Mark as junk (shift-command-J)

A

Axel Hammerschmidt

Hello!

I'm using Entourage in Office 2004 with a POP3 account. Entourage is set
to work offline. I am using a modem connection. I have a size limit on
the messages that prevents more than the first 5K from being downloaded.
These messages apear in the Inbox, or in the Junk folder, with a broken
envelope along side them in the List panes. All Preview panes is
disabled. So far so good.

I am using the built in junk filter. Sometimes, a junk mail message gets
past the filter and appears in the Inbox List pane. If it's less than
5K, I can mark the message as junk (shift-command-J) and the message is
transferred to the Junk folder.

If the message is over 5K and gets past the junk filter and appears in
the Inbox List pane and I want to mark that message as junk (with
shift-cammand-J) I am presented with a dialog window asking if I want to
connect to the Internet to complete this task.

Can anyone tell me why this junk message isn't just transferred to the
Junk folder like the junk message that is less than 5K?

Thanks.
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

I'm using Entourage in Office 2004 with a POP3 account. Entourage is set
to work offline. I am using a modem connection. I have a size limit on
the messages that prevents more than the first 5K from being downloaded.
These messages apear in the Inbox, or in the Junk folder, with a broken
envelope along side them in the List panes. All Preview panes is
disabled. So far so good.

I am using the built in junk filter. Sometimes, a junk mail message gets
past the filter and appears in the Inbox List pane. If it's less than
5K, I can mark the message as junk (shift-command-J) and the message is
transferred to the Junk folder.

If the message is over 5K and gets past the junk filter and appears in
the Inbox List pane and I want to mark that message as junk (with
shift-cammand-J) I am presented with a dialog window asking if I want to
connect to the Internet to complete this task.

Can anyone tell me why this junk message isn't just transferred to the
Junk folder like the junk message that is less than 5K?
Click to expand...

Well, you answered that yourself (and thanks for the detail):
I'm using Entourage in Office 2004 with a POP3 account. Entourage is set
to work offline. I am using a modem connection. I have a size limit on
the messages that prevents more than the first 5K from being downloaded.
Click to expand...

So if the message is less than 5K, the whole thing has already downloaded
_and has been removed from the server_. (I'm assuming here that you do not
have the option checked to leave messages on the server.) So when you mark
the message as junk, it's a simple matter for Entourage to move the message
from one local folder (the Inbox) to another (the local Junk folder). When
the message is over 5K, only 5K's worth has downloaded, and the entire
message is still up on the server. Once a message has been moved from the
Inbox to the Junk folder, it will no longer be synchronized with the server,
presumably. So in order to move it, Entourage first wants to connect to the
server in order to remove it from the server. But you're working offline, so
it asks permission first.

I guess an alternate method would allow the partially downloaded message to
be moved and would only try to connect when you - what? - tried to delete
it? You really do _not_ want the local copy and the message on the server to
be unlinked. You could end up with hundreds or thousands of messages still
on the server that you didn't know about. That would be far worse. It's
essential that you still be able to "see" the messages still on the server.
If you only got the "Do you want to connect?" nag when deleting all messages
at once from the Junk folder, say, it might be not only more annoying but
also confusing since you wouldn't be sure which messages it was referring
to, or you might get 100 such dialogs, one for each such message. Isn't it
better to get it for the specific message as you junk it?

I think that if you did choose the option to leave messages on the server,
you'd get this for every message you junked while offline, for the same
reason.

What happens if you instead drag the message to the Junk folder?

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.
 
A

Axel Hammerschmidt

Paul Berkowitz said:
Well, you answered that yourself (and thanks for the detail):


So if the message is less than 5K, the whole thing has already downloaded
_and has been removed from the server_. (I'm assuming here that you do not
have the option checked to leave messages on the server.)
Click to expand...

Thank you for your answer.

I do have that option checked. All mails on the server are deleted
manually. After they have been either downloaded- or, if the message is
junk and over 5K, is still only partially downloaded.

All messages (including all the junk mail and the junk messages that got
past the filter) had also been deleted on the server before I tried to
mark the partially downloaded junk message over 5K as junk mail.

(I could have just deleted the local, partially downloaded junk message,
that got past the filter, without marking it as junk first. It will end
up being deleted. I wanted to mark the message as junk first, because I
wanted to see if that would improve the efficiency of the filter.
Something like training a neural network).

I don't have Allow online access (shows account in folder list) checked.
So when you mark the message as junk, it's a simple matter for Entourage
to move the message from one local folder (the Inbox) to another (the
local Junk folder).
Yes!

When the message is over 5K, only 5K's worth has downloaded, and the
entire message is still up on the server. Once a message has been moved
from the Inbox to the Junk folder, it will no longer be synchronized with
the server, presumably.
Click to expand...

