Cannot Style WSS Site

M

mark

http://sbrenjoy.bizland.com/frontpage/themes/newthemes.html#Granular

The link above describes how vbs can manipulate styles, and makes me wonder
if my virtual SharePoint host is manipulating my design by eliminating all
FrontPage style capability. My host is Front Pages Web Hosting, and I thought
by its name and Microsoft lables everywhere that it would support the
FrontPage product on its SharePoint servers.

One of my sites is http://www.mountainclubs.bc.ca and services about 5,000
registered users. Due to ongoing problems fitting design to organizational
requests, the site is none too popular. The situation is that Front Pages Web
Hosting has questioned me for months about using FrontPage Theme
customization. Beginning last week, any attempt I make to customize a theme
is completely ignored. In fact, not only are theme changes undone, but all
new related web part page content is deleted along with the theme change!

FWHN refers to my theme work as their "project". Here's how my theme
"project" had to progress.
1. Initial success was had simply creating/editing a user defined style with
www.mountainclubs.bc.ca open in FrontPage. This is when techniical staff at
FWHN advised me that I was going to be made a "project". This style technique
was disabled by the server within two months.
2. Next, I created theme sites on my local disc and applied those to
www.mountainclubs.bc.ca with fair results. Initially, it was possible to
effect change using User Defined styles, but eventually my "project" status
reduced effective design to styling only HTML Tags styles. And then that was
impossible.
3. In the final stage, I was making theme changes only when they were
effected on my hard disc and saved as a unique theme name, and then the new
theme was applied to my site pages. Although beginning last week, it seems
that FWHN is disabling even this basic theme management. With the noted
destruction of site tect and image content.

Naturally, servicing 5,000 people my design response to legitimate requests
was initially extensive. Now it appears that SharePoint is being made into a
single style "template". Is my "project" status a universal woe?

How much of the decay in FrontPage design functionality is related to
whatever FWHN is attempting to accomplish with its "project", and how much is
related to problems with FrontPage 2003? FWHN tells me they have to continue
their "project" because "you are making life difficult for us".

Is FrontPage really causing too many problems for servers? FrontPage 2003 is
the only Office 2003 product without any significant (or specific) product
updates since its release 3 years ago. Is a solution for virtual SharePoint
accounts on the way. Incidentally, I left bCentral.com SharePoint hosting
months ago to escape even worse theme problems.

My hope is that we will all get back the ability to use FontPage to style
our SharePoint sites. This is a corporate imperative. My hope is that servers
will not be able to make any customer into a "project" to attack FrontPage
functionality. My fear is that Microsoft will adopt the FWHN project
directions and remove themes and styles from the FrontPage functionality for
SharePoint design. As Javascript is already disabled on the Tools, Page
Options, Authoring tab when SharePoint is selected, this would constitute a
major deprecation of an essentially magnificent web design tool.

Is there a safe and secure way to style sharePoint sites using FrontPage
2003 without server interference?

((this article is duplicated in the FrontPage Server Extensions forum))
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

If you are being blocked from using / changing themes on a WSS server
- the host does not have the roles set correctly
(or you do not have Web Designer or Administrator rights)
- http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/wss/2/all/adminguide/en-us/stsf01.mspx?mfr=true
Also see
http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| http://sbrenjoy.bizland.com/frontpage/themes/newthemes.html#Granular
|
| The link above describes how vbs can manipulate styles, and makes me wonder
| if my virtual SharePoint host is manipulating my design by eliminating all
| FrontPage style capability. My host is Front Pages Web Hosting, and I thought
| by its name and Microsoft lables everywhere that it would support the
| FrontPage product on its SharePoint servers.
|
| One of my sites is http://www.mountainclubs.bc.ca and services about 5,000
| registered users. Due to ongoing problems fitting design to organizational
| requests, the site is none too popular. The situation is that Front Pages Web
| Hosting has questioned me for months about using FrontPage Theme
| customization. Beginning last week, any attempt I make to customize a theme
| is completely ignored. In fact, not only are theme changes undone, but all
| new related web part page content is deleted along with the theme change!
|
| FWHN refers to my theme work as their "project". Here's how my theme
| "project" had to progress.
| 1. Initial success was had simply creating/editing a user defined style with
| www.mountainclubs.bc.ca open in FrontPage. This is when techniical staff at
| FWHN advised me that I was going to be made a "project". This style technique
| was disabled by the server within two months.
| 2. Next, I created theme sites on my local disc and applied those to
| www.mountainclubs.bc.ca with fair results. Initially, it was possible to
| effect change using User Defined styles, but eventually my "project" status
| reduced effective design to styling only HTML Tags styles. And then that was
| impossible.
| 3. In the final stage, I was making theme changes only when they were
| effected on my hard disc and saved as a unique theme name, and then the new
| theme was applied to my site pages. Although beginning last week, it seems
| that FWHN is disabling even this basic theme management. With the noted
| destruction of site tect and image content.
|
| Naturally, servicing 5,000 people my design response to legitimate requests
| was initially extensive. Now it appears that SharePoint is being made into a
| single style "template". Is my "project" status a universal woe?
|
| How much of the decay in FrontPage design functionality is related to
| whatever FWHN is attempting to accomplish with its "project", and how much is
| related to problems with FrontPage 2003? FWHN tells me they have to continue
| their "project" because "you are making life difficult for us".
|
| Is FrontPage really causing too many problems for servers? FrontPage 2003 is
| the only Office 2003 product without any significant (or specific) product
| updates since its release 3 years ago. Is a solution for virtual SharePoint
| accounts on the way. Incidentally, I left bCentral.com SharePoint hosting
| months ago to escape even worse theme problems.
|
| My hope is that we will all get back the ability to use FontPage to style
| our SharePoint sites. This is a corporate imperative. My hope is that servers
| will not be able to make any customer into a "project" to attack FrontPage
| functionality. My fear is that Microsoft will adopt the FWHN project
| directions and remove themes and styles from the FrontPage functionality for
| SharePoint design. As Javascript is already disabled on the Tools, Page
| Options, Authoring tab when SharePoint is selected, this would constitute a
| major deprecation of an essentially magnificent web design tool.
|
| Is there a safe and secure way to style sharePoint sites using FrontPage
| 2003 without server interference?
|
| ((this article is duplicated in the FrontPage Server Extensions forum))
 
M

mark

Stefan B Rusynko,

You have not answered my question. Its not that the host has the roles set
wrong. The host is deliberately tracking my styling efforts and resetting
roles to block the methods I am using to style my sites using FrontPage 2003!

My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality?

I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint Services sites
using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS.
Everytime I get something working, my host disables my code and the method I
used to apply the style to the site. Kirk Duanes at Front Pages Web Hosting
tells me he has to do this beacuse I am on a "virtual shared server" and I
"could wreck everbody else's site". He refuses to explain this, telling me I
am stupid.

I am a web designer, not a secretary. When I set proper class and ID
attributes something or someone is deleting or moving my attributes to other
tables and objects and otherwise making a mess of my pages whike I am
working. Every 5-10 minutes my coding is attacked. When i rewrite a style
sheet and apply the changes, then an hour to several months later the text
book method I used to write and save the style sheet is blocked and my site
is messed up. I keep asking myself, why would a Microsoft recommended host be
doing this?

