frontpage include performance vs asp include

C

chris

Hello,
I had a web site that used frontpage used to include 3 other pages on every
page of the site for navigational reasons. I noticed that if I ever updated
these pages, it would take frontpage forever to do the update. It would also
timeout and I would have to reapply the save over and over again. Is this
because those include pages were on so many of my other web pages. Why is it
such a big deal to update an include page used throughout a web site.

My question is, since I am using ASP pages, am I better off including them
using asp code for includes? The only reason I didn't do that is because
frontpage does not let you see the included page in the design mode unless
you use frontpage includes. I am stuck between performance and wysiwyg
editing.

Any comments are appreciated
Thanks
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

FP Includes are included when you save the file, whereas SSI includes are included when the page is
requested from the server. If you want FP to manage the hyperlinks and you want to see the include
during design, then you are stuck with FP Includes.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
M

Mike Mueller

Would this be a valid example of the 'FP Include"

default page is 10k, and has 3 includes-
include 1 is 100k
include 2 is 50k
include 3 is 25k

The actual default page would then be on the server as 185k,
and the 3 include pages would also be there for another 175k
If 1 thing was changed on any of the 4 files, when the
default page was loaded it would need to download the 185k

If this was asp included, the default would be the 10k, and
the server would still have the 175k for includes
If 1 thing was changed on any of the 4 files, then only the
changed page would need to be downloaded, as low as 10k.

So it becomes a bandwidth vs file management issue

Mike


: FP Includes are included when you save the file, whereas
SSI includes are included when the page is
: requested from the server. If you want FP to manage the
hyperlinks and you want to see the include
: during design, then you are stuck with FP Includes.
:
: --
: ==============================================
: Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: ==============================================
: If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
: a Service Pack or security update, please contact
: Microsoft Product Support Services:
: http://support.microsoft.com
: If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
: security update, then there is usually no charge for the
call.
: ==============================================
:
: : > Hello,
: > I had a web site that used frontpage used to include 3
other pages on every
: > page of the site for navigational reasons. I noticed
that if I ever updated
: > these pages, it would take frontpage forever to do the
update. It would also
: > timeout and I would have to reapply the save over and
over again. Is this
: > because those include pages were on so many of my other
web pages. Why is it
: > such a big deal to update an include page used
throughout a web site.
: >
: > My question is, since I am using ASP pages, am I better
off including them
: > using asp code for includes? The only reason I didn't do
that is because
: > frontpage does not let you see the included page in the
design mode unless
: > you use frontpage includes. I am stuck between
performance and wysiwyg
: > editing.
: >
: > Any comments are appreciated
: > Thanks
:
:
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

What do you mean by downloaded, the browser would always see a 185K file requested in your example.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
M

Mike Mueller

----lost in thought for a moment----

If the page had already been visited, and was in the local
cache is what I think I was thinking about


