Incredible Expanding Database!

B

Bill Weylock

Does anyone else have a problem with this, and what do you do about it?

I get a lot of attachments in my emails, so the database has rapidly
expanded to be around 2GB.

In itself, who cares? Plenty of space on the drive.

The problem is backing up the system every day. Since email is added, that
immense file has to be copied over to the backup media on every single pass.
We back up to hard drives with a lot of space, but it still means that
archives fill up a lot faster than they should.

I know I can archive all of my messages, but that¹s not a solution. I
routinely refer back to emails two and three months ago.

I¹ve read some of the options suggested. One was to create a custom view of
messages in a certain period, categorize them as ³archive² and export all in
the archive category.

That seemed swell until I tried it. There are 83000 emails that are more
than 270 days old. Also, I really don¹t like losing the folder and category
information.

Along the way yesterday I managed to foul up my database and had to restore
it from Retrospect. Then Entourage decided it needed to be rebuilt, which
took about an hour. I lost all of the newsgroup messages I had accumulated
and can¹t find anything now on the various macro solutions others suggested.

Help, please?

It might also help me if I knew how easy it is to access messages in
archives. I am guessing I have to import the entire archive to be able to
locate one message? That¹s a pretty horrible thought, so I hope I¹m wrong.

Thanks!


Best,


- Bill




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

Just duplicate your identity folder in the Finder. That will preserve
everything as it is, folders and categories included, in this copied
identity. You can always switch identities to that one if you need to go
find something. Use a sophisticated backup app like Retrospect and exclude
this copied identity folder from your sources from incremental backing up.
Just back it up once and leave it be. Even if you go in there from time to
time (which will change the modification date) you won't really be changing
anything there so you don't need to back it up again. Or make it part of a
Retrospect backup script that replaces the backup file every few weeks. In
the meantime, in your main identity, make that custom view for everything
over three months old and delete every thing in it, then compact the
database. Back up this identity every day or so. Repeat this whole process
in a year or 6 months.


--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.



From: Bill Weylock <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 05:26:47 -0800
Subject: Incredible Expanding Database!

Does anyone else have a problem with this, and what do you do about it?

I get a lot of attachments in my emails, so the database has rapidly
expanded to be around 2GB.

In itself, who cares? Plenty of space on the drive.

The problem is backing up the system every day. Since email is added, that
immense file has to be copied over to the backup media on every single pass.
We back up to hard drives with a lot of space, but it still means that
archives fill up a lot faster than they should.

I know I can archive all of my messages, but that¹s not a solution. I
routinely refer back to emails two and three months ago.

I¹ve read some of the options suggested. One was to create a custom view of
messages in a certain period, categorize them as ³archive² and export all in
the archive category.

That seemed swell until I tried it. There are 83000 emails that are more
than 270 days old. Also, I really don¹t like losing the folder and category
information.

Along the way yesterday I managed to foul up my database and had to restore
it from Retrospect. Then Entourage decided it needed to be rebuilt, which
took about an hour. I lost all of the newsgroup messages I had accumulated
and can¹t find anything now on the various macro solutions others suggested.

Help, please?

It might also help me if I knew how easy it is to access messages in
archives. I am guessing I have to import the entire archive to be able to
locate one message? That¹s a pretty horrible thought, so I hope I¹m wrong.

Thanks!


Best,


- Bill




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
B

Bill Weylock

That¹s too easy! :)

Thanks, Paul. I really appreciate it a lot.

Since I¹m a sole user of the computer, I had not paid any attention to
identities.

I¹m going to do just as you suggest. The Retrospect stuff is second nature.
Thanks. I¹ll probably leave it in the script for now, since I doubt I¹ll go
back in there very much.

Hmmmm... After 6 months or so, would there be a way of adding another six
months of old stuff to the ³backup² identity? Otherwise, I¹ll be
accumulating a folder full of identities.

