Tungsten T3 and Entourage X

[Ryan]

Is there any support from Microsoft to sync all my information in
Entourage X with my new T3? According to the download page for the
Entourage conduit, microsoft does not support the 'new features' on
the T3 (calendar, contacts, notepad) which happen to be my WHOLE
reason for having a Palm. Entourage is my bread and butter and I
would hate to have to import all my stuff to Palm desktop to do what I
need. Please help.

Ryan

ps is there any support for my T3 in the Office 2004?

 

[Barry Wainwright]

The sync will work with those palm apps, what won't happen is that Entourage
knows nothing at all about the new fields that have suddenly appeared in the
latest versions of those apps, so things like second addresses etc won't be
synced over. All the pre-existing fields will be synced, just like entourage
x synced with older palm handhelds.

The new apps appeared too late in the 2004 development cycle to be included.

 

[Greg Jones]

I did not post the original question, but I do appreciate the response.
Support for the T3 in a future version of the Entourage 2004 conduit would
be appreciated. BTW, the new fields in the Palm apps have not appeared
suddenly-I purchased my Tungsten 3 eight months ago tomorrow.

Greg Jones

The sync will work with those palm apps, what won't happen is that Entourage
knows nothing at all about the new fields that have suddenly appeared in the
latest versions of those apps, so things like second addresses etc won't be
synced over. All the pre-existing fields will be synced, just like entourage
x synced with older palm handhelds.

The new apps appeared too late in the 2004 development cycle to be included.

Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.

 

[KillBill]

Don't you people realize that the MVPs don't work for Microsoft. All I
hear is complain and complain like it was their fault. They are here to
help us voluntarily. I really appreciate the work you guys do here.
Keep up the good work.

KillBill

 

[Ignat Solzhenitsyn]

on 5/21/04 13.31, in article BCD3B51B.CC4%[email protected], Greg Jones

I did not post the original question, but I do appreciate the response.
Support for the T3 in a future version of the Entourage 2004 conduit would
be appreciated. BTW, the new fields in the Palm apps have not appeared
suddenly-I purchased my Tungsten 3 eight months ago tomorrow.

Greg Jones





Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.

I believe 8 months ago does qualify as ³suddenly² in software-writing
circles. I believe Barry was suggesting that no ³heads-up² was given to the
Mac BU in order for them to incorporate these Palm OS changes into their
conduit.

 

[Greg Jones]

Perhaps your handle should be "ChillBill." Nothing in my message was a
complaint-rather I stated that I appreciated the response.

Don't you people realize that the MVPs don't work for Microsoft. All I
hear is complain and complain like it was their fault. They are here to
help us voluntarily. I really appreciate the work you guys do here.
Keep up the good work.

KillBill

Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.

 

[Ryan]

I appreciate the response as well. I apologize that I did not look
deeper in the thread history or else I would have seen my question
answered there in a few places. I am thankful for those of you that
have gone before....experiencing some frustration and coming up with
solutions for people less technologically adept as myself. This may
be another redundant question to ask, but does anyone know if MS or
MACBU has any plans to issue a conduit that will resolve these
problems, or is it, to some degree, like syncing apples and
oranges....both fruit but that's about all we can say....?

What about the possibility of Mac producing a handheld...any rumors
(Ignat?). Thanks again.

Ryan

 

[BB]

Ok, right. Let's start developing. We need to update the Palm conduit don't
we? Ok. Should we head over to Palm and check if there is something new
coming along that we need to take care of? Naaw, why bother. Surely somenone
will tell us if something new happens that we need to consider...

It's just like the lacking support for datebook categories. There's been
plenty of posts about that issue in this forum, and surely quite a few
feed-back suggestions directly to the Mac BU about this, but still it didn't
get into the new conduit for 2004.

I'm a bit dissapointed about this. (It shows, doesn't it?)

/Bo

 

[Barry Wainwright]

Yes, it shows.

Since you are so disappointed, and since you just _know_ how easy this
stuff is, I'm surprised you don't write your own PIM client that does it
properly.

After all, there must be /millions/ of people waiting for it...

