No Ink in OneNote Mobile 2007 ? What a joke.

[EMRhelp.org]

It's a farce to think that a pocketpc app shouldn't have INK.

OneNote Mobile is a smart phone app obviously and the lack of ink
underlines that.

Thumbs down.

Good article here.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,48979

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

Aloha EMRhelp.org,

It's a farce to think that a pocketpc app shouldn't have INK.

OneNote Mobile is a smart phone app obviously and the lack of ink
underlines that.

Yes, we knew that from the beginning. It was designed and developed for
SmartPhones. This is news to you?

Thumbs down.

If it hadn't been for a lot of strenuous lobbying you wouldn't have it on
the PPC at all. Be thankful that we worked so hard to give you something
else to gripe about. ;-)

-B

 

[halfempty]

Ben.

I've been a proponent of Microsoft for many years, with many of my
fellow IT colleagues are very anti-MS. Posts like the ones below don't
help MS's image, especially the arrogance. You don't say things like
"Be thankful you have something to gripe about". The reality is most
note taking apps on the PPC support ink. There are more people taking
notes with PPCs than Smartphones, so it DOES make sense for MS to
support the PPC platform a little better. If porting OneNote to PPC
should be viewed as a "Favour" to us, then it shows what kind of
development and support we will be getting in the future.

FYI, I love OneNote 2007 on the desktop. I think it's an innovative
product, and integrates well with Outlook. I was planning on using it
going forward. However, based on the comments I'm seeing about future
development on the PPC, I will be sticking with Phatnotes or use Natara
Daynotez instead.

If for some reason your post was meant to be a joke, I apologize

 

[Patrick Schmid]

Read this post for background on OneNote Mobile 2007:
http://blogs.msdn.com/chris_pratley/archive/2005/11/21/494990.aspx

Patrick Schmid

 

[Todd]

Take a look a some of EMRHelp.org's other posts and you'll understand
Ben's comments.

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

Aloha halfempty,

Ben.

I've been a proponent of Microsoft for many years, with many of my
fellow IT colleagues are very anti-MS. Posts like the ones below don't
help MS's image, especially the arrogance. You don't say things like
"Be thankful you have something to gripe about". The reality is most
note taking apps on the PPC support ink.

Understood, but the reality here is that this app wasn't designed for the
PPC and only got included for PPC after quite a bit of community feedback.
Originally it was designed for SmartPhone-only and that meant no ink. Adding
ink support is a substantial change to the codebase for OneNote Mobile and
something they simply couldn't do.

I should add that the tone of my previous response may be a bit more tangy
than usual because EMRHelp has a long history in this group of complaining
about aspects of OneNote.

There are more people taking notes with PPCs than Smartphones, so it DOES make sense for MS to
support the PPC platform a little better.

I agree, but the reality is that OneNote Mobile was developed for SmartPhone
and that PPC support was a fairly late change in this version.

If porting OneNote to PPC
should be viewed as a "Favour" to us, then it shows what kind of
development and support we will be getting in the future.

Porting OneNote to PPC was done in response to strong community feedback
(including from me) that said exactly what you're saying. That a LOT of
PPC users would want to be able to use OneNote on their PPCs. I'm simply
responding to the complaint that OneNote Mobile doesn't have ink support
and explaining why it doesn't have ink support.

I'm sure the next version of OneNote Mobile will be a much richer experience
for PPC users. For this version what we've got is what they had the resources
to do.

If for some reason your post was meant to be a joke, I apologize

Not a joke exactly, but a little bit of a good-natured poke at somebody we
have a LONG history with in this NG.

-Ben-

 

[Grant Robertson]

Aloha halfempty,
I should add that the tone of my previous response may be a bit more tangy
than usual because EMRHelp has a long history in this group of complaining
about aspects of OneNote.

Not a joke exactly, but a little bit of a good-natured poke at somebody we
have a LONG history with in this NG.

What, someone complains about OneNote even more than I do? It just can
not be!...

You know I complain so much because I want it to be the best that it can
be and I know what things trip up most regular users. I also don't like
it when people gloss over problems rather than dealing with them because
I feel they aren't as likely to be addressed if you do that.