In the old days, when a new bit of software arrived, especially anything
from Microsoft, I would make it a point to browse the manual for new and
interesting things. Now stuff is buried in help files, and it seems like
work just to figure out what I might want to learn. Since I¹m pretty solid
at the things that turn out my documents, I have been lax about learning
Office stuff.

One more question for you, if you have a bit more patience...

Is there any advantage to going through the hassle of building archives
instead of accumulating identities. Would searching be easier, for instance?

The archiving and searching really is phenomenally better in Eudora. I have
a fully paid version I have kept updated. I just found that I didn¹t want to
go back to it. It feels incredibly clunky after one gets used to Entourage.

Thanks again.


Best,


- Bill



Just duplicate your identity folder in the Finder. That will preserve
everything as it is, folders and categories included, in this copied identity.
You can always switch identities to that one if you need to go find something.
Use a sophisticated backup app like Retrospect and exclude this copied
identity folder from your sources from incremental backing up. Just back it up
once and leave it be. Even if you go in there from time to time (which will
change the modification date) you won't really be changing anything there so
you don't need to back it up again. Or make it part of a Retrospect backup
script that replaces the backup file every few weeks. In the meantime, in your
main identity, make that custom view for everything over three months old and
delete every thing in it, then compact the database. Back up this identity
every day or so. Repeat this whole process in a year or 6 months.
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

In a few months, you could archive - or just drag out - that custom view of
older email messages, and import it into the archive identity. But you'd
lose categories, folders, received time, accounts of messages and all flags
(replied to, forwarded, etc. etc.). You'd get categories due to linked
contacts-senders, but that's all.

If you really want the best of both worlds, get my Export-Import Entourage X
scripts and run "Messages Export from X" on that Custom View in a few
months' time. In the archive identity, run "Messages Import into X". That
will move all the messages to the correct folders (creating them if
necessary), re-create categories, received time, accounts of messages and
all flags (replied to, forwarded, etc. etc.) Then go back to your regular
identity, select all in the custom view, delete, and compact the regular
database. Tell Retrospect to update/replace the archive identity folder this
one time.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.



From: Bill Weylock <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:31:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Incredible Expanding Database!

That¹s too easy! :)

Thanks, Paul. I really appreciate it a lot.

Since I¹m a sole user of the computer, I had not paid any attention to
identities.

I¹m going to do just as you suggest. The Retrospect stuff is second nature.
Thanks. I¹ll probably leave it in the script for now, since I doubt I¹ll go
back in there very much.

Hmmmm... After 6 months or so, would there be a way of adding another six
months of old stuff to the ³backup² identity? Otherwise, I¹ll be
accumulating a folder full of identities.

In the old days, when a new bit of software arrived, especially anything
from Microsoft, I would make it a point to browse the manual for new and
interesting things. Now stuff is buried in help files, and it seems like
work just to figure out what I might want to learn. Since I¹m pretty solid
at the things that turn out my documents, I have been lax about learning
Office stuff.

One more question for you, if you have a bit more patience...

Is there any advantage to going through the hassle of building archives
instead of accumulating identities. Would searching be easier, for instance?

The archiving and searching really is phenomenally better in Eudora. I have
a fully paid version I have kept updated. I just found that I didn¹t want to
go back to it. It feels incredibly clunky after one gets used to Entourage.

Thanks again.


Best,


- Bill



Just duplicate your identity folder in the Finder. That will preserve
everything as it is, folders and categories included, in this copied identity.
You can always switch identities to that one if you need to go find something.
Use a sophisticated backup app like Retrospect and exclude this copied
identity folder from your sources from incremental backing up. Just back it up
once and leave it be. Even if you go in there from time to time (which will
change the modification date) you won't really be changing anything there so
you don't need to back it up again. Or make it part of a Retrospect backup
script that replaces the backup file every few weeks. In the meantime, in your
main identity, make that custom view for everything over three months old and
delete every thing in it, then compact the database. Back up this identity
every day or so. Repeat this whole process in a year or 6 months.
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
B

Bill Weylock

Paul -

Thanks. I did just download the script package. Probably being able to synch
with Outlook would be the greatest thing. Would I be able to synch in both
directions, as I would want to when I return home from a biz trip?