: What do you mean by downloaded, the browser would always
see a 185K file requested in your example.
:
: --
: ==============================================
: Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: ==============================================
: If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
: a Service Pack or security update, please contact
: Microsoft Product Support Services:
: http://support.microsoft.com
: If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
: security update, then there is usually no charge for the
call.
: ==============================================
:
: : > Would this be a valid example of the 'FP Include"
: >
: > default page is 10k, and has 3 includes-
: > include 1 is 100k
: > include 2 is 50k
: > include 3 is 25k
: >
: > The actual default page would then be on the server as
185k,
: > and the 3 include pages would also be there for another
175k
: > If 1 thing was changed on any of the 4 files, when the
: > default page was loaded it would need to download the
185k
: >
: > If this was asp included, the default would be the 10k,
and
: > the server would still have the 175k for includes
: > If 1 thing was changed on any of the 4 files, then only
the
: > changed page would need to be downloaded, as low as 10k.
: >
: > So it becomes a bandwidth vs file management issue
: >
: > Mike
: >
: >
: > : > : FP Includes are included when you save the file,
whereas
: > SSI includes are included when the page is
: > : requested from the server. If you want FP to manage
the
: > hyperlinks and you want to see the include
: > : during design, then you are stuck with FP Includes.
: > :
: > : --
: > : ==============================================
: > : Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: > : ==============================================
: > : If you feel your current issue is a results of
installing
: > : a Service Pack or security update, please contact
: > : Microsoft Product Support Services:
: > : http://support.microsoft.com
: > : If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
: > : security update, then there is usually no charge for
the
: > call.
: > : ==============================================
: > :
message
: > :
: > : > Hello,
: > : > I had a web site that used frontpage used to include
3
: > other pages on every
: > : > page of the site for navigational reasons. I noticed
: > that if I ever updated
: > : > these pages, it would take frontpage forever to do
the
: > update. It would also
: > : > timeout and I would have to reapply the save over
and
: > over again. Is this
: > : > because those include pages were on so many of my
other
: > web pages. Why is it
: > : > such a big deal to update an include page used
: > throughout a web site.
: > : >
: > : > My question is, since I am using ASP pages, am I
better
: > off including them
: > : > using asp code for includes? The only reason I
didn't do
: > that is because
: > : > frontpage does not let you see the included page in
the
: > design mode unless
: > : > you use frontpage includes. I am stuck between
: > performance and wysiwyg
: > : > editing.
: > : >
: > : > Any comments are appreciated
: > : > Thanks
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Ok, but no, as the main page is what is always downloaded to the browser, the browser should never
see the include pages as separate files.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
M

Murray

And - 185K is too big for a webpage....

But Thomas is right. If anything is changed, the whole magilla is
downloaded.
 
M

Mike Mueller

OK, I was not sure. But it still will take up more space on
the server per se. The 185 was just some number.


: And - 185K is too big for a webpage....
:
: But Thomas is right. If anything is changed, the whole
magilla is
: downloaded.
:
: --
: Murray
: ============
:
: : > Ok, but no, as the main page is what is always
downloaded to the browser,
: > the browser should never see the include pages as
separate files.
: >
: > --
: > ==============================================
: > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: > ==============================================
: > If you feel your current issue is a results of
installing
: > a Service Pack or security update, please contact
