Auto read receipts

[villajay]

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel
Email Client: Exchange

Looks like Entourage is automatically sending read receipts to those that request it (or at least, using Entourage causes the sending of read receipts). Tested this using a test account with Outlook 2007.

Sent messages with delivery and read notifications. Got the delivery emails back, and after opening the message in Entourage, the read receipt arrives.

Sent more test messages, this time using Outlook, receipt handling is as it should be (it asked me first, or just ignored it completely). Go back to Entourage, the read receipt email arrives. Checked the sent items and the receipts are not there. Interaction between Exchange and Entourage causing server to send notification?

 

[William Smith [MVP]]

Looks like Entourage is automatically sending read receipts to those
that request it (or at least, using Entourage causes the sending of
read receipts). Tested this using a test account with Outlook 2007.

Sent messages with delivery and read notifications. Got the delivery
emails back, and after opening the message in Entourage, the read
receipt arrives.

Sent more test messages, this time using Outlook, receipt handling is
as it should be (it asked me first, or just ignored it completely).
Go back to Entourage, the read receipt email arrives. Checked the
sent items and the receipts are not there. Interaction between
Exchange and Entourage causing server to send notification?

Entourage has no built-in mechanism for responding to *read* receipt
requests. These would be coming from your Exchange Server. Ask your
administrator to disable these for your account.

*Delivery* receipts are sent from the server acknowledging that the
message has reached the *mailbox* not that it has been downloaded and read.

Hope this helps!

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://nine.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/youtalk>
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/meck>

 

[Justin]

I'm also having this problem. I recently changed an Entourage 2008 user
from POP3 to Exchange and now everyone that requests a receipt is told the
user deleted it without reading it because I'm moving all inbox messages to
LOCAL INBOX. I guess Entourage does a COPY then a DELETE when it moves.

If Exchange is doing this then WHY does it only happen to my ONE Entourage
user and none of my HTTP/RPC Outlook users using Exchange?

Receipts is a server feature that is CONTROLLED by a client. I read a LOT
of forums about this issue and every one had someone claiming this is not
supported by Entourage. That is FALSE. Entourage is either sending the
receipt or telling telling Exchange to send it. It is in fact Entourage
that is controlling this feature natively and out of the box.

Exchange does not send receipts on it's own accord.

So is the end result that Entourage auto sends receipts via the Exchange
connection and we're just stuck with it?

 

[Adam Bailey]

So is the end result that Entourage auto sends receipts via the Exchange
connection and we're just stuck with it?

Entourage doesn't SEND a receipt, but it will tell the server that a message
is being deleted and the server is then telling that to the sender. Turn the
feature off at the server level.

 

[Marty]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

Looks like Entourage is automatically sending read receipts to those
that request it (or at least, using Entourage causes the sending of
read receipts). Tested this using a test account with Outlook 2007.
emails back, and after opening the message in Entourage, the read >

receipt arrives. > > Sent more test messages, this time using Outlook,
receipt handling is > as it should be (it asked me first, or just ignored
it completely). > Go back to Entourage, the read receipt email arrives.
Checked the > sent items and the receipts are not there. Interaction between

Exchange and Entourage causing server to send notification?

Entourage has no built-in mechanism for responding to *read* receipt requests.
These would be coming from your Exchange Server. Ask your administrator
to disable these for your account.





*Delivery* receipts are sent from the server acknowledging that the message
has reached the *mailbox* not that it has been downloaded and read.





Hope this helps!





--





bill





Entourage Help Page Entourage Help Blog YouTalk Twitter: follow

 

[Justin]

Care to tell me where? There is NO documentation that I can find that
discusses turning this off on the Exchange level. As far as MICROSOFT
Exchange MVPs are concerned, they are telling me to have Entourage, "knock
it off".

However, thank you for admitting it's Entourage that is controlling this.

 

[Justin]

"not that it has been downloaded and read."
That is false. Entourage will ask Exchange to send a receipt. Including a
DELETED receipt. That's an action that ENTOURAGE is performing. As far as
I can tell, MS screwed up big time by not allowing us to turn that function
off.

How many email clients does MS have? This is the ONLY ONE that doesn't
properly handle receipts.

 

[villajay]

Care to tell me where? There is NO documentation that I can find that

discusses turning this off on the Exchange level. As far as MICROSOFT
Exchange MVPs are concerned, they are telling me to have Entourage, "knock
it off".

