Entourage Hangs

S

sushistar

I have done an advanced rebuild of the database, regular rebuild, run
Norton and done a virus check. I have searched all of the problems on
Mactopia, removed and reinstalled office, increased the memory
requirements and still the damn thing HANGS!

Running Mac os 9.2 384MB powerbook Lombard. This has happend to me
before and is totally frustrating. I don't really trust any of the
shop guys because they usually just run disk first aid or Norton.

I want to recover my messages but if you place only the messages into
a new Entourage I have found that the database is critical to get the
messages or is there a way to import the old messages?

HELP!
 
B

Beth Rosengard

Hi Sushistar,

I take it you're using Entourage 2001. A few questions:

At what point does Entourage hang? Do you get an error message? If so,
what?

Have you rebuilt your *desktop*?

When you removed Office 2001, did you use the Remove Office tool from
Mactopia.com (not the out-of-date remover on the CD)?

When you increased Entourage's memory, was it the Preferred memory? And did
you leave the Minimum memory at the default?

Do you have *at least* the Office 2001 Service Release 1 installed, not to
speak of the other updaters?

When you speak of recovering your messages, do you mean you have a backup of
your Main Identity, your entire Microsoft User Data (MUD) folder or what?

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/WordMac/index.html>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html>
 
S

sushistar

Yes Entourage 2001

At start up. I would see the "welcome to " new mail in the in box but
cannot read anything. Mouse moves but not able to access any of the
pull down menus nor folders. Then after rebuild etc. I did manage to
see that the startup script went further but a Red coloured dialogue
box appeared but no error message was displayed in the box. The radio
button was drawn but again no information was displayed. I could not
access the button or any other functions. The welcome sound did play.

Desktop rebuild after rebuild database and advanced rebuild.
Addittionally rebuild desktop after remove office as well as after
reinstall.

Used teh out of date remove tool from the CD, I guess. What is the
release version of the newer remove tool so that I can confirm which
one I have?

Increased both base and preferred.

executed the rebuild when the original Entourage was installed and the
SR1 update had been done. Then reinstalled and performed the SR1
update. Tried to do the other update but ran into 2 error messges yet
the update went through (don't believe that that was the problem
because the hang still occured before the second combination Hotmail
etc. update was attempted)

My backup is quite old and I probably could recover it but it is the
more recent group of files that I am interested in.

The 2 main files that appear to still have information are the
database and the messages. I attempted to use the messages after the
reinstall and merely replaced the file but without the database the
messages won't be displayed.

I have experienced similar intermittent failures of entourage, not
very happy!

Peter
 
B

Beth Rosengard

Hi Peter,

See below.

Yes Entourage 2001

At start up. I would see the "welcome to " new mail in the in box but
cannot read anything. Mouse moves but not able to access any of the
pull down menus nor folders. Then after rebuild etc. I did manage to
see that the startup script went further but a Red coloured dialogue
box appeared but no error message was displayed in the box. The radio
button was drawn but again no information was displayed. I could not
access the button or any other functions. The welcome sound did play.
Desktop rebuild after rebuild database and advanced rebuild.
Addittionally rebuild desktop after remove office as well as after
reinstall.

Used teh out of date remove tool from the CD, I guess. What is the
release version of the newer remove tool so that I can confirm which
one I have?

If you used the removal tool from the CD, it doesn't matter what the version
number is: It's out-of-date, pure and simple. You need to download the
current removal tool at
<http://www.microsoft.com/mac/download/office2001/RemoveOffice.asp> and
repeat the removal/reinstall process. Follow these steps:

-- If these files are important to you, back them up on external media for
later reinstallation:

Normal Template: Applications>Microsoft Office 2001>Templates
My Templates (your custom templates): same as above
Custom Dictionary: System Folder>Preferences>Microsoft
AutoCorrect List (Office ACL English): same as above

-- Download the Office 2001 Remover from
<http://www.microsoft.com/mac/download/office2001/RemoveOffice.asp>. DO NOT
use the remover from the Office 2001 CD; it is not up-to-date.

-- With all Office applications closed, run it. That searches your hard
disk, and particularly your System folder, to make sure everything is
removed.

-- Rebuild the desktop.

-- Reinstall Office 2001 from the CD.

-- Start each Office 2001 application once to cause it to initialize itself.

-- Download and install the following updaters from Mactopia.com
(<http://www.microsoft.com/mac/download/default.asp#Office2001>) in this
order:

* Microsoft Office 2001 Service Release 1
* Microsoft Word 2001 Security Update: Macro Vulnerability
* Microsoft PowerPoint/Excel 2001 Macro Security Update
* Entourage 2001 - Hotmail Updater (even if you don¹t use Hotmail)
* Microsoft Office 2001 SSL Security Updater

-- Rebuild the desktop.

NOTE: If you're getting error messages during this process, as you note
below, something is wrong, even if the updates appear to go through.
Increased both base and preferred.

Not good. When you do the removal/reinstall above, you should be back at
the default memory settings. If, after the successful reinstall, Entourage
is still crashing, increase the Preferred memory only (try 20000K). Always
leave Minimum memory (for any program) at the default *unless* the
manufacturer of the software recommends increasing it. The explanation is a
long one but the basic reason is that Minimum memory takes up RAM that is
then unavailable to any other program, whether the memory is being used or
not. Preferred memory, on the other hand, *is* available to other programs
when it's not needed.

