Cannot send "clean" HTML to MS Outlook on PC

K

Kenneth Graham

Here's a situation for which I've been unable to find a decent solution.

Trying to send an HTML message from Entourage on a Mac to be viewable on
both Macs and MS Outlook on a PC.

The original message is created in an HTML editor. The HTML code is "clean"
and uses styles so that it can serve as an easy-to-use template for
subsequent messages utilizing the same format.

The trick to sending is to use Tools:Accounts:Options to create an
additional header "context-type:text/html." I can then cut and paste the
HTML code text into the body of the message and send as HTML e-mail without
setting the Entourage Format to HTML. This works great on all Mac e-mail
clients I've encountered, but it does NOT work on a PC running MS Outlook!
For some unfortunate reason, MS Outlook on the PC ignores the text/html
header and just displays the plain text.

If I try to send the message as Format:HTML then Entourage applies all its
own HTML formatting code. Same thing happens if message is sent from Word
using File:Send to: Mail Recipient (as HTML).

I want to send the "clean" HTML code, i.e. matching a web page, so its
readable on a Mac or a PC.

Paul Berkowitz has created some wonderful AppleScripts for Entourage to
facilitate the sending of complex HTML messages, but as best I can discover,
none of these will send the "clean" HTML code; they all let Entourage create
its own version of the HTML.

Is there any way for force Entourage to send HTML code which is readable
using MS Outlook on a PC, or must I utilize another program for sending this
mail? If so, any suggestions?
 
A

Adam Bailey

Kenneth Graham said:
Paul Berkowitz has created some wonderful AppleScripts for Entourage to
facilitate the sending of complex HTML messages, but as best I can discover,
none of these will send the "clean" HTML code; they all let Entourage create
its own version of the HTML.
Click to expand...

As Entourage is incapable of creating complex HTML, I'm not sure this
is true. But I have no first-hand experience with Paul's HTML
AppleScripts. He'll likely jump in if he needs to.
Is there any way for force Entourage to send HTML code which is readable
using MS Outlook on a PC
Click to expand...

Open up your HTML document in Microsoft Word and choose File > Send To
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

Paul Berkowitz has created some wonderful AppleScripts for Entourage to
facilitate the sending of complex HTML messages, but as best I can discover,
none of these will send the "clean" HTML code; they all let Entourage create
its own version of the HTML.
Click to expand...

I actually know next to nothing about HTML, so my script doesn't fuss with
HTML - I wouldn't be able to. But Rob Buckley has recently made a revision
of the script with a lot more sophistication - precisely for the purposes
you seek. It has an immensely long name which I can never remember: "Send
Complex HTML with inline files 2004". You'll find it at

MacScripter.net <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

It's meant to be extremely good.
Is there any way for force Entourage to send HTML code which is readable
using MS Outlook on a PC, or must I utilize another program for sending this
mail? If so, any suggestions?
Click to expand...

As Adam says (but didn't mention this works only in Office 2004), you can do
it in Word 2004. I know that Word's HTML is a very far cry from "clean HTML
code" itself, so you may well prefer Rob's script.


--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.
 
A

Adam Bailey

Paul Berkowitz said:
On 8/3/04 11:51 AM, in article BD355703.1281%[email protected], "Kenneth


As Adam says (but didn't mention this works only in Office 2004), you can do
it in Word 2004. I know that Word's HTML is a very far cry from "clean HTML
code" itself, so you may well prefer Rob's script.
Click to expand...

I just tried it using a simple page I authored. Word /does/ change some of
the HTML, but not dramatically -- and mainly just to add in the styles that
I was referencing externally.
 
K

Kenneth R. Graham

Is there any way for force Entourage to send HTML code which is readable
using MS Outlook on a PC
Click to expand...

Open up your HTML document in Microsoft Word and choose File > Send To
Mail Recipient (as HTML).
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

Yes, this sort of works, but in doing so all Word does is send the HTML
to Entourage, which then adds its own formatting code, rather than just
sending the original "clean" HTML code.

To repeat, the objective is to take pure HTML code and send it via
e-mail WITHOUT modifications so that it can be read in MS Outlook on a
PC. It can be done from Mac to Mac, but so far not to a PC.
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

Open up your HTML document in Microsoft Word and choose File > Send To
Click to expand...