However, thank you for admitting it's Entourage that is controlling this.


in message

Entourage doesn't SEND a receipt, but it will tell the server that a
message
is being deleted and the server is then telling that to the sender. Turn
the
feature off at the server level.

like justin said, that's nowhere to be found on the exchange server. the Entourage MVP's may be right in that Entourage does not specifically process read receipts, but there is just something funky about the way Entourage interacts with Exchange that it causes the server to send it regardless. How do you explain the examples and the test scenarios?

 

[Justin]

Exactly! I can confirm the receipt is not being WRITTEN by Entourage.
That's simple. Just look at the email headers.

Received: by MAIL SERVER
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report;
report-type=disposition-notification;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C91D98.648FC85A"
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:mdn


The important part being "Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5". However,
all the same Entourage is asking for the receipt to be created. As the
Exchange MVP's have stated, Entourage needs to "knock it off."

 

[William Smith [MVP]]

Care to tell me where? There is NO documentation that I can find that
discusses turning this off on the Exchange level. As far as MICROSOFT
Exchange MVPs are concerned, they are telling me to have Entourage,
"knock it off".

However, thank you for admitting it's Entourage that is controlling this.

Hi Justin!

Adam hasn't acknowledged that Entourage is "controlling" anything.

Entourage has no concept of receipts of any kind. It can respond to them
and it can't send them. Any of them. Period.

What Adam is saying is that when Entourage signals to the server that it
has opened a message then Exchange is acting on that signal. That signal
is not a message telling Exchange to doing anything other than mark the
message as having been opened.

Log in to any of your problem accounts with Outlook and check the
settings there for receipts. Disable all of them. Then test with
Entourage. What happens?

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://nine.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/youtalk>
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/meck>

 

[Adam Bailey]

"not that it has been downloaded and read."
That is false. Entourage will ask Exchange to send a receipt.

No. Entourage is telling Exchange what it did with the message. Exchange is
then taking that information and notifying other people.

 

[Justin]

Since TELLING means GETTING then that's the same thing as ASKING.

Get it? Entourage is CAUSING the receipt to be sent. Entourage needs a
setting to turn that off the TELLING.

As I already mentioned. Outlook running on the Exchange connector using RPC
over HTTP/S (or not) does not do this because it has options to TURN IT OFF.

 

[Justin]

"Entourage signals to the server"
Not only has Adam acknowledge that Entourage is controlling this, so have
you. Right here. See the quote? Entourage is SIGNALING. Entourage is
performing an ACTION. Other email clients (even from Microsoft) have the
option to turn OFF this signaling.

So like I said, "it's Entourage that is controlling this." Or do you
prefer, Entourage is CAUSING this? Especially since other email clients
have options to turn ON and OFF the "signaling".

Entourage has no business sending out mass "I'VE READ YOUR EMAIL" "signals".
That sort of treads on the whole right of privacy issue.

"Disable all of them. Then test with Entourage. What happens?"
Absolutely nothing. I've already done that. You can also do the same thing
with OWA which is much less of a hassle then setting up Outlook.

Although I find it rather comical that MS would require an APPLE user to use
OUTLOOK (a Windows product) to properly manage ENTOURAGE (an OSX product).

But thanks for the suggestion. I'll try anything twice at this point. The
user is very upset about this. Frankly, so am I as well as irritated.
Which I'm sure is showing in my messages so I apologize if I'm offending
anyone.

 

[Adam Bailey]

"Entourage signals to the server"
Not only has Adam acknowledge that Entourage is controlling this, so have
you. Right here. See the quote? Entourage is SIGNALING. Entourage is
performing an ACTION. Other email clients (even from Microsoft) have the
option to turn OFF this signaling.

Entourage has to tell the server that a message has been read, otherwise it
will never be marked read. Since Entourage is not aware of Receipts and does
not handle them, you cannot configure Entourage not to send Receipts. That a
SERVER-based receipt is sent is not Entourage's fault.

I don't pretend to understand the complexities of WebDAV, Exchange, and
Entourage's relation to them. What I do understand is that:

a) in the SHORT TERM you need to take this up with your Exchange administrator
b) Send Feedback to Microsoft (Help menu) requesting more robust support for
Return Receipts *in future versions*

 

[Justin]

"Entourage has to tell the server that a message has been read, otherwise it
will never be marked read."

I'm afraid you wont get very far with that. Outlook (and all other Exchange
based clients) tell the Exchange server that the email was read and the
email gets marked as read. Yet THOSE CLIENTS don't cause a read receipt to
get sent.