No, the junk message over 5K had already been deleted from the server
manually and was no longer on the server.
So in order to move it, Entourage first wants to connect to the server in
order to remove it from the server. But you're working offline, so it
asks permission first.
Click to expand...

No, see above.
I guess an alternate method would allow the partially downloaded message to
be moved and would only try to connect when you - what? - tried to delete
it?
Click to expand...

Yes, and activating the "Delete messages from the server after they are
deleted from this computer" in the account option?
You really do _not_ want the local copy and the message on the server to
be unlinked.
Click to expand...

I agree. But this is not the case.
You could end up with hundreds or thousands of messages still
on the server that you didn't know about. That would be far worse. It's
essential that you still be able to "see" the messages still on the server.
If you only got the "Do you want to connect?" nag when deleting all messages
at once from the Junk folder, say, it might be not only more annoying but
also confusing since you wouldn't be sure which messages it was referring
to, or you might get 100 such dialogs, one for each such message. Isn't it
better to get it for the specific message as you junk it?

I think that if you did choose the option to leave messages on the server,
you'd get this for every message you junked while offline, for the same
reason.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the information about which messages are still on the server
(none of them) is (supposed to be) syncronised all right.
What happens if you instead drag the message to the Junk folder?
Click to expand...

I'll try that. But will that also result in the message being marked as
junk mail? Will that improve the filter? Maybe the filter is just a
statik filter?

And it gets worse! I tried the same trick, marking a partially
downloaded junk message that got past the filter and that had been
deleted from the server as Junk mail while the connection was open (but
with Work Offline in the Entourage menu still checked) and hit the
Connect button in the before mentioned dialog window. I then got a
spinning wheel that just went on, and on. Entourage had locked up.

The wheel stopped spinning when I moved the curser away from the open
Entourage panels on the screen. So I could start a Terminal and shutdown
and reboot the machine.

There's something wrong somewhere.
 
A

Axel Hammerschmidt

Axel Hammerschmidt said:
Thank you for your answer.

I do have that option checked. All mails on the server are deleted
manually. After they have been either downloaded- or, if the message is
junk and over 5K, is still only partially downloaded.

All messages (including all the junk mail and the junk messages that got
past the filter) had also been deleted on the server before I tried to
mark the partially downloaded junk message over 5K as junk mail.

(I could have just deleted the local, partially downloaded junk message,
that got past the filter, without marking it as junk first. It will end
up being deleted. I wanted to mark the message as junk first, because I
wanted to see if that would improve the efficiency of the filter.
Something like training a neural network).

I don't have Allow online access (shows account in folder list) checked.


No, the junk message over 5K had already been deleted from the server
manually and was no longer on the server.


No, see above.


Yes, and activating the "Delete messages from the server after they are
deleted from this computer" in the account option?


I agree. But this is not the case.


Yes, but the information about which messages are still on the server
(none of them) is (supposed to be) syncronised all right.


I'll try that. But will that also result in the message being marked as
junk mail? Will that improve the filter? Maybe the filter is just a
statik filter?

And it gets worse! I tried the same trick, marking a partially
downloaded junk message that got past the filter and that had been
deleted from the server as Junk mail while the connection was open (but
with Work Offline in the Entourage menu still checked) and hit the
Connect button in the before mentioned dialog window. I then got a
spinning wheel that just went on, and on. Entourage had locked up.

The wheel stopped spinning when I moved the curser away from the open
Entourage panels on the screen. So I could start a Terminal and shutdown
and reboot the machine.

There's something wrong somewhere.
Click to expand...

I've again tried marking a partially downloaded junk message over 5K
that got past the filter as Junk mail, but this time before deleting the
message from the server and then, while connected with the modem,
hitting the Connect button when I am presented with the dialog pane,
asking if I want to connect to the Internet to complete this task. This
time no spinning wheel. I did however use the Menu command and not the
keyboard shortcut (shift-command-J).

There is some modem activity. The message is marked as Junk mail and
moved to the Junk mail folder. So far so good, only now the rest of the
message has also been downloaded, even though it had not been marked to
be downloaded. The message now appears in the Junk mail folder List pane
with a complete mail envelope next to it. I've also tried to open one of
them and the whole message was indeed present.

When this message is marked for deletion and a new connection is made,
using command-K, the message is again moved out of the Junk mail folder
back to the Inbox, and the envelope is gone indicating that it has been
deleted from the server.

I checked the mail server using webmail and the mails had been deleted
allright. I'm going to have a go at it using shift-command-J next time
to see if Entourage still locks up.

I will also try and drag a junk message over 5K to the Junk mail folder.
Fortunately I get quite a lot of spam :)

And there is no filtering by the isp.
 
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