Life-Cycle of MS Access?

[dbahooker]

Larry

and just for the record; SQL Server is a LOT more powerful than MDB.

I'm sorry that you're one of those ADP-wimp MVPs

go play with your little baby MDBs little script kiddie

 

[Roger Carlson]

Actually, an MDB does not have to have tables. All of my applications are
split into a Front-end/Back-end. The Back-end has the tables and a
Front-end has everything else. And no, everyone does not know that running
an MDB across a network is a big no-no. Most of us here do it all the time.

I am currently working on an application that uses disparate data sources:
SQL Server, Excel spreadsheets, and text files all linked in as tables. In
addition to that, I have some native Access tables. This simply could not
be done in an ADP. "Better" is a relative term that only has meaning in
some context. In this context, an MDB is better. In other contexts, an ADP
would be better.

--
--Roger Carlson
Access Database Samples: www.rogersaccesslibrary.com
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[dbahooker]

Roger

you actually run a front end against a backend and you keep MDB tables
on fileserver?

god; you know it's 2005; not 1992 right?

isn't performance just AWFUL??

If you think that ADP are 'better' at some things-- then you assholes
should start using them.

they're BETTER at
a) scalability
b) reliability
c) dll hell
d) versioning of tables and queries
e) performance
f) deployment (no DSNs, no linking; none of that BS)

so what else is there again?

so you little wimp developers 'like MDB better'?

what about the end users?

 

[dbahooker]

disparate data sources?

keep all your shit in one place instead of always translating between
different mdbs.. making temp tables-- shit you guys know that there is
a MUCH easier way right??

keep everyting in SQL Server; it's about a dozen times easier

-aaron

 

[dbahooker]

This is stupid, you use the database format which is appropriate for
the
application, for small standalone or small workgroup applications
Access is
quite adequate. Overkill is just as daft as underspecifcation.


ACCESS ISN'T ADEQUATE FOR WHAT YOU GUYS ASK OF IT

SPREADSHEET DORKS ARE TAKING OVER THE WORLD BECAUSE YOU GUYS CHOOSE TO
USE MDB INSTEAD OF ADP. AND MDB IS TOO BUGGY FOR ANYONE TO USE IN REAL
WORLD IMPLEMENTATIONS-- FOR ANYTHING.

I mean-- come on guys.. do you really like MDB?

what do you guys not like about ADP?

 

[Rick Brandt]

This is stupid, you use the database format which is appropriate for
the
application, for small standalone or small workgroup applications
Access is
quite adequate. Overkill is just as daft as underspecifcation.


ACCESS ISN'T ADEQUATE FOR WHAT YOU GUYS ASK OF IT

SPREADSHEET DORKS ARE TAKING OVER THE WORLD BECAUSE YOU GUYS CHOOSE TO
USE MDB INSTEAD OF ADP. AND MDB IS TOO BUGGY FOR ANYONE TO USE IN
REAL WORLD IMPLEMENTATIONS-- FOR ANYTHING.

I mean-- come on guys.. do you really like MDB?

what do you guys not like about ADP?

Okay clearly you are just trolling. nobody could be this stupid.

Using an MDB does not necessarily mean "data stored in jet files" yet you
keep going on as if that were the case. You also operate from the
assumption that the application developer gets to decide where the data is
stored. Most of our corporate data is in UDB400 on an IBM ISeries box.
Guess what? I couldn't use an ADP for that even if they weren't full of bugs
(which they are). Others use Oracle, MySQL,Firebird, and many other
"server" database engines for which an ADP is NOT an option.

If a business is currently using SQL Server the use of ADPs assumes that
this will never change. If I have a few thousand man-hours in an MDB
application and the company decides to move to a different back end all I
have to do is make a few changes. If those hours were spent on an ADP then
I am starting all over.

Even if all of the technical merits you ascribe to ADPs were true, it is the
BETA-MAX of platforms. The user-base has made its choice and ADP is not it.
Get over it.

 

[dbahooker]

fucknut

it isn't the betamax-- sql server has increased in marketshare-- like
it's tripled in the past 5 years

who are you to say that more people aren't using ADP?

a few thousand hours into an MDB makes a piece of shit app that you're
tied to-- even when it should be retired.

a few hundred hours into a ADP gives you a fast, reliable-- scalable
solution...

ADP are much better at binding that SQL... simple bound forms and
reports-- ADP kicks MDBs' ass.

And I'm sorry that you work for a stodgy company with an obsolete
mainframe.

Start building apps that WORK and maybe they'll stop having a bad idea
of MS database technologies.

I mean seriously-- Maybe if your little baby MDB didnt run like crap;
maybe they would be using SQL Server.. you ever think about it that
way?

ADP is a much better solution --- for end users.

And you wimp developers aren't willing to even give ADP a try.

Makes me fucking sick to think that all you Access people are wimps
just like Excel dorks.

If you're not ready to be a full time developer; get the hell out of
your job.

If you're willing to commit yourself; do it on SQL Server-- so it will
be relevant 10 years from now.

I dont' beleive that the userbase has made their choice.

I think that MVPs are a bunch of wusses for not helping people to learn
this technology.

And I think that MS is losing the database war because they're not
pushing these things.. I mean-- they friggin rock.. .Do you know the
difference between a bunch of DB2 geeks building RPG and a couple of Jr
Access Developers that are coached on ADP?

The difference is that one can cut and paste objects-- ADP allows you
to write views and sprocs-- IN FUCKING DESIGN VIEW

I'm just sick and tired of finding more and more ACCESS BUGS-- so I get
off on writign views and sprocs-- keeping them all in one place isntead
of makign end users wait 30 seconds to open apps or run a report.

