Must learn how to write VBA.

[M. Thomas]

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime. Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Larry Daugherty]

Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH

 

[M. Thomas]

Thanks, Larry.
I'm sure we will speak more in the future!
M. Thomas

Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime. Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Klatuu]

Sadly, 2002 will be the last version of the Developer's Handbook (as least so
I was told). I think it is the best available.

A note to you, M. Thomas, forget about Macros. Consider them training
wheels. With that said, one way to pick up some VBA ideas when you are
having difficulty with VBA and you know how to do it with a Macro, write the
macro and convert it to VBA. Then study the VBA it created (it is not the
best VBA, but it will give you some ideas).

Spend time on this site and see what others are doing. find every web site
you can that has VBA examples. Allen Browne has a very good one.
This is also an excellent site to visit:
http://www.mvps.org/access/

best of luck to you.

Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime. Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[chris.nebinger]

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime. Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Klatuu]

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head, it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime. Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Larry Daugherty]

Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head, it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Klatuu]

Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head, it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Klatuu]

Larry,

We are, it appears, of a like mind. I certainly understand Microsoft's
motivation and why Access contains many of the features it does. I believe
they understand that there are organizations where the IT department will not
or can not support what the group needs. Many of these turn to Access
because it is an easy start. Many line managers under estimate the
complexity of creating a good database application. They will turn to
someone in their department who had a class in school, wrote a couple of
Excel macros, or is a hobbiest to provde the solution. Many times these
people honestly believe they can do it. No slight to them, they just have
not had the experience required to provide a solid solution.

Case in point. In the late '80s, The Internal Consulting Department of the
bank where my wife was an IT project manager sent her to a one week class in
Dbase III. After completing the class, her manager said since she had
completed the class, he wanted her to write a library system to track all the
books, manuals, periodicals, and other documents for the department.
Gleefully, she took a run at it. After a week of trying, she came to me and
asked for help, realizing she was in over her head. Dbase III, of course,
did not have the tools Access has to help a novice work through it.

Now, although I understand Microsoft's motivation and that within reason, a
novice can achieve a functioning application, there is one serious down side
that haunts us all. Because there are so many poorly designed Access
applications and because IT professionals have never seen beyond the
"training wheels", Access has earned an undeserved poor reputation as a
development product in those circles.

Where I am now, Access is not an approved or supported product, but various
business units use it world wide. IT is so negative toward Access, I am not
allowed to directly attach to Oracle where our data comes from. It is
required that I use Excel to download a csv file, then use the data in the
csv files.

Allthough unpractical, I wish for Access to be two products - One pretty
much as is and the other with all the training wheels and crutches removed.

Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head, it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[chris.nebinger]

Larry,

The book is an excellent resource. If someone has programming
knowledge, then it is a great first book. If not, then I think that it
would be too confusing in and of itself. I still recommend other
resources (but I don't know of any, mostly because the ADH is the only
Access book I own).

There are many questions in the newsgroups about looking at code and
not understanding where to put it or how to call it. These are the
kind of issues that a beginning VBA book needs to address. The ADH is
not geared towards those users, and as such, fails to get people from
0-60. Once at 60, however, it is a must have in any Access
user/developer's library.


Chris Nebinger

Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head, it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Klatuu]

I don't disagree there is a gap in Access How To books. You find either
those that show how to create a table, a macro, a form, a basic query, and a
report and those at the ADH level. I have yet to find a good book (or any,
for that matter) that focuses on the VBA language and how it is used in form
and reports.

I think what Larry and I are saying, given this gap in available material,
the more complex would be better than the simple. The OP was specific to
VBA, so I think he is trying the get beyond the training wheels.

If you know of a book that covers that middle ground, please suggest it.

Larry,

The book is an excellent resource. If someone has programming
knowledge, then it is a great first book. If not, then I think that it
would be too confusing in and of itself. I still recommend other
resources (but I don't know of any, mostly because the ADH is the only
Access book I own).