Is FWHN moving on to Expressions? So I check out Expressions Web Designer on
http://mountainclubs.ca and note that after one or two logins my login is
permanently fried, even after I uninstall Expressions and return to FWHN's
butchered FrontPage.

My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality? Perhaps some code that conceals
the site from style perverts, so that the world I service can enjoy site
design the way FrontPage is designed to deliver it.

Regs, mark

Stefan B Rusynko said:
If you are being blocked from using / changing themes on a WSS server
- the host does not have the roles set correctly
(or you do not have Web Designer or Administrator rights)
- http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/wss/2/all/adminguide/en-us/stsf01.mspx?mfr=true
Also see
http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| http://sbrenjoy.bizland.com/frontpage/themes/newthemes.html#Granular
|
| The link above describes how vbs can manipulate styles, and makes me wonder
| if my virtual SharePoint host is manipulating my design by eliminating all
| FrontPage style capability. My host is Front Pages Web Hosting, and I thought
| by its name and Microsoft lables everywhere that it would support the
| FrontPage product on its SharePoint servers.
|
| One of my sites is http://www.mountainclubs.bc.ca and services about 5,000
| registered users. Due to ongoing problems fitting design to organizational
| requests, the site is none too popular. The situation is that Front Pages Web
| Hosting has questioned me for months about using FrontPage Theme
| customization. Beginning last week, any attempt I make to customize a theme
| is completely ignored. In fact, not only are theme changes undone, but all
| new related web part page content is deleted along with the theme change!
|
| FWHN refers to my theme work as their "project". Here's how my theme
| "project" had to progress.
| 1. Initial success was had simply creating/editing a user defined style with
| www.mountainclubs.bc.ca open in FrontPage. This is when techniical staff at
| FWHN advised me that I was going to be made a "project". This style technique
| was disabled by the server within two months.
| 2. Next, I created theme sites on my local disc and applied those to
| www.mountainclubs.bc.ca with fair results. Initially, it was possible to
| effect change using User Defined styles, but eventually my "project" status
| reduced effective design to styling only HTML Tags styles. And then that was
| impossible.
| 3. In the final stage, I was making theme changes only when they were
| effected on my hard disc and saved as a unique theme name, and then the new
| theme was applied to my site pages. Although beginning last week, it seems
| that FWHN is disabling even this basic theme management. With the noted
| destruction of site tect and image content.
|
| Naturally, servicing 5,000 people my design response to legitimate requests
| was initially extensive. Now it appears that SharePoint is being made into a
| single style "template". Is my "project" status a universal woe?
|
| How much of the decay in FrontPage design functionality is related to
| whatever FWHN is attempting to accomplish with its "project", and how much is
| related to problems with FrontPage 2003? FWHN tells me they have to continue
| their "project" because "you are making life difficult for us".
|
| Is FrontPage really causing too many problems for servers? FrontPage 2003 is
| the only Office 2003 product without any significant (or specific) product
| updates since its release 3 years ago. Is a solution for virtual SharePoint
| accounts on the way. Incidentally, I left bCentral.com SharePoint hosting
| months ago to escape even worse theme problems.
|
| My hope is that we will all get back the ability to use FontPage to style
| our SharePoint sites. This is a corporate imperative. My hope is that servers
| will not be able to make any customer into a "project" to attack FrontPage
| functionality. My fear is that Microsoft will adopt the FWHN project
| directions and remove themes and styles from the FrontPage functionality for
| SharePoint design. As Javascript is already disabled on the Tools, Page
| Options, Authoring tab when SharePoint is selected, this would constitute a
| major deprecation of an essentially magnificent web design tool.
|
| Is there a safe and secure way to style sharePoint sites using FrontPage
| 2003 without server interference?
|
| ((this article is duplicated in the FrontPage Server Extensions forum))
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

You can not modify the server based version of Ows.css
- it affects all WSS users on the server
- your host is not predatory
(he is correctly protecting All users on the site)

I have no idea what you mean by "I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint Services sites
using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS"

The correct way for you to apply a customized equivalent of OWS.css styles just for your WSS site is for you to create a local copy
of the style sheet in your site and just create a style sheet link to it for all your pages
- As explained in say http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;825495
- and using the guide at http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| Stefan B Rusynko,
|
| You have not answered my question. Its not that the host has the roles set
| wrong. The host is deliberately tracking my styling efforts and resetting
| roles to block the methods I am using to style my sites using FrontPage 2003!
|
| My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
| obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality?
|
| I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint Services sites
| using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS.
| Everytime I get something working, my host disables my code and the method I
| used to apply the style to the site. Kirk Duanes at Front Pages Web Hosting
| tells me he has to do this beacuse I am on a "virtual shared server" and I
| "could wreck everbody else's site". He refuses to explain this, telling me I
| am stupid.
|
| I am a web designer, not a secretary. When I set proper class and ID
| attributes something or someone is deleting or moving my attributes to other
| tables and objects and otherwise making a mess of my pages whike I am
| working. Every 5-10 minutes my coding is attacked. When i rewrite a style
| sheet and apply the changes, then an hour to several months later the text
| book method I used to write and save the style sheet is blocked and my site
| is messed up. I keep asking myself, why would a Microsoft recommended host be
| doing this?
|
| Is FWHN moving on to Expressions? So I check out Expressions Web Designer on
| http://mountainclubs.ca and note that after one or two logins my login is
| permanently fried, even after I uninstall Expressions and return to FWHN's
| butchered FrontPage.
|
| My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
| obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality? Perhaps some code that conceals
| the site from style perverts, so that the world I service can enjoy site
| design the way FrontPage is designed to deliver it.
|
| Regs, mark
|
| "Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:
|
| > If you are being blocked from using / changing themes on a WSS server
| > - the host does not have the roles set correctly
| > (or you do not have Web Designer or Administrator rights)
| > - http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/wss/2/all/adminguide/en-us/stsf01.mspx?mfr=true
| > Also see
| > http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | http://sbrenjoy.bizland.com/frontpage/themes/newthemes.html#Granular
| > |
| > | The link above describes how vbs can manipulate styles, and makes me wonder
| > | if my virtual SharePoint host is manipulating my design by eliminating all
| > | FrontPage style capability. My host is Front Pages Web Hosting, and I thought
| > | by its name and Microsoft lables everywhere that it would support the
| > | FrontPage product on its SharePoint servers.
| > |
| > | One of my sites is http://www.mountainclubs.bc.ca and services about 5,000
| > | registered users. Due to ongoing problems fitting design to organizational
| > | requests, the site is none too popular. The situation is that Front Pages Web
| > | Hosting has questioned me for months about using FrontPage Theme
| > | customization. Beginning last week, any attempt I make to customize a theme
| > | is completely ignored. In fact, not only are theme changes undone, but all
| > | new related web part page content is deleted along with the theme change!
| > |
| > | FWHN refers to my theme work as their "project". Here's how my theme
| > | "project" had to progress.
| > | 1. Initial success was had simply creating/editing a user defined style with
| > | www.mountainclubs.bc.ca open in FrontPage. This is when techniical staff at
| > | FWHN advised me that I was going to be made a "project". This style technique
| > | was disabled by the server within two months.
| > | 2. Next, I created theme sites on my local disc and applied those to
| > | www.mountainclubs.bc.ca with fair results. Initially, it was possible to
| > | effect change using User Defined styles, but eventually my "project" status
| > | reduced effective design to styling only HTML Tags styles. And then that was
| > | impossible.
| > | 3. In the final stage, I was making theme changes only when they were
| > | effected on my hard disc and saved as a unique theme name, and then the new
| > | theme was applied to my site pages. Although beginning last week, it seems
| > | that FWHN is disabling even this basic theme management. With the noted
| > | destruction of site tect and image content.
| > |
| > | Naturally, servicing 5,000 people my design response to legitimate requests
| > | was initially extensive. Now it appears that SharePoint is being made into a
| > | single style "template". Is my "project" status a universal woe?
| > |
| > | How much of the decay in FrontPage design functionality is related to
| > | whatever FWHN is attempting to accomplish with its "project", and how much is
| > | related to problems with FrontPage 2003? FWHN tells me they have to continue
| > | their "project" because "you are making life difficult for us".
| > |
| > | Is FrontPage really causing too many problems for servers? FrontPage 2003 is
| > | the only Office 2003 product without any significant (or specific) product
| > | updates since its release 3 years ago. Is a solution for virtual SharePoint
| > | accounts on the way. Incidentally, I left bCentral.com SharePoint hosting
| > | months ago to escape even worse theme problems.
| > |
| > | My hope is that we will all get back the ability to use FontPage to style
| > | our SharePoint sites. This is a corporate imperative. My hope is that servers
| > | will not be able to make any customer into a "project" to attack FrontPage
| > | functionality. My fear is that Microsoft will adopt the FWHN project
| > | directions and remove themes and styles from the FrontPage functionality for
| > | SharePoint design. As Javascript is already disabled on the Tools, Page
| > | Options, Authoring tab when SharePoint is selected, this would constitute a
| > | major deprecation of an essentially magnificent web design tool.
| > |
| > | Is there a safe and secure way to style sharePoint sites using FrontPage
| > | 2003 without server interference?
| > |
| > | ((this article is duplicated in the FrontPage Server Extensions forum))
| >
| >
| >
 
