can anyone explain how to enter subtasks in Project

[John Rylander]

I'm entirely new to Project 2003 (in fact, I'm using the trial version), but
I'm rather dumbfounded by the (to me) 100% counterintuitive user interface
when it comes to adding new tasks and subtasks.

What I expected (what seemed simply the obvious and proper way to do it):
select a task, then when one adds a new task (via INS, or perhaps Enter, or
an on-screen command button, or a keyboard shortcut), it would either be a
subsequent task at this same level, or a substask of the task currently
selected. Whichever it was, you could switch it to the other with a single
keystroke (e.g., alt-arrow key to indent [subtask] it or unindent,
respectively). Presumably, you could also move items vertically with similar
ease, since that's so critical when setting up a new project.

But instead, and maddeningly, when one hits INS one adds a task BEFORE the
currently selected task. Does MS really think that the way one thinks about
adding tasks is "Ah! Here's a new task I want to be unrelated to and before
the task I've currently thinking about!" rather than "I want to add a task to
[or after] this task"??

Outlining seems to be an exceptionally clumsy afterthought to Project, and
that's unbelievable to me.

One should be able to easily add subtasks, easily move them up and down or
left and right through the hierarchy, etc. But I can find no commands or
keyboard shortcuts to do this.

Instead, it's maddening; I'm currently extremely inclined not to use Project
simply because the basic input and project brainstorming seems unacceptably
clumsy. (It seems this is the feasible way of using it: outline the whole
project on paper or in a text editor first, make sure it's 100% right, then
enter it into Project to track it.)

A part of me can't imagine this is correct--it must be a user problem, not a
program problem. Yet try and search as I might, I can find NO remotely
intuitive or convenient way either to enter or restructure tasks and subtasks.

Help!

 

[JulieS]

Hi John,
Not sure I have an answer to all of your questions - but I can provide some
solace, I hope.
Yes, you are correct, the [Insert] key on the keyboard inserts a task above
the selected task. Sorry - no other options to offer you there.
Indenting tasks using the keyboard - you are *very* close. The keyboard
shortcut is [ALT]+ [SHIFT]+ RIGHT ARROW.
Outdent [ALT]+[SHIFT]+ LEFT ARROW.

Moving tasks about:
Cut [CTRL] + [x] and then
Paste [CTRL]+ [v]
Or you may drag tasks about in the list using the mouse. Select the row
number - keep you mouse over the row number and then drag and drop to your
heart's content.

I would never bother to go to the trouble of creating the task list in
another product and then re-typing in project. Yes Project does have a
learning curve - and it can be steep at times.
You have found a good place to post questions and get help. Also check out
the project mvp site at:
http://www.mvps.org/project for some FAQs and additional insights. You may
also want to take a look at Mike Glen's series of articles on MS Project at
http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.
Julie

I'm entirely new to Project 2003 (in fact, I'm using the trial version), but
I'm rather dumbfounded by the (to me) 100% counterintuitive user interface
when it comes to adding new tasks and subtasks.

What I expected (what seemed simply the obvious and proper way to do it):
select a task, then when one adds a new task (via INS, or perhaps Enter, or
an on-screen command button, or a keyboard shortcut), it would either be a
subsequent task at this same level, or a substask of the task currently
selected. Whichever it was, you could switch it to the other with a single
keystroke (e.g., alt-arrow key to indent [subtask] it or unindent,
respectively). Presumably, you could also move items vertically with similar
ease, since that's so critical when setting up a new project.

But instead, and maddeningly, when one hits INS one adds a task BEFORE the
currently selected task. Does MS really think that the way one thinks about
adding tasks is "Ah! Here's a new task I want to be unrelated to and before
the task I've currently thinking about!" rather than "I want to add a task to
[or after] this task"??

Outlining seems to be an exceptionally clumsy afterthought to Project, and
that's unbelievable to me.

One should be able to easily add subtasks, easily move them up and down or
left and right through the hierarchy, etc. But I can find no commands or
keyboard shortcuts to do this.

Instead, it's maddening; I'm currently extremely inclined not to use Project
simply because the basic input and project brainstorming seems unacceptably
clumsy. (It seems this is the feasible way of using it: outline the whole
project on paper or in a text editor first, make sure it's 100% right, then
enter it into Project to track it.)

A part of me can't imagine this is correct--it must be a user problem, not a
program problem. Yet try and search as I might, I can find NO remotely
intuitive or convenient way either to enter or restructure tasks and subtasks.

Help!

