Cuts Off Left Side of "W" in Menus - More Bugs in FP 2003?

M

Michael Adams

If I use Arial 8pt font for my vertical menu in my theme, the derived files
for the menus have the left part of the "W" cutoff. It looks fine in the
design view. It falls apart when previewing in Internet Explorer, and
doesn't look any better when published. Then I looked in the "derived"
directory, and sure enough FP cut off the left part of the "W". It doesn't
seem to do this with Times Roman. Is this another bug in Frontpage? Anyone
have a work around, short of using a paint program to fix the cr*ppy
lettering FP creates?

Also, how does one manually referesh the derived files, when FP doesn't do
it, even though you change the menus? Seems like another bug in Frontpage.

Michael
 
M

Murray

It's how those character faces behave. It has nothing to do with FP. If
you use CSS to pad the left side of things, you'll see the missing pixels
reappear.
 
K

Kevin Spencer

Yeah, it's a bug in FrontPage. It's very similar to that bug in Word that
causes text to be clipped when you print a page with your margins set wider
than the printable area, and that bug in Access that cuts off text data that
is longer than the size of the column. You would think after 30 years that
M$ would make software that lets us be as ignorant as we want to be, figure
out what we really want instead of taking us so literally, make all of our
decisions for us, and read our minds all at the same time! Then we could all
buy their software, do and know nothing, and get rich without working!

--
;-),

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven
 
R

Rob Giordano \(Crash Gordon®\)

And...I can see it in Windows..if you change Display Properties for instance it will cut off the top left portion of W's too.


| I don't think so, Kevin. I see the same thing in other programs, too.
|
| --
| Murray
| ============
|
| | > Yeah, it's a bug in FrontPage. It's very similar to that bug in Word that
| > causes text to be clipped when you print a page with your margins set
| > wider than the printable area, and that bug in Access that cuts off text
| > data that is longer than the size of the column. You would think after 30
| > years that M$ would make software that lets us be as ignorant as we want
| > to be, figure out what we really want instead of taking us so literally,
| > make all of our decisions for us, and read our minds all at the same time!
| > Then we could all buy their software, do and know nothing, and get rich
| > without working!
| >
| > --
| > ;-),
| >
| > Kevin Spencer
| > Microsoft MVP
| > .Net Developer
| > The sun never sets on
| > the Kingdom of Heaven
| >
| > | >> If I use Arial 8pt font for my vertical menu in my theme, the derived
| >> files
| >> for the menus have the left part of the "W" cutoff. It looks fine in the
| >> design view. It falls apart when previewing in Internet Explorer, and
| >> doesn't look any better when published. Then I looked in the "derived"
| >> directory, and sure enough FP cut off the left part of the "W". It
| >> doesn't
| >> seem to do this with Times Roman. Is this another bug in Frontpage?
| >> Anyone
| >> have a work around, short of using a paint program to fix the cr*ppy
| >> lettering FP creates?
| >>
| >> Also, how does one manually referesh the derived files, when FP doesn't
| >> do
| >> it, even though you change the menus? Seems like another bug in
| >> Frontpage.
| >>
| >> Michael
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
 
K

Kevin Spencer

I was being facetious, Murray. Perhaps a bit too much so. It just irritates
me when I hear someone assume it must be a bug in the software. Yes, this
particular behavior is completely developer-independent,
browser-independent, as far as I know, and may in fact be a bug in the font
itself, for all I know. My point was that it is NOT a bug in FrontPage, and
it is foolish to make that assumption without knowledge.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven
 
M

Michael Adams

And can someone tell me why this would NOT be a bug in Frontpage? So far
all I have seen is a bunch of griping that it must be operator error or
stupidity. That's uncalled for. Some people here need to chill. The same
people seem to harangue anyone who asks a question here. For those that
don't want to want to answer people's questions, then fine, don't answer.
We don't need your smart*ss remarks.

Let me clarify for everyone who thinks I'm stupid and it's operator error:

(1) I can put one "W" with no following characters, or an entire word, it
always cuts it off on the left. Doesn't seem like a padding issue to me.

(2) The "W" is fine in preview, but is corrupted when FrontPage renders it
into a menu graphic. Combined with the above, how can that be operator
error? I can view the graphic in a paint program, and the pixels are
missing.

(3) Times Roman is fine.

And I still didn't get an answer on how to force FP to refresh files in the
"_defined" directory. The program doesn't always refresh the files. Again,
someone tell me with a legitimate answer why this isn't a bug in FP.

Michael
 
M

Michael Adams

I don't think so. FP is rendering the text into graphic files, which go
into the _defined directory. This is not a problem with CSS rendering
improperly in IE.
 