M

mark

Thank you for your reply. Again, you are not reading my posts very carefully.
Did you ask me to let you know if you were rather obtuse?

What I was hoping for was a reply from you that went into serious
consideration of exactly what can be accomplished, rather than vague
reference to methods that are suspect at best.
We need to know things like where has Microsoft clearly documented the way
to safely manipulate tables on a shared server WSS account, beginning with a
list of the styles and tables used and a picture showing the various page
layers. For now, can you assist me with understanding more about SharePoint
potentials in the shared server market. I am interested in the shared account
environment becasue the vast majority of SharePoint accounts are on shared
servers. Office, SharePoint and the whole kit and kaboodle are going that way.

For example, how can we get around the V2 lazy server syndrome? It is with
good reason that the WSS servers simply ignore any style sheets put up on
shared accounts and use the portal servers ows.css. Remember that the WSS
portal can be configured to "ignore any other styles" with a single click.
This option used to appear on the step 3 page of the server setup. It is a
lazy boy way to avoid configuring the server cache for WSS and is documented
as such. I remember once Kirk kindly configured my server, but forgot to
disable the switch, then remembered too late he had to configure this
improvement for each account on my server, restore certain backups and so on.
Oh gawd! SharePoint V2's ows.css is designed to allow "easy" style
restriction. I think it would be useful if Microsoft totally disabled this
easy switch where the server is deploying to a shared hosting environment. If
anyone edits ows.css this is not a problem. The server should by default
reset itself and its templates every half hour. The portal cache should
isolate each shared account in a seperate directory so when the ows.css
resets, then each shared account's styling is not screwed. Only problem is,
servers DO NOT WANT to take 15 minutes to configure the cache properly for
each account unless they are providing a dedicated service. Lazy server
policy, Stephen, is going to make your referals to
sharepointcustomization.com a trip into nonsense unitil that damn "ignore"
switch is eliminated. Is there a real (cost attractive) solution? Each shared
account needs its own "virtual style sheet interface" in an external
environment. Well, wadda ya know! The upcoming version of SharePoint does
just that. For now, any server host's shared WSS must also implement style
restrictions. This is because the v2 portal server will damage ows.css unless
the "ignore" switch is used with so many lazy boys out there. Okay? I
understand where you are coming from Stephen. Now try and understand where I
am coming from...

PLEASE READ what I have to say below.

As I noted previously, when I create my own themes locally and apply them to
my WSS sites, the formatting I want remains. For a period of time, but is
always corruped by the server even though the personal theme is not
endangering ows.css, the lazy boy policy is in effect. Corruption usually
begins after a few days with pages appearing quite messed up after several
months. This corruption progresses with equal speed on sites being
continually authored and on sites that are left to their own devices. Each
site demonstrates the corruption in entirely unique ways. Don't ask me why.

My WSS Host has provided the staus quo collection of Microsoft prepared
theme alternatives and these can be applied without corruption. On my host
(FWHN) certain packages built into FrontPage won't work because the techs
have been more interested in enabling themes than packages. Note that some
so-called templates downloaded from Microsoft (like the Legal Document Review
Template) actually setup like packages on the server and will be corrupted
until the techies unglue their asses. However, most of the templates from
Microsoft work fine.

Thus far the only practical way to respond to customer requests for changed
site appearance is to style page elements individually (page by page) with a
style longevity of a few weeks. These isolated style provisions are menacing
to the portal as it expects no styling outside ows.css. Like the personal
themes. they gradually decay.

However, if a thicket is turned into a template and copied around the site
with its "individual" style provisions the crap hits the fan. Curiously, what
you get is not a revision to the ows.css settings. Nor do you get any
immediate adjustment of the style provision (unless Kirk has been playing the
predator, and manually restircts your sites use of a fFrontPage style
component on the individually styled page, like, say, interactive button
ms-jewel, etc, lol). What you get is an adhoc corruption of a global style
class. For example, where i manually adjust default body font on a page to
one size less than the ows.css setting, the entire site's default body font
changes to Arial Black 14 pts bold. This change to site style is permanent.
It even crawls through the Net axis into windows XP to pollute other
unrealted sites on my local machines. Kirk reports that there has been
absolutely no change to the ows.css and "no indication of anything amiss". No
virus or worm here; a revision of the local Net framework. To repair, please
reboot and reinstall disc, windows, and Office. Half an hour later, exactly
the same symptom.

As long as the WSS site retains the orginal tables (with style and class
ID's in tact), the page can be adjusted by reshaping tables. That is as far
as you can safely go on a shared lazy boy server. PLEASE! No more sharepoint
customization.com nonsense. Get serious and help us out with maintaining the
static, I mean really STATIC ows.css style provisions while satisfying
customer requests for customization.

