Column sorting incorrectly

M

Melissa

I have a column containing numbers 1-40. I made sure the format of these
cells is "Number" then I sorted my spreadsheet in ascending order. The
strange thing is, the order is correct except that 19, 35, 36, 38, 39 appear
after 40. Why is this happening?
 
R

RWN

Are you absolutely sure of the format? Sounds like the errant values are text.

Also, are the rows contiguous (i.e. no breaks)? If there is an empty row and you click
sort it will select the current region which is determined by where xl finds blank rows
and columns.
To be sure, select the values and then sort.

HTH
 
M

Melissa

I expect that when I select my whole column and format cells to Number, that
all the selected cells WILL have the format: Number.

In response to your question on breaks, my spreadsheet does not contain any
empty rows although somes cells may be blank.

I selected all the relevant rows and columns before applying auto-filter.

A bit more info on this column that I am sorting: this column contains
numbers 1-40 plus some blank cells.
 
R

RWN

I expect that when I select my whole column and format cells to Number, that
all the selected cells WILL have the format: Number.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If a text value is already present then selecting the cell and changing
the format won't have any effect (try it).
To force the format to a number, select a blank cell and copy it. Then select the range
where you require the format to be numeric and "PasteSpecial->Add".
 
M

Max

Melissa said:
.. I expect that when I select my whole column
and format cells to Number, that
all the selected cells WILL have the format: Number.
Click to expand...

Think formatting doesn't change the underlying ..

Try this:

Copy an empty cell, then select the range of 40 numbers
Right-click > paste special > Check "Add" > OK

Now the 40 numbers should sort properly
 
M

Melissa

I checked the format of the "errant" cells and it shows Number too.

In future, how will I know that there's an "underlying" text format if I
can't see it in the Format>Cell menu? It so happens I noticed the problem in
this spreadsheet, which is also a small file.

BTW, I did the pasteSpecial> Add and my column is sorting correctly now.
Can you please explain what this "Add" operation does?

Many thanks.
 
M

Melissa

Oh, and why won't Format Painter work? I thought it's to apply the format to
the new cells?
 
S

Stefi

What is the source of these data? I experienced earlier that imported data
(e.g. from a text file) behave like that!

Stefi
 
M

Melissa

Yes, the values were imported. But the question is: why after formatting the
cells to Number, are they still not behaving the way they should?
 
S

Stefi

In my opinion it's an Excel bug. I found a workaround: format a new helper
column as number, copy your misbehaving column and paste special values in
the helper column. Try to sort by it and if it is correct, you may copy it
back in its original place if necessary.

Regards,
Stefi
 
M

Melissa

I posted this with the intention that somebody from Microsoft will confirm
it's a bug. I think it's really silly... so am glad you agreed! :D
 
S

Stefi

Melissa, Microsoft is a colossus on clay legs, it reacts very slowly. We have
to survive day by day, therefore I'd rather like to know that could you come
around the problem?
Stefi
 
M

Melissa

Yes, I had to manually update the format of the "errant" cells by:
1. Copying a blank cell
2. Selecting the errant cell, and
3. Paste> Special> Add

No idea why it works but it did (thanks to other replies to my post).
 
S

Stefi

Thanks for your reply! If you want to fix a single cell, just select it,
click on the formula bar and click the tick mark, this method also works on a
single cell. Interesting, isn't it?
Stefi
 
R

Ron Rosenfeld

Yes, the values were imported. But the question is: why after formatting the
cells to Number, are they still not behaving the way they should?
Click to expand...

You are confusing cell format with cell contents. They are really two
different things.

Changing the format of a cell does not change its contents.

If you have already entered TEXT into a cell, changing the format does not
change the nature of the Value that is stored.

For many operations, Excel will give you the option of treating TEXT that looks
like numbers, as numbers. You should get that option using the Data/Sort
wizard (at least in versions 2002 and subsequent; I can't recall about before
then).

There are several ways to tell the difference. You can use the formula
=ISTEXT(cell_ref); if you have not changed the default justification, TEXT
will be left-justified and numbers will be right-justified.


--ron
 
S

Stefi

Hi Ron,

I am completely aware of the difference between cell format and cell
content, but the problem is that in these cases data are NOT ENTERED via
typing into the cells but are imported from a .txt file. I use Excel 2000 and
have no experience with 2002 and above (I intend to test this phenomenon in
Xl2003 in the near future), but in Xl2000 it definitely happens that sorting
either numeric or text columns imported from a text file (all in General
format) gives incorrect result. The same is the case with autofiltering.

For some unkown reasons Xl2000 "senses" the real value of these cells
contents only after manipulations written earlier in this thread. Note, that
these operations don't deal with formatting (because formatting really
doesn't fix the problem)!

Regards,
Stefi
 
R

Ron Rosenfeld

Hi Ron,

I am completely aware of the difference between cell format and cell
content, but the problem is that in these cases data are NOT ENTERED via
typing into the cells but are imported from a .txt file. I use Excel 2000 and
have no experience with 2002 and above (I intend to test this phenomenon in
Xl2003 in the near future), but in Xl2000 it definitely happens that sorting
either numeric or text columns imported from a text file (all in General
format) gives incorrect result. The same is the case with autofiltering.

For some unkown reasons Xl2000 "senses" the real value of these cells
contents only after manipulations written earlier in this thread. Note, that
these operations don't deal with formatting (because formatting really
doesn't fix the problem)!

Regards,
Stefi
Click to expand...

Was there any implication that *you* were not aware of the difference between
format and value?

It is clear from the top of my message that my comments were directed towards a
statement by Melissa.

She was the poster who did not understand why changing the formatting did not
help her problem.

The reason XL2000 "senses the real value" is not "unknown". Rather it is
because the "real value" is changed by the manipulations you outlined from
being TEXT to being NUMERIC.


--ron
 
R

RWN

I don't profess to be an expert but I *believe* the problem arises because the imported
text data lacks a sign byte.
Although it's a pain I don't think it is a "bug" (I run into the same problem uploading
data to an I-Series).
I've found that whenever I have to troubleshoot this sort of thing I enlarge the column
width and kill any justification.
The result is that the "text" numbers will be left justified and the "valid" numbers will
be right justified.

At work I use xl'03 and must say that I appreciate the warning I get from xl about
detecting mixed formats-saves a lot of time when my "Vlookups" return #N/A's!
 
S

Stefi

Hi Ron,

I didn't take upon myself your comment, although I really didn't notice that
your comment is addressed to Melissa, sorry. I simply wanted to point out
that before any formatting all cells format are "General" in a new sheet, let
it be populated with either manually entered or imported data, and still
there is a difference between the ways XL2000 handles them. Their format are
the same (General), their value look identical, therefore it is misleading
that you have to manipulate (not format) the imported ones in order to be
handled in a normal way.

To Rob! It's a matter of taste to consider this a bug or not.

Regards,
Stefi
 
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