There are many questions in the newsgroups about looking at code and
not understanding where to put it or how to call it. These are the
kind of issues that a beginning VBA book needs to address. The ADH is
not geared towards those users, and as such, fails to get people from
0-60. Once at 60, however, it is a must have in any Access
user/developer's library.


Chris Nebinger

Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head, it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.


:

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[chris.nebinger]

I don't know of one, unfortunately. There is the VBA handbook, which
is good, but it is non-Access specific. I'm tempted to write a website
about it, but who has the time.


Chris Nebinger

I don't disagree there is a gap in Access How To books. You find either
those that show how to create a table, a macro, a form, a basic query, and a
report and those at the ADH level. I have yet to find a good book (or any,
for that matter) that focuses on the VBA language and how it is used in form
and reports.

I think what Larry and I are saying, given this gap in available material,
the more complex would be better than the simple. The OP was specific to
VBA, so I think he is trying the get beyond the training wheels.

If you know of a book that covers that middle ground, please suggest it.

Larry,

The book is an excellent resource. If someone has programming
knowledge, then it is a great first book. If not, then I think that it
would be too confusing in and of itself. I still recommend other
resources (but I don't know of any, mostly because the ADH is the only
Access book I own).

There are many questions in the newsgroups about looking at code and
not understanding where to put it or how to call it. These are the
kind of issues that a beginning VBA book needs to address. The ADH is
not geared towards those users, and as such, fails to get people from
0-60. Once at 60, however, it is a must have in any Access
user/developer's library.


Chris Nebinger

Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really
good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by
many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when
I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to
work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I
concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book
on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head,
it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can
understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner
level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off
using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of
Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They
don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they
teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.


:

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not
recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you
can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on
Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for
VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The
Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go
for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are
other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also
lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores
if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

message
Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and
hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me
dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a
lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be
maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of
SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop
everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Larry Daugherty]

Oh, that doesn't mean that I don't resent the dysfunctional crap MS
puts into Access. Newbies want to become journeymen and they want to
enhance and build on their existing work. It gets boring repeating
the same corrective measures and cautions in the newsgroups. I'm
sorry for the people who have been hung out to dry. We might
fantasize about a Novice/Professional flag we could toggle that would
cause all deliberate dysfunctionalities to be corrected and
appropriate corrections ripple up through all objects.

MS not only have Lookup fields in tables they are implementing a
similar dysfunctionality in Access 2007 of "multiple discrete values
in a single field". It's another thunderstroke at the rules of
relational databases. Under the covers, there is an invisible one to
any table with a separate value per row. Once again, it provides
immediate assistance to a newbie who doesn't understand the relational
rules. Once again it will help them sell more copies of Access, make
heroes within organizations (like your wife with one week of dbase
training) and create opportunities for hired guns to later come in and
put things right.

As for IT departments and the people therein, my experiences with them
have been mostly negative. The bar to entry on a career in IT is very
low. The truly exceptional people will devote themselves to learning
and doing good work and working well with their customers. The
majority are lesser lights who do none of those things. For the most
part, IT departments try to interpose themselves between innovation
and access to their net. They loudly view with alarm all that they
didn't create. They will create phony concerns so that new things
which might threaten their rice bowl are impeded or defeated.

As to the slams on Access in the IT environment, that's really
consistent with the rice bowl thought above. Do you remember how
Visual Basic was slammed by all users of other development languages
in the software industry for years and years? First is was just "VB
is not a REAL programming language". Then as OO really came into
vogue the slam was "VB isn't truly object oriented". Early on during
those slams, VB became the most popular programming language in the
world. It still is. I'm one of the ones who signed a petition to MS
to keep the VB6/unmanaged code format alive irrespective of the
success of VB.net.

We just have to keep our sense of humor about all of these things and
get our own work done and help others as we can.

