"Click to activate this control" problem

[P@tty Ayers]

Hi Gregg - I'm sorry if I offended you. I'll try and clarify below..

Patty,

You a WAY off base with your answer.

I see. In any case, in the time we've been arguing about it, you could have
replaced your Java buttons with CSS hover buttons, and would have no problem
with your navigation now or for many years to come.

The others have given up - me too.

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Gregg,

Java and Flash are not using the same technologies. Flash uses ActiveX. Microsoft and may other have
provides a workaround based on using JavaScript (JavaScript is not the same as Java).

Currently other browsers are not affected by the lawsuit the require MS to change the way IE handles
plug-ins.

There is no way that you can force Java applets (FP Hover Button) to work, if the user doesn't have
the Java Virtual Machine installed, not matter what browser the user is using.



--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
==============================================
Agents Real Estate Listing Network
http://www.NReal.com
==============================================

 

[Gregg Hill]

Patty,

Thank you for the suggestion. If the first poster replying that he had made
it work (Murray) had only taken the few seconds that you did to explain how
to do it without Java, none of this back and forth would have happened. He
indicated that he had made Java work, which is what threw me off track.

As I mentioned previously, I am not a programmer, so I would not have known
that CSS could do it. But since you actually provided a solution this time,
I will look into the CSS method.

Gregg Hill

 

[Gregg Hill]

Thomas,

I was not aware until last night that JavaScript is not the same as Java.
Well, that explains why the fixes did not work! When I first started digging
for answers, I Googled "click to activate this control java" to narrow my
search and tried the fixes that came up, assuming that the fix was for Java,
but apparently it was JavaScript instead (and Flash...).

Actually, the hover buttons work perfectly when viewed in Firefox. My
systems are all running XP Pro with the latest Sun Java and no Microsoft
Java VM (at least not that I can find).

Time will tell if Eolas and the Univ of CA go after the others or not.

I am going to start digging around to figure out how to use the CSS that
Patty mentioned. She seemed to think it was easy, which would be true if I
were a programmer, but I will try to figure it out anyway.

Thank you for the explanations!

Gregg Hill

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Gregg,

You are welcome.

However the lawsuit is not about ActiveX or Java, etc. it is about IE using technology that allows
plug-ins.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
==============================================
Agents Real Estate Listing Network
http://www.NReal.com
==============================================

 

[Gregg Hill]

Thomas,

I read a little about the lawsuit before posting. I know it is not about IE
itself, but the technology (APPLET, EMBED, or OBJECT elements) that IE uses
to automatically load the particular control, whether ActiveX, Flash,
Shockwave, JavaScript, QuickTime, or whatever, belongs to Eolas and the
University of CA.

I know the hover button works with Firefox, but I have no idea **why** it
works, unless they use the same technology as IE and just haven't been hit
with a similar lawsuit yet.

Too much detail for me in programming!

Thanks again.

Gregg Hill

 

[P@tty Ayers]

Patty,

Thank you for the suggestion. If the first poster replying that he had
made it work (Murray) had only taken the few seconds that you did to
explain how to do it without Java, none of this back and forth would have
happened. He indicated that he had made Java work, which is what threw me
off track.

As I mentioned previously, I am not a programmer, so I would not have
known that CSS could do it. But since you actually provided a solution
this time, I will look into the CSS method.

You're most welcome. I hope you saw the link on my first post, earlier in
this thread. I use that method on about 3/4 of my sites these days. The
great part is that I can change/add/subtract items from the navigation bar
in literally about 5 seconds, and that's because it's actually just an HTML
list, styled by CSS.

If you're not real familiar with CSS yet, spending a couple of hours with a
good tutorial or book will get you going.

 

[Mike Mueller]

Best solution: don't use hover buttons!

"P@tty Ayers" replied:
Or make ones that don't use JavaScript OR Flash:
http://projectseven.com/tutorials/css/uberlinks/index.htm

***********************************************
Ummmm, they are using javascript on that one...

 

[P@tty Ayers]

"P@tty Ayers" replied:
Or make ones that don't use JavaScript OR Flash:
http://projectseven.com/tutorials/css/uberlinks/index.htm

***********************************************
Ummmm, they are using javascript on that one...

They are most definitely *not*. Not sure where you got that idea. Maybe you
thought I was referring to the site's menus? I was pointing to the tutorial
beginning on that page on how to create navigation links - I thought that
was obvious.

