message in search not in folder

[juliabell]

Version: 2004
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel
Email Client: imap

If I search for messages from a particular sender, I find several messages in the inbox in the search results.

But, when I view the full contents of the inbox, none of those messages are visible in the inbox.

I don't know if it is isolated to that one sender or there may be others that I just don't know to search for.

Why are all of the messages that are available to the 'search' not available directly in the folder?

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

If I search for messages from a particular sender, I find several
messages in the inbox in the search results.

But, when I view the full contents of the inbox, none of those messages
are visible in the inbox.

it could be a corruption issue. Relaunch Entourage pressing the Option
key down to rebuild your database,

Corentin

 

[juliabell]

I see the same inbox when I access my files via Entourage or via the web interface that my organization provides me to access the files on the Exchange server (the messages are missing).

So, I believe that means the database on my local machine (running Entourage) can't be the problem since that web interface is entirely independent of my local machine.

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

So, I believe that means the database on my local machine (running
Entourage) can't be the problem since that web interface is entirely
independent of my local machine.

It could be the Spotlight cache then,
You could force-rebuild through the Entourage preferences.

Corenitn

 

[juliabell]

I'm sorry. I'm still not following.

If I'm accessing the information on the Exchange server via a website, and still seeing missing messages, then how does Spotlight play into that? I thought that would be entirely independent of anything on my local machine where my Entourage-access database is stored or any of my local cache?

I'm not necessarily opposed to trying to rebuild the database or clear cache (I've already cleared the local Entourage cache, but it didn't help). But, I'm extremely concerned that I might lose the limited access that I already have to these messages (and any others that are hidden that I don't even know about) if I try some of these things. So, I don't want to try them unless I understand why it might help.

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

I'm sorry. I'm still not following.

I must have misunderstood something.

If I'm accessing the information on the Exchange server via a website,
and still seeing missing messages, then how does Spotlight play into
that?

If you can find the message through a search in Entourage, see the
corresponding message in your inbox on OWA but not in Entourage, then it
would indicate a corruption of your Entourage databasse (failing to
display some messages in the inbox), requiring a rebuild of the
database.

If I'm not mistaking, that's what you indicated in your first post.
Then in your second post you said
"I see the same inbox when I access my files via Entourage or via the
web interface that my organization provides me to access the files on
the Exchange server (the messages are missing)."

and I udnerstood that your inbox were the same in Entourage and OWA,
meaning that the messages were only listed in a search.
Since searches require Spotlight, it could have been a faulty Spotlight
indexing, requiring a rebuild of the Spotlight index.

I thought that would be entirely independent of anything on my
local machine where my Entourage-access database is stored or any of my
local cache?

There is a local cache of the messages. These messages are then indexed
locally by Spotlight for the seraches in Entourage.
The question is to figure out who's right and who's wrong. Are the
messages indeed there but Entourage fails to display them in th inbox,
or are the long gone and Spotlight is listing old messages that no
longer exist.
The answer can be found in OWA.... If the messages are there, then it's
an Entourage issue, if not, it's Spotlight.

I'm not necessarily opposed to trying to rebuild the database or clear
cache (I've already cleared the local Entourage cache, but it didn't
help). But, I'm extremely concerned that I might lose the limited access
that I already have to these messages (and any others that are hidden
that I don't even know about) if I try some of these things. So, I don't
want to try them unless I understand why it might help.

Clearing the Excahnge cache might not correct the issue.
A database rebuild would be required.
As far as Spotlight goes, there is really no risk involved. It takes a
bit of time, but all it does is to forget the messages you have and
re-index them all.

Spotlight is risk-free, rebuilding the database is pretty safe too since
in the process, the application keeps a copy of your old database (you
can access it through the Switch Identity command in the Entourage menu)
in case something goes bad.

Regardless, for an exchange acount, everything is simply cached locally.
The real data is on the server itself.

