Can My Mac Get a Virus / Be Taken Over By Trojan / ... ? -- Strange Emails in Entourage

[jamesmcnee]

Since switching to Mac and using Entourage I haven't given viruses
much thought.

Today my wife received a bunch of spam emails -- stock tips, cheap
drugs, ... the usual. But as she was deleting them she noticed that
one was addressed from her to her.

If that is just a wrinkle the spammer has used she will live with it.
Her fear is -- is there any way the spammer could have gotten into her
entourage address list and be sending stuff to her list using her
address? (or worse, using our computer and DSL connection).

We have a firewall but do leave the computer on for long periods of
time.

I'm running Entourage 2004 for Mac on a G5 iMac with OS X 10.4.10

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Any thoughts?

You're almost certainly seeing externally generated spam. It's very easy
to spoof an email address - I get scores of emails every day that
purport to be from me.

OTOH, there's a remote possibility that you're among the first to see
the first virus for Mac OSX in the wild. Running an anti-virus app that
checks incoming emails couldn't hurt (and could have the salutary effect
that you won't pass on virii to your Windows friends).

 

[Jolly Roger]

OTOH, there's a remote possibility that you're among the first to see
the first virus for Mac OSX in the wild. Running an anti-virus app that
checks incoming emails couldn't hurt (and could have the salutary effect
that you won't pass on virii to your Windows friends).

Running antivirus software will likely not prevent you from getting a
Mac virus, since it sometimes takes antivirus software vendors days to
update their virus definitions to look for new viruses, and the
antivirus software on your computer takes time to download those new
definitions.

I don't believe it is every Mac user's job to prevent Windows users
from getting viruses to begin with. Also it's important to note that
Macs don't automatically forward Windows viruses to Windows users.
Instead, a Mac user would have to consciously forward an email
attachment with a Windows virus in it to a Windows user. That just
doesn't happen often at all in real world use.

If you ask me, until the first one is found, purchasing antivirus
software is a waste of money.

--
Please let me know if you send email to this address so that I can be
sure your email doesn't get eaten by pobox.com's ultra-aggressive SPAM
filter.

Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups:
http://improve-usenet.org/

JR

 

[Ed Kimball]

JR,

I'm not quite as sanguine as you. About once a year, my anti-virus software
(currently Intego Virus Barrier X) catches a Java-based virus.

I suppose one can argue both sides of the question, does that level of
infection warrant the cost of anti-virus software?

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Running antivirus software will likely not prevent you from getting a
Mac virus, since it sometimes takes antivirus software vendors days to
update their virus definitions to look for new viruses, and the
antivirus software on your computer takes time to download those new
definitions.

I don't believe it is every Mac user's job to prevent Windows users
from getting viruses to begin with. Also it's important to note that
Macs don't automatically forward Windows viruses to Windows users.
Instead, a Mac user would have to consciously forward an email
attachment with a Windows virus in it to a Windows user. That just
doesn't happen often at all in real world use.

If you ask me, until the first one is found, purchasing antivirus
software is a waste of money.

I *didn't* ask, but since you expressed an opinion, I'll give you mine.

Your delay argument is really a non-sequitur. Based on that argument,
Windows users shouldn't bother with an anti-virus app either.

I strongly disagree with your statement on responsibility. I may be
immune to certain influenza virii, but I think it's my responsibility to
take reasonable hygienic precautions after coming in contact with
someone who's infected, to prevent passing them on to others.

Don't know about your real world use, but in mine, emails with
attachments are forwarded all the time. So are Word docs generated by
macro-virus infected Mac users.

I don't divide the world into fortunate Mac users and unfortunate
Windows users. Windows users are my friends, my colleagues and my
clients.

That's just my US$0.02.

 

[Jolly Roger]

I'm not quite as sanguine as you. About once a year, my anti-virus software
(currently Intego Virus Barrier X) catches a Java-based virus.

I'll say it again - there are ZERO Mac OS X viruses in the wild.

If your antivirus software reported anything it was a *Windows* virus,
or a false alarm (yep, that does happen a lot).

I suppose one can argue both sides of the question, does that level of
infection warrant the cost of anti-virus software?

You were not infected. You may have had an email you received from
someone that had an attachment that had a *Windows* virus/trojan
embedded in it. That file would do nothing sitting on your Mac system -
it would be harmless.

--
Please let me know if you send email to this address so that I can be
sure your email doesn't get eaten by pobox.com's ultra-aggressive SPAM
filter.

Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups:
http://improve-usenet.org/

JR

 

[Jolly Roger]

I *didn't* ask, but since you expressed an opinion, I'll give you mine.

Your delay argument is really a non-sequitur. Based on that argument,
Windows users shouldn't bother with an anti-virus app either.

True, because even *with* antivirus software, I've seen many Windows
PCs on my corporate network invaded over the years. While our Windows
PCs were down, our Macs kept on chugging. While everyone else in the
office was down for the count, Mac users kept on working. Quite a sight
to see. I don't see how your argument bolsters the posit that Mac
users should purchase antivirus software though. In the past SIX
years, there's been only one sighting of a Mac OS X half-baked virus in
the wild, and it could only spread on *internal* networks and never
propagated into the world.

I strongly disagree with your statement on responsibility. I may be
immune to certain influenza virii, but I think it's my responsibility to
take reasonable hygienic precautions after coming in contact with
someone who's infected, to prevent passing them on to others.

I take it you're one of these people who goes and gets flu shots once a
year? When you pass by someone who is obviously sick on the street, do
you go to your nearest Walgreens and purchase flu medication, or get a
flu shot? How exactly do you prevent passing it on to others?

Don't know about your real world use, but in mine, emails with
attachments are forwarded all the time. So are Word docs generated by
macro-virus infected Mac users.

You know Mac users who forward attachments with Windows viruses on to
others all the time? You know Mac users who forward infected Word
macro viruses on to others?

I work in a very large corporate environment with mostly Windows PC
users, and Mac users sprinkled throughout, and I can't recall the last
time I've seen a Mac user forward an infected file to a Windows user
there. I also have a rather large family, most of which use Windows
PCs, but the ones close to me use Macs. I have yet to see one of my Mac
using family members forward an infected file to anyone.

I don't divide the world into fortunate Mac users and unfortunate
Windows users. Windows users are my friends, my colleagues and my
clients.

In my mind, whether it's friends or enemies doesn't matter. Windows is
susceptible to viruses, so people running *Windows* should protect
*themselves*. It's simply unfair to expect every Mac user to spend $50
or more on antivirus software to protect people who made a different
and more vulnerable choice in computing platforms. Should Mac users
also purchase Windows antivirus software to give out as gifts to
Windows users who cannot afford it? Where do you draw the line?
People should take responsibility for themselves if you ask me.

--
Please let me know if you send email to this address so that I can be
sure your email doesn't get eaten by pobox.com's ultra-aggressive SPAM
filter.

Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups:
http://improve-usenet.org/

JR

 

[Diane]

Today my wife received a bunch of spam emails -- stock tips, cheap
drugs, ... the usual. But as she was deleting them she noticed that
one was addressed from her to her.

This is "spam sent from me". You can set up a rule so that if you send
yourself mail, it won't get caught by your Junk Mail Filter.

These example rules catch the real spam where it appears the mail is from
you and not mail you send yourself. I like the first example. I haven't met
a spammer yet that uses Entourage for a sending client.

Junk Mail where "From is Me"

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/rules/example/rule012.html>

 

[William Smith]

Hi JR!

I must agree with Mr. McGimpsey. Especially after my own experience with
complacency and the AutoStart Worm back in the Mac OS 8 days. My
comments are inline...

True, because even *with* antivirus software, I've seen many Windows PCs
on my corporate network invaded over the years. While our Windows PCs
were down, our Macs kept on chugging. While everyone else in the office
was down for the count, Mac users kept on working. Quite a sight to
see. I don't see how your argument bolsters the posit that Mac users
should purchase antivirus software though. In the past SIX years,
there's been only one sighting of a Mac OS X half-baked virus in the
wild, and it could only spread on *internal* networks and never
propagated into the world.

Rhetorical question: Because a Mac OS X virus has not been found in the
wild are you saying then that Mac OS X will never see viruses of their own?

I take it you're one of these people who goes and gets flu shots once a
year? When you pass by someone who is obviously sick on the street, do
you go to your nearest Walgreens and purchase flu medication, or get a
flu shot? How exactly do you prevent passing it on to others?

Rhetorical question: When is the best time to to get a flu shot? Before
you potentially get the flu or after you definitely have it?

I work in a very large corporate environment with mostly Windows PC
users, and Mac users sprinkled throughout, and I can't recall the last
time I've seen a Mac user forward an infected file to a Windows user
there. I also have a rather large family, most of which use Windows
PCs, but the ones close to me use Macs. I have yet to see one of my Mac
using family members forward an infected file to anyone.