--
-Larry-
--

Larry,

We are, it appears, of a like mind. I certainly understand Microsoft's
motivation and why Access contains many of the features it does. I believe
they understand that there are organizations where the IT department will not
or can not support what the group needs. Many of these turn to Access
because it is an easy start. Many line managers under estimate the
complexity of creating a good database application. They will turn to
someone in their department who had a class in school, wrote a couple of
Excel macros, or is a hobbiest to provde the solution. Many times these
people honestly believe they can do it. No slight to them, they just have
not had the experience required to provide a solid solution.

Case in point. In the late '80s, The Internal Consulting Department of the
bank where my wife was an IT project manager sent her to a one week class in
Dbase III. After completing the class, her manager said since she had
completed the class, he wanted her to write a library system to track all the
books, manuals, periodicals, and other documents for the department.
Gleefully, she took a run at it. After a week of trying, she came to me and
asked for help, realizing she was in over her head. Dbase III, of course,
did not have the tools Access has to help a novice work through it.

Now, although I understand Microsoft's motivation and that within reason, a
novice can achieve a functioning application, there is one serious down side
that haunts us all. Because there are so many poorly designed Access
applications and because IT professionals have never seen beyond the
"training wheels", Access has earned an undeserved poor reputation as a
development product in those circles.

Where I am now, Access is not an approved or supported product, but various
business units use it world wide. IT is so negative toward Access, I am not
allowed to directly attach to Oracle where our data comes from. It is
required that I use Excel to download a csv file, then use the data in the
csv files.

Allthough unpractical, I wish for Access to be two products - One pretty
much as is and the other with all the training wheels and crutches removed.

Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of

really
good

examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored

by
many, is

VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used

when
I first

started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and

how to
work

with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every

book
on the

subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my

head,
it goes

back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing

beginner
level

info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody

off
using

Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice.

They
don't

follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques

they
teach or,

IMHO, not very good practice.


:

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book

you
can.

Check them because most of them include alot of information on Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look

for
VBA

and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If

you go
for

the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There

are
other

good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the

bookstores
if you

are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA

without a
lot

of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp

of
SQL

and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[John Vinson]

Once again it will help them sell more copies of Access, make
heroes within organizations (like your wife with one week of dbase
training) and create opportunities for hired guns to later come in and
put things right.

One of the comments at the notorious Summit meeting between the Access
MVP's and the Access team was a reaction to this feature:

"Billable Hours!"

John W. Vinson[MVP]

 

[Larry Daugherty]

Klatuu pretty well answered for me and pretty much on the mark. The
Access Developer's Handbook is always recommended by me as the premier
Access and VBA with Access learning tool. What others do or don't
recommend doesn't change that fact. I have one complete wall of (6)
bookshelves mostly filled with techie books. I occasionally toss out
obsolete book; never a Getz book Two complete bookshelves are
occupied by Access and Office books.

Chris, as you and the OP may have picked up, for learning VBA (at one
time the Access flavor was entitled "Access Basic") both Klatuu and I
relied on and still rely on Access Help and all of the other related
help files and on the Object browser to Learn Access. I never made it
a point to focus on VBA until the VBA Developer's Handbook by Getz et
al. came along. I bought it for review, to see if there might be
things I was missing and for reference in tough spots. VBA is not
specific to any product. When you develop in Access you are using VBA
with the Access model. When you develop programs in Excel you are
using VBA with the Excel object model. When you develop with VB6 you
are using VBA with the Visual Basic object model. There is a growing
list of 3rd party software manufacturers who integrate VBA into their
products.

My first leg up was that I had several years of several other
assembler and higher level languages including BASIC and then VB
before Access came along. VBA was derived from BASIC. VBA is BASIC
on steroids but the same syntax and conventions, even the names of low
level I/O functions, are the same. I don't know if there are any
beginning books on BASIC in print but there are used book sections at
Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc. There are also used book stores all over
the world. You should be able to find a bunch by googling for "Used
books". I'd just about bet that Powell's in Portland Oregon has
something.

Browse the bookstores online. Look for books with "beginning" and
"VBA" in the title. I know that Smith and Susskind wrote "Beginning
Access 97 VBA" from Wrox. I believe they've written newer editions.