There is far more going on than any WSS user like myself can comprehend.
The way that Microsoft has cofigured WSS around ows.css generally disables
any safe and attractive styling with FrontPage on a shared server account.
However, customers will never stop requesting changes in page appearance. And
most customers cannot afford a dedicated server.

SharePoint in its current V2 incarnation is as useful in terms of design as
an Interact receipt. Thankfully it borrows some design features based on
tradtitional website design, like color (though it is unwise to change any
colors supplied by templates. Why in God's name Microsoft introduced the
"ignore" switch or enabled FrontPage access to any server hosting a shared
ows.css is a mystery to me. But that is where we are!~

Stephen, you should know that I am pushing the limits of the sharePoint
design container because there is always something new to check out. Your
referencing me to impossible solutions is indicative of experience
contracting portal adaptation. My conclusions are based on numerous tests in
a labile WSS shared server account. Where balanced user input is requested, I
offer the following for any Studio 9 readers and contributors. In addition to
the above consideration of a useful end to the lazy boy switch.

While ShjarePoint version 3 offers to remove much of the obvious style
stagnation included in version 2, the upcoming Expressions Web Designer is
challenging Dream Weaver with a superior style manipulation interface. Some
consideration should be given to enabling market centered style capabilities
for the shared server package. This would help designers like me to step
customers through cost relevant improvemnts in appearance that avoid jumps
from a $15 shared account to a $150 dedicated setup. This would help to
corner the numerically superior mass of low end users. This would also
greatly satisfy captain Kirk!

Conclusion
Our primary host technician is "PREADATORY" by his own admission. Predation
consists too often of incidental blocks of non-threatening page style such as
interactive buttons. This interference is way out to lunch. Most of the
boundaries I explore are not implementing any forced change to the ows.css
"total environment" as it is called. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, unless something
unexplored appears, and that is now not only unlikely but impossible, I am
engaging labile frontpage styling of individual pages to satisfy customers.

When I began my explorations, FWHN had not even implemented the second
incarnation of the WSS resource kit, so Kirk may have been somewhat rocketed
out of his seat. I felt justified jolting him, having ID'd him as a lazy boy.
Sorry. I had to walk Kirk through server recovery using the 4-clicks method
[lol]. I would go elsewhere if Kirk was not lazy. Kirk is diligently
considering how style-ability (if you will) can be packaged in the host
market. As noted, the vast majority of SharePoint users need coaxing to
transcend cost-effective basics included with the shared server environment.
It seems Microsoft is up to the challenge of extending the SharePoint
product. Can you dig that?

Why do you never go there, here in this place? And when will the shared
server designers like me get their own dedicated forum from Microsoft, here
in this "knowledge" place?

"Stefan B Rusynko" bellowed:

You can not modify the server based version of Ows.css
- it affects all WSS users on the server
- your host is not predatory
(he is correctly protecting All users on the site)

I have no idea what you mean by "I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint Services sites
using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS"

The correct way for you to apply a customized equivalent of OWS.css styles just for your WSS site is for you to create a local copy
of the style sheet in your site and just create a style sheet link to it for all your pages
- As explained in say http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;825495
- and using the guide at http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| Stefan B Rusynko,
|
| You have not answered my question. Its not that the host has the roles set
| wrong. The host is deliberately tracking my styling efforts and resetting
| roles to block the methods I am using to style my sites using FrontPage 2003!
|
| My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
| obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality?
|
| I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint Services sites
| using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS.
| Everytime I get something working, my host disables my code and the method I
| used to apply the style to the site. Kirk Duanes at Front Pages Web Hosting
| tells me he has to do this beacuse I am on a "virtual shared server" and I
| "could wreck everbody else's site". He refuses to explain this, telling me I
| am stupid.
|
| I am a web designer, not a secretary. When I set proper class and ID
| attributes something or someone is deleting or moving my attributes to other
| tables and objects and otherwise making a mess of my pages whike I am
| working. Every 5-10 minutes my coding is attacked. When i rewrite a style
| sheet and apply the changes, then an hour to several months later the text
| book method I used to write and save the style sheet is blocked and my site
| is messed up. I keep asking myself, why would a Microsoft recommended host be
| doing this?
|
| Is FWHN moving on to Expressions? So I check out Expressions Web Designer on
| http://mountainclubs.ca and note that after one or two logins my login is
| permanently fried, even after I uninstall Expressions and return to FWHN's
| butchered FrontPage.
|
| My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
| obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality? Perhaps some code that conceals
| the site from style perverts, so that the world I service can enjoy site
| design the way FrontPage is designed to deliver it.
|
| Regs, mark
|
| "Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:
|
| > If you are being blocked from using / changing themes on a WSS server
| > - the host does not have the roles set correctly
| > (or you do not have Web Designer or Administrator rights)
| > - http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/wss/2/all/adminguide/en-us/stsf01.mspx?mfr=true
| > Also see
| > http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | http://sbrenjoy.bizland.com/frontpage/themes/newthemes.html#Granular
| > |
| > | The link above describes how vbs can manipulate styles, and makes me wonder
| > | if my virtual SharePoint host is manipulating my design by eliminating all
| > | FrontPage style capability. My host is Front Pages Web Hosting, and I thought
| > | by its name and Microsoft lables everywhere that it would support the
| > | FrontPage product on its SharePoint servers.
| > |
| > | One of my sites is http://www.mountainclubs.bc.ca and services about 5,000
| > | registered users. Due to ongoing problems fitting design to organizational
| > | requests, the site is none too popular. The situation is that Front Pages Web
| > | Hosting has questioned me for months about using FrontPage Theme
| > | customization. Beginning last week, any attempt I make to customize a theme
| > | is completely ignored. In fact, not only are theme changes undone, but all
| > | new related web part page content is deleted along with the theme change!
| > |
| > | FWHN refers to my theme work as their "project". Here's how my theme
| > | "project" had to progress.
| > | 1. Initial success was had simply creating/editing a user defined style with
| > | www.mountainclubs.bc.ca open in FrontPage. This is when techniical staff at
| > | FWHN advised me that I was going to be made a "project". This style technique
| > | was disabled by the server within two months.
| > | 2. Next, I created theme sites on my local disc and applied those to
| > | www.mountainclubs.bc.ca with fair results. Initially, it was possible to
| > | effect change using User Defined styles, but eventually my "project" status
| > | reduced effective design to styling only HTML Tags styles. And then that was
| > | impossible.
| > | 3. In the final stage, I was making theme changes only when they were
| > | effected on my hard disc and saved as a unique theme name, and then the new
| > | theme was applied to my site pages. Although beginning last week, it seems
| > | that FWHN is disabling even this basic theme management. With the noted
| > | destruction of site tect and image content.
| > |
| > | Naturally, servicing 5,000 people my design response to legitimate requests
| > | was initially extensive. Now it appears that SharePoint is being made into a
| > | single style "template". Is my "project" status a universal woe?
| > |
| > | How much of the decay in FrontPage design functionality is related to
| > | whatever FWHN is attempting to accomplish with its "project", and how much is
| > | related to problems with FrontPage 2003? FWHN tells me they have to continue
| > | their "project" because "you are making life difficult for us".
| > |
| > | Is FrontPage really causing too many problems for servers? FrontPage 2003 is
| > | the only Office 2003 product without any significant (or specific) product
| > | updates since its release 3 years ago. Is a solution for virtual SharePoint
| > | accounts on the way. Incidentally, I left bCentral.com SharePoint hosting
| > | months ago to escape even worse theme problems.
| > |
| > | My hope is that we will all get back the ability to use FontPage to style
| > | our SharePoint sites. This is a corporate imperative. My hope is that servers
| > | will not be able to make any customer into a "project" to attack FrontPage
| > | functionality. My fear is that Microsoft will adopt the FWHN project
| > | directions and remove themes and styles from the FrontPage functionality for
| > | SharePoint design. As Javascript is already disabled on the Tools, Page
| > | Options, Authoring tab when SharePoint is selected, this would constitute a
| > | major deprecation of an essentially magnificent web design tool.
| > |
| > | Is there a safe and secure way to style sharePoint sites using FrontPage
| > | 2003 without server interference?
| > |
| > | ((this article is duplicated in the FrontPage Server Extensions forum))
| >
| >
| >
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

