HTML Mail in 2008?

[glasgowd]

I really, really hope I'm just missing it.

Can we really STILL not include actual HTML formatting (e.g. tables) in outgoing mail messages? I thought that was on the list for improvements from 2004....

 

[Keysaw]

I really, really hope I'm just missing it.
Can we really STILL not include actual HTML formatting (e.g. tables) in outgoing mail messages? I thought that was on the list for improvements from 2004....

I asked about this at the Microsoft booth at Macworld. No. You STILL
cannot include HTML formatting in outgoing mail.

Remember, this is Microsoft we are dealing with. They do what they
want, not what the customers want. They know better.

 

[Thomas Adams]

I asked about this at the Microsoft booth at Macworld. No. You STILL
cannot include HTML formatting in outgoing mail.

Remember, this is Microsoft we are dealing with. They do what they
want, not what the customers want. They know better.

I think for a customer to have impact on design decisions in Microsoft
said customer must be a REALLY LARGE account. Maybe if the NASA or the
three top universities in the USA ask for more HTML options, the next
Office:mac will have them.

But I honestly hope these large accounts will ask for a PST importer
that reads Windows Outlook PSTs first... Or for a Messenger that is in
sync with the features of the Windows version...

 

[JE McGimpsey]

I really, really hope I'm just missing it. <br><br>Can we really STILL not
include actual HTML formatting (e.g. tables) in outgoing mail messages? I
thought that was on the list for improvements from 2004....

What in the world would HTML in mail messages be doing on a list of
improvements?

 

[Keysaw]

What in the world would HTML in mail messages be doing on a list of
improvements?

I dunno, showing that M$ actually listens to customers? Of course, it
isn't, and they didn't.

This was the Number 1 requested feature, and is a part of the email
editor in Outlook. Bring it to the Macs, Duh!

 

[Adam Bailey]

I dunno, showing that M$ actually listens to customers? Of course, it
isn't, and they didn't.

This was the Number 1 requested feature

What is your source for this? I'd be shocked if more than a tiny percentage
of Entourage users desire the creation of complex HTML messages.

Not saying it shouldn't, just saying that it's nowhere near the top of the
priority list compared to some other much more important features and bugs.

But by all means please report it directly to Microsoft, that's how they
evaluate what people want. You /have/ sent Feedback, right?

 

[Lewis]

What is your source for this? I'd be shocked if more than a tiny percentage
of Entourage users desire the creation of complex HTML messages.

I believe it. the number of numbnuts who use Incredimail (spit) would
certainly back that up.

 

[glasgowd]

Oh, please. If you don't like HTML mail, don't send it. The Mactopia newsletter is HTML, for cripe's sake.

Many of us have legitimate need for HTML functionality in the e-mails we send at work, and regardless of how tightly-sphynctered your in-box is, the rest of the world is using the technology that's available.

And YES, this is one of the MANY upgrade requests I've sent MS over the last FOUR FRICKIN' YEARS.

(Not that I'm impatient at all....)

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Oh, please. If you don't like HTML mail, don't send it. The Mactopia
newsletter is HTML, for cripe's sake. <br><br>Many of us have legitimate need
for HTML functionality in the e-mails we send at work, and regardless of how
tightly-sphynctered your in-box is, the rest of the world is using the
technology that's available. <br><br>And YES, this is one of the MANY upgrade
requests I've sent MS over the last FOUR FRICKIN' YEARS. <br><br>(Not that
I'm impatient at all....)

The sarcasm I intended obviously didn't come through.

Keep sending the feedback - and get 1,000 of your closest friends to do
so as well. Be sure to include the business case for doing so - e.g.,
what you use it for and why the customer segment you belong to needs it
or could better operate with it. That type of feedback generally gets
more attention than "I need better HTML".

And in the mean time, I'll keep sending feedback on features that I
think are important.

FWIW, I apply your advice - I neither send nor read HTML email - any
that I receive gets sent right to the Deleted Items folder, with all the
ones from people who include cheesy 2K "background" pictures. That's
undoubtedly why I don't remember seeing a MacTopia newsletter in recent
memory, even though I've registered Office dozens of times. In any case,
that works for me. YMMV (well, it *obviously* varies)...

 

[Adam Bailey]

The Mactopia newsletter is HTML, for cripe's sake.

Which Entourage is perfectly capable of sending - if you compose it in Word.