 

[Mike Mueller]

message :
: : >> Mike Mueller" wrote:
: >> Best solution: don't use hover buttons!
: >
: >
: > "P@tty Ayers" replied:
: > Or make ones that don't use JavaScript OR Flash:
: >
http://projectseven.com/tutorials/css/uberlinks/index.htm
: >
: > ***********************************************
: > Ummmm, they are using javascript on that one...
:
:
: They are most definitely *not*. Not sure where you got
that idea. Maybe you
: thought I was referring to the site's menus? I was
pointing to the tutorial
: beginning on that page on how to create navigation links -
I thought that
: was obvious.

I got the idea from that tutorial, I thought it was obvious
when they said you needed their javascript file that
javascript was actually needed for the page to work.

"Download the assets
To complete the project, you'll need the image files that
will comprise the rollover effects and the Uberlink
JavaScript file."

 

[P@tty Ayers]

message :
: : >> Mike Mueller" wrote:
: >> Best solution: don't use hover buttons!
: >
: >
: > "P@tty Ayers" replied:
: > Or make ones that don't use JavaScript OR Flash:
: >
http://projectseven.com/tutorials/css/uberlinks/index.htm
: >
: > ***********************************************
: > Ummmm, they are using javascript on that one...
:
:
: They are most definitely *not*. Not sure where you got
that idea. Maybe you
: thought I was referring to the site's menus? I was
pointing to the tutorial
: beginning on that page on how to create navigation links -
I thought that
: was obvious.

I got the idea from that tutorial, I thought it was obvious
when they said you needed their javascript file that
javascript was actually needed for the page to work.

"Download the assets
To complete the project, you'll need the image files that
will comprise the rollover effects and the Uberlink
JavaScript file."

Ok, you're right, that *tutorial* does use some JavaScript. The navigation
bar technique itself does *not* need to. They're just using JS to determine
"the current page" for the purpose of the tutorial.

My point: navigation bars can easily be made which look like buttons, use
graphics, have a "hover" effect and a "you are here" effect, but use *only*
HTML and CSS. They also can be made into server-side-includes, and still
have the "you are here" effect working. The markup is valid, and they're
easy to maintain. That's all.

 

[Mike Mueller]

message :
: : >
: > message : > :
message
: > : : > : >> Mike Mueller" wrote:
: > : >> Best solution: don't use hover buttons!
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > "P@tty Ayers" replied:
: > : > Or make ones that don't use JavaScript OR Flash:
: > : >
: >
http://projectseven.com/tutorials/css/uberlinks/index.htm
: > : >
: > : > ***********************************************
: > : > Ummmm, they are using javascript on that one...
: > :
: > :
: > : They are most definitely *not*. Not sure where you got
: > that idea. Maybe you
: > : thought I was referring to the site's menus? I was
: > pointing to the tutorial
: > : beginning on that page on how to create navigation
links -
: > I thought that
: > : was obvious.
: >
: > I got the idea from that tutorial, I thought it was
obvious
: > when they said you needed their javascript file that
: > javascript was actually needed for the page to work.
: >
: > "Download the assets
: > To complete the project, you'll need the image files
that
: > will comprise the rollover effects and the Uberlink
: > JavaScript file."
:
: Ok, you're right, that *tutorial* does use some
JavaScript. The navigation
: bar technique itself does *not* need to. They're just
using JS to determine
: "the current page" for the purpose of the tutorial.
:
: My point: navigation bars can easily be made which look
like buttons, use
: graphics, have a "hover" effect and a "you are here"
effect, but use *only*
: HTML and CSS. They also can be made into
server-side-includes, and still
: have the "you are here" effect working. The markup is
valid, and they're
: easy to maintain. That's all.

I just read what they had, I did not disect as I don't have
the need- my menu bars are all CSS defined lists already.

