Broken documents

I

Invisible

Hi folks.

Yesterday I had an ugly situation.

The company I work for basically produces almost its entire revenue by
writing reports. (Well, we have to do work to create some information to go
into the reports, but the fact is it's the report that our clients are
paying money for; even if we have the information, no report = no money.)

Unfortunately, we had a problem with a report we urgently needed to finish.
While editing this report, Word would crash every 120 seconds or so.
Obviously, this makes it kind of difficult to get the thing finished!

So, since I'm the entire IT department, I was left sitting at this computer,
with the (understandably annoyed) report writer standing next to me waiting
for some corrective action, and I hadn't got a clue how to fix the problem.
Sadly, this is by no means the first time such events have occurred. At this
point, I really hate Word!!!

Anyway, next time we have a problem with a particular document (and it is
usually one particular document), what is the recommended practice? (In
other words, what little tricks are there that might fix the problem?) We
have Word 97 with SR-2b if that makes any difference.

Yesterday, I tried:
* Deleting the temp files in the same folder as the document.
* Deleting the temp files in C:\TEMP.
* Deleting the above and immediately rebooting.
* Open the document and immediately hit "Save As..." to save under a new
name.
None of this actually had any noticable effect on anything. In the end, I
got out the backup tapes and restored yesterday's version of the document;
as far as I know, this was edited without incident. (In other words, I
didn't get called back to that computer, and I would almost certainly have
heard if there was a problem, given how critical the document was!) Still,
it did mean loosing several hours' work...

The only other trick I'm aware of is saving the document in a different
format, and then converting it back. But our reports include cross-linked
fields and scanned graphics and so forth... I'm not sure how much the
document would be manged by the process (= how long it would take our guys
to put it back again). We're talking about 1,000 page documents here - would
be frighteningly easy to miss something!

I would thoroughly welcome any suggestions as to
a) what will or won't help fix a broken document
b) how we can prevent this stuff happening in the first place!

Thanks.
 
M

Margaret Aldis

In Word 97, your best bet with a corrupt document is probably creating a new
document from the same template, and copy and pasting in all but the last
paragraph marker of the corrupt document. However, some corruptions are
'stored' in section breaks and tables, so you may find you need to copy and
paste in bits to work around the corruption.

Have a look at http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/AppErrors/CorruptDoc.htm for
more.

I don't think anyone is completely 'corruption free' (which is why you
should always keep separate 'snapshot' backups as you work on delivery day!)
and your reports do sound complex, but in my experience it is often
documents that have been worked on by several different people that 'blow
up'. This is sometimes because the documents have been in and out of
different Word versions, but I think it may also be because it increases
inconsistency in methods of formatting. Having good company templates
including macros for tricky importing and formatting can really cut the
number of corruptions you see.
 
I

Invisible

In Word 97, your best bet with a corrupt document is probably creating a
new
document from the same template, and copy and pasting in all but the last
paragraph marker of the corrupt document. However, some corruptions are
'stored' in section breaks and tables, so you may find you need to copy and
paste in bits to work around the corruption.
Click to expand...

As it happens, on this occasion the user was trying to rearrange some tables
when the problem started. (On previous occasions the problem has been other
things as well.)
Have a look at http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/AppErrors/CorruptDoc.htm for
more.
Click to expand...

Interesting & informative...
I don't think anyone is completely 'corruption free' (which is why you
should always keep separate 'snapshot' backups as you work on delivery day!)
and your reports do sound complex, but in my experience it is often
documents that have been worked on by several different people that 'blow
up'. This is sometimes because the documents have been in and out of
different Word versions, but I think it may also be because it increases
inconsistency in methods of formatting. Having good company templates
including macros for tricky importing and formatting can really cut the
number of corruptions you see.
Click to expand...

Teaching users to keep taking backups when they're really just trying to get
their work done is going to be difficult... (You know how it is ;-)

Unfortunately, our business processes are fundamentally based on multiple
people working on the same report documents. At present, almost *everyone*
is using Office 97, all installed from the same CD. (Some people have SR-1a,
a few have SR-2b; the CD includes SR-1a, and I haven't got round to updating
everyone yet.)

Out of interest... is SR-2b the latest availible version? (I know there's a
few security-related updates after SR-2b.)