 

[Steve House [MVP]]

This is pretty standard behavior in most applications though, inserting
putting the new stuff at the selected location with the items already there
and following moving down to make room. For example, if you select a row in
Excel and in the menu select "insert row" it appears to put the new row
above the selected row. (It really puts it at the selected row and moves
the rest down.) If you select a group of rows, say 5 of them, and "insert
row", it moves the selected group and following lines down 5 rows to free up
5 blank rows. Same with inserting text in MS Word, it goes in at the
insertion point pushing subsequent text later in the document. Project is
identical in that regard. When you want to insert a task you select the
line where you want it to go and inserting moves whatever is currently in
that line (and everything following) down a notch (or notches if a group of
lines are selected) to make room for the inserted items you're adding.

To move tasks, click on the selector button at the left margin to select the
entire line and if you want to move more than one, drag to select additional
lines. Release the mouse button then click and hold on the selection and
drag it to the desired location. Note, if you move a summary task with
subtasks indented under it, all the subtasks go with it and if you move it
to a position between the subtasks of another summary, the whole group
shifts over one outline level. Or, if you like to use keyboard shortcuts to
move instead of the mouse, select the task to move, do [CTRL][X] to cut,
select the task currently at the position you want the moving task to go,
and do [CTRL][V] to paste, moving the existing task down to make room. Also
remember that indented tasks belong to their parent.

As for indenting and outdenting that is easy to do either with the keyboard
shortcuts or I find the simplest is to click the left or right green arrow
heads on the left-hand end of the formatting toolbar with the desired tasks
selected. The only thing to watch for is to remember that *all* the
subtasks for a summary must follow their summary in a contiguous group. If
I have a summary Sum1 with subtasks A, B, C, D, E indented under it and I
outdent C one level, it becomes a summary itself, SumC, with D and E as its
subtasks while Sum1's subtasks are reduced to only include A & B. If I then
re-indent C, it becomes once again a child of Sum1 while D & E also move
right a level. Now we have Sum1 with children A, B, & SumC and SumC has a
set of sub-sub-tasks D and E indented at the third outline level underneath
it (I could get the same result with the initial configuration and indenting
D & E a second notch, the result being Sum1 on level1, A, B and C on level
2, and D and E on level 3).

Hope this helps - it really does become intuitive very quickly.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

I'm entirely new to Project 2003 (in fact, I'm using the trial version),
but
I'm rather dumbfounded by the (to me) 100% counterintuitive user interface
when it comes to adding new tasks and subtasks.

What I expected (what seemed simply the obvious and proper way to do it):
select a task, then when one adds a new task (via INS, or perhaps Enter,
or
an on-screen command button, or a keyboard shortcut), it would either be a
subsequent task at this same level, or a substask of the task currently
selected. Whichever it was, you could switch it to the other with a
single
keystroke (e.g., alt-arrow key to indent [subtask] it or unindent,
respectively). Presumably, you could also move items vertically with
similar
ease, since that's so critical when setting up a new project.

But instead, and maddeningly, when one hits INS one adds a task BEFORE the
currently selected task. Does MS really think that the way one thinks
about
adding tasks is "Ah! Here's a new task I want to be unrelated to and
before
the task I've currently thinking about!" rather than "I want to add a task
to
[or after] this task"??

Outlining seems to be an exceptionally clumsy afterthought to Project, and
that's unbelievable to me.

One should be able to easily add subtasks, easily move them up and down or
left and right through the hierarchy, etc. But I can find no commands or
keyboard shortcuts to do this.

Instead, it's maddening; I'm currently extremely inclined not to use
Project
simply because the basic input and project brainstorming seems
unacceptably
clumsy. (It seems this is the feasible way of using it: outline the whole
project on paper or in a text editor first, make sure it's 100% right,
then
enter it into Project to track it.)

A part of me can't imagine this is correct--it must be a user problem, not
a
program problem. Yet try and search as I might, I can find NO remotely
intuitive or convenient way either to enter or restructure tasks and
subtasks.

Help!

 

[Nikki]

Steve,
I have the same problem as John and what you explain is just theory-which is
all true. But it doesn't work that way for me at all. I hane finished my
outline-now I see a problem in hiearchy and I try to use the indent/outdent
buttons and they move nothing. So I see what John is saying by does it have
to be 100% correct. There must me something we are doing wrong. I have all
subtasks showing and have checked show summary tasks. Even a simple:
Summary
Sub
The sub won't return so that I can make it a summary?? I figure it is
something I did wrong, but I for the life of me can't figure out what. I
have read all the help info to no avail. Do you have any other ideas?