Watch out for the black helicopters and tin foil (-;
--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| Thank you for your reply. Again, you are not reading my posts very carefully.
| Did you ask me to let you know if you were rather obtuse?
|
| What I was hoping for was a reply from you that went into serious
| consideration of exactly what can be accomplished, rather than vague
| reference to methods that are suspect at best.
| We need to know things like where has Microsoft clearly documented the way
| to safely manipulate tables on a shared server WSS account, beginning with a
| list of the styles and tables used and a picture showing the various page
| layers. For now, can you assist me with understanding more about SharePoint
| potentials in the shared server market. I am interested in the shared account
| environment becasue the vast majority of SharePoint accounts are on shared
| servers. Office, SharePoint and the whole kit and kaboodle are going that way.
|
| For example, how can we get around the V2 lazy server syndrome? It is with
| good reason that the WSS servers simply ignore any style sheets put up on
| shared accounts and use the portal servers ows.css. Remember that the WSS
| portal can be configured to "ignore any other styles" with a single click.
| This option used to appear on the step 3 page of the server setup. It is a
| lazy boy way to avoid configuring the server cache for WSS and is documented
| as such. I remember once Kirk kindly configured my server, but forgot to
| disable the switch, then remembered too late he had to configure this
| improvement for each account on my server, restore certain backups and so on.
| Oh gawd! SharePoint V2's ows.css is designed to allow "easy" style
| restriction. I think it would be useful if Microsoft totally disabled this
| easy switch where the server is deploying to a shared hosting environment. If
| anyone edits ows.css this is not a problem. The server should by default
| reset itself and its templates every half hour. The portal cache should
| isolate each shared account in a seperate directory so when the ows.css
| resets, then each shared account's styling is not screwed. Only problem is,
| servers DO NOT WANT to take 15 minutes to configure the cache properly for
| each account unless they are providing a dedicated service. Lazy server
| policy, Stephen, is going to make your referals to
| sharepointcustomization.com a trip into nonsense unitil that damn "ignore"
| switch is eliminated. Is there a real (cost attractive) solution? Each shared
| account needs its own "virtual style sheet interface" in an external
| environment. Well, wadda ya know! The upcoming version of SharePoint does
| just that. For now, any server host's shared WSS must also implement style
| restrictions. This is because the v2 portal server will damage ows.css unless
| the "ignore" switch is used with so many lazy boys out there. Okay? I
| understand where you are coming from Stephen. Now try and understand where I
| am coming from...
|
| PLEASE READ what I have to say below.
|
| As I noted previously, when I create my own themes locally and apply them to
| my WSS sites, the formatting I want remains. For a period of time, but is
| always corruped by the server even though the personal theme is not
| endangering ows.css, the lazy boy policy is in effect. Corruption usually
| begins after a few days with pages appearing quite messed up after several
| months. This corruption progresses with equal speed on sites being
| continually authored and on sites that are left to their own devices. Each
| site demonstrates the corruption in entirely unique ways. Don't ask me why.
|
| My WSS Host has provided the staus quo collection of Microsoft prepared
| theme alternatives and these can be applied without corruption. On my host
| (FWHN) certain packages built into FrontPage won't work because the techs
| have been more interested in enabling themes than packages. Note that some
| so-called templates downloaded from Microsoft (like the Legal Document Review
| Template) actually setup like packages on the server and will be corrupted
| until the techies unglue their asses. However, most of the templates from
| Microsoft work fine.
|
| Thus far the only practical way to respond to customer requests for changed
| site appearance is to style page elements individually (page by page) with a
| style longevity of a few weeks. These isolated style provisions are menacing
| to the portal as it expects no styling outside ows.css. Like the personal
| themes. they gradually decay.
|
| However, if a thicket is turned into a template and copied around the site
| with its "individual" style provisions the crap hits the fan. Curiously, what
| you get is not a revision to the ows.css settings. Nor do you get any
| immediate adjustment of the style provision (unless Kirk has been playing the
| predator, and manually restircts your sites use of a fFrontPage style
| component on the individually styled page, like, say, interactive button
| ms-jewel, etc, lol). What you get is an adhoc corruption of a global style
| class. For example, where i manually adjust default body font on a page to
| one size less than the ows.css setting, the entire site's default body font
| changes to Arial Black 14 pts bold. This change to site style is permanent.
| It even crawls through the Net axis into windows XP to pollute other
| unrealted sites on my local machines. Kirk reports that there has been
| absolutely no change to the ows.css and "no indication of anything amiss". No
| virus or worm here; a revision of the local Net framework. To repair, please
| reboot and reinstall disc, windows, and Office. Half an hour later, exactly
| the same symptom.
|
| As long as the WSS site retains the orginal tables (with style and class
| ID's in tact), the page can be adjusted by reshaping tables. That is as far
| as you can safely go on a shared lazy boy server. PLEASE! No more sharepoint
| customization.com nonsense. Get serious and help us out with maintaining the
| static, I mean really STATIC ows.css style provisions while satisfying
| customer requests for customization.
|
| There is far more going on than any WSS user like myself can comprehend.
| The way that Microsoft has cofigured WSS around ows.css generally disables
| any safe and attractive styling with FrontPage on a shared server account.
| However, customers will never stop requesting changes in page appearance. And
| most customers cannot afford a dedicated server.
|
| SharePoint in its current V2 incarnation is as useful in terms of design as
| an Interact receipt. Thankfully it borrows some design features based on
| tradtitional website design, like color (though it is unwise to change any
| colors supplied by templates. Why in God's name Microsoft introduced the
| "ignore" switch or enabled FrontPage access to any server hosting a shared
| ows.css is a mystery to me. But that is where we are!~
|
| Stephen, you should know that I am pushing the limits of the sharePoint
| design container because there is always something new to check out. Your
| referencing me to impossible solutions is indicative of experience
| contracting portal adaptation. My conclusions are based on numerous tests in
| a labile WSS shared server account. Where balanced user input is requested, I
| offer the following for any Studio 9 readers and contributors. In addition to
| the above consideration of a useful end to the lazy boy switch.
|
| While ShjarePoint version 3 offers to remove much of the obvious style
| stagnation included in version 2, the upcoming Expressions Web Designer is
| challenging Dream Weaver with a superior style manipulation interface. Some
| consideration should be given to enabling market centered style capabilities
| for the shared server package. This would help designers like me to step
| customers through cost relevant improvemnts in appearance that avoid jumps
| from a $15 shared account to a $150 dedicated setup. This would help to
| corner the numerically superior mass of low end users. This would also
| greatly satisfy captain Kirk!
|
| Conclusion
| Our primary host technician is "PREADATORY" by his own admission. Predation
| consists too often of incidental blocks of non-threatening page style such as
| interactive buttons. This interference is way out to lunch. Most of the
| boundaries I explore are not implementing any forced change to the ows.css
| "total environment" as it is called. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, unless something
| unexplored appears, and that is now not only unlikely but impossible, I am
| engaging labile frontpage styling of individual pages to satisfy customers.