I have been playing with a 'variant' of image swapping,
using CSS to change from a backgroound image to a background
color on the hover function. The foreground is a simple GIF
with transparency. Fine in IE7, but not in other browsers
yet. Ideas?

http://lfd.lannonfire.com/forums/bog/debs3.htm

 

[P@tty Ayers]

message :
: : >
: > message : > :
message
: > : : > : >> Mike Mueller" wrote:
: > : >> Best solution: don't use hover buttons!
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > "P@tty Ayers" replied:
: > : > Or make ones that don't use JavaScript OR Flash:
: > : >
: >
http://projectseven.com/tutorials/css/uberlinks/index.htm
: > : >
: > : > ***********************************************
: > : > Ummmm, they are using javascript on that one...
: > :
: > :
: > : They are most definitely *not*. Not sure where you got
: > that idea. Maybe you
: > : thought I was referring to the site's menus? I was
: > pointing to the tutorial
: > : beginning on that page on how to create navigation
links -
: > I thought that
: > : was obvious.
: >
: > I got the idea from that tutorial, I thought it was
obvious
: > when they said you needed their javascript file that
: > javascript was actually needed for the page to work.
: >
: > "Download the assets
: > To complete the project, you'll need the image files
that
: > will comprise the rollover effects and the Uberlink
: > JavaScript file."
:
: Ok, you're right, that *tutorial* does use some
JavaScript. The navigation
: bar technique itself does *not* need to. They're just
using JS to determine
: "the current page" for the purpose of the tutorial.
:
: My point: navigation bars can easily be made which look
like buttons, use
: graphics, have a "hover" effect and a "you are here"
effect, but use *only*
: HTML and CSS. They also can be made into
server-side-includes, and still
: have the "you are here" effect working. The markup is
valid, and they're
: easy to maintain. That's all.

I just read what they had, I did not disect as I don't have
the need- my menu bars are all CSS defined lists already.

I have been playing with a 'variant' of image swapping,
using CSS to change from a backgroound image to a background
color on the hover function. The foreground is a simple GIF
with transparency. Fine in IE7, but not in other browsers
yet. Ideas?

http://lfd.lannonfire.com/forums/bog/debs3.htm

I'm not big on dissecting either. But it's common to use background
images which switch to other background images on hover, and it works fine
in all the major browsers.

 

[Murray]

Check the menu here -

http://66.165.96.216

It's all CSS, using a single image for both UP and OVER states on all menu
buttons. The CSS simply sets the background image's position....

 

[Mike Mueller]

message :
: : >
: > message : > :
message
: > : : > : >
in
: > : > message
: > : > :
: > message
: > : > : : > : > : >> Mike Mueller" wrote:
: > : > : >> Best solution: don't use hover buttons!
: > : > : >
: > : > : >
: > : > : > "P@tty Ayers" replied:
: > : > : > Or make ones that don't use JavaScript OR Flash:
: > : > : >
: > : >
: >
http://projectseven.com/tutorials/css/uberlinks/index.htm
: > : > : >
: > : > : > ***********************************************
: > : > : > Ummmm, they are using javascript on that one...
: > : > :
: > : > :
: > : > : They are most definitely *not*. Not sure where you
got
: > : > that idea. Maybe you
: > : > : thought I was referring to the site's menus? I was
: > : > pointing to the tutorial
: > : > : beginning on that page on how to create navigation
: > links -
: > : > I thought that
: > : > : was obvious.
: > : >
: > : > I got the idea from that tutorial, I thought it was
: > obvious
: > : > when they said you needed their javascript file that
: > : > javascript was actually needed for the page to work.
: > : >
: > : > "Download the assets
: > : > To complete the project, you'll need the image files
: > that
: > : > will comprise the rollover effects and the Uberlink
: > : > JavaScript file."
: > :
: > : Ok, you're right, that *tutorial* does use some
: > JavaScript. The navigation
: > : bar technique itself does *not* need to. They're just
: > using JS to determine
: > : "the current page" for the purpose of the tutorial.
: > :
: > : My point: navigation bars can easily be made which
look
: > like buttons, use
: > : graphics, have a "hover" effect and a "you are here"
: > effect, but use *only*
: > : HTML and CSS. They also can be made into
: > server-side-includes, and still
: > : have the "you are here" effect working. The markup is
: > valid, and they're
: > : easy to maintain. That's all.
: >
: > I just read what they had, I did not disect as I don't
have
: > the need- my menu bars are all CSS defined lists
already.
: >
: > I have been playing with a 'variant' of image swapping,
: > using CSS to change from a backgroound image to a
background
: > color on the hover function. The foreground is a simple
GIF
: > with transparency. Fine in IE7, but not in other
browsers
: > yet. Ideas?
: >
: > http://lfd.lannonfire.com/forums/bog/debs3.htm
:
: I'm not big on dissecting either. But it's common to
use background
: images which switch to other background images on hover,
and it works fine
: in all the major browsers.