Yes, this sort of works, but in doing so all Word does is send the HTML
to Entourage, which then adds its own formatting code, rather than just
sending the original "clean" HTML code.

To repeat, the objective is to take pure HTML code and send it via
e-mail WITHOUT modifications so that it can be read in MS Outlook on a
PC. It can be done from Mac to Mac, but so far not to a PC.[/QUOTE]

Yes it can. I already told you that Rob Buckley's script will do that for
you.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.
 
K

Ken Graham

Yes it can. I already told you that Rob Buckley's script will do that for
you.
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul, but unfortunately my testing confirms that this excellent
script will NOT do what I want.

Yes, it does take pure text and HTML code from a saved file and create a
complex message which can be read on a PC.

But NO, it does NOT maintain the "clean" HTML code I want to send.
Instead it allows Entourage to create its own HTML version of the code!
I did NOT view the page before sending, as warned in the read me file,
yet my code was NOT transmitted without modifications.

I tried both methods, but as expected they sent identical messages.

Perhaps Adam can confirm whether my goal is indeed possible to
accomplish with Entourage.
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

Thanks Paul, but unfortunately my testing confirms that this excellent
script will NOT do what I want.

Yes, it does take pure text and HTML code from a saved file and create a
complex message which can be read on a PC.

But NO, it does NOT maintain the "clean" HTML code I want to send.
Instead it allows Entourage to create its own HTML version of the code!
I did NOT view the page before sending, as warned in the read me file,
yet my code was NOT transmitted without modifications.

I tried both methods, but as expected they sent identical messages.

Perhaps Adam can confirm whether my goal is indeed possible to
accomplish with Entourage.
Click to expand...

If you don't want to actually _display_ it in an email client but just
preserve its purity for viewing in a browser (where HTML was designed for),
you'll need to send your HTML pages as attachments then and let the
recipient open them in a browser. Since Entourage does not claim to be able
to let you compose complex HTML, the scripts are tricks that try to get
around the restriction by triggering the HTML rendering engine. You can
hardly expect an application that is not designed to send complex HTML at
all to be able to send it perfectly, by tricks. If perfection matters, send
it as an attachment - stuffed if need be - or use an application designed
to compose complex HTML. On the Mac, I believe that Netscape does so, so
quite possibly all flavors of Mozilla do so. Use the tool for the job.
Entourage isn't it.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.
 
K

Ken Graham

Paul Berkowitz said:
If you don't want to actually _display_ it in an email client but just
preserve its purity for viewing in a browser (where HTML was designed for),
you'll need to send your HTML pages as attachments then and let the
recipient open them in a browser. Since Entourage does not claim to be able
to let you compose complex HTML, the scripts are tricks that try to get
around the restriction by triggering the HTML rendering engine. You can
hardly expect an application that is not designed to send complex HTML at
all to be able to send it perfectly, by tricks. If perfection matters, send
it as an attachment - stuffed if need be - or use an application designed
to compose complex HTML. On the Mac, I believe that Netscape does so, so
quite possibly all flavors of Mozilla do so. Use the tool for the job.
Entourage isn't it.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ, and I'm not trying to knock Entourage. In fact, the
primary culprit appears to be MS Outlook on the PC.

My objective was merely to send HTML e-mail which could be viewed as
such. I'm not interested in sending HTML files to be viewed by a browser
or any other app; I want them to be viewed as HTML e-mail.

I want to create these e-mail messages in a tool which is better at
creating HTML. I agree that Entourage is NOT the right tool for this
job; which is why I create the HTML elsewhere. I'm not knocking
Entourage as I understand its limitations.

However, I would like to be able to use Entourage to send e-mail and am
frustrated by what I consider an important shortcoming. If I have
acceptable HTML code, I would like to be able to send it with the
text/html header WITHOUT having Entourage re-format my code. I'd also
like the capability to send complex messages of plain text and HTML; but
again I'd like to be able to tell Entourage exactly what I want to send
in each part and have it send it without modifications.

In other words, I'm not looking for an app "designed to compose complex
HTML," but rather one to merely transmit it when requested.