Bless you for all the work, and I surely do not begrudge you some money for
it.

I¹m very likely to get this at some point soon. Probably after the holidays.

It is royally amazing (can¹t resist) that Entourage does not offer something
so basic as export and archive... Oh well.. :)


Best,


- Bill


In a few months, you could archive - or just drag out - that custom view of
older email messages, and import it into the archive identity. But you'd lose
categories, folders, received time, accounts of messages and all flags
(replied to, forwarded, etc. etc.). You'd get categories due to linked
contacts-senders, but that's all.

If you really want the best of both worlds, get my Export-Import Entourage X
scripts and run "Messages Export from X" on that Custom View in a few months'
time. In the archive identity, run "Messages Import into X". That will move
all the messages to the correct folders (creating them if necessary),
re-create categories, received time, accounts of messages and all flags
(replied to, forwarded, etc. etc.) Then go back to your regular identity,
select all in the custom view, delete, and compact the regular database. Tell
Retrospect to update/replace the archive identity folder this one time.
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
B

Bill Weylock

No, I did not do that.

But when I had the trouble the other day, I rebuilt the database. As far as
I can tell, that deleted the server caches. I had to resubscribe to all the
newsgroups, including this one. That¹s one reason why I had to ask a
question about something I was pretty sure I had seen covered a couple of
months ago.

You seem to find the results surprising but not all that far off the page.
Have you ever actually done this routine with better results? I am guessing
you suggested the process because it should work if I was correct that the
database seemed to have expanded a whole lot from when I started with
Entourage. In fact, I¹ve only been using it regularly since the first time I
posted on this group and you asked me ever so nicely to stop using italics
or you would unleash the hounds of hell. :) I¹m guessing it¹s been about 4 ­
6 months at most.


Best,


- Bill


Did you empty the news server cache before compacting? That can reduce the
size too.
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
J

Jim Karpen-PPC mag

Bill Weylock wrote on 12/21/04 4:00 PM
You seem to find the results surprising but not all that far off the page.
Have you ever actually done this routine with better results? I am guessing
you suggested the process because it should work if I was correct that the
database seemed to have expanded a whole lot from when I started with
Entourage. In fact, I¹ve only been using it regularly since the first time I
posted on this group and you asked me ever so nicely to stop using italics
or you would unleash the hounds of hell. :) I¹m guessing it¹s been about 4 ­
6 months at most.
Click to expand...

I use this procedure for archiving and, yes, I've had better results. That
was for Office X, though. When I did it a year ago, the file size was
reduced from 1.1GB to 140MB.

Each year I duplicate the identity, delete much of the past year's e-mail,
compact the database, and start fresh.

Jim
 
B

Bill Weylock

Darn.

What could this be?

Suppose it could be attachments?

I don¹t even use the calendar.

Come to think of it, though, I did nothing about deleting anything but email
messages. Did I miss something important there? I¹ve put this and that
appointment in the calendar over the past few months, but nothing major. For
the most part I use NowUpToDate.

Very mysterious. For that kind of file size difference, all of this would of
course be well worth going through the whole process (insert slight groan)
again.


Best,


- Bill


Bill Weylock wrote on 12/21/04 4:00 PM


I use this procedure for archiving and, yes, I've had better results. That
was for Office X, though. When I did it a year ago, the file size was
reduced from 1.1GB to 140MB.

Each year I duplicate the identity, delete much of the past year's e-mail,
compact the database, and start fresh.

Jim
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

Attachments, definitely. Calendar events won't add much.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.



From: Bill Weylock <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:58:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Incredible Expanding Database!