This is pretty standard behavior in most applications though, inserting
putting the new stuff at the selected location with the items already there
and following moving down to make room. For example, if you select a row in
Excel and in the menu select "insert row" it appears to put the new row
above the selected row. (It really puts it at the selected row and moves
the rest down.) If you select a group of rows, say 5 of them, and "insert
row", it moves the selected group and following lines down 5 rows to free up
5 blank rows. Same with inserting text in MS Word, it goes in at the
insertion point pushing subsequent text later in the document. Project is
identical in that regard. When you want to insert a task you select the
line where you want it to go and inserting moves whatever is currently in
that line (and everything following) down a notch (or notches if a group of
lines are selected) to make room for the inserted items you're adding.

To move tasks, click on the selector button at the left margin to select the
entire line and if you want to move more than one, drag to select additional
lines. Release the mouse button then click and hold on the selection and
drag it to the desired location. Note, if you move a summary task with
subtasks indented under it, all the subtasks go with it and if you move it
to a position between the subtasks of another summary, the whole group
shifts over one outline level. Or, if you like to use keyboard shortcuts to
move instead of the mouse, select the task to move, do [CTRL][X] to cut,
select the task currently at the position you want the moving task to go,
and do [CTRL][V] to paste, moving the existing task down to make room. Also
remember that indented tasks belong to their parent.

As for indenting and outdenting that is easy to do either with the keyboard
shortcuts or I find the simplest is to click the left or right green arrow
heads on the left-hand end of the formatting toolbar with the desired tasks
selected. The only thing to watch for is to remember that *all* the
subtasks for a summary must follow their summary in a contiguous group. If
I have a summary Sum1 with subtasks A, B, C, D, E indented under it and I
outdent C one level, it becomes a summary itself, SumC, with D and E as its
subtasks while Sum1's subtasks are reduced to only include A & B. If I then
re-indent C, it becomes once again a child of Sum1 while D & E also move
right a level. Now we have Sum1 with children A, B, & SumC and SumC has a
set of sub-sub-tasks D and E indented at the third outline level underneath
it (I could get the same result with the initial configuration and indenting
D & E a second notch, the result being Sum1 on level1, A, B and C on level
2, and D and E on level 3).

Hope this helps - it really does become intuitive very quickly.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

I'm entirely new to Project 2003 (in fact, I'm using the trial version),
but
I'm rather dumbfounded by the (to me) 100% counterintuitive user interface
when it comes to adding new tasks and subtasks.

What I expected (what seemed simply the obvious and proper way to do it):
select a task, then when one adds a new task (via INS, or perhaps Enter,
or
an on-screen command button, or a keyboard shortcut), it would either be a
subsequent task at this same level, or a substask of the task currently
selected. Whichever it was, you could switch it to the other with a
single
keystroke (e.g., alt-arrow key to indent [subtask] it or unindent,
respectively). Presumably, you could also move items vertically with
similar
ease, since that's so critical when setting up a new project.

But instead, and maddeningly, when one hits INS one adds a task BEFORE the
currently selected task. Does MS really think that the way one thinks
about
adding tasks is "Ah! Here's a new task I want to be unrelated to and
before
the task I've currently thinking about!" rather than "I want to add a task
to
[or after] this task"??

Outlining seems to be an exceptionally clumsy afterthought to Project, and
that's unbelievable to me.

One should be able to easily add subtasks, easily move them up and down or
left and right through the hierarchy, etc. But I can find no commands or
keyboard shortcuts to do this.

Instead, it's maddening; I'm currently extremely inclined not to use
Project
simply because the basic input and project brainstorming seems
unacceptably
clumsy. (It seems this is the feasible way of using it: outline the whole
project on paper or in a text editor first, make sure it's 100% right,
then
enter it into Project to track it.)

A part of me can't imagine this is correct--it must be a user problem, not
a
program problem. Yet try and search as I might, I can find NO remotely
intuitive or convenient way either to enter or restructure tasks and
subtasks.

Help!

 

[Nikki]

I just saw that BJ said there was an update for this on Microsoft's site-
That cured the problem!!!!
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=834684
If you haven't already figured that out.

 

[Mike Glen]

To add one more point: if you select the top task or summary task so that
there are none above it, if Insert went down, you would be unable to insert
a task above the top task. No, Project inserts above for that reason.