M

Michael Adams

So far, sir, you have added nothing but condescending, sarcastic remarks to
this post, which are totally uncalled for. The questions are legitimate.
If you can't answer the questions, then don't respond.
 
S

Steve Easton

It's not a FrontPage issue, it's a known issue with that particular font.


--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer
 
M

Michael Adams

And I'll tell you one other reason why this looks like a bug, and not a
padding issue. It cuts off the pixels on the top left corner of the "W",
not just the left side, at about a 30 degree angle from horizontal. Wider
words without leading "W"'s are not cut off. If someone has a workaround
for this, I would appreciate it.

Michael
 
R

Rob Giordano \(Crash Gordon®\)

I don't think the W thing is a bug in FP because I've had it happen to me in W98SE (without FP even opened) when I change the font in Display Properties | Appearance...I think it's a font/
Windows problem.


| And I'll tell you one other reason why this looks like a bug, and not a
| padding issue. It cuts off the pixels on the top left corner of the "W",
| not just the left side, at about a 30 degree angle from horizontal. Wider
| words without leading "W"'s are not cut off. If someone has a workaround
| for this, I would appreciate it.
|
| Michael
|
|
| | > And can someone tell me why this would NOT be a bug in Frontpage? So far
| > all I have seen is a bunch of griping that it must be operator error or
| > stupidity. That's uncalled for. Some people here need to chill. The
| same
| > people seem to harangue anyone who asks a question here. For those that
| > don't want to want to answer people's questions, then fine, don't answer.
| > We don't need your smart*ss remarks.
| >
| > Let me clarify for everyone who thinks I'm stupid and it's operator
| error:
| >
| > (1) I can put one "W" with no following characters, or an entire word, it
| > always cuts it off on the left. Doesn't seem like a padding issue to me.
| >
| > (2) The "W" is fine in preview, but is corrupted when FrontPage renders
| it
| > into a menu graphic. Combined with the above, how can that be operator
| > error? I can view the graphic in a paint program, and the pixels are
| > missing.
| >
| > (3) Times Roman is fine.
| >
| > And I still didn't get an answer on how to force FP to refresh files in
| the
| > "_defined" directory. The program doesn't always refresh the files.
| Again,
| > someone tell me with a legitimate answer why this isn't a bug in FP.
| >
| > Michael
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > | > > Ahh - I missed the deeper significance there. Call me 'Shallow Hal'!
| > >
| > > --
| > > Murray
| > > ============
| > >
| > > | > > >I was being facetious, Murray. Perhaps a bit too much so. It just
| > irritates
| > > >me when I hear someone assume it must be a bug in the software. Yes,
| this
| > > >particular behavior is completely developer-independent,
| > > >browser-independent, as far as I know, and may in fact be a bug in the
| > font
| > > >itself, for all I know. My point was that it is NOT a bug in FrontPage,
| > and
| > > >it is foolish to make that assumption without knowledge.
| > > >
| > > > --
| > > > HTH,
| > > >
| > > > Kevin Spencer
| > > > Microsoft MVP
| > > > .Net Developer
| > > > The sun never sets on
| > > > the Kingdom of Heaven
| > > >
| > > > | > > >>I don't think so, Kevin. I see the same thing in other programs, too.
| > > >>
| > > >> --
| > > >> Murray
| > > >> ============
| > > >>
| > > >> | > > >>> Yeah, it's a bug in FrontPage. It's very similar to that bug in Word
| > > >>> that causes text to be clipped when you print a page with your
| margins
| > > >>> set wider than the printable area, and that bug in Access that cuts
| > off
| > > >>> text data that is longer than the size of the column. You would
| think
| > > >>> after 30 years that M$ would make software that lets us be as
| ignorant
| > > >>> as we want to be, figure out what we really want instead of taking
| us
| > so
| > > >>> literally, make all of our decisions for us, and read our minds all
| at
| > > >>> the same time! Then we could all buy their software, do and know
| > > >>> nothing, and get rich without working!
| > > >>>
| > > >>> --
| > > >>> ;-),
| > > >>>
| > > >>> Kevin Spencer
| > > >>> Microsoft MVP
| > > >>> .Net Developer
| > > >>> The sun never sets on
| > > >>> the Kingdom of Heaven
| > > >>>
| > > >>> | > > >>>> If I use Arial 8pt font for my vertical menu in my theme, the
| derived
| > > >>>> files
| > > >>>> for the menus have the left part of the "W" cutoff. It looks fine
| in
| > > >>>> the
| > > >>>> design view. It falls apart when previewing in Internet Explorer,
| > and
| > > >>>> doesn't look any better when published. Then I looked in the
| > "derived"
| > > >>>> directory, and sure enough FP cut off the left part of the "W". It
| > > >>>> doesn't
| > > >>>> seem to do this with Times Roman. Is this another bug in
| Frontpage?
| > > >>>> Anyone
| > > >>>> have a work around, short of using a paint program to fix the
| cr*ppy
| > > >>>> lettering FP creates?
| > > >>>>
| > > >>>> Also, how does one manually referesh the derived files, when FP
| > doesn't
| > > >>>> do
| > > >>>> it, even though you change the menus? Seems like another bug in
| > > >>>> Frontpage.
| > > >>>>
| > > >>>> Michael
| > > >>>>
| > > >>>>
| > > >>>
| > > >>>
| > > >>
| > > >>
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
 