Darn.

What could this be?

Suppose it could be attachments?

I don¹t even use the calendar.

Come to think of it, though, I did nothing about deleting anything but email
messages. Did I miss something important there? I¹ve put this and that
appointment in the calendar over the past few months, but nothing major. For
the most part I use NowUpToDate.

Very mysterious. For that kind of file size difference, all of this would of
course be well worth going through the whole process (insert slight groan)
again.


Best,


- Bill


Bill Weylock wrote on 12/21/04 4:00 PM


I use this procedure for archiving and, yes, I've had better results. That
was for Office X, though. When I did it a year ago, the file size was
reduced from 1.1GB to 140MB.

Each year I duplicate the identity, delete much of the past year's e-mail,
compact the database, and start fresh.

Jim
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
B

Bill Weylock

Paul -

I actually had thought about attachments, but it appears they are maintained
in a separate folder within Office. Are they in fact kept within the
database as well or instead?

Seems as if the database would be even larger if that were the case...

Mysterious stuff.


Best,


- Bill


Attachments, definitely. Calendar events won't add much.
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
A

Andy

Hi Bill,

I'm curious to see if there's a soluion here ... I've had the exact
same experience, saw my 1.6 G database only reduced to about 1.45 G.
And the deleted/archived messages had monstrous attachments with them,
which should have reduced the database size dramatically. Hope that we
hear how to make the thing actually shrink -- I'm out of ideas about
it.

- Andy
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

I actually had thought about attachments, but it appears they are maintained
in a separate folder within Office. Are they in fact kept within the database
as well or instead?
Click to expand...
They are only kept in the database unless you choose otherwise. The "Saved
Attachments" folder in the MUD folder is there only as a suggestion - a
convenient place should you want to use it. To remove attachments from
messages you have to both Save them to somewhere (like that folder or
anywhere else you choose) plus remove them from the message.

This could be done automatically by rule:

If
<Attachment< <Exists>

Then
<Save Attachments> to <Saved Attachments>
<Remove Attachments>


The message would then have an Edited flag in the Messages list indicating
something's been done to it, and when you view the message (in 2004) you'll
see an alert in a yellow banner at the top stating that "Such-and-such name"
attachment has been removed on <date>. If several attachments have been
removed there will be a "History" link that will display the whole list of
such descriptions.

However you would no longer have access to the attachment. You'd have to go
looking for it by name in your designated folder. The fact that you don't
have to do that means the attachments is still in the database. If you have
a rule that saves attachments without also removing them that means you've
got two copies of every attachment.

I have a script which I haven't yet released that saves and removes
attachments and also adds a link to the message. You can always do
Tools/Open Links and open the link. That's equivalent to double-clicking the
attachment. I had also hoped to provide a helper script that would just
reveal the saved attachment in its folder (selected there) if that's what
you wanted. (For example, if the attachment came stuffed as a .sit or .zip,
"opening" it just unstuffs it in its folder in the background - you still
have to go looking for it afterwards. The helper script would make that
simple.) But due to a very very bad Entourage bug which did not get fixed
before Office release, attempting to run that helper script would either
crash Entourage or just not work. (The first time crashes, then doesn't
work.) That's why I never released it. I could release it with a simpler
helper script that just opens and displays your designated Attachments
folder without trying to select the linked file. Would that be useful? At
least you'd get the link to the file.

Personally, I find the convenience of being able to access the attachment
directly from the message such that I don't remove the attachments, and I
don't mind that the database gets so large as a result. But then I don't
receive all that many attachments. When I get a particularly huge one I do
in fact save and remove it manually. I can see how people getting hundreds
of large attachments might want to save and remove them by rule. Would my
linking script help?

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.
 
A

Andy

Yes, that script would be great if the goal was to remove attachments
and have them easily accessed from outside the database.