: > Microsoft Product Support Services:
: > http://support.microsoft.com
: > If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
: > security update, then there is usually no charge for the
call.
: > ==============================================
: >
: > : >> ----lost in thought for a moment----
: >>
: >> If the page had already been visited, and was in the
local
: >> cache is what I think I was thinking about
: >>
: >>
: >> : >> : What do you mean by downloaded, the browser would
always
: >> see a 185K file requested in your example.
: >> :
: >> : --
: >> : ==============================================
: >> : Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: >> : ==============================================
: >> : If you feel your current issue is a results of
installing
: >> : a Service Pack or security update, please contact
: >> : Microsoft Product Support Services:
: >> : http://support.microsoft.com
: >> : If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
: >> : security update, then there is usually no charge for
the
: >> call.
: >> : ==============================================
: >> :
message
: >> : : >> : > Would this be a valid example of the 'FP Include"
: >> : >
: >> : > default page is 10k, and has 3 includes-
: >> : > include 1 is 100k
: >> : > include 2 is 50k
: >> : > include 3 is 25k
: >> : >
: >> : > The actual default page would then be on the server
as
: >> 185k,
: >> : > and the 3 include pages would also be there for
another
: >> 175k
: >> : > If 1 thing was changed on any of the 4 files, when
the
: >> : > default page was loaded it would need to download
the
: >> 185k
: >> : >
: >> : > If this was asp included, the default would be the
10k,
: >> and
: >> : > the server would still have the 175k for includes
: >> : > If 1 thing was changed on any of the 4 files, then
only
: >> the
: >> : > changed page would need to be downloaded, as low as
10k.
: >> : >
: >> : > So it becomes a bandwidth vs file management issue
: >> : >
: >> : > Mike
: >> : >
: >> : >
: >> : > : >> : > : FP Includes are included when you save the file,
: >> whereas
: >> : > SSI includes are included when the page is
: >> : > : requested from the server. If you want FP to
manage
: >> the
: >> : > hyperlinks and you want to see the include
: >> : > : during design, then you are stuck with FP
Includes.
: >> : > :
: >> : > : --
: >> : > : ==============================================
: >> : > : Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: >> : > : ==============================================
: >> : > : If you feel your current issue is a results of
: >> installing
: >> : > : a Service Pack or security update, please contact
: >> : > : Microsoft Product Support Services:
: >> : > : http://support.microsoft.com
: >> : > : If the problem can be shown to have been caused
by a
: >> : > : security update, then there is usually no charge
for
: >> the
: >> : > call.
: >> : > : ==============================================
: >> : > :
in
: >> message
: >> : > :
: >>
: >> : > : > Hello,
: >> : > : > I had a web site that used frontpage used to
include
: >> 3
: >> : > other pages on every
: >> : > : > page of the site for navigational reasons. I
noticed
: >> : > that if I ever updated
: >> : > : > these pages, it would take frontpage forever to
do
: >> the
: >> : > update. It would also
: >> : > : > timeout and I would have to reapply the save
over
: >> and
: >> : > over again. Is this
: >> : > : > because those include pages were on so many of
my
: >> other
: >> : > web pages. Why is it
: >> : > : > such a big deal to update an include page used
: >> : > throughout a web site.
: >> : > : >
: >> : > : > My question is, since I am using ASP pages, am
I
: >> better
: >> : > off including them
: >> : > : > using asp code for includes? The only reason I
: >> didn't do
: >> : > that is because
: >> : > : > frontpage does not let you see the included
page in
: >> the
: >> : > design mode unless
: >> : > : > you use frontpage includes. I am stuck between
: >> : > performance and wysiwyg
: >> : > : > editing.
: >> : > : >
: >> : > : > Any comments are appreciated
: >> : > : > Thanks
: >> : > :
: >> : > :
: >> : >
: >> : >
: >> :
: >> :
: >>
: >>
: >
: >
:
:
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