Rhetorical question: Is your own anecdotal evidence proof that others
won't get a Mac virus?

In my mind, whether it's friends or enemies doesn't matter. Windows is
susceptible to viruses, so people running *Windows* should protect
*themselves*. It's simply unfair to expect every Mac user to spend $50
or more on antivirus software to protect people who made a different and
more vulnerable choice in computing platforms. Should Mac users also
purchase Windows antivirus software to give out as gifts to Windows
users who cannot afford it? Where do you draw the line? People should
take responsibility for themselves if you ask me.

Rhetorical question: Who is responsible for birth control? Men or women?

And...

Question: Do you always know when you're infected?

Question: Will there ever be a Mac OS X virus? If so, when?



--

bill

William M. Smith, Microsoft Interop MVP - Mac/Windows
Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>

 

[Jolly Roger]

Rhetorical question: Because a Mac OS X virus has not been found in the
wild are you saying then that Mac OS X will never see viruses of their
own?

Nobody who knows anything about computer security would make such a
statement - me included. Were you expecting me to answer differently?

Rhetorical question back at you: If corporate-strength antivirus
software can't prevent Windows viruses from taking a large corporation
down, how can it prevent Mac users from getting the first Mac virus?

Rhetorical question: When is the best time to to get a flu shot? Before
you potentially get the flu or after you definitely have it?

In my opinion? Neither. Never is the best time to get a flue shot. I
think we over medicate these days and there are as many disadvantages
to flu vaccinations as there are advantages.

I'm sure that's not the answer you were looking for - but I'm not the
one who started that analogy. ; )

Rhetorical question: Is your own anecdotal evidence proof that others
won't get a Mac virus?

The topic was about Mac users forwarding Windows viruses on to Windows
users. But no, anecdotal evidence is not proof.

Rhetorical question: Who is responsible for birth control? Men or women?

You tell me. Also, explain how this translates to Mac and Windows
users with Windows viruses.

And...

Question: Do you always know when you're infected?

Question: Have you ever met someone who got the flu even though they
had the flu shot that year? I have.

Question: Will there ever be a Mac OS X virus? If so, when?

Question: What exactly are you trying to prove by asking questions you
know cannot be answered?

This is kind of boring. I require more stimulus, or I will be forced
to end this conversation.

--
Please let me know if you send email to this address so that I can be
sure your email doesn't get eaten by pobox.com's ultra-aggressive SPAM
filter.

Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups:
http://improve-usenet.org/

JR

 

[Ed Kimball]

Let ME say it again - the virus caught by my AV software was a Java virus,
which is platform-agnostic! There are also MS Office macro viruses in the
wild, and if not caught they infect Office users on Mac just as they can on
Windows.

You're right about one thing: I wasn't infected -- because my anti-virus
prevented the

 

[Jolly Roger]

Let ME say it again - the virus caught by my AV software was a Java virus,
which is platform-agnostic!

Uh-huh. And what makes you think this "Java virus" would run on your
Mac without your knowledge?

There are also MS Office macro viruses in the
wild, and if not caught they infect Office users on Mac just as they can on
Windows.

No, not exactly. Macro viruses are able to do much, much more damage to
Windows users than Mac users, because:

a. Mac Office warns before runnign any macro in the default configuration
b. Mac Office doesn't contain all that hairy VB stuff in the default
install configuration
c. even if the user went out of their way to install VB crap in Mac
Office, it's severely limited in functionality so it's likely most
viruses would die upon running

The fact is in most cases the macro virus just sits there doing nothing
at all on Macs.

You're right about one thing: I wasn't infected -- because my anti-virus
prevented the

You probably wouldn't have been infected anyway because most "Java
viruses" don't execute on Macs anyway. Which "Java virus" was this in
particular?

--
Please let me know if you send email to this address so that I can be
sure your email doesn't get eaten by pobox.com's ultra-aggressive SPAM
filter.

Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups:
http://improve-usenet.org/

JR

 

[Ed Kimball]

Here's evidence of malware in the wild that affects Mac users:
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&arti
cleId=9042200&source=NLT_MAC&nlid=62

Admittedly the macro does not delete files or otherwise cripple the
computer, but making Word unusable would be a real problem for those of us
who use it a lot.

BTW, the reason I didn't answer your question about the virus is that it
happened so long ago, I don't remember the name of the virus.