 

[BB]

I have the deepest respect for software development since I am in the
business myself. Writing sync software is probably very difficult since it
often fails to do its job properly. (And that goes for iSync too, not only
MS software.) But adding category support for datebook can't be difficult if
you already have done it for the other databases. Categories look alike
regardless of database type in Palm. Adding support for new fields in an
existing sync software shouldn't be extremely difficult either.

What disturbs me is the claim that the MS BU wasn't aware of the changes
with the new handhelds. I sincerely believed that being Microsoft, you would
have close contact with Palm and access to information about upcoming stuff.
As for the Datebook category problem, it was up on this discussion board at
least as far back as in 2002. I, and probably many others, have sent this
feedback directly to the Mac BU through whatever feedback channels are
available.

So, to conclude, I don't mean to disrespect the developers effort, I'm just
bothered about the claimed element of surprise ;-)

/Bo

 

[Dave Cortright]

So, to conclude, I don't mean to disrespect the developers effort, I'm just
bothered about the claimed element of surprise ;-)

I can assure you it is more than simply a claim; It is true. From what I've
seen, Palm isn't doing well financially and it appears that one of the areas
they are cutting back on is the Mac support as witnessed by their recent
announcement at the developers conference not to release further revisions
of Hotsync for the Mac and instead relying on a third party to provide a
solution.

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

What disturbs me is the claim that the MS BU wasn't aware of the changes
with the new handhelds. I sincerely believed that being Microsoft, you would
have close contact with Palm and access to information about upcoming stuff.

It doesn't really matter what you sincerely believed, you know. I too
believe that Palm would not make changes to their OS without at least
notifying people at Microsoft WINDOWS. Sure enough, there's a conduit for
Microsoft Outlook Windows that works with the new Palm OS. (I'm not certain,
but I believe that the market there is so big that a 3rd-party is willing to
license the conduit and make it, and support it, on behalf of Palm. I don't
think Microsoft itself makes the Palm conduit for Outlook. So it may be that
there was no need for Palm to contact anyone at Microsoft at all. Just these
conduit licencers,) Only no one bothered to tell MacBU. The first they knew
of it was when Palm OS 5 was released. Development and commitment of
resources were far too advanced at that point to be able to do anything
about it for this 11.0.0 release. MacBU make the Entourage Palm conduit
themselves since Palm doesn't do it nor license it. But they have to have
the APIs in order to do it. Palm did not alert them until after Palm OS 5
and the Outlook conduits were already released.

And why do you say "you"? Barry doesn't work for Microsoft (nor do I). MVPs
are users, like you, who have been recognized by Microsoft for the help they
give to other users, like you, in public forums like this newsgroup.

As for the Datebook category problem, it was up on this discussion board at
least as far back as in 2002. I, and probably many others, have sent this
feedback directly to the Mac BU through whatever feedback channels are
available.

And guess what? MacBU passed on the complaints to Palm many times, for what
it was worth (as I'm sure so did Outlook and Palm customers directly). For 9
years, Palm did nothing to enable second addresses or Datebook categories.
Finally, when they did, they did not alert MacBU in advance. Do you think
MacBU would not have wanted to have up-to-date conduits for their own new
release? Palm have already announced that they won't be supporting the Mac
directly in future development (Cobalt - OS 6). I don't think that the Mac,
or Entourage, figure in their thoughts at all. Apparently Mark/Space, who
make the excellent Missing Sync software for syncing to Cliés and other
devices, will be doing future Palm OS support for OS 6. I believe they may
have also come out with software for syncing Palm OS 5 to the Apple iApps,
but not to Entourage. Presumably Palm are in touch with Mark/Space, but not
with MS MacBU.

So, to conclude, I don't mean to disrespect the developers effort, I'm just
bothered about the claimed element of surprise ;-)

Now you're calling them liars. I see. Well, you're wrong in this case. And
you are indeed disrespecting them by implying that it was MacBU who allowed
this to happen.


--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP Entourage
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Entourage you are using - **2004**, X
or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions otherwise.