OP asked for recommendations. He got mine. The rest of this is
background

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I don't know of one, unfortunately. There is the VBA handbook, which
is good, but it is non-Access specific. I'm tempted to write a website
about it, but who has the time.


Chris Nebinger

I don't disagree there is a gap in Access How To books. You find either
those that show how to create a table, a macro, a form, a basic query, and a
report and those at the ADH level. I have yet to find a good book (or any,
for that matter) that focuses on the VBA language and how it is used in form
and reports.

I think what Larry and I are saying, given this gap in available material,
the more complex would be better than the simple. The OP was specific to
VBA, so I think he is trying the get beyond the training wheels.

If you know of a book that covers that middle ground, please suggest it.

Larry,

The book is an excellent resource. If someone has programming
knowledge, then it is a great first book. If not, then I think that it
would be too confusing in and of itself. I still recommend other
resources (but I don't know of any, mostly because the ADH is the only
Access book I own).

There are many questions in the newsgroups about looking at code and
not understanding where to put it or how to call it. These are the
kind of issues that a beginning VBA book needs to address. The ADH is
not geared towards those users, and as such, fails to get people from
0-60. Once at 60, however, it is a must have in any Access
user/developer's library.


Chris Nebinger


Larry Daugherty wrote:
Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really
good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by
many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when
I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to
work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I
concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book
on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head,
it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can
understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner
level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off
using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of
Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They
don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they
teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.


:

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not
recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you
can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on
Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for
VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The
Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go
for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are
other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also
lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores
if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

message
Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and
hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me
dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a
lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be
maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of
SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop
everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[chris.nebinger]

Larry,

I agree with you, actually. I learned basic back in the '80's. When I
started with MS Access in the mid 90's, the simple things were easy.
If/Then, For/Next, programming procedures, etc. Aside from learning
DAO, it wasn't that hard. The book I had didn't dive into VBA much,
but had a chapter on macros and how to call them. From there, the rest
came pretty quickly. By the time I picked up the ADH, I was at a level
where I learned a ton from it.

I know there is a VBA Developer's handbook, maybe that would be the
best place to start. Also, possibly a VB6 getting started, and then
the transition to Access might not be that bad, except for differing
forms models.

There is a lack of "Hello World" type guides, however.

Chris Nebinger

Klatuu pretty well answered for me and pretty much on the mark. The
Access Developer's Handbook is always recommended by me as the premier
Access and VBA with Access learning tool. What others do or don't
recommend doesn't change that fact. I have one complete wall of (6)
bookshelves mostly filled with techie books. I occasionally toss out
obsolete book; never a Getz book Two complete bookshelves are
occupied by Access and Office books.

Chris, as you and the OP may have picked up, for learning VBA (at one
time the Access flavor was entitled "Access Basic") both Klatuu and I
relied on and still rely on Access Help and all of the other related
help files and on the Object browser to Learn Access. I never made it
a point to focus on VBA until the VBA Developer's Handbook by Getz et
al. came along. I bought it for review, to see if there might be
things I was missing and for reference in tough spots. VBA is not
specific to any product. When you develop in Access you are using VBA
with the Access model. When you develop programs in Excel you are
using VBA with the Excel object model. When you develop with VB6 you
are using VBA with the Visual Basic object model. There is a growing
list of 3rd party software manufacturers who integrate VBA into their
products.

My first leg up was that I had several years of several other
assembler and higher level languages including BASIC and then VB
before Access came along. VBA was derived from BASIC. VBA is BASIC
on steroids but the same syntax and conventions, even the names of low
level I/O functions, are the same. I don't know if there are any
beginning books on BASIC in print but there are used book sections at
Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc. There are also used book stores all over
the world. You should be able to find a bunch by googling for "Used
books". I'd just about bet that Powell's in Portland Oregon has
something.

Browse the bookstores online. Look for books with "beginning" and
"VBA" in the title. I know that Smith and Susskind wrote "Beginning
Access 97 VBA" from Wrox. I believe they've written newer editions.

