Master and Subprojects - Duplicate Tasks Entries in "Resource Usag

[Mike Oberneder]

I'm new to using Master and subprojects, and its very frustrating. I'm
starting to think MS Project isn't stable in its handling of subprojects, but
I very much hope its me (operator error). I have about 5 projects that I
inserted (via Insert - Project) into a Master project. Lets call this the
master file "Master Action Chits". Then I have 2 other projects, lets call
them Projects A and B. I created another Master project, lets call this
"Master Project Roll-up" in which I in inserted (via insert - project) the
"Master Action Chits", and projects A & B. First question, is it okay to
insert a Master, into a Master? In this case inserting "Master Action
Chits", into "Master Project Roll-up"? I assume its okay. It seems though,
I have trouble in that sometimes when I go to the "Resource Usage" view, I'll
get repeated tasks for the same person. For example, I might have the task
"Update Publication", appear twice under Bob Smith. Of course, the cost is
now doubled too! I don't always get this problem, and hope that I'm doing
something wrong. Please help me learn how to do it right. Also, I never
know which to close first, the Master Project, a subproject (if I have that
open for some reason), and the "Resource Pool" file. I don't want to loose
data, and think that I already have on some occassions. Is there a preferred
method when opening and closing these files? I have struggled for a few
weeks now, before posting here. I believe that when creating the subproject
files, I have first shared them with the resource pool file, which I believe
is correct per Mike Glenn's web-site, to prevent duplicates. Yet I have
duplicates. I think I have opened either the Master, or a subproject without
opening the pool. Would that cause duplicates? If so, how? I need to
understand the protocol, the "method" to use when handling the master
project, the resource pool file, and any subprojects (if opened). Thasks
very much for your help!!

 

[davegb]

I'm new to using Master and subprojects, and its very frustrating. I'm
starting to think MS Project isn't stable in its handling of subprojects, but
I very much hope its me (operator error). I have about 5 projects that I
inserted (via Insert - Project) into a Master project. Lets call this the
master file "Master Action Chits". Then I have 2 other projects, lets call
them Projects A and B. I created another Master project, lets call this
"Master Project Roll-up" in which I in inserted (via insert - project) the
"Master Action Chits", and projects A & B. First question, is it okay to
insert a Master, into a Master? In this case inserting "Master Action
Chits", into "Master Project Roll-up"? I assume its okay. It seems though,
I have trouble in that sometimes when I go to the "Resource Usage" view, I'll
get repeated tasks for the same person. For example, I might have the task
"Update Publication", appear twice under Bob Smith. Of course, the cost is
now doubled too! I don't always get this problem, and hope that I'm doing
something wrong. Please help me learn how to do it right. Also, I never
know which to close first, the Master Project, a subproject (if I have that
open for some reason), and the "Resource Pool" file. I don't want to loose
data, and think that I already have on some occassions. Is there a preferred
method when opening and closing these files? I have struggled for a few
weeks now, before posting here. I believe that when creating the subproject
files, I have first shared them with the resource pool file, which I believe
is correct per Mike Glenn's web-site, to prevent duplicates. Yet I have
duplicates. I think I have opened either the Master, or a subproject without
opening the pool. Would that cause duplicates? If so, how? I need to
understand the protocol, the "method" to use when handling the master
project, the resource pool file, and any subprojects (if opened). Thasks
very much for your help!!

I have observed instability in using Master Projects and Resource
Pools, as have others. I don't know what causes it because I wasn't
there when the files were created and the Master Project created from
them. I do know that the ones I've observed haven't used a strict set
of protocols for creating and removing these files from the Master
Project that I believe would help with this problem. Others may have
different ideas to suggest and I look forward to comparing notes on
this.

I suggest you create the individual files for each project, then
create a separate Resource Pool (RP) and have the project files share
that RP. (In your case, I would copy the entire file for each of the
existing ones into a new file, in case there's been some kind of
corruption) Once you've created the individual files and the RP, the
use Project's option that you'll see when you open the RP to create
the Master Project. You don't need to create it separately, let
Project do it for you.

Later, when it comes time to remove a project from the Master, do it
by removing the link to the RP, then re-create the Master Project
using the option when opening the RP. Make sure you do this the same
way every time.

As for Master files within Master files, maybe someone else has
experience with that. I've seen enough problems with Master Projects
and RPs that I wouldn't push my luck by nesting them.

Hope this helps in your world.

