a general question

[Stephan Laska]

I can't (or maybe won't) say that I love office.
I've used it off and on since the days of DOS, well at least word and excel,
and I've always found some other program that was either easier to use or
more powerful

Now, I am exclusive on office 2003.
yes, I find word / excel exceedingly powerful
(more powerful than I can possibly imagine)

ok, is it just me, or is word / excel just not intuitive to use?

 

[Bob I]

Intuitive is subjective. ;-)

 

[Stephan Laska]

Intuitive is subjective. ;-)

To some extent, I agree. Still, that doesn't answer the question ... ;-)

 

[JoAnn Paules [MVP]]

You didn't state which version you're talking about.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

It answers it well. MS Office is different things to different people..

 

[Bob I]

That's like asking if some people find the colors too bland, or do some
people feel that the sky isn't blue enough. What is the question
supposed to reveal? ;-) For instance, I rarely have to resort to the
"Help", does that make it sufficiently "intuitive"? On the other hand,
people make suggestions for features that are already on the standard
toolbar, what does that mean?

 

[Stephan Laska]

That's like asking if some people find the colors too bland, or do some
people feel that the sky isn't blue enough.

both good questions to ask. Product development people ask them
all the time. You might have noticed the results of this in the
start menu -> settings -> control panel -> display-> appearance -> color
scheme
selections.

What is the question supposed to reveal? ;-)

quite a lot, if one is concerned with designing user interfaces.
There are other reasons also.

For instance, I rarely have to resort to the "Help", does that make it
sufficiently "intuitive"?

depends. You might not need to resort to help for some
other reasons, such as because you are well acquanted
with the program, or you rarely need to do "uncommon"
tasks in word.

On the other hand, people make suggestions for features

that are already on the standard toolbar, what does that mean?

It could mean quite a few different things.

 

[Stephan Laska]

It answers it well.

well, if Bob I was answering for everyone, then yes, I would agree.
Since I believe Bob I is answering for himself, it answers nothing
since I don't know if Bob finds it intuitive.

Do you find it intuitive?

MS Office is different things to different people..

yes, and asking if these people find it intuitive is still a valid question.

 

[Stephan Laska]

You didn't state which version you're talking about.

original post, office 2003

 

[Bob I]

Well, in a nutshell, the question is moot, go look at Office 2007.

 

[JoAnn Paules [MVP]]

I don't see how you can't find 2003 intuitive. There hasn't been much of a
change since the days of DOS. I thought maybe you were talking about 2007. I
would have heartily agreed with you there. I have been quite public in my
opinion of the ribbon interface and that I do not find it intuitive at all.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

 

[Bob I]

JoAnn,
Here is a good explanation of why you find it so.

http://www.uie.com/articles/design_intuitive/

 

[Paul Ballou]

You have to learn the layout of the change in Office 2007 or any program
over time then you will find it more intuitive....

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Office
http://office.microsoft.com/home
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
http://www.ballousgiftshop.com

Life would be easier if we could view the source code

I don't see how you can't find 2003 intuitive. There hasn't been much of a
change since the days of DOS. I thought maybe you were talking about 2007.
I would have heartily agreed with you there. I have been quite public in my
opinion of the ribbon interface and that I do not find it intuitive at all.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

original post, office 2003

 

[Stephan Laska]

I don't see how you can't find 2003 intuitive.

It's intuitive enough when doing simple tasks, but I've found certain tasks
frustratingly difficult to learn, such as getting footers to behave in the
manner
I desire (starting new footers in the middle of a document, getting the page
numbers to display as I desire), centering text vertically on a page, etc.

As I try to do something in word that I haven't done before, I frequently
say "I know it can do this, now where did they hide it and what are
they calling it?"

There hasn't been much of a change since the days of DOS.

maybe not, but I havdn't done quite as much with Word then as I
do now.

 

[JoAnn Paules [MVP]]

That is true and right now I don't have the time or patience to learn
several new programs. (But I still don't like the ribbon.)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

You have to learn the layout of the change in Office 2007 or any program
over time then you will find it more intuitive....

