multilevel lists

C

Charles Butler

I'm writing an engineering report using multilevel lists. Every 4th
or 5th page, Word places a large blank space on the page after I press
Enter. The new list item (3.2.2 for example) is moved to a new page
even though there is plenty of room on the existing page. Sometimes
only 3 or 4 lines of text are on the page when Word inserts the blank
space and starts a new page. I displayed formatting marks and there
are no marks after the "paragraph" formatting mark, just blank space.
Here is the odd thing, if I move to the next page and press Enter, 3
or 4 sections later (3.2.5 for example), Word fills the blank section
on the previous page with text and the document looks normal.
However, now I have an extra blank line that messes up numbering and
if I have to insert a sub-section (3.2.5.1), Word adds another 1/2
page blank space. To make the 44 page document look somewhat normal,
I had to manually go through and insert blank lines so my report does
not have huge blank spots between multilevel list sections. I have to
manually format the amount of text on each page. One more thing, I've
tried unsuccessfully to "select" the blank section, it's not a hidden
table. Can anyone help?
 
S

Stefan Blom

If you are using heading styles with your multilevel list (and there is no "intervening" text), you will have to adjust the settings for "Keep with next" which is selected by default for certain levels (Heading 1--4 if I remember correctly). Otherwise Word tries to keep paragraphs together, which makes them "chase" each other, and this may result in unexpected breaks. If "Page break before" is added to the mix, it becomes even more confusing, until you notice what is happening.

The settings I just mentioned are all in the Paragraph dialog box; from the Modify Style dialog, you access them via Format, Paragraph.

Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



________________________________
"Charles Butler" wrote in message
I'm writing an engineering report using multilevel lists. Every 4th
or 5th page, Word places a large blank space on the page after I press
Enter. The new list item (3.2.2 for example) is moved to a new page
even though there is plenty of room on the existing page. Sometimes
only 3 or 4 lines of text are on the page when Word inserts the blank
space and starts a new page. I displayed formatting marks and there
are no marks after the "paragraph" formatting mark, just blank space.
Here is the odd thing, if I move to the next page and press Enter, 3
or 4 sections later (3.2.5 for example), Word fills the blank section
on the previous page with text and the document looks normal.
However, now I have an extra blank line that messes up numbering and
if I have to insert a sub-section (3.2.5.1), Word adds another 1/2
page blank space. To make the 44 page document look somewhat normal,
I had to manually go through and insert blank lines so my report does
not have huge blank spots between multilevel list sections. I have to
manually format the amount of text on each page. One more thing, I've
tried unsuccessfully to "select" the blank section, it's not a hidden
table. Can anyone help?
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

I was dubious about KWN being set for just Headings 1-4, but I checked, and
you're right. Now I'm wondering why it would not be enabled for all heading
styles, assuming anyone was going to use them for actual headings.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Stefan Blom

I'm not sure I understand any of the default settings selected in Word. <g>

Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



________________________________
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
I was dubious about KWN being set for just Headings 1-4, but I checked, and
you're right. Now I'm wondering why it would not be enabled for all heading
styles, assuming anyone was going to use them for actual headings.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

As time goes by, I find myself more and more in that camp. To a large
extent, though, I don't even know what they are because I rarely have a
"virgin" install of Word; having installed Word 2003 on this machine with a
Normal.dot from a previous version, and having then installed Word 2007 and
2010 in ways that preserved at least some of the settings from Normal.dot, I
rarely see what a first-time user sees.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Stefan Blom

I have been in that situation too with my desktop (six years old by now and ready for retirement), where I at one point had Office 2003, 2007, and 2010 installed. On my Windows 7 laptop, which I currently use almost exclusively, I have only Office 2010, but I do have Office 2003 installed on a virtual machine running Windows XP.

Of course, to see what the current factory defaults are, you could just start Word in Safe mode.

Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



________________________________
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
As time goes by, I find myself more and more in that camp. To a large
extent, though, I don't even know what they are because I rarely have a
"virgin" install of Word; having installed Word 2003 on this machine with a
Normal.dot from a previous version, and having then installed Word 2007 and
2010 in ways that preserved at least some of the settings from Normal.dot, I
rarely see what a first-time user sees.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

My desktop is also six years old, but I can push it a little longer if I get
a larger HD; it has the three versions running side by side. The Windows 7
laptop did have Office 2007 briefly, but I installed Office 2010 over that
when I got it.

And yes, I've occasionally started in Safe Mode, but there are so many bits
that you can't access at all... I find it very unnerving!

