you how to "trick" Publisher (and
others) into getting two color work out.

Matt Beals said:
So then how were you told to flatten the transparency? How do you flatten
transparency in Publisher? What settings are there to use to control the
flattening process?

I'm admittedly very new to Publisher. I'm using 2007 with Acrobat 8
and maybe I'm using the wrong terminology.

My statement comes from my memory with the one meeting I had with that
rep who showed me how to use their "2 over 2" "process blue" color
scheme.
 
U

Uncle Grumpy

Matt Beals said:
Sounds fair. I wasn't sure if they had told you how to manipulate Publishers
settings. It sounds like they're showing you how to "trick" Publisher (and
others) into getting two color work out.

I'm producing the weekly Sunday bulletin for my parish.

The "process blue" scheme has three colors: black, a deep blue, and
white.

Whatever I choose to color in any shade of that blue in Publisher and
then send to them in Acrobat's PDF format (also using special
settings) will be printed in the color of the week by the publisher in
similar shadings.

Black will always be printed in black, white always in white.

It's magic ;-)
 
J

Jan Kucera

Hi Matt again, I was thinking about this a while, and I don't think you're
right. Either PDF is absolutely transparency non-friendly, or there is
nothing to handle. If I have transparent image and it has to be flattened,
than the PDF is not transparenty friendly. If it hasn't to be flattened, why
there are different results when displaying transparent images?

Jan
 
M

Matt Beals

You're confusing issues. Adobe PDF is transparency friendly and has been
since Acrobat 5. That is irrefutable. Look it up in the PDF specification.
Transparency doesn't exist in the physical world. So to be printed it has to
be flattened. That fact is irrefutable too. The print providers have to deal
with transparency in one of three ways:

1) Reject it
2) flatten it in an application like Acrobat, Illustrator, InDesign or
PhotoShop, Quark or by printing. As in "file menu -> Print".
3) Flatten it in the RIP by sending the RIP a PDF.

You can't send a RIP a file with transparency by using PostScript because
transparency doesn't exist in PostScript. In order to do so you have to
flatten the transparency. Which brings us back to option 2.

Why are there different results? Because the process of flattening can be
handled differently by changing parameters, there are different blending
modes and different color spaces for the blending. No one knows how
Publisher does it. But you can direct the Adobe applications and the Adobe
Print Engine to handle transparency in different ways. Most RIP's now
internally convert a PDF to PostScript. Not many of them handle PDF
directly, on the Harlequin based RIPs *can*. Not all do.

If you are using transparency for web work then you've overcome the problem
of physics. Because it's all math at that point. Pigmented inks are physical
and used in printing. Transparency simply doesn't exist in the printing
world except as a mathematical process.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
 

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