Mike Glen
Project MVP

This is pretty standard behavior in most applications though,
inserting putting the new stuff at the selected location with the
items already there and following moving down to make room. For
example, if you select a row in Excel and in the menu select "insert
row" it appears to put the new row above the selected row. (It
really puts it at the selected row and moves the rest down.) If you
select a group of rows, say 5 of them, and "insert row", it moves the
selected group and following lines down 5 rows to free up 5 blank
rows. Same with inserting text in MS Word, it goes in at the
insertion point pushing subsequent text later in the document. Project is
identical in that regard. When you want to insert a task
you select the line where you want it to go and inserting moves
whatever is currently in that line (and everything following) down a
notch (or notches if a group of lines are selected) to make room for
the inserted items you're adding.
To move tasks, click on the selector button at the left margin to
select the entire line and if you want to move more than one, drag to
select additional lines. Release the mouse button then click and hold
on the selection and drag it to the desired location. Note, if you
move a summary task with subtasks indented under it, all the subtasks
go with it and if you move it to a position between the subtasks of
another summary, the whole group shifts over one outline level. Or,
if you like to use keyboard shortcuts to move instead of the mouse,
select the task to move, do [CTRL][X] to cut, select the task
currently at the position you want the moving task to go, and do
[CTRL][V] to paste, moving the existing task down to make room. Also
remember that indented tasks belong to their parent.
As for indenting and outdenting that is easy to do either with the
keyboard shortcuts or I find the simplest is to click the left or
right green arrow heads on the left-hand end of the formatting
toolbar with the desired tasks selected. The only thing to watch for
is to remember that *all* the subtasks for a summary must follow
their summary in a contiguous group. If I have a summary Sum1 with
subtasks A, B, C, D, E indented under it and I outdent C one level,
it becomes a summary itself, SumC, with D and E as its subtasks while
Sum1's subtasks are reduced to only include A & B. If I then
re-indent C, it becomes once again a child of Sum1 while D & E also
move right a level. Now we have Sum1 with children A, B, & SumC and
SumC has a set of sub-sub-tasks D and E indented at the third outline
level underneath it (I could get the same result with the initial
configuration and indenting D & E a second notch, the result being
Sum1 on level1, A, B and C on level 2, and D and E on level 3).
Hope this helps - it really does become intuitive very quickly.

I'm entirely new to Project 2003 (in fact, I'm using the trial
version), but
I'm rather dumbfounded by the (to me) 100% counterintuitive user
interface when it comes to adding new tasks and subtasks.

What I expected (what seemed simply the obvious and proper way to do
it): select a task, then when one adds a new task (via INS, or
perhaps Enter, or
an on-screen command button, or a keyboard shortcut), it would
either be a subsequent task at this same level, or a substask of the
task currently selected. Whichever it was, you could switch it to
the other with a single
keystroke (e.g., alt-arrow key to indent [subtask] it or unindent,
respectively). Presumably, you could also move items vertically with
similar
ease, since that's so critical when setting up a new project.

But instead, and maddeningly, when one hits INS one adds a task
BEFORE the currently selected task. Does MS really think that the
way one thinks about
adding tasks is "Ah! Here's a new task I want to be unrelated to and
before
the task I've currently thinking about!" rather than "I want to add
a task to
[or after] this task"??

Outlining seems to be an exceptionally clumsy afterthought to
Project, and that's unbelievable to me.

One should be able to easily add subtasks, easily move them up and
down or left and right through the hierarchy, etc. But I can find
no commands or keyboard shortcuts to do this.

Instead, it's maddening; I'm currently extremely inclined not to use
Project
simply because the basic input and project brainstorming seems
unacceptably
clumsy. (It seems this is the feasible way of using it: outline the
whole project on paper or in a text editor first, make sure it's
100% right, then
enter it into Project to track it.)

A part of me can't imagine this is correct--it must be a user
problem, not a
program problem. Yet try and search as I might, I can find NO
remotely intuitive or convenient way either to enter or restructure
tasks and subtasks.

Help!

 

[Sarah]

You can also use the arrows on the Formatting toolbar. Select the task
you want to indent or outdent (or multiple tasks) and click the
appropriate arrow.

Sarah

 

[Steve House [MVP]]

The issue of whether you CAN outdent a subtask is different from what John
was describing. You're likely doing nothing wrong. There was a weird
outdent bug in the initial release of P2003 Standard (but not in Pro) that
was cleared up with a hotfix update a month or so after it was released. I
don't have the MS KnowledgeBase article number handy at the moment but a
quick search at support.microsoft.com will turn it up for you. A quick
download will fix your installation and you'll be fine.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,
I have the same problem as John and what you explain is just theory-which
is
all true. But it doesn't work that way for me at all. I hane finished my
outline-now I see a problem in hiearchy and I try to use the
indent/outdent
buttons and they move nothing. So I see what John is saying by does it
have
to be 100% correct. There must me something we are doing wrong. I have
all
subtasks showing and have checked show summary tasks. Even a simple:
Summary
Sub
The sub won't return so that I can make it a summary?? I figure it is
something I did wrong, but I for the life of me can't figure out what. I
have read all the help info to no avail. Do you have any other ideas?