But this is the twist: I'd prefer to create a dupe identity, then
remove (for example) all messages and their attachments before X date,
and then be able to switch identities in order to get to old
messages/attachments. That's the solution you outlined above.

However, for some reason I don't get the desired benefit out of this
strategy ... my database size is still very large, after having removed
all the old messages/attachments. Guess I'm more curious than anything
else: why would database stay large when it's been culled like this?
- Andy

Office 2004
G4
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

However, for some reason I don't get the desired benefit out of this
strategy ... my database size is still very large, after having removed
all the old messages/attachments. Guess I'm more curious than anything
else: why would database stay large when it's been culled like this?
Click to expand...

Because it leaves empty space to be overwritten by new data - which is
actually the best technique. The DB won't grow larger until all the deleted
stuff has been overwritten, and if you keep deleting stuff that's not likely
to happen. Ax a once off, or occasional. method to get the DB size down do a
Compact. Hold down Option (alt) key when launching Entourage and choose
"Compact" in 2004 (in earlier versions choose "Typical" - same thing). When
you're sure all is well after a few days you can trash the old copy folder
from the Office 2004 Identities folder (in earlier versions it's an "Old
Database" file inside the identity folder). Don't do this every day or
anything like that - just once in a while.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.
 
B

Bill Weylock

Paul -


Two separate issues I¹d like to discuss in your post.

One is your position that the database will stay large because it does not
want to relinquish disk space once it has acquired it and that you feel that
is ³the best technique.² Maybe I am missing something, but it seems so far
from the best technique I would suggest it be made illegal. The database
expands and expands and will never ever shrink? Only grow larger? Surely you
jest or misspeak, or I misread you.

The second is the notion that compacting the database will have a helpful
and significant effect.

I deleted 75000 messages, many of which had attachments. Then I compacted
the database. That¹s how I got the size down from 1.42G before deletions and
compaction to 1.31G after.

The process you are suggesting just doesn¹t deliver for us.

And I can¹t figure out why it wouldn¹t.


Best,


- Bill


Because it leaves empty space to be overwritten by new data - which is
actually the best technique. The DB won't grow larger until all the deleted
stuff has been overwritten, and if you keep deleting stuff that's not likely
to happen. Ax a once off, or occasional. method to get the DB size down do a
Compact. Hold down Option (alt) key when launching Entourage and choose
"Compact" in 2004 (in earlier versions choose "Typical" - same thing). When
you're sure all is well after a few days you can trash the old copy folder
from the Office 2004 Identities folder (in earlier versions it's an "Old
Database" file inside the identity folder). Don't do this every day or
anything like that - just once in a while.
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

Two separate issues I¹d like to discuss in your post.

One is your position that the database will stay large because it does not
want to relinquish disk space once it has acquired it and that you feel that
is ³the best technique.² Maybe I am missing something, but it seems so far
from the best technique I would suggest it be made illegal. The database
expands and expands and will never ever shrink? Only grow larger? Surely you
jest or misspeak, or I misread you.
Click to expand...
Bill, go read up about it on the Entourage MVP site. You're
misunderstanding. I'm saying that as a general rule it makes good sense to
delete what you don't need and then let new data gradually overwrite the
"emptied" space. You're going to get back to the same size eventually
anyway. Until you do, it just keeps the same size. This is better technique
than frequently re-writing to disk over and over every time you delete
things - that's not so good for your disk and accomplishes not much.
Naturally, once in a while you might do such a massive deletion that it does
make sense to compact an gain some disk space. After deleting, say, 1 GB
worth of attachments and HTML messages might be such a time.
The second is the notion that compacting the database will have a helpful and
significant effect.
Click to expand...
It depends what you mean by "helpful and significant". If you delete masses
of messages and attachments, then it will significantly reduce the size.
I deleted 75000 messages, many of which had attachments. Then I compacted the
database. That¹s how I got the size down from 1.42G before deletions and
compaction to 1.31G after.
Click to expand...
Then you must still have an awful lot of messages with attachments. Also,
you persists in writing all your messages in HTML. Color adds a huge amount
to the size of text messages. If the replies you get are also in HTML, your
existing messages will still be big. Finally you're on the newsgroups a lot.
You must have an enormous news cache. Compacting (as opposed to doing a full
Rebuild) does not empty the news cache. So do that first, before compacting.
The process you are suggesting just doesn¹t deliver for us.