Corentin

 

[juliabell]

Let me try to clarify:

- I cannot see the "hidden/missing" messages in the Entourage inbox
- I cannot see the "hidden/missing" messages in the inbox as viewed over the web-based Outlook access of the Exchange server independent of my local machine
- I CAN see the messages in an Entourage search result. And that search says the messages exist in the inbox
- I don't see the messages in a search using the Outlook access of the Exchange server (that's the one case where my local results and the server results are different)
- The inbox that I see in the Exchange server access and in my local Entourage access are the same - they both have the same number of messages (both are missing these messages that are showing up in my search results)

Does that help?

(The fact that I can't see the missing messages when I search via the Outlook access of the Exchange server is concerning - that suggests they only exist somehow in my local database and are not being lost somehow everytime the local database syncs with the server)

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

Hi again,

Let me try to clarify:

- I cannot see the "hidden/missing" messages in the Entourage inbox
- I cannot see the "hidden/missing" messages in the inbox as viewed over
the web-based Outlook access of the Exchange server independent of my
local machine

OK, so it doesn't display in the inbox through either Entourage or OWA.
It's probably simply not there...

- I CAN see the messages in an Entourage search result. And that search
says the messages exist in the inbox

That would be the result of a Spotlight search. Meaning that Spotlight
sees it even though it doesn't appear to be there. That looks like a
corrupted Spotlight index to me.

- I don't see the messages in a search using the Outlook access of the
Exchange server (that's the one case where my local results and the
server results are different)

Again, it's not *really* there.

- The inbox that I see in the Exchange server access and in my local
Entourage access are the same - they both have the same number of
messages (both are missing these messages that are showing up in my
search results)
Good.

Does that help?

Well yes. Everything points to a corrupted Spotlight index. The solution
is fairly straightforward: in the Entourage preferences, click on the
button to reindex your messages.

(The fact that I can't see the missing messages when I search via the
Outlook access of the Exchange server is concerning - that suggests they
only exist somehow in my local database and are not being lost somehow
everytime the local database syncs with the server)

Yep, some fluke from the local search,

Corentin

 

[juliabell]

Does this mean that if I reindex the messages, they really will be completely lost? The reindex will remove these "errant" messages?

That's the opposite of what I'm hoping for!

I've never even seen these messages in the inbox. I learned about this one set just by accident when the sender called and told me he had sent it. I can pull these over and save a local copy. But, my concern is what else is "missing" that I don't know about. And, how did it happen that messages never appeared in my inbox.

I was hoping for a solution that would have put these back into the inbox (along with any other messages that are "missing" in this way), but I think you're saying the solution is to remove them from the local search results to resolve the discrepancy.

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

Does this mean that if I reindex the messages, they really will be
completely lost? The reindex will remove these "errant" messages?

Reindexing doesn't affect mesasges. It affects what's listed in the
search results.
I suspect that these messages are already lost.

There is a chance though, that the data is still present in the database
and that the messages can still be accessed through Spotlight.
Can you actually open any of these messages?? If you can, try copying
them to a different folder to archive them.

That's the opposite of what I'm hoping for!

Well the fact that they are not displayed in the inbox is not a good
sign...

I've never even seen these messages in the inbox. I learned about this
one set just by accident when the sender called and told me he had sent
it. I can pull these over and save a local copy. But, my concern is what
else is "missing" that I don't know about. And, how did it happen that
messages never appeared in my inbox.
Weird...

I was hoping for a solution that would have put these back into the
inbox (along with any other messages that are "missing" in this way),
but I think you're saying the solution is to remove them from the local
search results to resolve the discrepancy.

I'm not even sure that a database rebuild would bring them back to life.
No idea why they weren't visible in the inbox (especially on OWA) in the
first place. These could be corrupted messages creating a mess on the
server.....

Corentin

 

[Johnny]

One of our users has the exact same problem as Julia.