M

Murray

It's not an FP bug.

--
Murray
============

message I don't think the W thing is a bug in FP because I've had it happen to me in
W98SE (without FP even opened) when I change the font in Display Properties
| Appearance...I think it's a font/
Windows problem.


| And I'll tell you one other reason why this looks like a bug, and not a
| padding issue. It cuts off the pixels on the top left corner of the "W",
| not just the left side, at about a 30 degree angle from horizontal. Wider
| words without leading "W"'s are not cut off. If someone has a workaround
| for this, I would appreciate it.
|
| Michael
|
|
| | > And can someone tell me why this would NOT be a bug in Frontpage? So
far
| > all I have seen is a bunch of griping that it must be operator error or
| > stupidity. That's uncalled for. Some people here need to chill. The
| same
| > people seem to harangue anyone who asks a question here. For those that
| > don't want to want to answer people's questions, then fine, don't
answer.
| > We don't need your smart*ss remarks.
| >
| > Let me clarify for everyone who thinks I'm stupid and it's operator
| error:
| >
| > (1) I can put one "W" with no following characters, or an entire word,
it
| > always cuts it off on the left. Doesn't seem like a padding issue to
me.
| >
| > (2) The "W" is fine in preview, but is corrupted when FrontPage renders
| it
| > into a menu graphic. Combined with the above, how can that be operator
| > error? I can view the graphic in a paint program, and the pixels are
| > missing.
| >
| > (3) Times Roman is fine.
| >
| > And I still didn't get an answer on how to force FP to refresh files in
| the
| > "_defined" directory. The program doesn't always refresh the files.
| Again,
| > someone tell me with a legitimate answer why this isn't a bug in FP.
| >
| > Michael
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > | > > Ahh - I missed the deeper significance there. Call me 'Shallow Hal'!
| > >
| > > --
| > > Murray
| > > ============
| > >
| > > | > > >I was being facetious, Murray. Perhaps a bit too much so. It just
| > irritates
| > > >me when I hear someone assume it must be a bug in the software. Yes,
| this
| > > >particular behavior is completely developer-independent,
| > > >browser-independent, as far as I know, and may in fact be a bug in
the
| > font
| > > >itself, for all I know. My point was that it is NOT a bug in
FrontPage,
| > and
| > > >it is foolish to make that assumption without knowledge.
| > > >
| > > > --
| > > > HTH,
| > > >
| > > > Kevin Spencer
| > > > Microsoft MVP
| > > > .Net Developer
| > > > The sun never sets on
| > > > the Kingdom of Heaven
| > > >
| > > > | > > >>I don't think so, Kevin. I see the same thing in other programs,
too.
| > > >>
| > > >> --
| > > >> Murray
| > > >> ============
| > > >>
| > > >> | > > >>> Yeah, it's a bug in FrontPage. It's very similar to that bug in
Word
| > > >>> that causes text to be clipped when you print a page with your
| margins
| > > >>> set wider than the printable area, and that bug in Access that
cuts
| > off
| > > >>> text data that is longer than the size of the column. You would
| think
| > > >>> after 30 years that M$ would make software that lets us be as
| ignorant
| > > >>> as we want to be, figure out what we really want instead of taking
| us
| > so
| > > >>> literally, make all of our decisions for us, and read our minds
all
| at
| > > >>> the same time! Then we could all buy their software, do and know
| > > >>> nothing, and get rich without working!
| > > >>>
| > > >>> --
| > > >>> ;-),
| > > >>>
| > > >>> Kevin Spencer
| > > >>> Microsoft MVP
| > > >>> .Net Developer
| > > >>> The sun never sets on
| > > >>> the Kingdom of Heaven
| > > >>>
| > > >>> | > > >>>> If I use Arial 8pt font for my vertical menu in my theme, the
| derived
| > > >>>> files
| > > >>>> for the menus have the left part of the "W" cutoff. It looks
fine
| in
| > > >>>> the
| > > >>>> design view. It falls apart when previewing in Internet
Explorer,
| > and
| > > >>>> doesn't look any better when published. Then I looked in the
| > "derived"
| > > >>>> directory, and sure enough FP cut off the left part of the "W".
It
| > > >>>> doesn't
| > > >>>> seem to do this with Times Roman. Is this another bug in
| Frontpage?
| > > >>>> Anyone
| > > >>>> have a work around, short of using a paint program to fix the
| cr*ppy
| > > >>>> lettering FP creates?
| > > >>>>
| > > >>>> Also, how does one manually referesh the derived files, when FP
| > doesn't
| > > >>>> do
| > > >>>> it, even though you change the menus? Seems like another bug in
| > > >>>> Frontpage.
| > > >>>>
| > > >>>> Michael
| > > >>>>
| > > >>>>
| > > >>>
| > > >>>
| > > >>
| > > >>
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
 
