I'm Seeking > DB Design References

M

MVP - WannaB

Hello, I am looking for some references to help me structure a rather large
project. TOO large for me to just wing it. I would appreciate any
suggestions, Thanks for your help.
 
P

Pete D.

Access Developer Handbook and Access 2007 inside out are my favorites. Mine
are quite dog eared.
 
L

Larry Linson

MVP - WannaB said:
Hello, I am looking for some references to help me
structure a rather large project. TOO large for me
to just wing it.
Click to expand...

"Designing Effective Database Systems", by Rebecca Riordan. Either of the
editions, one from Microsoft, another from a different publisher, will be
just fine. May be out of print, but searching for a copy at half.com or
ebay or ??? would be well-worth the time and trouble.
 
J

John W. Vinson

Hello, I am looking for some references to help me structure a rather large
project. TOO large for me to just wing it. I would appreciate any
suggestions, Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

In addition to the other good suggestions, try:

Jeff Conrad's resources page:
http://www.accessmvp.com/JConrad/accessjunkie/resources.html

The Access Web resources page:
http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/index.html

A free tutorial written by Crystal (MS Access MVP):
http://allenbrowne.com/casu-22.html

MVP Allen Browne's tutorials:
http://allenbrowne.com/links.html#Tutorials
 
J

John... Visio MVP

Steve said:
I have helped many customers structure their database at the beginning for
a very modest fee. I provide the design of the tables as well as a map of
the tables to document the structure.

Steve
Click to expand...

Still trying to solicit work? I guess those you have helped were not
impressed enough for repeat business.

These newsgroups are provided by Microsoft for FREE peer to peer support.
Stevie is the only one over the past few years who does not understand the
concept of FREE support.

John...
 
J

Jeff Boyce

I usually offer three "learning curves" you'll want to consider when
building an application (is that what you mean by "a rather large
project"?)...

1. Understanding "normalization" and "relational database design". Many of
the responses you received point this direction.
2. Understanding how Access does things ... this is learning the ins and
outs of how Access works.
3. Understanding what appeals to users and what turns them off -- "graphical
user interface design".

(and I usually throw in a 4th ... experience with development projects!).

Good luck! Feel free to post back in the 'groups with specific questions.
You have a rich resource here.

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP
 
M

Michael Gramelspacher

I suggest you start the name of All tables with "Tbl". When you
get to writing code you'll be able to tell tables from queries because query
names will begin with "Qry".
Click to expand...

If you are just starting out, I would advise that you to first read the relevant
parts of Joe Celko's SQL Programming Style. Things like starting a table name
with a tbl- prefix, to quote one Access expert, "... makes Access look like a
toy for people who are not to be taken seriously."
 
P

Pete D.

Excuse me, making code esier to read is not to be taken seriously. So you
think it is time to mess (pick your swear) with the guy that has to fix your
mistake with poorly documented code. Your in it for the money, not to build
code for your employer that is to help thier company become great! That
qualifies as one of the most....nasty...don't care about anyone else
statements I have seen that someone would put on a public site. Congrats,
you might qualify for the dirtbag of the day award! Please respond as you
can not defend this response. Oh by the way, I do it for fun and still
think you S#$k. Are you related to a a r o n or are you him?
 
M

Michael Gramelspacher

Excuse me, making code esier to read is not to be taken seriously. So you
think it is time to mess (pick your swear) with the guy that has to fix your
mistake with poorly documented code. Your in it for the money, not to build
code for your employer that is to help thier company become great! That
qualifies as one of the most....nasty...don't care about anyone else
statements I have seen that someone would put on a public site. Congrats,
you might qualify for the dirtbag of the day award! Please respond as you
can not defend this response. Oh by the way, I do it for fun and still
think you S#$k. Are you related to a a r o n or are you him?
Click to expand...

This is great, but really though, I need to apply a policy used by most
reputable publications, and not publish or respond to anonymous mail.
 