This is pretty standard behavior in most applications though, inserting
putting the new stuff at the selected location with the items already
there
and following moving down to make room. For example, if you select a row
in
Excel and in the menu select "insert row" it appears to put the new row
above the selected row. (It really puts it at the selected row and moves
the rest down.) If you select a group of rows, say 5 of them, and
"insert
row", it moves the selected group and following lines down 5 rows to free
up
5 blank rows. Same with inserting text in MS Word, it goes in at the
insertion point pushing subsequent text later in the document. Project
is
identical in that regard. When you want to insert a task you select the
line where you want it to go and inserting moves whatever is currently in
that line (and everything following) down a notch (or notches if a group
of
lines are selected) to make room for the inserted items you're adding.

To move tasks, click on the selector button at the left margin to select
the
entire line and if you want to move more than one, drag to select
additional
lines. Release the mouse button then click and hold on the selection and
drag it to the desired location. Note, if you move a summary task with
subtasks indented under it, all the subtasks go with it and if you move
it
to a position between the subtasks of another summary, the whole group
shifts over one outline level. Or, if you like to use keyboard shortcuts
to
move instead of the mouse, select the task to move, do [CTRL][X] to cut,
select the task currently at the position you want the moving task to go,
and do [CTRL][V] to paste, moving the existing task down to make room.
Also
remember that indented tasks belong to their parent.

As for indenting and outdenting that is easy to do either with the
keyboard
shortcuts or I find the simplest is to click the left or right green
arrow
heads on the left-hand end of the formatting toolbar with the desired
tasks
selected. The only thing to watch for is to remember that *all* the
subtasks for a summary must follow their summary in a contiguous group.
If
I have a summary Sum1 with subtasks A, B, C, D, E indented under it and I
outdent C one level, it becomes a summary itself, SumC, with D and E as
its
subtasks while Sum1's subtasks are reduced to only include A & B. If I
then
re-indent C, it becomes once again a child of Sum1 while D & E also move
right a level. Now we have Sum1 with children A, B, & SumC and SumC has
a
set of sub-sub-tasks D and E indented at the third outline level
underneath
it (I could get the same result with the initial configuration and
indenting
D & E a second notch, the result being Sum1 on level1, A, B and C on
level
2, and D and E on level 3).

Hope this helps - it really does become intuitive very quickly.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


message

I'm entirely new to Project 2003 (in fact, I'm using the trial
version),
but
I'm rather dumbfounded by the (to me) 100% counterintuitive user
interface
when it comes to adding new tasks and subtasks.

What I expected (what seemed simply the obvious and proper way to do
it):
select a task, then when one adds a new task (via INS, or perhaps
Enter,
or
an on-screen command button, or a keyboard shortcut), it would either
be a
subsequent task at this same level, or a substask of the task currently
selected. Whichever it was, you could switch it to the other with a
single
keystroke (e.g., alt-arrow key to indent [subtask] it or unindent,
respectively). Presumably, you could also move items vertically with
similar
ease, since that's so critical when setting up a new project.

But instead, and maddeningly, when one hits INS one adds a task BEFORE
the
currently selected task. Does MS really think that the way one thinks
about
adding tasks is "Ah! Here's a new task I want to be unrelated to and
before
the task I've currently thinking about!" rather than "I want to add a
task
to
[or after] this task"??

Outlining seems to be an exceptionally clumsy afterthought to Project,
and
that's unbelievable to me.

One should be able to easily add subtasks, easily move them up and down
or
left and right through the hierarchy, etc. But I can find no commands
or
keyboard shortcuts to do this.

Instead, it's maddening; I'm currently extremely inclined not to use
Project
simply because the basic input and project brainstorming seems
unacceptably
clumsy. (It seems this is the feasible way of using it: outline the
whole
project on paper or in a text editor first, make sure it's 100% right,
then
enter it into Project to track it.)

A part of me can't imagine this is correct--it must be a user problem,
not
a
program problem. Yet try and search as I might, I can find NO remotely
intuitive or convenient way either to enter or restructure tasks and
subtasks.

Help!