 

[BB]

It doesn't really matter what you sincerely believed, you know. I too
believe that Palm would not make changes to their OS without at least
notifying people at Microsoft WINDOWS. Sure enough, there's a conduit for
Microsoft Outlook Windows that works with the new Palm OS. (I'm not certain,
but I believe that the market there is so big that a 3rd-party is willing to
license the conduit and make it, and support it, on behalf of Palm. I don't
think Microsoft itself makes the Palm conduit for Outlook. So it may be that
there was no need for Palm to contact anyone at Microsoft at all. Just these
conduit licencers,) Only no one bothered to tell MacBU. The first they knew
of it was when Palm OS 5 was released. Development and commitment of
resources were far too advanced at that point to be able to do anything
about it for this 11.0.0 release. MacBU make the Entourage Palm conduit
themselves since Palm doesn't do it nor license it. But they have to have
the APIs in order to do it. Palm did not alert them until after Palm OS 5
and the Outlook conduits were already released.

OK, fair enough.

And why do you say "you"? Barry doesn't work for Microsoft (nor do I). MVPs
are users, like you, who have been recognized by Microsoft for the help they
give to other users, like you, in public forums like this newsgroup.

I meant "you" in the general sense, not Barry in particular. Maybe I should
write "one" instead of "you"? Sorry, English is not my first language. I
realise that you are users. (Not Microsoft, you Paul, Barry et al..)

And guess what? MacBU passed on the complaints to Palm many times, for what
it was worth (as I'm sure so did Outlook and Palm customers directly). For 9
years, Palm did nothing to enable second addresses or Datebook categories.
Finally, when they did, they did not alert MacBU in advance. Do you think
MacBU would not have wanted to have up-to-date conduits for their own new
release? Palm have already announced that they won't be supporting the Mac
directly in future development (Cobalt - OS 6). I don't think that the Mac,
or Entourage, figure in their thoughts at all. Apparently Mark/Space, who
make the excellent Missing Sync software for syncing to Cliés and other
devices, will be doing future Palm OS support for OS 6. I believe they may
have also come out with software for syncing Palm OS 5 to the Apple iApps,
but not to Entourage. Presumably Palm are in touch with Mark/Space, but not
with MS MacBU.

I think this is the major cause of misunderstanding. The Datebook category
information synced prior to Palm OS 5, even though the Palm Datebook
application didn't support it. I don't remember in which version this
support was added to the sync software, but Pimlico took advantage of it in
Datebook5 which doesn't rely on the comment field any longer. (Even though
the comment field is still used for backup or something.) If the Mac BU had
added this support to their conduit the users of Datebook5 and possibly
other third party applications would have been happier. Users of Tungsten T3
and the like would of course have benefited from this too. Maybe this
information hasn't come across properly. Pity...

Now you're calling them liars. I see. Well, you're wrong in this case. And
you are indeed disrespecting them by implying that it was MacBU who allowed
this to happen.

Excuse me, I even put a smiley in there to indicate some kind of irony. I
raised a question about what I thought was strange in the relation between
the Mac BU and Palm. I just got a good explanation from you and
unfortunately it makes sense. But as a paying customer to Microsoft I must
have the right to question their behaviour without getting accused of being
a liar.

I'm as dependant of the office suite as any Mac user. I really want to use
my Mac to its full potential. I really want to see good software from the
Mac BU. I can live with the fact that the new fields and stuff in the new
Palms is not supported. But again, I had really hoped for that category
support in datebook. Even more so since it was brought up in the context of
third party applications almost two years ago. Here on this very board.

The information on about how to implement this support, was even forwarded
by you to the Mac BU back in 2002. (According to old posts on this board.)
Albeit without any promises of it getting implemented. I know that it's
almost impossible to get information out from a development unit of what is
included in the next release, but it surely would help avoiding some
frustration...

Oh well, maybe there will be an update to the Handheld sync software. And
maybe we will get told about it in advance of it's release even That
would be good news indeed.

Best regards,

Bo


Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

Oh well, maybe there will be an update to the Handheld sync software.

I would think that's a reasonable expectation. When Office v. X was released
(November 2001), Palm still hadn't released their APIs for Palm Desktop OS
X, and didn't until mid-January 2002. Some months later (June or July 2002),
shortly after Entourage X SR-1 (10.1.0) was released, MS released the Palm
Handheld Synchronization Conduit. Because people were so agitated that it
had not come out yet, they rushed it a bit, giving themselves on one or two
months after finishing the work on SR-1. You may recall they the had to
recall it a week or two later, and then reissued a fixed version in
mid-August. I imagine they won't want to rush it this time, and will again
be working simultaneously on an SR-1 for Office 2004 after bugs are
prioritized.