|
| When I began my explorations, FWHN had not even implemented the second
| incarnation of the WSS resource kit, so Kirk may have been somewhat rocketed
| out of his seat. I felt justified jolting him, having ID'd him as a lazy boy.
| Sorry. I had to walk Kirk through server recovery using the 4-clicks method
| [lol]. I would go elsewhere if Kirk was not lazy. Kirk is diligently
| considering how style-ability (if you will) can be packaged in the host
| market. As noted, the vast majority of SharePoint users need coaxing to
| transcend cost-effective basics included with the shared server environment.
| It seems Microsoft is up to the challenge of extending the SharePoint
| product. Can you dig that?
|
| Why do you never go there, here in this place? And when will the shared
| server designers like me get their own dedicated forum from Microsoft, here
| in this "knowledge" place?
|
| "Stefan B Rusynko" bellowed:
|
|
| > You can not modify the server based version of Ows.css
| > - it affects all WSS users on the server
| > - your host is not predatory
| > (he is correctly protecting All users on the site)
| >
| > I have no idea what you mean by "I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint Services sites
| > using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS"
| >
| > The correct way for you to apply a customized equivalent of OWS.css styles just for your WSS site is for you to create a local
copy
| > of the style sheet in your site and just create a style sheet link to it for all your pages
| > - As explained in say http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;825495
| > - and using the guide at http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | Stefan B Rusynko,
| > |
| > | You have not answered my question. Its not that the host has the roles set
| > | wrong. The host is deliberately tracking my styling efforts and resetting
| > | roles to block the methods I am using to style my sites using FrontPage 2003!
| > |
| > | My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
| > | obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality?
| > |
| > | I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint Services sites
| > | using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS.
| > | Everytime I get something working, my host disables my code and the method I
| > | used to apply the style to the site. Kirk Duanes at Front Pages Web Hosting
| > | tells me he has to do this beacuse I am on a "virtual shared server" and I
| > | "could wreck everbody else's site". He refuses to explain this, telling me I
| > | am stupid.
| > |
| > | I am a web designer, not a secretary. When I set proper class and ID
| > | attributes something or someone is deleting or moving my attributes to other
| > | tables and objects and otherwise making a mess of my pages whike I am
| > | working. Every 5-10 minutes my coding is attacked. When i rewrite a style
| > | sheet and apply the changes, then an hour to several months later the text
| > | book method I used to write and save the style sheet is blocked and my site
| > | is messed up. I keep asking myself, why would a Microsoft recommended host be
| > | doing this?
| > |
| > | Is FWHN moving on to Expressions? So I check out Expressions Web Designer on
| > | http://mountainclubs.ca and note that after one or two logins my login is
| > | permanently fried, even after I uninstall Expressions and return to FWHN's
| > | butchered FrontPage.
| > |
| > | My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
| > | obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality? Perhaps some code that conceals
| > | the site from style perverts, so that the world I service can enjoy site
| > | design the way FrontPage is designed to deliver it.
| > |
| > | Regs, mark
| > |
| > | "Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:
| > |
| > | > If you are being blocked from using / changing themes on a WSS server
| > | > - the host does not have the roles set correctly
| > | > (or you do not have Web Designer or Administrator rights)
| > | > - http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/wss/2/all/adminguide/en-us/stsf01.mspx?mfr=true
| > | > Also see
| > | > http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | http://sbrenjoy.bizland.com/frontpage/themes/newthemes.html#Granular
| > | > |
| > | > | The link above describes how vbs can manipulate styles, and makes me wonder
| > | > | if my virtual SharePoint host is manipulating my design by eliminating all
| > | > | FrontPage style capability. My host is Front Pages Web Hosting, and I thought
| > | > | by its name and Microsoft lables everywhere that it would support the
| > | > | FrontPage product on its SharePoint servers.
| > | > |
| > | > | One of my sites is http://www.mountainclubs.bc.ca and services about 5,000
| > | > | registered users. Due to ongoing problems fitting design to organizational
| > | > | requests, the site is none too popular. The situation is that Front Pages Web
| > | > | Hosting has questioned me for months about using FrontPage Theme
| > | > | customization. Beginning last week, any attempt I make to customize a theme
| > | > | is completely ignored. In fact, not only are theme changes undone, but all
| > | > | new related web part page content is deleted along with the theme change!
| > | > |
| > | > | FWHN refers to my theme work as their "project". Here's how my theme
| > | > | "project" had to progress.
| > | > | 1. Initial success was had simply creating/editing a user defined style with
| > | > | www.mountainclubs.bc.ca open in FrontPage. This is when techniical staff at
| > | > | FWHN advised me that I was going to be made a "project". This style technique
| > | > | was disabled by the server within two months.
| > | > | 2. Next, I created theme sites on my local disc and applied those to
| > | > | www.mountainclubs.bc.ca with fair results. Initially, it was possible to
| > | > | effect change using User Defined styles, but eventually my "project" status
| > | > | reduced effective design to styling only HTML Tags styles. And then that was
| > | > | impossible.
| > | > | 3. In the final stage, I was making theme changes only when they were
| > | > | effected on my hard disc and saved as a unique theme name, and then the new
| > | > | theme was applied to my site pages. Although beginning last week, it seems
| > | > | that FWHN is disabling even this basic theme management. With the noted
| > | > | destruction of site tect and image content.
| > | > |
| > | > | Naturally, servicing 5,000 people my design response to legitimate requests
| > | > | was initially extensive. Now it appears that SharePoint is being made into a
| > | > | single style "template". Is my "project" status a universal woe?
| > | > |
| > | > | How much of the decay in FrontPage design functionality is related to
| > | > | whatever FWHN is attempting to accomplish with its "project", and how much is
| > | > | related to problems with FrontPage 2003? FWHN tells me they have to continue
| > | > | their "project" because "you are making life difficult for us".
| > | > |
| > | > | Is FrontPage really causing too many problems for servers? FrontPage 2003 is
| > | > | the only Office 2003 product without any significant (or specific) product
| > | > | updates since its release 3 years ago. Is a solution for virtual SharePoint
| > | > | accounts on the way. Incidentally, I left bCentral.com SharePoint hosting
| > | > | months ago to escape even worse theme problems.
| > | > |
| > | > | My hope is that we will all get back the ability to use FontPage to style
| > | > | our SharePoint sites. This is a corporate imperative. My hope is that servers
| > | > | will not be able to make any customer into a "project" to attack FrontPage
| > | > | functionality. My fear is that Microsoft will adopt the FWHN project
| > | > | directions and remove themes and styles from the FrontPage functionality for
| > | > | SharePoint design. As Javascript is already disabled on the Tools, Page
| > | > | Options, Authoring tab when SharePoint is selected, this would constitute a
| > | > | major deprecation of an essentially magnificent web design tool.
| > | > |
| > | > | Is there a safe and secure way to style sharePoint sites using FrontPage
| > | > | 2003 without server interference?
| > | > |
| > | > | ((this article is duplicated in the FrontPage Server Extensions forum))
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| >
| >
| >
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Suggest you post to the WSS newsgroup.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================