However, I do honestly wonder just how anyone can say they use ON 2007
beta on a daily basis for all of their real-world note-taking and not
have it drive them crazy. Many of the problems I have complained about in
ON 2007 beta involve what I consider to be core functionality. I think it
is pretty safe to say that the core functionality of OneNote is actually
taking and rearranging notes. Though not all OneNote users have Tablet
PCs, handwriting is touted as a primary feature and the ability to take
notes in handwriting is the first and foremost reason for me to use
OneNote. So when rearranging handwritten paragraphs corrupts them beyond
usability it is an important issue.

And yet, not a single response to my post about that. It seems that
everyone is more interested in all the fancy things like syncing and
sharing notebooks. But what is the good of that when all you can do is
write something down once and never move it? What is the point of talking
about taking notes and creating outlines if you can't create outlines as
you take notes in handwriting? What is the good of searching through lots
of documents imported into OneNote if you can only ever see the first
search result for each page (which may be hundreds of real pages long)
without tediously scanning for it with your eyeballs?

It's all about core functionality folks! Entering and finding! Entering
and finding! Isn't that what you supposedly created OneNote for in the
first place? Heck, you are only on the second real version of the thing
and you are already forgetting these basics.

I'm telling you, I am seriously considering just going to Journal and
Google Desktop Search.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

However, I do honestly wonder just how anyone can say they use ON 2007

beta on a daily basis for all of their real-world note-taking and not
have it drive them crazy. Many of the problems I have complained about in
ON 2007 beta involve what I consider to be core functionality. I think it
is pretty safe to say that the core functionality of OneNote is actually
taking and rearranging notes. Though not all OneNote users have Tablet
PCs, handwriting is touted as a primary feature and the ability to take
notes in handwriting is the first and foremost reason for me to use
OneNote. So when rearranging handwritten paragraphs corrupts them beyond
usability it is an important issue.

I've been using OneNote 2007 since November on a Tablet and Desktop. The
thing is that I hardly ever rearrange notes. It's just not one of the
features I'd consider to be a core functionality. Taking yes,
rearranging no. The few cases that I did it, I ran into some issues, but
these were actually bugs that have already been fixed (earlier beta
versions were much worse when it comes to rearranging note containers
e.g.). I don't rearrange much, because for me it's often faster to just
keep writing for me. Granted, I don't do many outlines either.

And yet, not a single response to my post about that. It seems that
everyone is more interested in all the fancy things like syncing and
sharing notebooks. But what is the good of that when all you can do is
write something down once and never move it? What is the point of talking

What's it good for? I annotate papers (printed to ON), take class notes,
keep a research log, jot down ideas, etc and for most of these things
writing them down once is sufficient.

about taking notes and creating outlines if you can't create outlines as
you take notes in handwriting? What is the good of searching through lots

Sure you can create outlines in handwriting. Just do what you do on
paper, namely write the number. This works a lot more reliable than
trying to use bullets or numbers and putting your handwriting behind it.

of documents imported into OneNote if you can only ever see the first
search result for each page (which may be hundreds of real pages long)
without tediously scanning for it with your eyeballs?

As I said in an earlier post, the searching seems to work here within a
page, albeit the UI for it is off. The small arrows do search for me
within a page and I use them frequently.

It's all about core functionality folks! Entering and finding! Entering
and finding! Isn't that what you supposedly created OneNote for in the
first place? Heck, you are only on the second real version of the thing
and you are already forgetting these basics.

Nope, they are not on the second version yet. Remember it is a beta
software that has bugs. Some of these bugs pre-date Beta 2, meaning they
were found by official beta testers in Beta 1 or Beta 1 Technical
Refresh, but weren't considered to be a high enough priority to be fixed
back then.

OneNote 2007 has already come a long way. If you had seen Beta 1, you'd
be very appreciative of the functionality in Beta 2. For example, back
then, OneNote would crash maybe once a day for me. Or if you wrote a
title in handwriting in the title field, when you got B1TR, suddenly the
empty title field would be over the handwriting and your title would be
basically unreadable. Based on the past performance of the OneNote team
in this beta, by RTM the team will have fixed the rearranging bugs, the
search and search UI issues, etc. Especially the handwriting support is
important to the ON team, and they have gone to great efforts in this
beta to deliver superb handwriting support for Tablet PCs. It's still
full of bugs, but I have no doubt those will be fixed.
It is important for beta users to find those bugs and let the team know
about them. I take it you have already submitted feedback on Connect on
all the issues you raised? If not, you should do that. Newsgroups are a
great way of interacting with other beta testers and MS employees, but
the official way of getting a bug addressed is Connect.