You would have the same number (and I think the total size of all files would be the same) of files
using the FP Includes, as you would using SSI

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
M

Mike Mueller

I really do not, as I host my own sites.

My html for my default page is 8k, the same page with the 2
lines for the include removed is 4k.


: Wow - you really worry about this? I'm just curious....
:
: --
: Murray
: ============
:
: : > OK, I was not sure. But it still will take up more space
on
: > the server per se. The 185 was just some number.
: >
: >
message
: > : > : And - 185K is too big for a webpage....
: > :
: > : But Thomas is right. If anything is changed, the
whole
: > magilla is
: > : downloaded.
: > :
: > : --
: > : Murray
: > : ============
: > :
: > : : > : > Ok, but no, as the main page is what is always
: > downloaded to the browser,
: > : > the browser should never see the include pages as
: > separate files.
: > : >
: > : > --
: > : > ==============================================
: > : > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: > : > ==============================================
: > : > If you feel your current issue is a results of
: > installing
: > : > a Service Pack or security update, please contact
: > : > Microsoft Product Support Services:
: > : > http://support.microsoft.com
: > : > If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
: > : > security update, then there is usually no charge for
the
: > call.
: > : > ==============================================
: > : >
message
: > : > : > : >> ----lost in thought for a moment----
: > : >>
: > : >> If the page had already been visited, and was in
the
: > local
: > : >> cache is what I think I was thinking about
: > : >>
: > : >>
: > : >> : > : >> : What do you mean by downloaded, the browser would
: > always
: > : >> see a 185K file requested in your example.
: > : >> :
: > : >> : --
: > : >> : ==============================================
: > : >> : Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: > : >> : ==============================================
: > : >> : If you feel your current issue is a results of
: > installing
: > : >> : a Service Pack or security update, please contact
: > : >> : Microsoft Product Support Services:
: > : >> : http://support.microsoft.com
: > : >> : If the problem can be shown to have been caused
by a
: > : >> : security update, then there is usually no charge
for
: > the
: > : >> call.
: > : >> : ==============================================
: > : >> :
: > message
: > : >> : : > : >> : > Would this be a valid example of the 'FP
Include"
: > : >> : >
: > : >> : > default page is 10k, and has 3 includes-
: > : >> : > include 1 is 100k
: > : >> : > include 2 is 50k
: > : >> : > include 3 is 25k
: > : >> : >
: > : >> : > The actual default page would then be on the
server
: > as
: > : >> 185k,
: > : >> : > and the 3 include pages would also be there for
: > another
: > : >> 175k
: > : >> : > If 1 thing was changed on any of the 4 files,
when
: > the
: > : >> : > default page was loaded it would need to
download
: > the
: > : >> 185k
: > : >> : >
: > : >> : > If this was asp included, the default would be
the
: > 10k,
: > : >> and
: > : >> : > the server would still have the 175k for
includes
: > : >> : > If 1 thing was changed on any of the 4 files,
then
: > only
: > : >> the
: > : >> : > changed page would need to be downloaded, as
low as
: > 10k.
: > : >> : >
: > : >> : > So it becomes a bandwidth vs file management
issue
: > : >> : >
: > : >> : > Mike
: > : >> : >
: > : >> : >
message
: > : >> : > : > : >> : > : FP Includes are included when you save the
file,
: > : >> whereas
: > : >> : > SSI includes are included when the page is
: > : >> : > : requested from the server. If you want FP to
: > manage
: > : >> the
: > : >> : > hyperlinks and you want to see the include
: > : >> : > : during design, then you are stuck with FP
: > Includes.
: > : >> : > :
: > : >> : > : --
: > : >> : > :
==============================================
: > : >> : > : Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
: > : >> : > :
==============================================
: > : >> : > : If you feel your current issue is a results
of
: > : >> installing
: > : >> : > : a Service Pack or security update, please
contact
: > : >> : > : Microsoft Product Support Services:
: > : >> : > : http://support.microsoft.com
: > : >> : > : If the problem can be shown to have been
caused
: > by a
: > : >> : > : security update, then there is usually no
charge
: > for
: > : >> the
: > : >> : > call.
: > : >> : > :
==============================================
: > : >> : > :
: > : >> : > : "chris" <[email protected]>
wrote
: > in
: > : >> message
: > : >> : > :
: > : >>
: >
: > : >> : > : > Hello,
: > : >> : > : > I had a web site that used frontpage used
to
: > include
: > : >> 3
: > : >> : > other pages on every
: > : >> : > : > page of the site for navigational reasons.
I
: > noticed
: > : >> : > that if I ever updated
: > : >> : > : > these pages, it would take frontpage
forever to
: > do
: > : >> the
: > : >> : > update. It would also
: > : >> : > : > timeout and I would have to reapply the
save
: > over
: > : >> and
: > : >> : > over again. Is this
: > : >> : > : > because those include pages were on so many
of
: > my
: > : >> other
: > : >> : > web pages. Why is it
: > : >> : > : > such a big deal to update an include page
used
: > : >> : > throughout a web site.
: > : >> : > : >
: > : >> : > : > My question is, since I am using ASP pages,
am
: > I
: > : >> better
: > : >> : > off including them
: > : >> : > : > using asp code for includes? The only
reason I
: > : >> didn't do
: > : >> : > that is because
: > : >> : > : > frontpage does not let you see the included
: > page in
: > : >> the
: > : >> : > design mode unless
: > : >> : > : > you use frontpage includes. I am stuck
between
: > : >> : > performance and wysiwyg
: > : >> : > : > editing.
: > : >> : > : >
: > : >> : > : > Any comments are appreciated
: > : >> : > : > Thanks
: > : >> : > :
: > : >> : > :
: > : >> : >
: > : >> : >
: > : >> :
: > : >> :
: > : >>
: > : >>
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top