 

[John]

I'm new to using Master and subprojects, and its very frustrating. I'm
starting to think MS Project isn't stable in its handling of subprojects, but
I very much hope its me (operator error). I have about 5 projects that I
inserted (via Insert - Project) into a Master project. Lets call this the
master file "Master Action Chits". Then I have 2 other projects, lets call
them Projects A and B. I created another Master project, lets call this
"Master Project Roll-up" in which I in inserted (via insert - project) the
"Master Action Chits", and projects A & B. First question, is it okay to
insert a Master, into a Master? In this case inserting "Master Action
Chits", into "Master Project Roll-up"? I assume its okay. It seems though,
I have trouble in that sometimes when I go to the "Resource Usage" view, I'll
get repeated tasks for the same person. For example, I might have the task
"Update Publication", appear twice under Bob Smith. Of course, the cost is
now doubled too! I don't always get this problem, and hope that I'm doing
something wrong. Please help me learn how to do it right. Also, I never
know which to close first, the Master Project, a subproject (if I have that
open for some reason), and the "Resource Pool" file. I don't want to loose
data, and think that I already have on some occassions. Is there a preferred
method when opening and closing these files? I have struggled for a few
weeks now, before posting here. I believe that when creating the subproject
files, I have first shared them with the resource pool file, which I believe
is correct per Mike Glenn's web-site, to prevent duplicates. Yet I have
duplicates. I think I have opened either the Master, or a subproject without
opening the pool. Would that cause duplicates? If so, how? I need to
understand the protocol, the "method" to use when handling the master
project, the resource pool file, and any subprojects (if opened). Thasks
very much for your help!!

Mike,
Let me add a few comments in addition to the advice Dave gave. First,
there is no problem, (at least I haven't experienced any), with nested
consolidation. One of my test files has four subprojects - one and four
are inserted directly into the master (which is also the resource pool).
Subproject two is inserted into subproject one, and subproject three is
inserted into subproject two.

I always create my consolidation files using Insert/Project - a little
difference than what Dave suggests. If I edit any data I always use Save
As to save the subproject first and then the master. Using Save As helps
keep bloat minimized. It is also important to keep all files in the same
directory - don't move them around - it invites corruption of the links.

I agree with Dave that you probably should re-build your files to clear
corruption, but don't use a copy and paste process. Rather, go to our
MVP website at, http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm, and use method 4
of FAQ 43 - Handling project file corruption and/or bloat. If you have
links between tasks in subprojects (i.e. external predecessors), the
process is more complicated since you will need to insure they do not
get corrupted.

Hope this helps.
John
Project MVP

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi Mike,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

You need to know that a Master file just contains placeholders for the
projects and each project remains unique. Thus there is no need to create
nested files, just insert the 2 projects into the original master. If you
want to examine the 2 project separately, then I would delete the first
master and create another master. They are so quick to produce (vba would
be even quicker) and I wouldn't like to speculate any possible interference
if you nest masters (your duplication may well be cause by this). My quick
experiment in opening a second master with the same resource pool,
duplicated the resources in the resource pool file.

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for Project Tutorials

 

[Mike Oberneder]

Dave, John, and Mike Glen,
Thanks so much to all of you for responding so quickly. This is such a
help, and what a nice support group - all of us sharing our difficulties, and
learning from each other! Of course it helps greatly that those so
knowledgeable in the Microsoft products take the time to read and help out
the rest of us. Thanks very much for your advice. I'm going to ask some
more questions here, and I hope you don't mind taking the time to read and
respond. Perhaps you've answered some of these in your initial response to
me, and it just isn't clear yet in my mind. I've got a few questions in the
paragraphs that follow.

I will not nest master projects, and see if that helps. One thing I've
noticed is that when I save a master, it then asks me if I want to save to
all my subprojects. Then when I try to close my Master it asks me again if I
want to save my changes. I just pressed the save button so I don't
understand why its asking again. I'm still confused too if I should save my
Resource Pool file first? Does it make a difference? Also does it matter
whether project file or the Resource Pool file is opened first? Normally I
open the project (or Master Project) file first. Then I have 3 choices for
the Resource Pool file (Read only, Read/Write, and to Open all files). I
always click on the 1st button, allowing a "read only" of the Resource Pool.
Could that be causing my duplication, since I'm not clicking on the 2nd
button, permitting a "read/write" to the Resource Pool? My understanding is
that even in the read only mode, the Master Project still writes to the
Resource Pool. Not sure when to use the 2nd button (read/write).