I'm telling you, I am seriously considering just going to Journal and
Google Desktop Search.

No one is stopping you

Patrick Schmid

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

Aloha Grant,

What, someone complains about OneNote even more than I do? It just can
not be!...

Oh, it is, it is.

However, I do honestly wonder just how anyone can say they use ON 2007
beta on a daily basis for all of their real-world note-taking and not
have it drive them crazy.

We do - our whole company does actually. Have been for months.

in ON 2007 beta involve what I consider to be core functionality. I
think it is pretty safe to say that the core functionality of OneNote
is actually taking and rearranging notes.

Yes, that's some of it.

Though not all OneNote users
have Tablet PCs, handwriting is touted as a primary feature and the
ability to take notes in handwriting is the first and foremost reason
for me to use OneNote. So when rearranging handwritten paragraphs
corrupts them beyond usability it is an important issue.

And yet, not a single response to my post about that.

Actually I've been meaning to test it and respond but haven't gotten around
to it yet. I can't recollect having any particular problem rearranging handwritten
paragraphs in ON2007B2, but I'm not positive I've tried it yet either. Our
notes are a mix of handwriting and typing and while we do occasionally rearrange
it's not something we do often.

So...after I get a chance to test it I'll have a better idea of what the
situation is there.

It seems that
everyone is more interested in all the fancy things like syncing and
sharing notebooks. But what is the good of that when all you can do is
write something down once and never move it? What is the point of
talking about taking notes and creating outlines if you can't create
outlines as you take notes in handwriting? What is the good of
searching through lots of documents imported into OneNote if you can
only ever see the first search result for each page (which may be
hundreds of real pages long) without tediously scanning for it with
your eyeballs?

Agreed on all points. But I'm sure I've moved notes occasionally and I don't
recollect having a problem (as above, I'll try it again and pay more attention).
I do outlines all the time, sometimes in ink, and again I don't recollect
much of a problem. The search thing is too early to say -- search has been
totally changed in ON2007 and I don't think they're nearly finished with
it yet, so I take any issues around search with a grain of salt because I
know there is still a LOT of work going into that feature before RTM happens.

-B-

 

[halfempty]

Aloha halfempty,

I'm sure the next version of OneNote Mobile will be a much richer experience
for PPC users. For this version what we've got is what they had the resources
to do.


Not a joke exactly, but a little bit of a good-natured poke at somebody we
have a LONG history with in this NG.

-Ben-

Hi Ben.

Thanks for the reply. I realized after I posted it that I should have
checked the history on the back and forths between the two of you.

I guess my frustration is that I thought I finally found the tool that
would help integrate everything in my desktop / PPC world.

For now I'll stick to Phatnotes, but I'll be back when the next version
is out (OneNote 2008?)

Good luck.

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

Aloha halfempty,

Hi Ben.

Thanks for the reply. I realized after I posted it that I should have
checked the history on the back and forths between the two of you.

I guess my frustration is that I thought I finally found the tool that
would help integrate everything in my desktop / PPC world.

For now I'll stick to Phatnotes, but I'll be back when the next
version is out (OneNote 2008?)

Understandable. I'm finding Mobile to be a good tool for quick and dirty
notes on my PPC6700 that I can then transfer to my PC later. I do wish it
had ink support, but thanks to the better-than-average thumb-board on the
PPC6700 it's tolerable with typing.

And, to be honest, most of the time that I'm taking notes on the 6700 I'm
walking, in an elevator, passenger in a car...places where high quality ink
are pretty unlikely (at least for me) anyhow.


-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr - MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
Microsoft OneNote FAQ: http://www.factplace.com/onenotefaq.ht

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

Aloha Grant,

Just to follow-up -- I just went to a page in OneNote where we have a lot
of handwritten notes and as a test started grabbing individual lines and
paragraphs and dragging them up or down to reorder/rearrange them. I was
using the mouse at the time.

It seemed to work pretty well for me. Am I doing something differently than
you are when you're experiencing the problem?

-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr - MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
Microsoft OneNote FAQ: http://www.factplace.com/onenotefaq.htm

 

[Grant Robertson]

as a test started grabbing individual lines and
paragraphs and dragging them up or down to reorder/rearrange them.