The user is running Entourage 2008 version 12.1.1 on a MacBook Pro with OSX
Tiger. His mailbox is on Exchange 2007 and his mailbox is >12 GB.

He does not see the email messages in his inbox. When he does a search, he
is able to see the emails. These emails are suppose to be associated with a
folder but it does not. When he sorts it by folder name the missing messages
appear to sort as if they are associated with those folders. But the folder
name does not appear next to the messages and he cannot access those messages
directly from the inbox. He can fully access and read the missing emails
from the search.

When we look for those missing messages from webmail, it does not appear in
any searches. This means those email messages are located on his local cache
database. I do not want to clear the cache for Entourage or for Spotlight
because I do not want to lose these messages.

My task is to retrieve those messages by dragging them to a folder. That
seems to work, but how do I do this when he has thousands of emails? Is
there a quick and efficient way to drag the emails from his Entourage to the
Exchange server? I don't want it to create duplicates either.

Please help.

Thanks,

Johnny

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

My task is to retrieve those messages by dragging them to a folder. That
seems to work, but how do I do this when he has thousands of emails? Is
there a quick and efficient way to drag the emails from his Entourage to the
Exchange server? I don't want it to create duplicates either.

You can select them in a list and use the Copy command from the
contextual menu.

(The Move command will delete the message from where it was and create a
new copy on the destination - not sure whether this is wht you want to
do).

Not sure whether there is a simple way to tell whether a message is on
the local cache and not on the server. That's not supposed to happen at
all to start with :-\

I fear you can only sort things up by writing a script (eg: copy
everythin from OWA on a local folder, everything you get through
searches on a local folder and write a script to delete duplicates -
that requires a bit of AppleScript know-how, but if yo google for it,
you might find a script that has already been written for that).

Corentin

 

[juliabell]

Hi Guys,

We are still debugging my problem, but it must be a little different since I have the following issue:
- if I try to copy the items from my search window into a local folder, they still don't appear in the table of contents listing of the local folder OR the search menu for the local folder. They are still only visible to me in the search screen which shows them in the inbox.

We also determined, however, that they ARE visible in the Outlook access of the Exchange server, but they are marked as deleted. (That's why I thought they were not available on the server - they only show up if I ask the server, via Outlook, to show me the deleted messages.)

So, somehow those messages were apparently marked as deleted in Entourage. Entourage conveyed that information to the Exchange server which also marked them as deleted when it synched.

But, Entourage still has some record of them being in the cache of the inbox which is causing them to appear in those search results.

So, problem not solved yet, but still collecting interesting tidbits. Our Exchange server only stores deleted items for 14 days, so all evidence of them on the server side is about to disappear. But, they are still hanging in there in the search of the local inbox cache!

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

Hi Guys,

Hi,

[...]
We also determined, however, that they ARE visible in the Outlook access
of the Exchange server, but they are marked as deleted. (That's why I
thought they were not available on the server - they only show up if I
ask the server, via Outlook, to show me the deleted messages.)

What happens if you mark them as "undeleted" (and I suspect, move them
to the inbox). Do they appear back in Entourage?

So, somehow those messages were apparently marked as deleted in
Entourage. Entourage conveyed that information to the Exchange server
which also marked them as deleted when it synched.

Hard to tell where they were marked as deleted...

But, Entourage still has some record of them being in the cache of the
inbox which is causing them to appear in those search results.

That's the weird part to me. I suspect a good database cleanup might
clear that,

Corentin

 

[Johnny]

Hi,
I'm still having problems where the messages are missing from the Exchange
Server.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/F0uI-8S0jE6okm3sFbhFyg?authkey=fFUk_KsOuI4&feat=directlink

Above is a link that shows his To Do list and I sorted it based on Folder
name. As you can see, some of the messages don't have a folder name but when
it is sorted it appears as if the messages belong to that folder. Some of
the emails with the missing folder names do show up on the Exchange Server
but some do not.