 

[glasgowd]

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Which Entourage is perfectly capable of sending - if you compose it in
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Word






Which makes perfect sense, because Word is the mail application in the Office suite, and it would be just silly to require users to open TWO applications just to send an e-mail.

Oh, wait....

 

[Henry3]

It's not only the need for SME's to send HTML newsletters, or highly formatted email... it's the much wider need for people in business to send *slightly* more highly formatted email, and have access to more convenient editing UI.

For example:
- To lay out some information in a simple table. To paste a table copied from an Excel data clip.
- Have access to handy Word formatting toolbar functions. The Entourage formatting functions are clumsy, with a whole new set of keyboard shortcuts to learn. Word formatting tools are powerful, familiar, and easy to use.
- Paste HTML clips from a web page, with formatting preserved, and use the highlight tool. Simply the ability to use the paste-formatting button would be a great help.

Small improvements would be great, but the easy solution for Microsoft is to hook in Word. Why didn't they?

Further to that: There are so many features missing from Entourage that one wonders if the Office for Mac team really had access to the Outlook codebase... it's as if they were only given Outlook Express. I worked for an independent software vendor for ten years, and the let me tell you, the inanely devious lengths that intellectually challenged business heads go to, to implement some sneaky vision about how they will achieve some brain-damaged market manipulation, is sad. Perhaps Microsoft wants to slow the growing wave of Windows-to-Mac conversions. Seriously, there could be strategic pressure at Microsoft. Makes me nervous. Apple should buy out the Office product line, and invest in making Office really Mac, on their own, by watching and leveraging Microsoft application interfaces and published standards. This could not be worse than the current situation... Entourage 2008 is lacking many important features that were in Outlook 2003. Apple should take control.

 

[John C. Welch]

It's not only the need for SME's to send HTML newsletters, or highly formatted
email... it's the much wider need for people in business to send *slightly*
more highly formatted email, and have access to more convenient editing UI.

I agree, but it's far too easy to turn simple, clean HTML into a mess with
dangerous code. Better to be a bit too simple, and just send complex
documents as attachments.

For example:
- To lay out some information in a simple table. To paste a table copied from
an Excel data clip.

The former, sure, the latter, why? What's that save you over an attachment?

- Have access to handy Word formatting toolbar functions. The Entourage
formatting functions are clumsy, with a whole new set of keyboard shortcuts to
learn. Word formatting tools are powerful, familiar, and easy to use.

For whom? Word is not an email editor, it has a ton of stuff that is useless
in an email. Word's learning curve is far higher than E'rage's, and far TOO
high just to get prettier email.

- Paste HTML clips from a web page, with formatting preserved, and use the
highlight tool. Simply the ability to use the paste-formatting button would be
a great help.

Um, that brings up a ton of potential issues, among them "What do you do
when the HTML is all db generated?". Nice idea, but lots of problems in the
implementation.

Small improvements would be great, but the easy solution for Microsoft is to
hook in Word. Why didn't they?

Well, for one, you can use Word to compose emails. But to make word the
default? Um, ugh. Word still sends out the most overblown nasty HTML since,
well, early Frontpage. Try dealing with Word-composed emails outside of a
Microsoft - only world, and that "easy solution" is quite painful.

However, since you can easily use Word to create E'rage emails *now*, what's
the problem?

 

[Henry3]

&gt; ...Word formatting tools are powerful, familiar, and easy to use.

For whom? ... Word's learning curve is far higher than E'rage's, and far TOO high just to get prettier email.

Well, for me. Maybe I'm in a small minority. I use Word, Powerpoint, and Excel almost all day every day, working on business plans. Often, all open at the same time. So it doesn't bother me to have an extra-fat application open just for email editing.

&gt; ...Paste HTML clips from a web page, with formatting preserved, ...
Um, that brings up a ton of potential issues, among them "What do you do when the HTML is all db generated?"...

Hmmm... I'm missing this... In Outlook, I (used to) copy snips from web pages (e.g. market news) reasonably often. They paste fine, whether db-generated or not. By pasting, I can highlight key parts, interject editorial comments, and send to my boss or co-worker. In Entourage, the snips lose almost all formatting, and there's no highlight pen. Looks a mess.

If you can make it easy to read on the other end, then people are more likely to read it. That's important. People are busy. Same response to "Why not attach a file?" Because too often, busy readers just don't make that extra click, they set it aside for later reading, and then it often falls off the bottom of their in-box without getting read.