It seemed to work pretty well for me. Am I doing something differently than
you are when you're experiencing the problem?

No, that is the same thing I was doing. Try dragging one paragraph to
just below the next paragraph. Then grab another nearby and drag it
between them. I was also moving paragraphs that I had just written. When
I went back to things I had written in previous sessions (or even to
those same paragraphs in a later session) I didn't seem to have as much
trouble. However, after moving things around some, the problem always
returned eventually. Try moving the same few paragraphs around eadh other
a bunch of times. You might not think this would happen often but I do it
a lot as I am figuring out how I want to organize my thoughts or notes
from class.

Unfortunately, I can't test things any more because I uninstalled it. I
was spending way too much time messing with the beta instead of studying.

 

[Rainald Taesler]

[...] I was spending way too much time messing with
the beta instead of studying.

I believe you ;-) Seemsobvious <g,d&rf>

Rainald

 

[Rainald Taesler]

[...] I can't recollect having any particular problem
rearranging handwritten paragraphs in ON2007B2, but I'm not
positive I've tried it yet either. Our notes are a mix of
handwriting and typing and while we do
occasionally rearrange it's not something we do often.

The main problem IMO is that one can not tie a handwritten annotation
to a paragraph and/or any handwritten stuff to a container holding
text or aqn image or handwritten stuff.

So moving a container or adding a few lines will the ink item no
longer have in sync with the position in the text where it belongs to.

In so far a big difference to how ink works in Word (which actually -
contary to ON - was not designed for that). The annotation stays with
the text there.

And too bad that there is no way of "grouping" items ...

Rainald

 

[PDailey]

Sort of expansion on th Ink discussion. Drawings in the PC onenote do not
sync on Mobile version. I can do this in Word.

Ink notes cannot be input on OneNote Mobile at all, but I can do this in
Outlook notes that sync to PC outlook and I can see the ink on the PC.

Just from a product development and marketing standpoint it would see
logical to have the same basic capabilities across outlook, Word and Onenote
syncing to Pocket PC.

From a usefulness standpoint ink on OneNote Mobile is a must and it needs to
transfer to the PC.
--
Pat

[...] I can't recollect having any particular problem
rearranging handwritten paragraphs in ON2007B2, but I'm not
positive I've tried it yet either. Our notes are a mix of
handwriting and typing and while we do
occasionally rearrange it's not something we do often.

The main problem IMO is that one can not tie a handwritten annotation
to a paragraph and/or any handwritten stuff to a container holding
text or aqn image or handwritten stuff.

So moving a container or adding a few lines will the ink item no
longer have in sync with the position in the text where it belongs to.

In so far a big difference to how ink works in Word (which actually -
contary to ON - was not designed for that). The annotation stays with
the text there.

And too bad that there is no way of "grouping" items ...

Rainald

 

[Patrick Schmid]

OneNote Mobile was developed for smartphones, which do not support ink.
Only due to massive requests by beta users during the private beta phase
did MS also provide it for PocketPCs.
In this case, you should be very lucky that the application is available
at all on PocketPCs and just live without the ink.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

Sort of expansion on th Ink discussion. Drawings in the PC onenote do not
sync on Mobile version. I can do this in Word.

Ink notes cannot be input on OneNote Mobile at all, but I can do this in
Outlook notes that sync to PC outlook and I can see the ink on the PC.

Just from a product development and marketing standpoint it would see
logical to have the same basic capabilities across outlook, Word and Onenote
syncing to Pocket PC.

From a usefulness standpoint ink on OneNote Mobile is a must and it needs to
transfer to the PC.
--
Pat

[...] I can't recollect having any particular problem
rearranging handwritten paragraphs in ON2007B2, but I'm not
positive I've tried it yet either. Our notes are a mix of
handwriting and typing and while we do
occasionally rearrange it's not something we do often.

The main problem IMO is that one can not tie a handwritten annotation
to a paragraph and/or any handwritten stuff to a container holding
text or aqn image or handwritten stuff.

So moving a container or adding a few lines will the ink item no
longer have in sync with the position in the text where it belongs to.

In so far a big difference to how ink works in Word (which actually -
contary to ON - was not designed for that). The annotation stays with
the text there.

And too bad that there is no way of "grouping" items ...

Rainald