Is Word 2000 any more stable? (We have Office 2000, but our clients all want
us to use Office 97. Not sure how much of a compatibility problem that might
or might not be...)

Thanks.
 
M

Margaret Aldis

Invisible said:
As it happens, on this occasion the user was trying to rearrange some tables
when the problem started. (On previous occasions the problem has been other
things as well.)
Click to expand...

That figures. If this document has caused trouble in the past, I would
definitely recommend the copy-and-paste-all-but-last-para-marker trick -
it's best to treat these things as a warning.
Teaching users to keep taking backups when they're really just trying to get
their work done is going to be difficult... (You know how it is ;-)
Click to expand...

Yup ;-) Can you at least get them to check the 'Always create a backup copy'
Save option?
Unfortunately, our business processes are fundamentally based on multiple
people working on the same report documents. At present, almost *everyone*
is using Office 97, all installed from the same CD. (Some people have SR-1a,
a few have SR-2b; the CD includes SR-1a, and I haven't got round to updating
everyone yet.)

Out of interest... is SR-2b the latest availible version? (I know there's a
few security-related updates after SR-2b.)

Is Word 2000 any more stable? (We have Office 2000, but our clients all want
us to use Office 97. Not sure how much of a compatibility problem that might
or might not be...)
Click to expand...

With multiple editors, custom templates and toolbars to encourage 'standard
practices' is especially worthwhile. For me, it really did reduce the number
of broken documents (and people) quite dramatically!

I definitely would not mix Word 2000 and Word 97 for documents with lots of
tables - I've seen documents break on multiple round tripping between these
versions, I think because of the reinterpretation of complex table
formatting. I think 97 SR2b is probably as stable as 2000 (by the time of
the 'leap year patch', which was when I moved on, it seemed to incorporate a
lot of things fixed in 2000 anyway). I think my choice would be to stay on
97, but make sure everyone has the updates. Also to keep a watch out for
documents that have been kicking around a long time and so might benefit
from moving to a fresh shell.
 
I

Invisible

As it happens, on this occasion the user was trying to rearrange some
tables

That figures. If this document has caused trouble in the past, I would
definitely recommend the copy-and-paste-all-but-last-para-marker trick -
it's best to treat these things as a warning.
Click to expand...

Well no, this document hasn't caused trouble before because it's never
existed before :)

What I ment was... this isn't the first time Word has done daft things.
Sometimes it locks up at 100% CPU usage. Sometimes Dr Watson pays a visit.
And sometimes it just prints strange things! (We had a molecule diagram, and
whenever you print it on our main printer, the dot in "NaSO4 . H2O" didn't
print. But on every other printer, it DID print...)

AFAIK, most of our report documents are based on template files sent to us
from our clients (or created from scratch). I could always be wrong tho! :-S
Yup ;-) Can you at least get them to check the 'Always create a backup copy'
Save option?
Click to expand...

Would that actually help much? By the time Word has crashed a few times and
you've managed to save a bit of work, probably *both* copies are now
corrupt...
there's

With multiple editors, custom templates and toolbars to encourage 'standard
practices' is especially worthwhile. For me, it really did reduce the number
of broken documents (and people) quite dramatically!
Click to expand...

Well, I don't really know enough about how Word works to start fiddling with
templates too much. (Nor does anyone else who works here really...)
I definitely would not mix Word 2000 and Word 97 for documents with lots of
tables - I've seen documents break on multiple round tripping between these
versions, I think because of the reinterpretation of complex table
formatting.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can imagine...
I think 97 SR2b is probably as stable as 2000 (by the time of
the 'leap year patch', which was when I moved on, it seemed to incorporate a
lot of things fixed in 2000 anyway). I think my choice would be to stay on
97, but make sure everyone has the updates.
Click to expand...

I'm working on it... (At the same time as making sure everyone has SP6 for
NT4, IE6 SP1, Acrobat 5.x, etc.)
Also to keep a watch out for
documents that have been kicking around a long time and so might benefit
from moving to a fresh shell.
Click to expand...

As I say, most documents are created new from templates or from scratch. The
template files are quite old, but everything else is new.

(I overheard a conversation where someone was saying "every time we use
template X, we always have problems..." Sounds like next time we have to use
that one, I should poke it!)