mark said:
Thank you for your reply. Again, you are not reading my posts very carefully.
Did you ask me to let you know if you were rather obtuse?

What I was hoping for was a reply from you that went into serious
consideration of exactly what can be accomplished, rather than vague
reference to methods that are suspect at best.
We need to know things like where has Microsoft clearly documented the way
to safely manipulate tables on a shared server WSS account, beginning with a
list of the styles and tables used and a picture showing the various page
layers. For now, can you assist me with understanding more about SharePoint
potentials in the shared server market. I am interested in the shared account
environment becasue the vast majority of SharePoint accounts are on shared
servers. Office, SharePoint and the whole kit and kaboodle are going that way.

For example, how can we get around the V2 lazy server syndrome? It is with
good reason that the WSS servers simply ignore any style sheets put up on
shared accounts and use the portal servers ows.css. Remember that the WSS
portal can be configured to "ignore any other styles" with a single click.
This option used to appear on the step 3 page of the server setup. It is a
lazy boy way to avoid configuring the server cache for WSS and is documented
as such. I remember once Kirk kindly configured my server, but forgot to
disable the switch, then remembered too late he had to configure this
improvement for each account on my server, restore certain backups and so on.
Oh gawd! SharePoint V2's ows.css is designed to allow "easy" style
restriction. I think it would be useful if Microsoft totally disabled this
easy switch where the server is deploying to a shared hosting environment. If
anyone edits ows.css this is not a problem. The server should by default
reset itself and its templates every half hour. The portal cache should
isolate each shared account in a seperate directory so when the ows.css
resets, then each shared account's styling is not screwed. Only problem is,
servers DO NOT WANT to take 15 minutes to configure the cache properly for
each account unless they are providing a dedicated service. Lazy server
policy, Stephen, is going to make your referals to
sharepointcustomization.com a trip into nonsense unitil that damn "ignore"
switch is eliminated. Is there a real (cost attractive) solution? Each shared
account needs its own "virtual style sheet interface" in an external
environment. Well, wadda ya know! The upcoming version of SharePoint does
just that. For now, any server host's shared WSS must also implement style
restrictions. This is because the v2 portal server will damage ows.css unless
the "ignore" switch is used with so many lazy boys out there. Okay? I
understand where you are coming from Stephen. Now try and understand where I
am coming from...

PLEASE READ what I have to say below.

As I noted previously, when I create my own themes locally and apply them to
my WSS sites, the formatting I want remains. For a period of time, but is
always corruped by the server even though the personal theme is not
endangering ows.css, the lazy boy policy is in effect. Corruption usually
begins after a few days with pages appearing quite messed up after several
months. This corruption progresses with equal speed on sites being
continually authored and on sites that are left to their own devices. Each
site demonstrates the corruption in entirely unique ways. Don't ask me why.

My WSS Host has provided the staus quo collection of Microsoft prepared
theme alternatives and these can be applied without corruption. On my host
(FWHN) certain packages built into FrontPage won't work because the techs
have been more interested in enabling themes than packages. Note that some
so-called templates downloaded from Microsoft (like the Legal Document Review
Template) actually setup like packages on the server and will be corrupted
until the techies unglue their asses. However, most of the templates from
Microsoft work fine.

Thus far the only practical way to respond to customer requests for changed
site appearance is to style page elements individually (page by page) with a
style longevity of a few weeks. These isolated style provisions are menacing
to the portal as it expects no styling outside ows.css. Like the personal
themes. they gradually decay.

However, if a thicket is turned into a template and copied around the site
with its "individual" style provisions the crap hits the fan. Curiously, what
you get is not a revision to the ows.css settings. Nor do you get any
immediate adjustment of the style provision (unless Kirk has been playing the
predator, and manually restircts your sites use of a fFrontPage style
component on the individually styled page, like, say, interactive button
ms-jewel, etc, lol). What you get is an adhoc corruption of a global style
class. For example, where i manually adjust default body font on a page to
one size less than the ows.css setting, the entire site's default body font
changes to Arial Black 14 pts bold. This change to site style is permanent.
It even crawls through the Net axis into windows XP to pollute other
unrealted sites on my local machines. Kirk reports that there has been
absolutely no change to the ows.css and "no indication of anything amiss". No
virus or worm here; a revision of the local Net framework. To repair, please
reboot and reinstall disc, windows, and Office. Half an hour later, exactly
the same symptom.

As long as the WSS site retains the orginal tables (with style and class
ID's in tact), the page can be adjusted by reshaping tables. That is as far
as you can safely go on a shared lazy boy server. PLEASE! No more sharepoint
customization.com nonsense. Get serious and help us out with maintaining the
static, I mean really STATIC ows.css style provisions while satisfying
customer requests for customization.

There is far more going on than any WSS user like myself can comprehend.
The way that Microsoft has cofigured WSS around ows.css generally disables
any safe and attractive styling with FrontPage on a shared server account.
However, customers will never stop requesting changes in page appearance. And
most customers cannot afford a dedicated server.

SharePoint in its current V2 incarnation is as useful in terms of design as
an Interact receipt. Thankfully it borrows some design features based on
tradtitional website design, like color (though it is unwise to change any
colors supplied by templates. Why in God's name Microsoft introduced the
"ignore" switch or enabled FrontPage access to any server hosting a shared
ows.css is a mystery to me. But that is where we are!~

Stephen, you should know that I am pushing the limits of the sharePoint
design container because there is always something new to check out. Your
referencing me to impossible solutions is indicative of experience
contracting portal adaptation. My conclusions are based on numerous tests in
a labile WSS shared server account. Where balanced user input is requested, I
offer the following for any Studio 9 readers and contributors. In addition to
the above consideration of a useful end to the lazy boy switch.

While ShjarePoint version 3 offers to remove much of the obvious style
stagnation included in version 2, the upcoming Expressions Web Designer is
challenging Dream Weaver with a superior style manipulation interface. Some
consideration should be given to enabling market centered style capabilities
for the shared server package. This would help designers like me to step
customers through cost relevant improvemnts in appearance that avoid jumps
from a $15 shared account to a $150 dedicated setup. This would help to
corner the numerically superior mass of low end users. This would also
greatly satisfy captain Kirk!