Another area of confusion for me is if I once open a project and its
associated Resource Pool, should they remain "shared" all the time they are
open? In other words, if I go to "Tools", "Share Resources" and allow my
project to "use own resources", am I asking for trouble, since the Resource
Pool is open? Can the action of halting the sharing cause duplicates? Or,
can the act of enabling the resource sharing (after they have been
disconnected), cause duplicates whether or not I've saved the project before
allowing the "sharing" to again take place?

I realize that it may help (faster speed?) to not open the Resource Pool
right from the start if you're not adding any resources, perhaps only making
changes to the schedule. But once both are open, is there ever a vaild
reason to sever the connection to the Resource Pool file when both files are
already open?

I assume there is no valid reason to open a subproject if I'm already
working in the Master project. Is that correct? If not, and there is a
reason to open the subproject, what is the reason(s)? If its valid to open a
subproject, then should the subproject be saved before the Master? Mike Glen
said the Master is just a place holder, and all projects are unique. If
thats the case, I don't see a need to ever open a subproject - simply work
with the Master project, as long as I'm allowing the changes to work both
ways.

Thanks again to all of you for your time and advice!

Mike Oberneder

 

[John]

Mike,
First, you're welcome and thanks for the feedback.

Before I address your latest questions let me say that each of us most
likely has a different experience base when working with linked Project
files. My comments are based on my experience - I haven't necessarily
seen all variations of how Project will respond.

I will not nest master projects, and see if that helps. One thing I've
noticed is that when I save a master, it then asks me if I want to save to
all my subprojects. Then when I try to close my Master it asks me again if I
want to save my changes. I just pressed the save button so I don't
understand why its asking again.

[John] I've always been a little confused by this also but here is what
I believe is happening. If the other guys have a better explanation, I'm
all ears. Even though as Mike said, the master only contains pointers to
the subprojects, edits to tasks in those subprojects does in fact impact
the master link structure. The first "Save" you see is for the actual
subprojects and the "Save" you see when you close the master is for the
resulting changes to the link structure.

I'm still confused too if I should save my

Resource Pool file first? Does it make a difference?

[John] With a linked file structure I always try to save the destination
file first, then the source file. In the case of a master resource pool,
the sharer files are the destination, the pool file is the source. I
can't honestly say the save sequence matters, but I believe consistency
in how you work with linked projects is the best approach.

Also does it matter

whether project file or the Resource Pool file is opened first? Normally I
open the project (or Master Project) file first. Then I have 3 choices for
the Resource Pool file (Read only, Read/Write, and to Open all files). I
always click on the 1st button, allowing a "read only" of the Resource Pool.
Could that be causing my duplication, since I'm not clicking on the 2nd
button, permitting a "read/write" to the Resource Pool? My understanding is
that even in the read only mode, the Master Project still writes to the
Resource Pool. Not sure when to use the 2nd button (read/write).

[John] I always choose the 2nd option. From my view, the only reason to
use the first option is if you are only going to view the files and not
make any edits. As I said, edits change the link structure, and to
maintain a clean link structure you want all files open for write access.

Another area of confusion for me is if I once open a project and its
associated Resource Pool, should they remain "shared" all the time they are
open? In other words, if I go to "Tools", "Share Resources" and allow my
project to "use own resources", am I asking for trouble, since the Resource
Pool is open? Can the action of halting the sharing cause duplicates? Or,
can the act of enabling the resource sharing (after they have been
disconnected), cause duplicates whether or not I've saved the project before
allowing the "sharing" to again take place?

[John] I don't have a lot of experience with this but in order to
minimize the chance for corruption I would not be switching between
resource pool resources and sharer file resources. Decide which resource
structure you are going to use at the beginning and then stick with it.
Remember, consistency.

I realize that it may help (faster speed?) to not open the Resource Pool
right from the start if you're not adding any resources, perhaps only making
changes to the schedule. But once both are open, is there ever a vaild
reason to sever the connection to the Resource Pool file when both files are
already open?

[John] The resource pool file contains more than just the resource data,
it also contains assignment data. If you "only" change the schedule in a
sharer file it may result in changes to the assignments. I would NOT
sever the link to the resource pool unless you intend to re-structure
the sharer files to use their own resources on a permanent basis.