I was able to find the messages using Spotlight. Part of the messages are
stored in
/User/<username>/Library/Caches/Metadata/Microsoft/Entourage/2008/<main
identity>/Messages/<folder>/

I've tried clearing the Spotlight cache from Entourage and from a program
called MainMenu but now I am not able to search for the messages from Finder
using Spotlight. I can see the messages from the To Do list though.

I've also tried various archiving software to archive his mailbox and to see
if those missing messages appear in the folders they are suppose to be in but
they do not.

I can't find any scripts to locate messages with missing folder tags. I
can't write my own script unless I know how and where the messages keep it's
data to know which folder each message is associated with. Is it in the
Caches/Metadata folder?

Any other options?

Could I import his mailbox into Filemaker and fix his database and import it
back into Entourage?

Hi Guys,

Hi,

[...]
We also determined, however, that they ARE visible in the Outlook access
of the Exchange server, but they are marked as deleted. (That's why I
thought they were not available on the server - they only show up if I
ask the server, via Outlook, to show me the deleted messages.)

What happens if you mark them as "undeleted" (and I suspect, move them
to the inbox). Do they appear back in Entourage?

So, somehow those messages were apparently marked as deleted in
Entourage. Entourage conveyed that information to the Exchange server
which also marked them as deleted when it synched.

Hard to tell where they were marked as deleted...

But, Entourage still has some record of them being in the cache of the
inbox which is causing them to appear in those search results.

That's the weird part to me. I suspect a good database cleanup might
clear that,

Corentin


--
--- Mac:MS MVP http://www.cortig.net/wordpress/ ---
http://www.mvps.org - http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
MVPs are not MS employees - Les MVP ne travaillent pas pour MS
Remove "NoSpam" to e-mail me - Retirez "NoSpam" pour m'écrire

 

[Johnny]

Hi,
I'm still having problems where the messages are missing from the Exchange
Server.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/F0uI-8S0jE6okm3sFbhFyg?authkey=fFUk_KsOuI4&feat=directlink

Above is a link that shows his To Do list and I sorted it based on Folder
name. As you can see, some of the messages don't have a folder name but when
it is sorted it appears as if the messages belong to that folder. Some of
the emails with the missing folder names do show up on the Exchange Server
but some do not.

I was able to find the messages using Spotlight. Part of the messages are
stored in
/User/<username>/Library/Caches/Metadata/Microsoft/Entourage/2008/<main
identity>/Messages/<folder>/

I've tried clearing the Spotlight cache from Entourage and from a program
called MainMenu but now I am not able to search for the messages from Finder
using Spotlight. I can see the messages from the To Do list though.

I've also tried various archiving software to archive his mailbox and to see
if those missing messages appear in the folders they are suppose to be in but
they do not.

I can't find any scripts to locate messages with missing folder tags. I
can't write my own script unless I know how and where the messages keep it's
data to know which folder each message is associated with. Is it in the
Caches/Metadata folder?

Any other options?

Could I import his mailbox into Filemaker and fix his database and import it
back into Entourage?

 

[Johnny]

Hi,
I'm still having problems where the messages are missing from the Exchange
Server.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/F0uI-8S0jE6okm3sFbhFyg?authkey=fFUk_KsOuI4&feat=directlink

Above is a link that shows his To Do list and I sorted it based on Folder
name. As you can see, some of the messages don't have a folder name but when
it is sorted it appears as if the messages belong to that folder. Some of
the emails with the missing folder names do show up on the Exchange Server
but some do not.

I was able to find the messages using Spotlight. Part of the messages are
stored in
/User/<username>/Library/Caches/Metadata/Microsoft/Entourage/2008/<main
identity>/Messages/<folder>/

I've tried clearing the Spotlight cache from Entourage and from a program
called MainMenu but now I am not able to search for the messages from Finder
using Spotlight. I can see the messages from the To Do list though.