If you increased Minimum memory for other applications, that could be adding
to your problems. Take them all back to their defaults.
executed the rebuild when the original Entourage was installed and the
SR1 update had been done. Then reinstalled and performed the SR1
update. Tried to do the other update but ran into 2 error messges yet
the update went through (don't believe that that was the problem
because the hang still occured before the second combination Hotmail
etc. update was attempted)

As I said above, error messages during the removal/reinstall should not be
ignored. Let's see if you can get through the reinstall without seeing any,
once you've done the proper removal first.

Be sure you download the correct updaters. Assuming you have the full
Office 2001, be sure you don't download the updaters for the Special Edition
(SE) by mistake.
My backup is quite old and I probably could recover it but it is the
more recent group of files that I am interested in.

The 2 main files that appear to still have information are the
database and the messages. I attempted to use the messages after the
reinstall and merely replaced the file but without the database the
messages won't be displayed.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you didn't make a backup, what files
are you using to replace other files. And, no, nothing will work without a
Database file, but there has to be one there.

Anyway, before doing the removal and after closing Entourage, open your MUD
folder and rename your Main Identity to something else (say, Previous
Identity) and don't open Entourage again until after the removal/reinstall.
I want Entourage to open with a new, blank identity when the reinstall is
completed. Don't worry, you can switch identities to get back to Previous
Identity later. I want to see if Entourage works properly with the new Main
Identity. If it does, it may indicate corruption in your Previous Identity
but post back here with the results of the removal/reinstall before trying
to switch identities. If you're still getting hangs, then we'll need to
look elsewhere altogether, but we can't make that determination until we're
sure you have a good install.

Hope this helps!!
 
B

Beth Rosengard

Hi Peter,

For the time being, don't try to replace the new files with the old!
Instead, switch identities (File> Switch Identity) to open the old,
apparently corrupt identity. As soon as it's open, close Entourage and try
to do an Advanced Rebuild (hold down the Option key while opening Entourage
and choose Advanced).

If the Rebuild completes successfully, open Entourage and see what you've
got. If everything is okay, great. If not, but you're able to at least
open Entourage and see your old mail folders, try this import method.

Drag all folders (and subfolders separately) to your desktop where they will
become MBOX files. Switch identities to the new identity, and start
dragging the folders and subfolders, one by one, into the folder list. This
may be tedious but I would recommending testing Entourage's functions after
each one or two MBOX imports. If it's a corrupt message that's causing all
the problems, this is the way to isolate it. If it becomes clear that a
particular folder holds a corrupt message, post back and we'll work on that.

Also, I would work through the above before trying Bernard's suggestion.
Entouraid seems to work for some people but doesn't necessarily restore all
data.

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/WordMac/index.html>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html>
 
S

sushistar

Beth,

I just checked the size of the database and the messages. The DB is
9.9MB and the messages is 52MB so I think that the problem lies
elsewhere. I cannot tell you precisely under what circumstances
entourage decides to hang but it does, possibly when I have reached an
e-mail level as described above. I am very careful regarding
atachments etc. but I have no idea why or how it winds up getting
corrupted.

I'll give entouraide a shot,; le's cross our fingers otherwise I may
try to find a more stable, more capable e-mail program.

Thanks again for all of your assistance.

Regards,

Peter
 
S

sushistar

Beth,

Further to your e-mail. i tried the entouraid but the image woudn't
mount properly. it did mention that the requirements were for OS X and
I am running 9.2; maybe that is why.

I am seriously thinking about Clairs E-Mailer again because after
searching someof the issues there are just too many people reporting
that they are losing their information in a very similar manner.

Regards,

Peter
 
B

Beth Rosengard

Hi Peter,

Sorry. I didn't realize Entouraid was for OS X only. I've heard people
report that they have been able to recover some mail by opening the database
in a text editor like BBEdit. You might try that.

As for how many people are reporting similar Entourage problems, remember
that only people who have problems post! All of those who are doing fine ­
and they're the vast majority ­ have no need to post.

I myself am using OS 9.1 and Entourage 2001 and I have never lost data
(knock on wood, plastic, metal, etc. :). Are you in OS 9.2.1 by any
chance? If so, upgrade to 9.2.2 which is said to be more stable.

Also, rebuild your desktop once a week and whenever installing new software.
It really helps keep things running smoothly.

Finally, now that you've got things running well, give Entourage another
chance ­ and back up frequently.

Good luck.

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/WordMac/index.html>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html>
 
S

sushistar

Beth,

Thanks again for all of your efforts to recover my data. I am not
sure if I want ot do the Entourage thing again. While I find when it
works it is fine and has better features than a lot of others, having
all of my data get corrupted and no recovery methods leaves me a
little wary. I can't even import the messages back into Outlook
express, Entourage has been a dead end for data; no backwards
compatibility, no export to Outlook, no capacity to share the messages
with other e-mail programs. Very, Very Frustrating.

Anyway, thanks for reading my rant and thanks again for all of your
help.

Peter
 
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