And I can¹t figure out why it wouldn¹t.
Click to expand...

Because you have a lot more messages, including news messages, than you
think you do, because your messages probably still have tons of enormous
attachments (which can dwarf text message size by about 10000 to 1), and
because the bulk of your messages are HTML.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.
 
B

Bill Weylock

Paul -


Thanks. We have to be getting very close to the end on this, but not quite
yet.

You were suggesting that one NOT compact after purging? I can get the point
of that academically, but do you remember why we started the thread? It was
about shrinking the database. You advised doing what I did. Now, when it
doesn¹t seem to have much effect, you suggest that shrinking databases is
bad policy anyway? I¹m grinning as I type that because it doesn¹t seem like
totally fair debating. :)

But you¹re right about everything else, so that couldn¹t matter much less.

All that aside, your diagnosis is spot on. The recent stuff, which is what I
saved in the new compacted database, is much larger than the older stuff I
purged.

I just searched for everything in the database newer than 500 days and
(being stubborn and also interested) added up very roughly the size of the
found set. Guess what? 1.26 GB.

When I saw that there was a ³saved attachments² folder, I figured that
attachments were separate from messages and linked by path and name). That¹s
the way Eudora handles them. If I had known (and yes the information is
readily available but one doesn¹t look for what one doesn¹t know one needs)
that the attachments are stored as part of the messages, I would not have
been so surprised.

I haven¹t been using Entourage as my default email program for all that
long. So all of the messages I purged were old imports from Eudora. Most of
them are probably under 10K.

As far as not using html... Great idea except for one thing. The only reason
I¹m using Entourage instead of Eudora, which is FAR superior in file
management, search engine, options, and feature sets is because of
Entourage¹s ability to handle html email. If I¹m going plain text, I¹m outa
here.

So I¹ll get used to enormous databases ­ until Eudora pulls it together with
html or Microsoft desides to give us a fully featured (minimally including a
way to archive messages without losing organizing principles) email program
in Entourage or (more appropriately) a good Mac port of Outlook.

If I weren¹t trying to avoid the department stores today, I wouldn¹t have
gone on so long.

I promise.

Thanks!


Best,


- Bill




Bill, go read up about it on the Entourage MVP site. You're misunderstanding.
I'm saying that as a general rule it makes good sense to delete what you don't
need and then let new data gradually overwrite the "emptied" space. You're
going to get back to the same size eventually anyway. Until you do, it just
keeps the same size. This is better technique than frequently re-writing to
disk over and over every time you delete things - that's not so good for your
disk and accomplishes not much. Naturally, once in a while you might do such a
massive deletion that it does make sense to compact an gain some disk space.
After deleting, say, 1 GB worth of attachments and HTML messages might be such
a time.
It depends what you mean by "helpful and significant". If you delete masses of
messages and attachments, then it will significantly reduce the size.
Then you must still have an awful lot of messages with attachments. Also, you
persists in writing all your messages in HTML. Color adds a huge amount to the
size of text messages. If the replies you get are also in HTML, your existing
messages will still be big. Finally you're on the newsgroups a lot. You must
have an enormous news cache. Compacting (as opposed to doing a full Rebuild)
does not empty the news cache. So do that first, before compacting.

