OneNote should fully support WACOM pens on Desktops/Laptops

[McAkins]

Desktop users envy the handwriting recognition of pen in Tablet PCs and those
of us using Pen (Wacom Tablets) with the desktop/laptop computers feel we are
being left out of the fun. Basically the input infrastructure is the same, so
why is handwriting recognition not support on desktops for pen users.

We are happy we can annotate with OneNote on the desktop pcs, please give us
also handwriting recognition too! Thanks for you time.

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http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...aa0b-08319249e514&dg=microsoft.public.onenote

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

Desktop users envy the handwriting recognition of pen in Tablet PCs and
those
of us using Pen (Wacom Tablets) with the desktop/laptop computers feel
we are
being left out of the fun. Basically the input infrastructure is the
same, so
why is handwriting recognition not support on desktops for pen users.

Unfortunately the input infrastructure is not the same. The capture rate
on a Wacom is much, much lower than the capture rate on a TabletPC
digitizer.

The second issue is that the handwriting recognition on the TabletPC is
supported by the operating system. Windows XP Home or Pro does not
provide that service.

So it's really not in the hands of the OneNote team. First Wacom would
have to create a tablet that could capture pen strokes at a comparable
rate; then the Windows team would have to add the digital ink features to
Windows XP Home or Pro.

--
-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP-OneNote/Outlook
Operations Coordinator
Stockholm/KSG - Honolulu
Microsoft OneNote FAQ:
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr/computers/onenotefaq.htm

 

[Chris H.]

As Ben as pointed out, and we have numerous times before in this newsgroup
(do a little search on "Ink" for instance" or "writing pad") there is a vast
difference between Tablet PC digital Ink recognizers and a writing pad.

For starters, most pads record characters or words, and at the rate of 40
samples per second - that of a common mouse.

Tablet PC digital recognizers record the individual pen strokes which make
up each letter, and sample at a rate of roughly 130 samples per second for
much more clarity and accuracy.

Creation of "writing" on a pad is that of an overall graphic, cannot be
edited, is unsearchable and quite frankly inferior both in results and user
experience to the digital recognition of the Tablet PC mechanism.

On a Tablet PC in digital Ink, you can actually erase a portion or an entire
letter out of a word, changing, as an example the word "food" to "ford" be
erasing the second "o" and replacing it with an "r." And then you could
erase the "d" of "ford" and place a "k" in there for spell fork. And then
convert the Ink to text.

Ink on a Tablet PC is much more advanced, much more flexible and much more
natural than what is created on a writing pad. I believe what the OneNote
creators went for was an optimal user experience vs. a "simulation" of
handwriting.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

 

[EMRhelp.org]

Creation of "writing" on a pad is that of an overall graphic, cannot be
edited, is unsearchable and quite frankly inferior both in results and user
experience to the digital recognition of the Tablet PC mechanism.

EverNote captures digital INK from Wacom tablets on desktop PCs _and_
supports recognition of this INK. The ink is also searchable.

Their category stamping of individual notes is also intuitive, fast and
powerful.

 

[Chris H.]

I haven't seen your post yet on your OneNote sales claims. Did I miss it,
or have not you posted yet?
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

 

[EMRhelp.org]

Unpublished.
Do you have evidence to show robust Sales of OneNote ?

 

[Chris H.]

I have said nothing about sales, while you have posted things like, "There
is no way Microsoft is happy with OneNote sales" . . . "OneNote, in it's
first iteration, was not as successful as it should have been - sales
show that" . . . "But considering the sluggish sales of OneNote, that is
probably going to be a long ways off."

Now you tell me what you're basing your statements on is "Unpublished"?
That's real good for someone who seems bent on bashing OneNote and
attempting to promote a different program in each message.

Please post your source of information, or public admit your incorrect
statements are baseless.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -



wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

 

[EMRhelp.org]

Now you tell me what you're basing your statements on is "Unpublished"?
That's real good for someone who seems bent on bashing OneNote and
attempting to promote a different program in each message. <<<<

Untrue. Read ALL my posts.
OneNote needs a going over if it's going to do well. Pointing out
other similar competing products' strengths will help OneNote.
Informing people of rather large holes in the product help them make
decisions about which products to purchase.

If you think OneNote's sales are robust you are mistaken. It doesnt
take a rocket scientist to know that. Disputing it is rather
pointless. I'd love to have hard numbers. I do not.

 

[Chris H.]

In other words, you have no hard numbers (or any numbers at all) so you're
posting only what you "think" to be the case, selecting to post negative
opinions instead of being silent where you have no corroborative
information.

You might as well post about the robust OneNote sales. Since there are
factually sales, and many Tablet PC OEMs include OneNote (full version,
licensed) on each Tablet PC, there are certainly more positives that what
you're portraying with your no-data negative information.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

 

[EMRhelp.org]

""many Tablet PC OEMs include OneNote (full version, licensed) on each
Tablet PC""

And after that, no one is purchasing OneNote. OEM sales "dont really
count".

Why be so ultra defensive regarding OneNote ? If the sales were so
robust you could just laugh.

Thou dost protesth too much.

 

[Chris H.]

No, I'm not protesting too much. What I would like is for you to tell the
truth according to published sales figures or other documented information.
If you have none, then I can only saying you are not telling the truth by
your statements without fact.

You know what that makes you?
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

And after that, no one is purchasing OneNote.

I have no interest in arguing this point with you, but you have already
admitted that you have no sales figures so what you're claiming above is
nothing more than your opinion.