To get back to the start of this thread, I was able to transmit the HTML
code UNMODIFIED using Entourage by merely adding the additional header
content-type:text/html. Moreover, the code is correctly displayed when
received on a Mac with Entourage, or other mail clients. The PROBLEM is
that MS Outlook on a PC is NOT able to display this message as HTML.
That's the real source of my frustration/problem! To get around this,
I'm merely seeking possible ways to modify the default header added by
Entourage which creates the problem on the PC.
 
M

mpdentourage11

I beg to differ, and I'm not trying to knock Entourage. In fact, the
primary culprit appears to be MS Outlook on the PC.

My objective was merely to send HTML e-mail which could be viewed as
such. I'm not interested in sending HTML files to be viewed by a browser
or any other app; I want them to be viewed as HTML e-mail.

I want to create these e-mail messages in a tool which is better at
creating HTML. I agree that Entourage is NOT the right tool for this
job; which is why I create the HTML elsewhere. I'm not knocking
Entourage as I understand its limitations.

However, I would like to be able to use Entourage to send e-mail and am
frustrated by what I consider an important shortcoming. If I have
acceptable HTML code, I would like to be able to send it with the
text/html header WITHOUT having Entourage re-format my code. I'd also
like the capability to send complex messages of plain text and HTML; but
again I'd like to be able to tell Entourage exactly what I want to send
in each part and have it send it without modifications.

In other words, I'm not looking for an app "designed to compose complex
HTML," but rather one to merely transmit it when requested.

To get back to the start of this thread, I was able to transmit the HTML
code UNMODIFIED using Entourage by merely adding the additional header
content-type:text/html. Moreover, the code is correctly displayed when
received on a Mac with Entourage, or other mail clients. The PROBLEM is
that MS Outlook on a PC is NOT able to display this message as HTML.
That's the real source of my frustration/problem! To get around this,
I'm merely seeking possible ways to modify the default header added by
Entourage which creates the problem on the PC.
Click to expand...

I am very sorry but seems like there is no solution in this case. As long as
you use additional header, there will be two "Content-Type" headers in an
e-mail. One that Entourage put automatically and the other you created as
additional header. So the headers of the email will be like this (please
correct me if I am wrong),

--------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received: from dns02.mail.yahoo.co.jp (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx)
by xxx.mail.xxx.yahoo.co.jp with SMTP; Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:54:09 +0900
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:54:08 +0900
Subject: xxxxxx
From: xxxxx <[email protected]>
To: xxxxxx <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <BD3913D0.3202%[email protected]>
content-type: text/html; <--- Additional header
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; <--- Entourage generated
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
--------------------------------------------------------

The order of these "Content-Type" headers is the key. As you see,
content-type: text/html comes before the content-type: text/plain.

If there are multiple "content-type" headers in one e-mail, Windows Outlook
and Outlook Express always render e-mail by seeing the last "Content-Type"
and Apple Mail, Entourage, and Mac/Windows Thunderbird see the first
"Content-Type". Your problem stems from here.

I guess there is no way to control the order in Entourage and even if there
is a way, it won't solve your problem as long as there are two
"content-type" headers. (If you could make text/html header comes last and
text/plain comes first, the email will be viewable with Win Outlook/Outlook
Express but now won't be viewable with Entourage/Apple Mail/Thunderbird. I
tested this with telnet.)

So seems to me that there is no solution that makes you happy completely as
long as you use additional header.

I am afraid to say but I recommend to use telnet if you like to send "clean"
HTML.

Regards,

iyastak
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

I guess there is no way to control the order in Entourage and even if there
is a way, it won't solve your problem as long as there are two
"content-type" headers. (If you could make text/html header comes last and
text/plain comes first, the email will be viewable with Win Outlook/Outlook
Express but now won't be viewable with Entourage/Apple Mail/Thunderbird. I
tested this with telnet.)
Click to expand...

Here's a way. Write a script that gets the source of the message, parse it
to find "Content-type:" (this being Entourage it uses uppercase "C" and
lowercase "t", remove the line that has the text/plain in it, put it back
together and make a new outgoing message with the modified source, send it,
and delete the original draft. That will do it.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.
 
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