So, how do you explain that?

"a) in the SHORT TERM you need to take this up with your Exchange
administrator"
I am the Exchange administrator.

In addition to that, Exchange MVPs are telling me to take this up with
people in this group.

 

[William Smith [MVP]]

"Entourage has to tell the server that a message has been read,
otherwise it will never be marked read."

I'm afraid you wont get very far with that. Outlook (and all other
Exchange based clients) tell the Exchange server that the email was read
and the email gets marked as read. Yet THOSE CLIENTS don't cause a read
receipt to get sent.

So, how do you explain that?

"a) in the SHORT TERM you need to take this up with your Exchange
administrator"
I am the Exchange administrator.

In addition to that, Exchange MVPs are telling me to take this up with
people in this group.

Justin, I can't speak for the Exchange MVPs about Exchange but they
can't speak for what we know about Entourage. I'm sorry you're standing
in between both of us pointing fingers at each other.

I'm going to ask one of the Exchange MVPs to come view this thread and
weigh in his opinion.

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://nine.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/youtalk>
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/meck>

 

[Paul Robichaux [MVP-Exchange]]

"Entourage has to tell the server that a message has been read, otherwise it
will never be marked read."

I'm afraid you wont get very far with that. Outlook (and all other Exchange
based clients) tell the Exchange server that the email was read and the
email gets marked as read. Yet THOSE CLIENTS don't cause a read receipt to
get sent.

So, how do you explain that?

"a) in the SHORT TERM you need to take this up with your Exchange
administrator"
I am the Exchange administrator.

In addition to that, Exchange MVPs are telling me to take this up with
people in this group.

Justin, I'm an Exchange MVP, and I'm here to help

Entourage simply doesn't have any receipt functionality. It doesn't
request them, it doesn't honor them, and it will ignore any request to
send or receive them.

Exchange can produce delivery status notifications (DSNs) under several
circumstances. One such is that a delivery receipt was requested by the
sender. In that case, Exchange generates the message once the message is
delivered to the store. The client doesn't have anything to do with it.

Entourage uses DAV to mark messages as read. Outlook uses MAPI. The
result of the operations each client performs should be the same. It's
possible that it is not, but the behavior you're seeing isn't because
Entourage supports receipts.

Cheers,
-Paul

 

[Justin]

William, Thank you.

Paul,
Well, for the first time a distinction has been brought to light. DAV
versus MAPI. Can't say I know anything about DAV. All searches for it
return WebDAV??? Can you spell out DAV for me so I can research it?

As noted Outlook using the Exchange connector does not automatically cause
requested read receipts to be sent. So if it's DAV that is causing this and
Entourage uses DAV then I still don't see how blame is removed from
Entourage.

Yes, I understand that Entourage does not HANDLE receipts. However if I'm
only responsible for touching the first domino am I not responsible for the
last one to fall? Again, no other email client that I've ever used causes
this.

If the end result to this is no fix then I'll be forced to discontinue use
of Entourage. As well, because the user will want to continue using
Exchange features, this will force the user to switch to Windows. Mission
accomplished?

 

[Barry Wainwright]

William, Thank you.

Paul,
Well, for the first time a distinction has been brought to light. DAV
versus MAPI. Can't say I know anything about DAV. All searches for it
return WebDAV??? Can you spell out DAV for me so I can research it?

same thing - Paul was using an abbreviation.

As noted Outlook using the Exchange connector does not automatically
cause requested read receipts to be sent. So if it's DAV that is
causing this and Entourage uses DAV then I still don't see how blame is
removed from Entourage.

Yes, I understand that Entourage does not HANDLE receipts. However if
I'm only responsible for touching the first domino am I not responsible
for the last one to fall? Again, no other email client that I've ever
used causes this.

not my experience.

i have had problems with DNRs being sent out in response to mail
delivered to users of outlook who have never so much as laid a finger on
a mac.

i looked long and hard for a way to prevent Exchange from sending these
and ended up having to set a filter on the server to block them from
leaving the server, rather than preventing them from being created!

 

[Justin]

Thanks for your input Barry. Which reminds me, I forgot to hit on the other
issue at hand. How to keep "Exchange" from creating these receipts. You
are one of many who have claimed there is no way to do as such from within
Exchange.

Can I pick your brain on the filter you setup? Was that an Exchange filter
or third party? What criteria did you use for the filter?

Thanks again for the help.