2004 vs 2008

[GeorgeCarvill]

Version: 2004
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: intel
Email Client: pop

In the last week I have moved from Windows XP / Outlook to MacBookPro / Entourage 2004. I sorely miss the Outlook 2003 functionality. I am also less than thrilled by the Entourage crashes that happen two or three times an hour, albeit with no apparent loss of data.

I didn't like the idea of MS Office 2008's new GUI and file formats, etc. But... now I am wondering.

Any opinions out there on the stability/quality/functionality of 2008 vs 2004?

 

[Ed Kimball]

Version: 2004
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: intel
Email Client: pop

In the last week I have moved from Windows XP / Outlook to MacBookPro /
Entourage 2004. I sorely miss the Outlook 2003 functionality. I am also less
than thrilled by the Entourage crashes that happen two or three times an hour,
albeit with no apparent loss of data.

I didn't like the idea of MS Office 2008's new GUI and file formats, etc.
But... now I am wondering.

Any opinions out there on the stability/quality/functionality of 2008 vs 2004?

George,

FWIW I'm using E2004 on a MacBook Pro for about a year, and it seems to
crash about once a month, not 2-3 times an hour, for me. Here are some
things to try if you prefer not to upgrade:

Make sure Leopard is updated to version 10.5.2. You can use use Software
Update... under the Apple menu or you can download the Combo Update from
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/macosx_updates/
Diane recommends the Combo Update as being more reliable than Software
Update... I suspect she's right, even though I've generally had no trouble
with Software Update.

Make sure that Entourage is updated to version 11.4.0. You can use the Check
for Updates command under the Help menu, or you can get the latest update
(called 11.4.1, but it doesn't change the version number of Entourage) from
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.mspx
and click on Office 2004 and then the link to the update for 11.4.1.

If you are running the latest versions of OS X and E2004, I would then use
Disk Utility to repair any permissions. If that still doesn't fix the
problem, I would then run Disk Utility from my Install or Restore disk to
Repair the Disk.
Here's a page that can help give some guidance:
http://kb.wisc.edu/helpdesk/page.php?id=3810
Although it displays instructions for OS X 10.4, I believe they will work on
10.5 as well.

Good luck.

 

[Diane Ross]

In the last week I have moved from Windows XP / Outlook to MacBookPro /
Entourage 2004. I sorely miss the Outlook 2003 functionality. I am also less
than thrilled by the Entourage crashes that happen two or three times an hour,
albeit with no apparent loss of data.

In addition to Ed's comments, Entourage rarely crashes for me...(long time
user of both 2004 and 2008). Since this is not normal behavior, you need to
troubleshoot and solve this. As to features.... You might find that you
would be happier running Outlook 2003 using BootCamp.

You would need to use BootCamp, VMware Fusion, or Parallels Desktop.

<http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/> click on the "Windows on a Mac"

<http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.24/24.02/VirtualizationBenchmar
k/>

Any opinions out there on the stability/quality/functionality of 2008 vs 2004?

I suspect your problems are your base OS files. Since you are a new User,
you need to do a crash course (pun intended) learning the Mac.

Have you upgraded to 10.5.2? Have you applied the Combo updater to see if
that helps? Have you tested in a new User to see if your current User's
folder has problems?

Mac OS X 10.5.2 Combo Update

<http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx1052comboupdate.html>

Cheers and Welcome to Mac! I have a few tips and links posted to help new
users here:

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/new2mac/index.html>

 

[GeorgeCarvill]

Ed,

Thanks for your suggestions. I am getting back to this problem. I still have it even after what you will find below.

I also failed to mention that 90 percent of the crashes happen when the view is changing from one e-mail to another and usually when the new e-mail is heavily formatted.

For example, first thing in the morning I go through my new mail using the arrow keys and the delete key, deleting what I don't want and skipping what I do. So I will either up-arrow to get to the next or delete the one I am viewing. Either should then show me the next e-mail. But about one time in three Entourage crashes.

At first I thought it was something to do with the e-mails I imported from Outlook. But that's not the case, or not exclusively the case as it happens with new messages daily.

Make sure Leopard is updated to version 10.5.2.
--> Leopard 10.5.2 came on the laptop when I bought it earlier this month.

Make sure that Entourage is updated to version 11.4.0. You can use the Check for Updates command under the Help menu, or you can get the latest update (called 11.4.1, but it doesn't change the version number of Entourage) from <http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.mspx>
and click on Office 2004 and then the link to the update for 11.4.1.
--> I took this suggestion, downloaded and installed the update

If you are running the latest versions of OS X and E2004, I would then use
Disk Utility to repair any permissions.
--> I don't know how to do this.

If that still doesn't fix the problem, I would then run Disk Utility from my Install or Restore disk to Repair the Disk.
--> I don't know how to do that either, but I will look at the page.

However, I find it surprising that a disk problem would manifest only in Entourage. I am not having any other problems.

 

[Diane Ross]

I also failed to mention that 90 percent of the crashes happen when the view
is changing from one e-mail to another and usually when the new e-mail is
heavily formatted.

Could you either Forward as Attachment a couple of your messages that are
causing the crashes, or put in folder and Archive (zip) if the following
does not help.

File --> Compress

Send me an email:

Make sure Leopard is updated to version 10.5.2.
--> Leopard 10.5.2 came on the laptop when I bought it earlier this month.