ADP are a much better solution.. and SQL Server is taking over the
world.

I'm sorry that you idiots you work for bought a $10 million database
server; and now they can't afford a $5k database server.

I'm sorry that you guys have legacy apps.

but writing the wrong reporting platforms TODAY-- is still the wrong
choice.

SQL Server is a much better data store than MDB. 'oh, but i can link
to DB2' fucking idiot you can link to db2 through SQL Server also if
you must

 

[Craig Alexander Morrison]

You missed the point!

ADPs cannot run against DB2 (who would want to use a "kiddie toy" like SQL
Server (vbg) when you've got DB2?)

MDE and DB2, rapid and robust.

Of course if anyone ever comes up with something better than DB2 then you
can use your MDB/MDE with that.

ADPs are dead, and they broke the spirit of the original design goals of
Access.

One of the primary goals when Access was designed was to "...work with data
regardless of database format or architecture."

 

[aaron.kempf]

Slainte

you're fucking kidding me right?

I'll take SQL Server against DB2 performance wise any day of the week.
I choose SQL Server over DB2 as does 2/3 of www.tpc.org

Of course-- I'll be using OLAP-- ANALYSIS SERVICES which is built into
SQL Standard and costs a billion dollars if you're an IBM shop

SUMMARIES OF BILLIONS OF RECORDS IN SUB-SECOND RESPONSE TIMES in the
Sql Server world. For what $6k per processor?

IBM won't even screw you in the ass for less than $100k (other than
charging $1200 for DB2 express-- similiar to MSDE which is free)

I just dont agree with having Oracle and DB2 and mySql and all that
crap.
I mean-- aren't you guys TIRED of running around installing drivers on
every machine?

SQL Server-- ACCESS DATA PROJECTS-- are the best, highest performance
data entry tool in the world.

How many forms in DB2 can you right click and 'sort descending'.

That is the thing about Access Data Projects-- they are the best
environment from an end users perspective. And a developers
perspective.

Rather than having a half dozen dinosaurs writing RPG; you can have
kids write ADP because it's all drag and drop and wisywig and multiple
choice.

I really honestly could give a rats ass about keeping shit in DB2.
With DTS-- A REAL ETL TOOL THAT AGAIN _COMES_ with SQL SERVER-- you can
import your precious data out of your precious DB2 on a scheduled basis
without writing a goddamn line of code. It takes about 5 mouse
clicks.

I just am sick and tired of all this MDB flakiness; and I've had
tremendous success with ADP. I have build 40 ADP in my day; and I use
them every day for designing views and sprocs.

meanwhile; you kids are stuck in 1994 writing queries that are
SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW and unpredictable.

you guys all have to google error messages when you're writing a query
and access throws a tissyfit.

In ADP-- when Access throws a tissyfit; i can use Query Analyzer and it
gives me THE ANSWER.

Slainte-- I'm so glad that you fight for the pink team
get a real database instead of 2 crap databases (mdb and db2).

I mean-- should it really cost a MILLION DOLLARS to buy a database for
a midsize company???

SQL Server is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO reasonably priced compared to being
tied into IBM hardware. That is why in SQL Server shops; they have
space to GROW NEW APPS INTO A REAL DATABASE instead of relying on crap
db2 and crap mdb.

 

[Gabi M]

Question ??
Will Access 12 incorporate .NET technologies ? It seems the answer is NO.
Working with XML database is a MUST.

 

[Brendan Reynolds]

Can't comment on what might be in Office 12 beyond what Microsoft has
officially stated. See ...

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/office/default.mspx

http://msaccessadvisor.com is another good resource. Many articles are only
available to subscribers, but here's one about Office 12 that's available to
all ...

http://msaccessadvisor.com/doc/17074

That said, Access 2003 already has significant support for XML. If you're
having a problem doing something with XML in Access 2003, if you describe
the problem someone here may be able to help.

 

[aaron.kempf]

Brendan

i still dont get where you idiots get off ADDING FUNCTIONALTY when
Access is still buggy as hell.

I mean-- go back to the basics and screw XML
I've got faster performance out of databases; any day of the week

 

[Tony Toews]

and everyone knows that running MDB against other MDBs across a network
is a big performance no-no

Hmm, have you followed the steps at Access Performance FAQ page at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/performancefaq.htm

that's the goddamn problem with MDB-- it's impossible to
maintain/deploy/manage and have decent performance

Rubbish. I have one client with 25 users on all day long and they
have good performance. With 600K and 400K records in some tables.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

 

[Tony Toews]

ACCESS ISN'T ADEQUATE FOR WHAT YOU GUYS ASK OF IT

Umm, Access works and works well. Are you the kind of person who
blames the tools?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

 

[Tony Toews]

and just for the record; SQL Server is a LOT more powerful than MDB.

I'm sorry that you're one of those ADP-wimp MVPs

go play with your little baby MDBs little script kiddie

Larry, a script kiddie? BWAHAHAHA. I've met Larry. He's no script
kiddie?

Hey, Larry, how many years experience you got? 45? Sure beats my 25
years.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

 

[Tony Toews]

database portability?

MSDE ON THE DESKTOP!!!!

Ahhh, and backups would happen how?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

 

[Paul Clement]

¤ database portability?
¤
¤ MSDE ON THE DESKTOP!!!!

That's not my definition of portability. MSDE is not a fully contained database application that
you can easily move from one system to another.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)