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Stefan Blom

For my (HP) computer, I doubt that getting a new hard disk would be worth the effort... It has served me well, though: I don't recall Windows XP crashing at all during the years I've used the machine. There have been no "blue screens" (I wish I could say that about my laptop).

As far as Safe mode is concerned, I wouldn't expect it to be easy; in that case, people might be tempted to use it regularly. :) But it does give you a clear picture of the Office defaults.

-- 
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP




---------------------------------------------
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
My desktop is also six years old, but I can push it a little longer if I get
a larger HD; it has the three versions running side by side. The Windows 7
laptop did have Office 2007 briefly, but I installed Office 2010 over that
when I got it.

And yes, I've occasionally started in Safe Mode, but there are so many bits
that you can't access at all... I find it very unnerving!

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

I just paid for another year's service contract on my Dell, so I'm motivated
to push it a little bit longer. I'll be torn about getting a new one. I've
been pleased with my HP laptop and would probably have been inclined to get
an HP desktop, but now that HP has announced that it's getting out of the
computer business, I'm not sure whether to go back to Dell or what.

When I was looking at laptops, it seemed like what was offered off the shelf
in stores was always much better value than a comparably configured machine
at Dell's website, but of course the "ready to wear" models were always
missing one feature I wanted, and when I started configuring machines at the
website, intending to duplicate the in-store model with the addition of just
that one feature, I'm sure I probably ended up throwing in the kitchen sink.
In the end, I got the HP laptop from Staples, and it has essentially
everything I wanted (and then some) and was on sale at what then seemed a
very attractive price.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Stefan Blom

I didn't know HP was leaving the computer business. What are they planning to sell instead?

I'm definitely thinking about Dell for my next purchase.

I prefer buying computers online because you can choose what you want, even if it may be a bit more expensive. Stores tend to offer lower prices, but often it's unclear what's included in the offer. I feel I'm wasting time finding out relevant information (or maybe I'm just being impatient)... :-(

-- 
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP




---------------------------------------------
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
I just paid for another year's service contract on my Dell, so I'm motivated
to push it a little bit longer. I'll be torn about getting a new one. I've
been pleased with my HP laptop and would probably have been inclined to get
an HP desktop, but now that HP has announced that it's getting out of the
computer business, I'm not sure whether to go back to Dell or what.

When I was looking at laptops, it seemed like what was offered off the shelf
in stores was always much better value than a comparably configured machine
at Dell's website, but of course the "ready to wear" models were always
missing one feature I wanted, and when I started configuring machines at the
website, intending to duplicate the in-store model with the addition of just
that one feature, I'm sure I probably ended up throwing in the kitchen sink.
In the end, I got the HP laptop from Staples, and it has essentially
everything I wanted (and then some) and was on sale at what then seemed a
very attractive price.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

HP never sold computers until they bought Compaq and took over its computer
business. Their traditional product line started with calculators but has
always been heavy on printers and scanners. Their decision to get out of the
personal computer business was announced in August; discussion (including a
quotation of HP's official statement) at
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Other-Notebook-PC-questions/hp-will-stop-making-laptops/td-p/846857.
For one reaction, see
http://techandfilm.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/how-hps-decision-to-stop-making-computers-will-effect-you-and-your-next-computer-purchase/. I
don't know whether that's encouraging or not; my husband loved his IBM
ThinkPad but hasn't been tempted to buy a Lenovo.

In the case of the HP laptop I bought, there was a specific model number
advertised by Staples that I could find on the HP site and get a spec sheet
on, so I probably knew as much about it as if I'd configured it myself. This
turned out to be the sane approach for me in this case because, although
I've had several desktops and feel I know what I need and don't need, this
was my first laptop, and I found it hard to decide between portability and
power: size, weight, battery life, etc. I ended up with a very well-specced
machine that is not killingly heavy or insanely huge (17") but definitely
not featherweight or pocket-sized, and it does run rather hot and only for
two hours or less on battery. I rarely use it in situations where I can't
either plug it in or recharge it frequently, so that has not been too much
of a disadvantage; I could get a battery that would last twice as long, but
it would also be twice as heavy, so I passed on that. Next time I buy a
laptop (which will be many years down the road), I might make different
choices.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Stefan Blom

OK, I completely forgot about printers and scanners, maybe because they (or their drivers) are less stable than HP computers... Thanks for the links, which I'll read through when I find the time.

I was going to write that Staples does not exist in Sweden, but after googling the name I have found that they have a Swedish web site, so I guess they do exist. :) Personally I use a local online retailer called Dustin which has a lot to choose from and they deliver their products quickly.