Best to organize content in-line, if you have something non-trivial to say. I'm talking about one-page email, now... not finished reports. Even then, in my experience, corporate business these last few years runs on email and ppt. Word is used sparingly, mostly by professional consulting firms, legal departments, and Board reports. 99% of operational decisions are made on what's written in ppt and email.

&gt; ... the easy solution for Microsoft is to hook in Word. ...
Well, for one, you can use Word to compose emails. ... since you can
easily use Word to create E'rage emails *now*, what's
the problem?

Huh? Maybe I have some setting wrong (I just converted to Mac cold-turkey roughly on Christmas day), but when I paste from Word, the formatting isn't right, definitely loses any table structure, and can't even Undo the Paste!

But to make word the default? Um, ugh.

Wouldn't recommend that. Option, as in Outlook 2003.

Word still sends out the most overblown nasty HTML since,
... Try dealing with Word-composed emails outside of a
Microsoft - only world, and that "easy solution" is quite painful.

Overblown, yes, and that's a problem Microsoft doesn't care to work on. But nasty? No. Generally renders perfectly, as received in many email clients, including Entourage. The user is not even aware how it was generated, or if it had 50KB useless HTML in it.

Thanks for the comments... I thought there would be overwhelming support for structured email comp tools, but I can see from you and the others, I'm fairly alone in this.

Henry

 

[Michel Bintener]

Huh? Maybe I have some setting wrong (I just converted to Mac cold-turkey
roughly on Christmas day), but when I paste from Word, the formatting isn't
right, definitely loses any table structure, and can't even Undo the Paste!

If Entourage is defined as your default e-mail client, you can create any
message you want in Word, including messages with tables and hyperlinks;
when you're done, just click on File>Send to>Send to Recipient (as HTML).
This will generate a new message in Entourage which you can no longer
modify, nor add an attachment to it, but is a more or less perfect HTML
version of your Word document. This may be the solution you were looking
for. By the way, the same feature was introduced in Excel 2008, so you can
also send your Excel spreadsheets in HTML format.

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:mac (Entourage & Word)

*** Please always reply to the newsgroup. ***

 

[John C. Welch]

Huh? Maybe I have some setting wrong (I just converted to Mac cold-turkey
roughly on Christmas day), but when I paste from Word, the formatting isn't
right, definitely loses any table structure, and can't even Undo the Paste!

Ah, as teh kittehs say, ur doin it rong ;-)

File->Send to->Mail Recipient (As HTML)

Note that this works from Excel too.

Wouldn't recommend that. Option, as in Outlook 2003.

It's still not the right solution for email.

Overblown, yes, and that's a problem Microsoft doesn't care to work on. But
nasty? No. Generally renders perfectly, as received in many email clients,
including Entourage. The user is not even aware how it was generated, or if it
had 50KB useless HTML in it.

Um...that's not been consistent in my experience, and when Word HTML goes
wrong, it goes reeeeeal wrong.

Thanks for the comments... I thought there would be overwhelming support for
structured email comp tools, but I can see from you and the others, I'm fairly
alone in this.

As I pointed out, there is a way to do this, but because every.friggin.email
client has different levels of HTML support, getting too jiggy with HTML
email not only wastes space, (and a HUGE chunk of the world is on dial up.
Shocking, but they count too), but doesn't do anything productive other than
than occasionally not make you switch applications.

 

[Henry3]

Thanks for the help, folks. One good tip noted, and a lot of other good feedback.

As a power Office for Windows user since its inception, I'm a little unsettled at the number of problems, and the rate at which I discover new problems daily, in 2008. For example, in ppt, from the Formatting Palette, Table&gt; Shading&gt; Fill Color changes the color of the text, not the cell background. There is apparently no way at all to shade table cells. Problems of this order. Also, other little problems that worked fine in Office 2003 which to me, forgive me, just seem plain weird to see in 2008, if the Office for Mac team really had access to the full Windows codebase.

I'm a consultant in the IT industry, and my use of Mac needs to be (hoping will be) visible as a fully-interoperable step up, not a step back.

If the Office for Mac team is reading, please don't take my comments the wrong way, I suspect you are truly committed and doing the best you can within certain limitations, and would like to do more, but resources are limited. (Things aren't the same since Bill left... Old Foghorn Leghorn doesn't seem to cut it, as an "i" class of CEO.)

Hope there is a bug-fix release coming soon.

Thanks for listening.