A

a a r o n _ k e m p f

I'd reccomend-- like they said-- break it down into manageable pieces.
make it into several releases.

build prototypes quickly, get feedback before spending a lot of time
in polishing.

and most importantly-- start with a database engine that has a
future-- JET has been obsolete for a decade.

Upsize to SQL Server. If you don't know it-- go and take a class.

-Aaron
 
L

Larry Linson

a a r o n _ k e m p f said:
and most importantly-- start with a database engine
that has a future-- JET has been obsolete for a decade.
Click to expand...

Jet has not been obsolete for a decade, a year, or even a minute. It is not
obsolete now... it is included in Access 2007 the current version, right
along with its descendant the ACE database engine. Mr. Kempf seems to love
the word "decade" and just can't refrain from using it, even in a statement
that is patently false.
Upsize to SQL Server. If you don't know it-- go and take a class.
Click to expand...

MS SQL Server is a good server database for use with the configuration now
recommended by the Access team in Redmond: MDB/MDE or ACCDB/ACCDE, with Jet
or ACE, linked via ODBC to SQL Server. However, if your company has chosen
another ODBC-compliant database as its corporate standard, as many have,
this configuration will work just fine.

In fact, that configuration works so well, you are likely to be able to make
excellent use of it without _having_ to go take a class. (Many companies
have Database Administrators, DBAs, who do the server-side things for
front-end developers, and, often, conduct tutorials to give the developers
the information they will need without any formal "classes".)

Thanks for enlightening us, Mr. Kempf.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Office Access MVP
 
E

Elwood P Dowd

Michael Gramelspacher said:
If you are just starting out, I would advise that you
to first read the relevant parts of Joe Celko's SQL
Programming Style. Things like starting a table name
with a tbl- prefix, to quote one Access expert, "... makes
Access look like a toy for people who are not to
be taken seriously."
Click to expand...

Really, you'd recommend that? To quote one database expert, "Celko, in
addition to being an obnoxious, onceited arsle, is only a theoretician and
wouldn't recognize real database work if it bit him in the arse. Your friend
Harvey knows more about real database than Celko, and anybody who'd follow
him is cruisin' for a bruisin' in the real world." To quote another,
"Anybody who'd criticize another man's naming convention shouldn't even be
allowed in the bar, much less bought a drink."

Oh, wait, you're the one that's always taking up for Spammin' Steve Santus,
aren't you? No wonder you make such useless recommendations... you defend a
useles spammer, you recommend a useless expert on Programming Style, then
quote another useless expert on naming. Ho, ho, ho... Harvey, call for
another round for Mikey, here.

El
 
M

Michael Gramelspacher

For the benefit of the original poster, here is a web page with 100s of sample
database models. http://www.databaseanswers.org/data_models/car_hire/index.htm
Maybe you want to consider this naming convention.

Here is another naming convention to consider.
http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/tonysobjectnamingconventions.htm

Picture, if you can, how the data models in the first link would appear, were
some other naming convention to be applied to the tables and the field names.

Celko explains his rational for his recommendations in some detail in his book.
 
J

Jeff Boyce

As you might infer from the responses, "naming conventions" are something of
a hot-button topic. You will probably be able to find reasonable arguments
for and against the use of specific naming conventions (perhaps a matter of
religious belief?), but quite a few folks (?reputable; ?successful; pick
your qualifier) are in favor of the consistent use of SOME naming
convention.

The other topic likely to inflame passions is "natural vs. artificial keys"

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Office/Access MVP
 
E

Elwood P Dowd

Michael Gramelspacher said:
Celko explains his rational for his recommendations
in some detail in his book.
Click to expand...

Not just endorsing the useless, are you? But also throwing money down a
rathole by buying a useless book by a self-aggrandizing "expert"? Not only
that, according to that nameless database expert, you ought to be thrown
right out of the bar... and then where would you get the wherewithal to
continue muddling your thinking?

Harvey, hold that drink. He doesn't deserve one. Let the bouncer take care
of this bounder.

El
 
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