It seems as if we are pretty much in the same situation when it comes to laptops. When I got mine, it was my first laptop. It has a 15.6" display, 4 GB RAM, a not very powerful CPU (1.9 GHz), and a 300 GB hard disk, and it is running Windows 7 Home Premium. It runs less than two hours before the battery must be recharged, so I basically use it as a "movable" computer (meaning I can move it out of the way if I want to!), not as a true portable one.

If and when I decide to get a more powerful computer, I am going to choose a bigger display, perhaps as a replacement for my desktop computer. I like the fact that a laptop saves space on my desk.

-- 
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP




---------------------------------------------
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
HP never sold computers until they bought Compaq and took over its computer
business. Their traditional product line started with calculators but has
always been heavy on printers and scanners. Their decision to get out of the
personal computer business was announced in August; discussion (including a
quotation of HP's official statement) at
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Other-Notebook-PC-questions/hp-will-stop-making-laptops/td-p/846857.
For one reaction, see
http://techandfilm.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/how-hps-decision-to-stop-making-computers-will-effect-you-and-your-next-computer-purchase/. I
don't know whether that's encouraging or not; my husband loved his IBM
ThinkPad but hasn't been tempted to buy a Lenovo.

In the case of the HP laptop I bought, there was a specific model number
advertised by Staples that I could find on the HP site and get a spec sheet
on, so I probably knew as much about it as if I'd configured it myself. This
turned out to be the sane approach for me in this case because, although
I've had several desktops and feel I know what I need and don't need, this
was my first laptop, and I found it hard to decide between portability and
power: size, weight, battery life, etc. I ended up with a very well-specced
machine that is not killingly heavy or insanely huge (17") but definitely
not featherweight or pocket-sized, and it does run rather hot and only for
two hours or less on battery. I rarely use it in situations where I can't
either plug it in or recharge it frequently, so that has not been too much
of a disadvantage; I could get a battery that would last twice as long, but
it would also be twice as heavy, so I passed on that. Next time I buy a
laptop (which will be many years down the road), I might make different
choices.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

It sounds like we have much the same thing. Mine is the Pavilion dv6-2190us.
Although it's billed as 17", the display is 15.6" (same as yours), and I
also have 4 GB of RAM but a 500 GB HD. LightScribe DVD drive, which is
intriguing technology that I'll probably never use, but still cool. My
processor is quad-core (i7), which I didn't realize when I got it--just got
what appeared to be the top of the line at the time. It evidently wasn't
very popular: it was quite some time before I even saw very many i3s and i5s
(my husband got an i5, I think, otherwise identical to mine, somewhat later
in the cycle, for considerably less). The i7 claims to be 1.60 GHz with
Turbo Boost Technology up to 2.80 GHz, whatever that means.

What I especially like about it is the ability to turn the sound, the
wireless, and the touchpad off with hardware buttons instead of having to do
it through Control Panel or other software.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Stefan Blom

They do seem rather similar, yes, but I forgot to mention that my laptop is not HP; it's an Acer Emachines, using a Intel Celeron Dual-Core T3000 processor. So mine's a little less powerful I believe...

Pricing is a fascinating thing about the hardware industry. You never can tell when it's the right time to purchase. :) What does the rule of thumb say? Twice the capacity of today after 18 months? Or maybe that has changed.

What I like about my laptop is... Windows 7, I think, primarily because Windows Update works better and is more integrated with the operating system than the Windows Update site was in Windows XP. I've never used Vista, so I can't compare to that version.

The downside of Windows 7, obviously, is losing Outlook Express, far from perfect but it did the job and never crashed. Although the most recent version of Windows Live Mail is more stable, it still has a few issues. Messages saved to the Draft folder get corrupt from time to time, to the extent that I have to rewrite them from the start. There is no simple send & receive; if you want something similar, you have to make use of the synchronization feature. It never adds ">" on quoted text. I wish it would create better HTML when I post to the Technet forum via the Bridge.

WLM is sufficiently similar to OE for me to accept its flaws, but I'd really prefer something better. Maybe I'll switch to Thunderbird eventually, but there are things I don't like in Thunderbird either.

-- 
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP




---------------------------------------------
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
It sounds like we have much the same thing. Mine is the Pavilion dv6-2190us.
Although it's billed as 17", the display is 15.6" (same as yours), and I
also have 4 GB of RAM but a 500 GB HD. LightScribe DVD drive, which is
intriguing technology that I'll probably never use, but still cool. My
processor is quad-core (i7), which I didn't realize when I got it--just got
what appeared to be the top of the line at the time. It evidently wasn't
very popular: it was quite some time before I even saw very many i3s and i5s
(my husband got an i5, I think, otherwise identical to mine, somewhat later
in the cycle, for considerably less). The i7 claims to be 1.60 GHz with
Turbo Boost Technology up to 2.80 GHz, whatever that means.