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Office
http://office.microsoft.com/home
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
http://www.ballousgiftshop.com

Life would be easier if we could view the source code

I don't see how you can't find 2003 intuitive. There hasn't been much of a
change since the days of DOS. I thought maybe you were talking about 2007.
I would have heartily agreed with you there. I have been quite public in
my opinion of the ribbon interface and that I do not find it intuitive at
all.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

You didn't state which version you're talking about.

original post, office 2003

 

[Paul Ballou]

You've actually been using it all along instead of a menu and toolbars
occupying the same space now called the ribbon you have tabs with the
clickable icons just like the toolbars have on them....

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Office
http://office.microsoft.com/home
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
http://www.ballousgiftshop.com

Life would be easier if we could view the source code

That is true and right now I don't have the time or patience to learn
several new programs. (But I still don't like the ribbon.)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

You have to learn the layout of the change in Office 2007 or any program
over time then you will find it more intuitive....

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Office
http://office.microsoft.com/home
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
http://www.ballousgiftshop.com

Life would be easier if we could view the source code

I don't see how you can't find 2003 intuitive. There hasn't been much of
a change since the days of DOS. I thought maybe you were talking about
2007. I would have heartily agreed with you there. I have been quite
public in my opinion of the ribbon interface and that I do not find it
intuitive at all.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]




"Stephan Laska" <Ask & maybe I'll Tell> wrote in message


You didn't state which version you're talking about.

original post, office 2003

 

[Stephan Laska]

You have to learn the layout of the change in Office 2007 or any program
over time then you will find it more intuitive....

This doesn't make sense to me. If something is intuitive, then
one doesn't require "learning" how to use it to make it function.
IMHO, you are confusing "becoming familiar with the logic of
the design" with "intuitive design".

 

[Bob I]

"Intuitiveness" is completely relative to the users experience. That's
what makes the question completely pointless and useless noise when
posed as a "voluntary survey".

 

[Stephan Laska]

"Intuitiveness" is completely relative to the users experience. That's
what makes the question completely pointless and useless noise when posed
as a "voluntary survey".

well bob,
I'm sorry you're so convinced that my questioning is pointless.
It does sound like you're half convinced that I just want to
gripe about uSoft, or start a flame war, or something, but
that is just an impression I get. It's also far from my intention, so
instead of assisting me by just answering my question, which
would give me an idea if our difficulties here in the office is
typical or atypical, we engage in a minor debate on
the meanin gof intuitive. ah, well.

In any event, and despite the nice web
page you've offered, Intuitiveness is a measure of functionality
that goes a bit beyond something "completely relative to the
users experience". Intuitivness of design can be used to lessen
the learning curve by placing functions for that thing where
users typically expect to find them, rather than where the
designer thinks it would be... it involves statistics..
perhaps you've heard of that branch of math?
Statistics in this case involves polling people for their
(subjective) opinion.

 

[JoAnn Paules [MVP]]

I'm a visual ands kinetic learner. Commands have been moved and relocated.
It's going to take me time to learn where things are. That's why I hate it
when my husband moves my stuff.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

You've actually been using it all along instead of a menu and toolbars
occupying the same space now called the ribbon you have tabs with the
clickable icons just like the toolbars have on them....

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Office
http://office.microsoft.com/home
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
http://www.ballousgiftshop.com

Life would be easier if we could view the source code

That is true and right now I don't have the time or patience to learn
several new programs. (But I still don't like the ribbon.)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

You have to learn the layout of the change in Office 2007 or any program
over time then you will find it more intuitive....

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Office
http://office.microsoft.com/home
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
http://www.ballousgiftshop.com

Life would be easier if we could view the source code

I don't see how you can't find 2003 intuitive. There hasn't been much of
a change since the days of DOS. I thought maybe you were talking about
2007. I would have heartily agreed with you there. I have been quite
public in my opinion of the ribbon interface and that I do not find it
intuitive at all.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]




"Stephan Laska" <Ask & maybe I'll Tell> wrote in message


You didn't state which version you're talking about.

original post, office 2003