I'm trying something a little different though, not using
javascript to do the swap of images. Normal background is an
image (of a color gradient), and the link is another image
(gif with link text as transparent), On hover, CSS is being
used to change to a background color, with no background
image

 

[P@tty Ayers]

message :
: : >
: > message : > :
message
: > : : > : >
in
: > : > message
: > : > :
: > message
: > : > : : > : > : >> Mike Mueller" wrote:
: > : > : >> Best solution: don't use hover buttons!
: > : > : >
: > : > : >
: > : > : > "P@tty Ayers" replied:
: > : > : > Or make ones that don't use JavaScript OR Flash:
: > : > : >
: > : >
: >
http://projectseven.com/tutorials/css/uberlinks/index.htm
: > : > : >
: > : > : > ***********************************************
: > : > : > Ummmm, they are using javascript on that one...
: > : > :
: > : > :
: > : > : They are most definitely *not*. Not sure where you
got
: > : > that idea. Maybe you
: > : > : thought I was referring to the site's menus? I was
: > : > pointing to the tutorial
: > : > : beginning on that page on how to create navigation
: > links -
: > : > I thought that
: > : > : was obvious.
: > : >
: > : > I got the idea from that tutorial, I thought it was
: > obvious
: > : > when they said you needed their javascript file that
: > : > javascript was actually needed for the page to work.
: > : >
: > : > "Download the assets
: > : > To complete the project, you'll need the image files
: > that
: > : > will comprise the rollover effects and the Uberlink
: > : > JavaScript file."
: > :
: > : Ok, you're right, that *tutorial* does use some
: > JavaScript. The navigation
: > : bar technique itself does *not* need to. They're just
: > using JS to determine
: > : "the current page" for the purpose of the tutorial.
: > :
: > : My point: navigation bars can easily be made which
look
: > like buttons, use
: > : graphics, have a "hover" effect and a "you are here"
: > effect, but use *only*
: > : HTML and CSS. They also can be made into
: > server-side-includes, and still
: > : have the "you are here" effect working. The markup is
: > valid, and they're
: > : easy to maintain. That's all.
: >
: > I just read what they had, I did not disect as I don't
have
: > the need- my menu bars are all CSS defined lists
already.
: >
: > I have been playing with a 'variant' of image swapping,
: > using CSS to change from a backgroound image to a
background
: > color on the hover function. The foreground is a simple
GIF
: > with transparency. Fine in IE7, but not in other
browsers
: > yet. Ideas?
: >
: > http://lfd.lannonfire.com/forums/bog/debs3.htm
:
: I'm not big on dissecting either. But it's common to
use background
: images which switch to other background images on hover,
and it works fine
: in all the major browsers.


I'm trying something a little different though, not using
javascript to do the swap of images. Normal background is an
image (of a color gradient), and the link is another image
(gif with link text as transparent), On hover, CSS is being
used to change to a background color, with no background
image

No JavaScript!! Just CSS and HTML and the a:hover pseudoclass, and it should
work fine in all the major browsers.

 

[Murray]

I love bottom posters, don't you? 8)

 

[Gregg Hill]

Patty,

I dropped off my wife after we had lunch today and I had a few hours to kill
while waiting for her to get off work, so I fired up the laptop with my
Verizon Wireless data card (love that thing!) and hit the link.

I made a test menu page on my web server and it works fine, looks great
(less filling?).

That is a good site and I thank you again for your patience. I think I'll
download a trial of Dreamweaver and Fireworks spend a few hours on it. I
always hated the way my friend's site looked, but it was functional, so I
never did anything with it.

Gregg Hill

 

[Gregg Hill]

Mike,

From what I have read about the IE problem, one way to fix it is to call an
external JS file, which the menu actually does using

<script type="text/javascript" src="assets/p7uberlink.js"></script>

inside the <head> tag. What happens after that is beyond me (not a
programmer here!). It may have nothing to do with why it works.

Gregg Hill

 

[Gregg Hill]

Hmm. I don't understand something here.

I created the menu using the tutorial and it works just fine. I then goofed
around and changed the colors of the two jpg images, yet it made no
difference in the menu color. So, I edited the CSS file to change the
colors, and it works fine with the new colors.

Here is where I got confused. Why do the images even need to be there? Or do
they? Just for the heck of it, I renamed the image extensions so they could
not load, and it still works.

What's up?

Gregg Hill