What I especially like about it is the ability to turn the sound, the
wireless, and the touchpad off with hardware buttons instead of having to do
it through Control Panel or other software.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

I like some things about Windows 7. WLM is not one of them. When I'm
traveling, I don't want to download mail to the laptop because then it's
virtually impossible to get the messages to my desktop for storage. I've
found that the only way to do that is to disable the mail portion of WLM
entirely; otherwise I can't send news posts without also receiving mail.
That's less of an issue now, though; since I'm doing most of my support
through Answers, I can just ignore NGs while I'm away from home. I handle
mail through Gmail's web portal, which allows me to answer messages that
urgently require an answer, and then when I get home, all those messages
(and also my replies) will be downloaded to my desktop in the next mail
transaction.

When it becomes necessary to use W7 on my desktop, then I'll have to switch
to Outlook for mail and either hold my nose and use WLM for news or find a
better alternative. In some ways I'm dreading that; I hope there will be a
way to import some 13 years of stored mail messages into Outlook. But I will
not miss OE's bugginess. Right now it has gotten to the point where I can't
compact folders (even manually) without corrupting the store folder, so I
just keep resetting the counter. I know I have too many messages stored, but
I don't know of any way to archive them in an accessible form.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Stefan Blom

Sounds like you are using POP to access your e-mail? With an IMAP account, as you probably know, you don't have to think about that, as you can keep your e-mail up to date everywhere.

It is true, however, that Windows Live Mail has merged simple send and receive operations with the synchronization feature, giving you "all or nothing." The F5 shortcut, for example, processes everything (e-mail and newsgroup accounts), although nothing actually happens with the newsgroup accounts unless you have specified a synchronization option (All Messages, New Messages Only, or Headers Only). As far as I can tell, this isn't documented anywhere, which makes it even more confusing. :-(

Personally, I rarely save any messages in the Outbox, so I don't really need a way to "send all" (if I did need it, I could live with "receiving all" at the same time); instead, I make use of the Drafts folder whenever I need a temporary storage location for newsgroup messages.

-- 
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP




---------------------------------------------
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
I like some things about Windows 7. WLM is not one of them. When I'm
traveling, I don't want to download mail to the laptop because then it's
virtually impossible to get the messages to my desktop for storage. I've
found that the only way to do that is to disable the mail portion of WLM
entirely; otherwise I can't send news posts without also receiving mail.
That's less of an issue now, though; since I'm doing most of my support
through Answers, I can just ignore NGs while I'm away from home. I handle
mail through Gmail's web portal, which allows me to answer messages that
urgently require an answer, and then when I get home, all those messages
(and also my replies) will be downloaded to my desktop in the next mail
transaction.

When it becomes necessary to use W7 on my desktop, then I'll have to switch
to Outlook for mail and either hold my nose and use WLM for news or find a
better alternative. In some ways I'm dreading that; I hope there will be a
way to import some 13 years of stored mail messages into Outlook. But I will
not miss OE's bugginess. Right now it has gotten to the point where I can't
compact folders (even manually) without corrupting the store folder, so I
just keep resetting the counter. I know I have too many messages stored, but
I don't know of any way to archive them in an accessible form.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

I have never liked to use Send Immediately, as I frequently revise messages
or at least want to see how they look before sending them. I suppose saving
them to the Drafts folder would accomplish the same thing; it just hadn't
occurred to me. I actually use the Drafts folder mostly for storing
boilerplate messages, though I do often temporarily save long messages in
progress.

I guess I should look into IMAP, something I don't know anything about.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
S

Stefan Blom

For what it's worth, I use the Drafts folder all the time, and I think it works just fine. But it's a matter of habit, of course.

As far as IMAP is concerned, I don't know much about that either. But following the instructions on Google Mail (not to mention the "recommended settings") and struggling with Outlook 2010 I finally got it to work. I haven't found a way, in Outlook, to automatically get my drafts saved to the Drafts folder on the *server*, though. Outlook insists on using the local folder. But it's possible to drag a message into the correct folder, in which case it will be visible from other clients or from the Google Mail web interface as well.

-- 
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP




---------------------------------------------
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
I have never liked to use Send Immediately, as I frequently revise messages
or at least want to see how they look before sending them. I suppose saving
them to the Drafts folder would accomplish the same thing; it just hadn't
occurred to me. I actually use the Drafts folder mostly for storing
boilerplate messages, though I do often temporarily save long messages in
progress.

I guess I should look into IMAP, something I don't know anything about.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 

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