I know you have 10.5.2, but you need to download and apply the combo
updater. Doing so overwrites potentially problem-causing files. Several
users have reported this fixed some odd problems they were having with
Entourage. Combo updaters will install on the same version as they¹re
applying‹no need to roll back or do a clean install.

Leopard:

Mac OS X 10.5.2 Combo Update (This update delivers several improvements for
both PowerPC- and Intel-based Macs

If you are running the latest versions of OS X and E2004, I would then use
Disk Utility to repair any permissions.
--> I don't know how to do this.

Using Repair Permissions after installing MS Office or any application that
uses an installer is often advised. To use Repair Permissions:

1. Open Disk Utility in your Applications/Utility folder.
2. Click on the First Aid tab and select Repair Permissions
3. Click on the icon for your boot volume.
4. Click the repair permissions button.

Don't run from CD. Updates contain a newer versions of the application's
permissions.

If that still doesn't fix the problem, I would then run Disk Utility from my
Install or Restore disk to Repair the Disk.
--> I don't know how to do that either, but I will look at the page.

In the same application where you ran Repair Permissions, select Repair
Disk. If you are booted from that disk it will be grayed out. Use Verify. If
it's not OK, you will need to boot from your Install CD or another boot
volume to run repair.

 

[GeorgeCarvill]

OK, I'll try the combo update. I figured since my machine was new I was all set.

As for the files, if this continues, I'll send you some. But I don't see any pattern. In case I wasn't clear, after Entouage restarts it has no problem with the file it crashed on.

 

[Diane Ross]

As for the files, if this continues, I'll send you some. But I don't see any
pattern. In case I wasn't clear, after Entouage restarts it has no problem
with the file it crashed on.

Be sure to clear your font caches.

Tools to clean font caches:
Font Finagler
TinkerTool System
Tiger Cache Cleaner or Leopard Cache Cleaner
Linotype FontExplorer X

You'll find links here:

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/troubleshoot/bad_font.html>

 

[GeorgeCarvill]

The rebuild of my Mac has made things much, much better. Entourage is only crashing two or three times a day instead of two or three times an hour.

I have also noticed a pattern: The crashes seem to happen when I delete a message and the next message that gets displayed is very complicated. Note that after I restart I can usually click on the "bad" message and it displays. It's only after deleting the message below it using the delete key, or the message above it using the Nuke tool.

I will send you a copy of the "bad" message.

 

[Diane Ross]

The rebuild of my Mac has made things much, much better. Entourage is only
crashing two or three times a day instead of two or three times an hour.

I have also noticed a pattern: The crashes seem to happen when I delete a
message and the next message that gets displayed is very complicated. Note
that after I restart I can usually click on the "bad" message and it displays.
It's only after deleting the message below it using the delete key, or the
message above it using the Nuke tool.

I will send you a copy of the "bad" message.

I'll look for the message, but I'm still very suspicious of your base setup.
This is just not typical or acceptable behavior. I understand that it is a
new computer, but since you are a new Mac users it's hard to know what might
have resulted from your inexperience. Even experienced Mac users can muck up
things.

 

[GeorgeCarvill]

Well, what should I look at to investigage your suspicions?

 

[Diane Ross]

Well, what should I look at to investigage your suspicions?

Testing in a new User will often tell you if it's system problems or it's
your Identity.

Go to System Preferences --> Create a New User in Accounts. Switch to the
New User by logging out/in or use Fast User Switching. Test Office there.

If the problems exist in a new User, then most likely it's your system
files. This can sometimes be fixed with the Combo updater, but often it
takes an "Archive & Install" or an "Erase & Install".

An "Erase & Install" would require you to have a backup drive for your
personal data. In any case, I would recommend having a backup drive if you
data is important.

Firewire drives start around $100 for a 250 GB drive. This is the last drive
I purchased. Comes with cables. I'm sure others can recommend other drives
that are good buys and that are reliable.

Seagate 250 GB Firewire external in case with cables. $99.99

<http://www.egoodz.com/product.asp?pf_id=3506UEPSILST250>

I would try to buy a drive that is equal or larger than your current
computer.

 

[GeorgeCarvill]

I did an erase and install last week. I'll try the new user at some point. But frankly, I suspect the real problem is that Entourage just sometimes gets confused when it is asked to do too many things at once, such as permanently delete one file, switch to another and display it and it happens to be a very complicated file.

 

[GeorgeCarvill]

OK, I'm about ready to try the new user thing. But I am confused about one part.

That will be a new user for the computer, not just a new user for Entourage. Since the problems are with e-mail -- especially e-mail already received -- how do I get the "new user" to be able to run the old user's e-mail?

 

[Diane Ross]

OK, I'm about ready to try the new user thing. But I am confused about one
part.

That will be a new user for the computer, not just a new user for Entourage.
Since the problems are with e-mail -- especially e-mail already received --
how do I get the "new user" to be able to run the old user's e-mail?

You first want to test in a blank Identity. Then when you know Entourage
opens and can send & receive. (you will only need to enter one account for
testing) you can bring over your Identity.

In your current Identity, drag the Main Identity to Shared folder.

Your Hard Drive/Users/Shared

Switch to the new User

Drag the Identity from Shared (it copies it so no worries with any
additional corruption)

It will overwrite any Main Identity you had for testing. You can rename the
test Main if you wish.

Test

After testing don't forget to drag your Main Identity from Shared back to
your Documents folder. If you don't Entourage will create a new blank one
and give you a heart attack.

Note: SP1 was released today. It contains almost 50 improvements for
Entourage.