Thanks for the advice anyway..
 
T

TF

Windows 2003 server would help you guys. Win2K3 server stores copies of
previous saves that the user is able 'restore' without need for any IT
Support. All the user has to do is right-click on the document (in Windows
Explorer) and select Properties. One of the new properties is to be able to
select previous versions of the document; rather like Windows XP System
Restore Points only idiot-proof. So you can step back to previous
incarnations very easily.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP
http://www.mvps.org/word/

Invisible said:
That figures. If this document has caused trouble in the past, I would
definitely recommend the copy-and-paste-all-but-last-para-marker trick -
it's best to treat these things as a warning.
Click to expand...

Well no, this document hasn't caused trouble before because it's never
existed before :)

What I ment was... this isn't the first time Word has done daft things.
Sometimes it locks up at 100% CPU usage. Sometimes Dr Watson pays a visit.
And sometimes it just prints strange things! (We had a molecule diagram, and
whenever you print it on our main printer, the dot in "NaSO4 . H2O" didn't
print. But on every other printer, it DID print...)

AFAIK, most of our report documents are based on template files sent to us
from our clients (or created from scratch). I could always be wrong tho! :-S
Yup ;-) Can you at least get them to check the 'Always create a backup copy'
Save option?
Click to expand...

Would that actually help much? By the time Word has crashed a few times and
you've managed to save a bit of work, probably *both* copies are now
corrupt...
there's

With multiple editors, custom templates and toolbars to encourage 'standard
practices' is especially worthwhile. For me, it really did reduce the number
of broken documents (and people) quite dramatically!
Click to expand...

Well, I don't really know enough about how Word works to start fiddling with
templates too much. (Nor does anyone else who works here really...)
I definitely would not mix Word 2000 and Word 97 for documents with lots of
tables - I've seen documents break on multiple round tripping between these
versions, I think because of the reinterpretation of complex table
formatting.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can imagine...
I think 97 SR2b is probably as stable as 2000 (by the time of
the 'leap year patch', which was when I moved on, it seemed to incorporate a
lot of things fixed in 2000 anyway). I think my choice would be to stay on
97, but make sure everyone has the updates.
Click to expand...

I'm working on it... (At the same time as making sure everyone has SP6 for
NT4, IE6 SP1, Acrobat 5.x, etc.)
Also to keep a watch out for
documents that have been kicking around a long time and so might benefit
from moving to a fresh shell.
Click to expand...

As I say, most documents are created new from templates or from scratch. The
template files are quite old, but everything else is new.

(I overheard a conversation where someone was saying "every time we use
template X, we always have problems..." Sounds like next time we have to use
that one, I should poke it!)

Thanks for the advice anyway..
 
I

Invisible

Windows 2003 server would help you guys. Win2K3 server stores copies of
previous saves that the user is able 'restore' without need for any IT
Support. All the user has to do is right-click on the document (in Windows
Explorer) and select Properties. One of the new properties is to be able to
select previous versions of the document; rather like Windows XP System
Restore Points only idiot-proof. So you can step back to previous
incarnations very easily.
Click to expand...

Really? Hmm... that *is* interesting... Wonder how much disk space that eats
up!

(We're planning to move over to Windows 2000 Server shortly - whenever HQ
get their act together - but no plans at all to get 2003.)
 
T

TF

Well I don't suppose my advice would even be considered, but W2003 server
has significant benefits over W2000 server. Disk space isn't so much of a
problem because disk space is cheap: backup though may be a more significant
consideration! However, much of the cost of upgrading is the time it takes
planning, installing and migrating: that cost is pretty much the same
whether they upgrade to either server.

Terry

Invisible said:
Windows 2003 server would help you guys. Win2K3 server stores copies of
previous saves that the user is able 'restore' without need for any IT
Support. All the user has to do is right-click on the document (in Windows
Explorer) and select Properties. One of the new properties is to be able to
select previous versions of the document; rather like Windows XP System
Restore Points only idiot-proof. So you can step back to previous
incarnations very easily.
Click to expand...

Really? Hmm... that *is* interesting... Wonder how much disk space that eats
up!

(We're planning to move over to Windows 2000 Server shortly - whenever HQ
get their act together - but no plans at all to get 2003.)
 
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