I've also tried various archiving software to archive his mailbox and to see
if those missing messages appear in the folders they are suppose to be in but
they do not.

I can't find any scripts to locate messages with missing folder tags. I
can't write my own script unless I know how and where the messages keep it's
data to know which folder each message is associated with. Is it in the
Caches/Metadata folder?

Any other options?

Could I import his mailbox into Filemaker and fix his database and import it
back into Entourage?

Hi Guys,

Hi,

[...]
We also determined, however, that they ARE visible in the Outlook access
of the Exchange server, but they are marked as deleted. (That's why I
thought they were not available on the server - they only show up if I
ask the server, via Outlook, to show me the deleted messages.)

What happens if you mark them as "undeleted" (and I suspect, move them
to the inbox). Do they appear back in Entourage?

So, somehow those messages were apparently marked as deleted in
Entourage. Entourage conveyed that information to the Exchange server
which also marked them as deleted when it synched.

Hard to tell where they were marked as deleted...

But, Entourage still has some record of them being in the cache of the
inbox which is causing them to appear in those search results.

That's the weird part to me. I suspect a good database cleanup might
clear that,

Corentin


--
--- Mac:MS MVP http://www.cortig.net/wordpress/ ---
http://www.mvps.org - http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
MVPs are not MS employees - Les MVP ne travaillent pas pour MS
Remove "NoSpam" to e-mail me - Retirez "NoSpam" pour m'écrire

 

[Johnny]

Hi,
I'm still having problems where the messages are missing from the Exchange
Server.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/F0uI-8S0jE6okm3sFbhFyg?authkey=fFUk_KsOuI4&feat=directlink

Above is a link that shows his To Do list and I sorted it based on Folder
name. As you can see, some of the messages don't have a folder name but when
it is sorted it appears as if the messages belong to that folder. Some of
the emails with the missing folder names do show up on the Exchange Server
but some do not.

I was able to find the messages using Spotlight. Part of the messages are
stored in
/User/<username>/Library/Caches/Metadata/Microsoft/Entourage/2008/<main
identity>/Messages/<folder>/

I've tried clearing the Spotlight cache from Entourage and from a program
called MainMenu but now I am not able to search for the messages from Finder
using Spotlight. I can see the messages from the To Do list though.

I've also tried various archiving software to archive his mailbox and to see
if those missing messages appear in the folders they are suppose to be in but
they do not.

I can't find any scripts to locate messages with missing folder tags. I
can't write my own script unless I know how and where the messages keep it's
data to know which folder each message is associated with. Is it in the
Caches/Metadata folder?

Any other options?

Could I import his mailbox into Filemaker and fix his database and import it
back into Entourage?

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

Hi,
Hi,

I'm still having problems where the messages are missing from the Exchange
Server.
[...]

I was able to find the messages using Spotlight. Part of the messages are
stored in
/User/<username>/Library/Caches/Metadata/Microsoft/Entourage/2008/<main
identity>/Messages/<folder>/

They are all there. Entourage creates a short Spotlight-indexable
version of all messages there. That's how ENtourage integrates with
Spotlight.

I am starting to wonder whether the messages could have been deleted,
and all you have is the spotlight-indexable version that, for some
reason, hasn't been deleted.

I've tried clearing the Spotlight cache from Entourage and from a program
called MainMenu but now I am not able to search for the messages from Finder
using Spotlight. I can see the messages from the To Do list though.

Well I suspect that if you go to the Entourage preferences, turn off
Spotlight indexing and then back on, all these messages will disappear.

I've also tried various archiving software to archive his mailbox and to see
if those missing messages appear in the folders they are suppose to be in but
they do not.

I fear they only live in the Spotlight index.

[...]

Could I import his mailbox into Filemaker and fix his database and import it
back into Entourage?

If you can import them into *anything* it might be worth it!!!
Not sure how you can import them back after that though,


Corentin