K

Kevin Spencer

The only "operator error" I mentioned was calling it a bug in FrontPage. It
has nothing to do with FrontPage. And there's nothing you can do about it,
regardless of what you use to develop your HTML. Nobody called you stupid.
If you want to know why it's NOT a bug in FrontPage, write the same HTML in
a text editor, and view it in a browser, without using FrontPage. Then YOU
can chill.

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven
 
K

Kevin Spencer

And I still didn't get an answer on how to force FP to refresh files in
the
"_defined" directory. The program doesn't always refresh the files.
Again,
someone tell me with a legitimate answer why this isn't a bug in FP.

I believe you meant the "_derived" directory, right? What do you mean by
"refresh the files?" The files in that folder are generated by and
maintained by FrontPage, and you shouldn't be doing anything with them
directly, but only through FrontPage (meaning that only FrontPage should do
anything with those files, not that you should do anything with those files
using FrontPage).

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven
 
M

Michael Adams

I understand that. Again, I am not an IDIOT, and this is not OPERATOR
ERROR, as many Microsoft people here want to dismiss it as, and seems to be
their standard response to anyone with FP problems. With an attitude like
that, it's never going to improve.

FP is NOT refreshing those files when it should. After changing a menu
font, there are times when FP will NOT refresh the files. Therefore, it
looks fine in preview, but not in IE. I can save the project, NO CHANGE. I
can change the font to another, NO CHANGE. When I view the generated files
in the _defined directory, and it still has the OLD FONT, with old files.
Want to tell me why that isn't a bug? Your engineers need to look at this.

My question is, is there a way to manually force a file refresh? What's a
workaround? I can tell you just deleting the files, will not cause it to
regenerate them.

Michael
 
M

Michael Adams

Steve,

Does Microsoft have a repaired font that could be downloaded? It is hard to
believe they haven't fixed one of the most popular fonts by now. I can tell
you the fix is not WXP SP2.

Michael
 
M

Michael Adams

Kevin Spencer said:
The only "operator error" I mentioned was calling it a bug in FrontPage. It
has nothing to do with FrontPage. And there's nothing you can do about it,
regardless of what you use to develop your HTML. Nobody called you stupid.
If you want to know why it's NOT a bug in FrontPage, write the same HTML in
a text editor, and view it in a browser, without using FrontPage.

That will not replicate the problem. The problem "W" isn't even rendered by
the browser. There is no HTML code involved. You obviously jumped right on
the keyboard to bang our your desparaging remarks, rather than reading the
post, and realizing that FP is rendering the character to a graphic file!
Then YOU can chill.

That's nice. MIcrosoft gives incorrect advice, and then continues insulting
the customer. I don't see how being snotty to customers is going to improve
sales, but whatever...

Michael
 
K

Kevin Spencer

No, you're not an idiot, and I apologize for getting testy about your
assuming that it's a bug, but what you don't seem to understand is that
there is no fix for it. It doesn't matter whether you use FrontPage,
DreamWeaver, or Notepad to create the HTML, or what browser you view it in.
This is something that happens. Nobody I've consulted with seems to know
why. Someone suggested that it may be the font itself.

Also, there are almost never any Microsoft people here, just us MVPs and
other users of Microsoft products. MVPs don't work for Microsoft (even
though many of us wish we did!). So, it's not OUR engineers who need to take
a look.

As to what you're referring to as a "refresh," it sounds like what you're
saying is that these files are not being updated when you make changes.
There are several reasons why this might happen. First, did you open the web
prior to making the changes? These are FrontPage components that can only be
changed in the context of an opened web. The server extensions can be
corrupted by several situations. One way to fix this is to recalcuate
hyperlinks for the web.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven
 

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