I assume there is no valid reason to open a subproject if I'm already
working in the Master project. Is that correct? If not, and there is a
reason to open the subproject, what is the reason(s)? If its valid to open a
subproject, then should the subproject be saved before the Master? Mike Glen
said the Master is just a place holder, and all projects are unique. If
thats the case, I don't see a need to ever open a subproject - simply work
with the Master project, as long as I'm allowing the changes to work both
ways.

[John] You might notice that Project will open subprojects in the
background when you expand them in the master (look at the status bar at
the bottom of the window while opening the master). If you "open" them
separately you are simply putting them in the foreground. As far as the
saving sequence, see my comment above.

John
Project MVP

 

[davegb]

Mike,
First, you're welcome and thanks for the feedback.

Before I address your latest questions let me say that each of us most
likely has a different experience base when working with linked Project
files. My comments are based on my experience - I haven't necessarily
seen all variations of how Project will respond.

I will not nest master projects, and see if that helps. One thing I've
noticed is that when I save a master, it then asks me if I want to save to
all my subprojects. Then when I try to close my Master it asks me again if I
want to save my changes. I just pressed the save button so I don't
understand why its asking again.

[John] I've always been a little confused by this also but here is what
I believe is happening. If the other guys have a better explanation, I'm
all ears. Even though as Mike said, the master only contains pointers to
the subprojects, edits to tasks in those subprojects does in fact impact
the master link structure. The first "Save" you see is for the actual
subprojects and the "Save" you see when you close the master is for the
resulting changes to the link structure.

I'm still confused too if I should save my> Resource Pool file first? Does it make a difference?

[John] With a linked file structure I always try to save the destination
file first, then the source file. In the case of a master resource pool,
the sharer files are the destination, the pool file is the source. I
can't honestly say the save sequence matters, but I believe consistency
in how you work with linked projects is the best approach.

Also does it matter> whether project file or the Resource Pool file is opened first? Normally I

open the project (or Master Project) file first. Then I have 3 choices for
the Resource Pool file (Read only, Read/Write, and to Open all files). I
always click on the 1st button, allowing a "read only" of the Resource Pool.
Could that be causing my duplication, since I'm not clicking on the 2nd
button, permitting a "read/write" to the Resource Pool? My understanding is
that even in the read only mode, the Master Project still writes to the
Resource Pool. Not sure when to use the 2nd button (read/write).

[John] I always choose the 2nd option. From my view, the only reason to
use the first option is if you are only going to view the files and not
make any edits. As I said, edits change the link structure, and to
maintain a clean link structure you want all files open for write access.

Another area of confusion for me is if I once open a project and its
associated Resource Pool, should they remain "shared" all the time they are
open? In other words, if I go to "Tools", "Share Resources" and allow my
project to "use own resources", am I asking for trouble, since the Resource
Pool is open? Can the action of halting the sharing cause duplicates? Or,
can the act of enabling the resource sharing (after they have been
disconnected), cause duplicates whether or not I've saved the project before
allowing the "sharing" to again take place?

[John] I don't have a lot of experience with this but in order to
minimize the chance for corruption I would not be switching between
resource pool resources and sharer file resources. Decide which resource
structure you are going to use at the beginning and then stick with it.
Remember, consistency.

I realize that it may help (faster speed?) to not open the Resource Pool
right from the start if you're not adding any resources, perhaps only making
changes to the schedule. But once both are open, is there ever a vaild
reason to sever the connection to the Resource Pool file when both files are
already open?

[John] The resource pool file contains more than just the resource data,
it also contains assignment data. If you "only" change the schedule in a
sharer file it may result in changes to the assignments. I would NOT
sever the link to the resource pool unless you intend to re-structure
the sharer files to use their own resources on a permanent basis.

I assume there is no valid reason to open a subproject if I'm already
working in the Master project. Is that correct? If not, and there is a
reason to open the subproject, what is the reason(s)? If its valid to open a
subproject, then should the subproject be saved before the Master? Mike Glen
said the Master is just a place holder, and all projects are unique. If
thats the case, I don't see a need to ever open a subproject - simply work
with the Master project, as long as I'm allowing the changes to work both
ways.

[John] You might notice that Project will open subprojects in the
background when you expand them in the master (look at the status bar at
the bottom of the window while opening the master). If you "open" them
separately you are simply putting them in the foreground. As far as the
saving sequence, see my comment above.

John
Project MVP

"Mike Oberneder" wrote:

- Show quoted text -

I echo John's reply. And I agree that consistency with handling Master
Projects/Resource Pools is the key.