If it's really important to you to believe that OneNote is some kind of
failure then that's your prerogative, but for you to put forth your
opinion as if it were fact, and furthermore to claim to know how Microsoft
feels about OneNote sales seems a little pretentious.

Naturally we all welcome feedback on the product and suggestions for
improvement. I can assure you that the development team's priorities for
new features are largely set by the feedback they receive from users (not
only in this forum, but this forum does contribute).

--
-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP-OneNote/Outlook
Operations Coordinator
Stockholm/KSG - Honolulu
Microsoft OneNote FAQ:
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr/computers/onenotefaq.htm

 

[Taha]

Hello Chris and Ben....

I completely agree with McAkins on the issue that Onenote should be as
featureful on the Desktop/laptop as the tablet PC...

I also do understand your point with regards to Digital Ink being only
available on Windows XP tablet PC edition for "marketing reasons".

But the way I see it, Office 2003 Professional somehow comes with some form
of Digital Ink which I can use as a form of input. My question is, why must
onenote be forced to use the Windows XP tablet PC. Better yet, why does
Microsoft Office 2003 on the desktop have ink in the first place if ink is
supposed to be reserved for Windows Tablet PC users only as with onenote.

On another note, I am currently running windows XP table pc Developers
edition on my desktop and as far as I am concerned, EVEN my MOUSE seems to
have Enough resolution for me to draw ink on my Onenote 2003 application and
have the words correctly converted to text.

I'd really like to be able to use onenote and integrate it into my whole
workflow without having to buy a performance hindered tablet PC or having to
switch to another application.

Sincerely,

Taha

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

On another note, I am currently running windows XP table pc Developers
edition on my desktop and as far as I am concerned, EVEN my MOUSE seems
to
have Enough resolution for me to draw ink on my Onenote 2003 application
and
have the words correctly converted to text.

Aloha Taha,

I'm glad to hear that it is working well for you. The fact is, however.
that the capture rate on a mouse is far less than that of a Tablet PC
digitizer and so for most people they will find that the results are not
nearly as good.

Aside from the fact that a mouse is a rather cumbersome drawing/writing
implement; especially as compared to a pen/stylus.

Ultimately it's going to require adding digital ink support to the OS
which is not up to the OneNote team.

--
-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP-OneNote/Outlook
Operations Coordinator
Stockholm/KSG - Honolulu
Microsoft OneNote FAQ:
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr/computers/onenotefaq.htm

 

[Chris H.]

Office 2003 "ink" is not digital - it is analog. Using the SDK gives you
the emulation of the Tablet PC Ink engine, but at the mouse sampling rate.
It still not sampling at the 130+ of the recognizers on Tablet PCs,
therefore your results will not be as clean in appearance nor as accurate as
that of a Tablet PC. The SDK is primarily the way Tablet applications are
developed on desktops, however the major developers are using the expensive
digital screens, too.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert

Expert Zone -

 

[Chris_Pratley \(MS\)]

Dear EMRHelp,

We're quite happy with the sales of OneNote.

Regards,
Chris Pratley (MS)

 

[Taha]

Hello Ben,

The only reason why I mentioned the fact that my mouse seems to work well
with Onenote/Windows XP tablet PC is to emphasize the fact that a Wacom will
do Just fine!....

In fact, just a few hours ago, my little cousin was practising writing on my
Desktop using onenote and a noname tablet and he seemed pretty happy about
the fact that it was working.

You are correct that this decision is not in the hands of the One note team
and its a shame that its up to the OS team who I know, will never do it
because the only selling point on a tablet PC is Digital INK. ...

I guess I ma just gonna have to live on with it... Whats even worse is that
windows XP tablet PC Developers edition is HORRIBLE for use as a regular
OS... it dies down a lot faster than the Windows XP pro and I would hate to
have to format every month as opposed to the regular 3 months.

Thanks,

Sincerely,

Taha

 

[Taha]

Please see replies below....

Office 2003 "ink" is not digital - it is analog. Using the SDK gives you
the emulation of the Tablet PC Ink engine, but at the mouse sampling rate.

Office 2003 Ink is analog???? Now what in the world is that supposed to mean
... SDK ??? where in the world did an SDK pop up here? I was talking about
the office ink that comes as an install option and how that ink API could
have been used in Onenote (even though its a lot less capable)

It still not sampling at the 130+ of the recognizers on Tablet PCs,
therefore your results will not be as clean in appearance nor as accurate as
that of a Tablet PC. The SDK is primarily the way Tablet applications are
developed on desktops, however the major developers are using the expensive
digital screens, too.

I use the Windows XP Tablet PC OS on my desktop and hence, I am not running
any emulated or downgraded version of the Tablet OS... I am running the full
fleged ink engine. And it works quite nicely with my mouse.

Sincerely,

Taha

 

[Chris H.]

Are you a developer? If so, you would know about the Tablet SDK.

Without the digital recognizers on a Tablet PC, you are sampling Ink at the
mouse rate (40 per second or below) and not the digital Tablet speed of 130
or above. The recognition and experience is not the same, nor nearly as
complete on analog instead of digital.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

 

[Taha]

Yeah I have used the Tablet SDK before... but I now use the Full tablet OS
for all my work as opposed to just the Tablet SDk...

My only confusion was about why you had mentioned the SDK when we were
dicussing Office Ink and its use in onenote ... Did i miss something ?

Sincerely,

Taha.