And
maybe we will get told about it in advance of it's release even That
would be good news indeed.

That isn't such a reasonable expectation. They're not likely to make an
advance announcement since they won't know in advance when it will be ready
or bug-free.


--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP Entourage
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Entourage you are using - **2004**, X
or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions otherwise.

 

[kbleicher]

I just purchased a Treo 650 and I have the same issues as the original
contributor.

This topic transpired in May, and evidently the field compatibility
issue continues to exist as the conduit packaged with Office 2004 lacks
support for the new Palm OS fields (and I can't find an updated Palm
conduit on Microsoft's web site).

I understand the difficulties in keeping up with software; I don't wish
to contribute to that part of the thread as it's sticky at best.

Rather, a simple question: Any updates? Did Microsoft release an
update and I'm just missing it?

I purchased "Missing Sync" 'cause I thought it might solve the problem,
but it just uses the Microsoft conduit as-is. I'll send email to them
as well on a business day (see if they have any plans to crack the
Entourage conduit open).

Thanks... And Paul, I used some of your tools in the past and they
worked great; thanks again in case you read this.

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

I just purchased a Treo 650 and I have the same issues as the original
contributor.

This topic transpired in May, and evidently the field compatibility
issue continues to exist as the conduit packaged with Office 2004 lacks
support for the new Palm OS fields (and I can't find an updated Palm
conduit on Microsoft's web site).

I understand the difficulties in keeping up with software; I don't wish
to contribute to that part of the thread as it's sticky at best.

Rather, a simple question: Any updates? Did Microsoft release an
update and I'm just missing it?

No. This is a very big thing - even bigger if somehow the conduit would need
branching code for different versions of the Palm OS.

There's no indication whatsoever as to whether this is something feasible
for MS to do as part of a service update, or if it's so significant a job it
would require a really major upgrade - more likely at the next major
release. If the latter, it will probably be dwarfed by likely efforts they'd
be considering for replacing the whole conduit business. There were reports
from WWDC last June that Apple will be replacing the whole sync mechanism in
Tiger, and that they will be opening their code to all 3rd-parties. i.e.
including MS. I'd guess that MS might be concentrating their efforts there
(but I don't know this for a fact). Since Palm is also moving onwards to
their next OS ("Cobalt" - OS 6), which Mark/Space (the Missing Sync people)
have announced they'll be supporting, I wonder whether it makes too much
sense for MS to devote too much effort towards this passing Palm OS 5. What
would you do if you were they?

I purchased "Missing Sync" 'cause I thought it might solve the problem,
but it just uses the Microsoft conduit as-is.

Correct. And it works just fine (with Palm OS 4 and the same fields and
functions still present in OS 5).

I'll send email to them
as well on a business day (see if they have any plans to crack the
Entourage conduit open).

Again, I wouldn't see that there would be much sense in their spending a lot
of time on their doing that - a temporary solution for a passing state of
affairs when current solutions are adequate for many people in the meantime.

Thanks... And Paul, I used some of your tools in the past and they
worked great; thanks again in case you read this.

And thank you. My scripts seem to fill a gap until both Apple and MS move on
to the next level of "synchronizing everything with everything" post-Tiger.

 

[kbleicher]

Understood that they're moving on to bigger and better.

But the only reason I upgraded from Office X to Office 2004 was to see
if they finally fixed the Palm Conduit which never worked with my
recurring calendar events. I was very happy to see that it indeed got
fixed, but it hardly justify the $200+ microsoft upgrade cost.

So, I'm biased. I understand the biz since in them not doing it, but
on the other hand, office isn't cheap and it seems like they'd do a bit
more to suport such a widely available device. But as you said, they
certainly don't have to, and it's not going to add to their bottom
line, so I guess I should just be happy that it works at all ;-)

Think the new Palm OS will be transferable to newer hardware like the
Treo 650? Or did I just purchase something nearly obsolete (which is
my trend, so I would kinda expect it LOL).
Thanks again for the fast reply!