Because you have a lot more messages, including news messages, than you think
you do, because your messages probably still have tons of enormous attachments
(which can dwarf text message size by about 10000 to 1), and because the bulk
of your messages are HTML.
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
A

Andy

Well said Bill. I'm surmising that a more complete purging (i.e., new
identity that only includes for example the past 180 days of email)
will make a bigger difference in database size, but perhaps never as
big a difference as I'd want/expect. Nevertheless this has been an
instructive thread ...

- Andy
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

You were suggesting that one NOT compact after purging? I can get the point of
that academically, but do you remember why we started the thread? It was about
shrinking the database. You advised doing what I did. Now, when it doesn¹t
seem to have much effect, you suggest that shrinking databases is bad policy
anyway? I¹m grinning as I type that because it doesn¹t seem like totally fair
debating. :)
Click to expand...

I said not to compact as a general rule, once you've got a routine going.
But certainly to compact once in a while for the specific purpose of
reducing the size if you're short of disk space, of course. Get rid of those
enormous attachments and unneeded messages now, compact now, and then get in
a routine where you empty the trash regularly but don't compact unless and
until you get to an extreme situation again. Right.

Yes, Entourage has a completely different system from Eudora or other
old-fashioned apps like Claris Emailer. The whole point of Entourage is its
database. It's not just an email/news reader. All its items - calendar
events, tasks, notes, contacts, groups, messages, categories, projects - are
all designed to work together, with links, some automatic. Gradually they
have been making the database more and more efficient and faster. certainly
this whole system makes best sense on modern computers with large hard
drives where an extra 500 MB needed for the Entourage database now and then
is easily available and well worth it. If you don't think you'll need
immediate direct access from your older messages to the attachments that
came with them then start removing them. You can make that rule (save and
remove attachments), then select all the messages in your folders and run
the rule on those messages - it will reduce the size of your database
greatly after a subsequent compact. Or you can wait for my script if you
want the links too.


--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
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B

Bill Weylock

Well, we certainly have this handled.

The only thing I still think needs stressing is that if they are going to
give us a truly ³modern² program with all these complexities, they should
give us a way to manage the database. Even your script, as good as it
doubtless is, does not do everything I would want: send everything to an
archive that will sit there until needed, and when accessed will give us
everything we had before: all links, contacts, attachments, everything.

Additionally, they should give us a way to detach attachments to a separate
folder for a range of messages.

I have tons of disk space left. The only issue is that the Retrospect
archives increase by leaps and bounds because of the ever-changing large
database file. Now that I know there is no good cure, though, I¹ll just
live with that. I definitely am going to continue backing up every day, and
Entourage isn¹t going to change, so there we are.

I agree that it¹s worth sticking with Entourage and will do that. I just
think they need to do better by us.

Happy Holidays!

Signing off for a while to do last minute shopping (the kind I enjoy best
really).


Best,


- Bill


I said not to compact as a general rule, once you've got a routine going. But
certainly to compact once in a while for the specific purpose of reducing the
size if you're short of disk space, of course. Get rid of those enormous
attachments and unneeded messages now, compact now, and then get in a routine
where you empty the trash regularly but don't compact unless and until you get
to an extreme situation again. Right.

Yes, Entourage has a completely different system from Eudora or other
old-fashioned apps like Claris Emailer. The whole point of Entourage is its
database. It's not just an email/news reader. All its items - calendar events,
tasks, notes, contacts, groups, messages, categories, projects - are all
designed to work together, with links, some automatic. Gradually they have
been making the database more and more efficient and faster. certainly this
whole system makes best sense on modern computers with large hard drives where
an extra 500 MB needed for the Entourage database now and then is easily
available and well worth it. If you don't think you'll need immediate direct
access from your older messages to the attachments that came with them then
start removing them. You can make that rule (save and remove attachments),
then select all the messages in your folders and run the rule on those
messages - it will reduce the size of your database greatly after a subsequent
compact. Or you can wait for my script if you want the links too.
Click to expand...




Panther 10.3.6
Office 2004
Windows XP Pro SP2
Office 2003
 
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