Conclusion
Our primary host technician is "PREADATORY" by his own admission. Predation
consists too often of incidental blocks of non-threatening page style such as
interactive buttons. This interference is way out to lunch. Most of the
boundaries I explore are not implementing any forced change to the ows.css
"total environment" as it is called. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, unless something
unexplored appears, and that is now not only unlikely but impossible, I am
engaging labile frontpage styling of individual pages to satisfy customers.

When I began my explorations, FWHN had not even implemented the second
incarnation of the WSS resource kit, so Kirk may have been somewhat rocketed
out of his seat. I felt justified jolting him, having ID'd him as a lazy boy.
Sorry. I had to walk Kirk through server recovery using the 4-clicks method
[lol]. I would go elsewhere if Kirk was not lazy. Kirk is diligently
considering how style-ability (if you will) can be packaged in the host
market. As noted, the vast majority of SharePoint users need coaxing to
transcend cost-effective basics included with the shared server environment.
It seems Microsoft is up to the challenge of extending the SharePoint
product. Can you dig that?

Why do you never go there, here in this place? And when will the shared
server designers like me get their own dedicated forum from Microsoft, here
in this "knowledge" place?

"Stefan B Rusynko" bellowed:

You can not modify the server based version of Ows.css
- it affects all WSS users on the server
- your host is not predatory
(he is correctly protecting All users on the site)

I have no idea what you mean by "I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint
Services sites
using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS"

The correct way for you to apply a customized equivalent of OWS.css styles just for your WSS site
is for you to create a local copy
of the style sheet in your site and just create a style sheet link to it for all your pages
- As explained in say http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;825495
- and using the guide at
http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| Stefan B Rusynko,
|
| You have not answered my question. Its not that the host has the roles set
| wrong. The host is deliberately tracking my styling efforts and resetting
| roles to block the methods I am using to style my sites using FrontPage 2003!
|
| My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
| obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality?
|
| I am [strategically] applying style to Windows SharePoint Services sites
| using many methods detailed in Microsoft Press publications for WSS.
| Everytime I get something working, my host disables my code and the method I
| used to apply the style to the site. Kirk Duanes at Front Pages Web Hosting
| tells me he has to do this beacuse I am on a "virtual shared server" and I
| "could wreck everbody else's site". He refuses to explain this, telling me I
| am stupid.
|
| I am a web designer, not a secretary. When I set proper class and ID
| attributes something or someone is deleting or moving my attributes to other
| tables and objects and otherwise making a mess of my pages whike I am
| working. Every 5-10 minutes my coding is attacked. When i rewrite a style
| sheet and apply the changes, then an hour to several months later the text
| book method I used to write and save the style sheet is blocked and my site
| is messed up. I keep asking myself, why would a Microsoft recommended host be
| doing this?
|
| Is FWHN moving on to Expressions? So I check out Expressions Web Designer on
| http://mountainclubs.ca and note that after one or two logins my login is
| permanently fried, even after I uninstall Expressions and return to FWHN's
| butchered FrontPage.
|
| My question is very simple. Is there a way to get past predatory host
| obstruction of basic FrontPage functionality? Perhaps some code that conceals
| the site from style perverts, so that the world I service can enjoy site
| design the way FrontPage is designed to deliver it.
|
| Regs, mark
|
| "Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:
|
| > If you are being blocked from using / changing themes on a WSS server
| > - the host does not have the roles set correctly
| > (or you do not have Web Designer or Administrator rights)
| > -
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/wss/2/all/adminguide/en-us/stsf01.mspx?mfr=true
| > Also see
| > http://www.sharepointcustomization.com/resources/tipstricks/wss_cssguide.htm
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | http://sbrenjoy.bizland.com/frontpage/themes/newthemes.html#Granular
| > |
| > | The link above describes how vbs can manipulate styles, and makes me wonder
| > | if my virtual SharePoint host is manipulating my design by eliminating all
| > | FrontPage style capability. My host is Front Pages Web Hosting, and I thought
| > | by its name and Microsoft lables everywhere that it would support the
| > | FrontPage product on its SharePoint servers.
| > |
| > | One of my sites is http://www.mountainclubs.bc.ca and services about 5,000
| > | registered users. Due to ongoing problems fitting design to organizational
| > | requests, the site is none too popular. The situation is that Front Pages Web
| > | Hosting has questioned me for months about using FrontPage Theme
| > | customization. Beginning last week, any attempt I make to customize a theme
| > | is completely ignored. In fact, not only are theme changes undone, but all
| > | new related web part page content is deleted along with the theme change!
| > |
| > | FWHN refers to my theme work as their "project". Here's how my theme
| > | "project" had to progress.
| > | 1. Initial success was had simply creating/editing a user defined style with
| > | www.mountainclubs.bc.ca open in FrontPage. This is when techniical staff at
| > | FWHN advised me that I was going to be made a "project". This style technique
| > | was disabled by the server within two months.
| > | 2. Next, I created theme sites on my local disc and applied those to
| > | www.mountainclubs.bc.ca with fair results. Initially, it was possible to
| > | effect change using User Defined styles, but eventually my "project" status
| > | reduced effective design to styling only HTML Tags styles. And then that was
| > | impossible.
| > | 3. In the final stage, I was making theme changes only when they were
| > | effected on my hard disc and saved as a unique theme name, and then the new
| > | theme was applied to my site pages. Although beginning last week, it seems
| > | that FWHN is disabling even this basic theme management. With the noted
| > | destruction of site tect and image content.
| > |
| > | Naturally, servicing 5,000 people my design response to legitimate requests
| > | was initially extensive. Now it appears that SharePoint is being made into a
| > | single style "template". Is my "project" status a universal woe?
| > |
| > | How much of the decay in FrontPage design functionality is related to
| > | whatever FWHN is attempting to accomplish with its "project", and how much is
| > | related to problems with FrontPage 2003? FWHN tells me they have to continue
| > | their "project" because "you are making life difficult for us".
| > |
| > | Is FrontPage really causing too many problems for servers? FrontPage 2003 is
| > | the only Office 2003 product without any significant (or specific) product
| > | updates since its release 3 years ago. Is a solution for virtual SharePoint
| > | accounts on the way. Incidentally, I left bCentral.com SharePoint hosting
| > | months ago to escape even worse theme problems.
| > |
| > | My hope is that we will all get back the ability to use FontPage to style
| > | our SharePoint sites. This is a corporate imperative. My hope is that servers
| > | will not be able to make any customer into a "project" to attack FrontPage
| > | functionality. My fear is that Microsoft will adopt the FWHN project
| > | directions and remove themes and styles from the FrontPage functionality for
| > | SharePoint design. As Javascript is already disabled on the Tools, Page
| > | Options, Authoring tab when SharePoint is selected, this would constitute a
| > | major deprecation of an essentially magnificent web design tool.
| > |
| > | Is there a safe and secure way to style sharePoint sites using FrontPage
| > | 2003 without server interference?
| > |
| > | ((this article is duplicated in the FrontPage Server Extensions forum))
| >
| >
| >
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top