OP asked for recommendations. He got mine. The rest of this is
background

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I don't know of one, unfortunately. There is the VBA handbook, which
is good, but it is non-Access specific. I'm tempted to write a website
about it, but who has the time.


Chris Nebinger

I don't disagree there is a gap in Access How To books. You find either
those that show how to create a table, a macro, a form, a basic query, and a
report and those at the ADH level. I have yet to find a good book (or any,
for that matter) that focuses on the VBA language and how it is used in form
and reports.

I think what Larry and I are saying, given this gap in available material,
the more complex would be better than the simple. The OP was specific to
VBA, so I think he is trying the get beyond the training wheels.

If you know of a book that covers that middle ground, please suggest it.

:

Larry,

The book is an excellent resource. If someone has programming
knowledge, then it is a great first book. If not, then I think that it
would be too confusing in and of itself. I still recommend other
resources (but I don't know of any, mostly because the ADH is the only
Access book I own).

There are many questions in the newsgroups about looking at code and
not understanding where to put it or how to call it. These are the
kind of issues that a beginning VBA book needs to address. The ADH is
not geared towards those users, and as such, fails to get people from
0-60. Once at 60, however, it is a must have in any Access
user/developer's library.


Chris Nebinger


Larry Daugherty wrote:
Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as that for any
other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low end in the
Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has to be to
make beginning use of the product as easy as they can. They irritate
the professional developers among us by doing things different from
the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product would do
things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the marketplace. They want
to keep that initial learning slope to first productive use as short
and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make it easier to
learn to do anything useful with Access will later be shown to be
dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They may have
arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what they wanted
or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word or of
non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living for years
going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming convention, proudly
exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in tables, teaching
newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies are still
there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into the product
and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent, product and
promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and I assume
that of other Access developers, is to use that product as a platform
to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The books and
accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The code conforms
to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an appendix devoted
to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn Access get
acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser are worthy of
note. As I was first learning Access I got more information by
continually using and testing Help than from all of the books. It was
right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I agree that is is a bit advanced, but it comes with a CD of really
good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by
many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what I used when
I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object Model and how to
work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I
concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick up every book
on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or over my head,
it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can
understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner
level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off
using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless pieces of
Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad advice. They
don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they
teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.


:

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I would not
recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY Access book you
can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on
Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et alia. Look for
VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the authors. The
Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly favored. If you go
for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are
other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There are also
lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores
if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

message
Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and
hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me
dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write VBA without a
lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I will be
maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a simple grasp of
SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for a loop
everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas

 

[Larry Daugherty]

There are lots of resources out there. The heck of it is that there
is no single coherent map of the territory. People have attempted to
describe it but it is all very vague to someone who hasn't traveled
that territory for a while. Someone posting in an Access newsgroup for
guidance in VBA usually means "VBA with Access". There is no "one
size fits all"

It boils down to asking for advice. Listening to it. Then make up
your own mind what path you'll take. There is no getting around the
fact that there is a lot of effort required in learning a language and
object model at the same time.

I recall a thread in one of the Access newsgroups in which several of
the MVPs who are high in my esteem declared that they (as I) were all
self taught. The only programming course I recall ever taking was on
the PC; Modicon's PC. That was in the days when PC meant Programmable
Controller and before PC as Personal Computer was widely accepted nor
Political Correctness in vogue. Knowledge of relay ladder logic and
sequences doesn't readily transfer to anything else.

Regards,
--
-Larry-
--

Larry,

I agree with you, actually. I learned basic back in the '80's. When I
started with MS Access in the mid 90's, the simple things were easy.
If/Then, For/Next, programming procedures, etc. Aside from learning
DAO, it wasn't that hard. The book I had didn't dive into VBA much,
but had a chapter on macros and how to call them. From there, the rest
came pretty quickly. By the time I picked up the ADH, I was at a level
where I learned a ton from it.

I know there is a VBA Developer's handbook, maybe that would be the
best place to start. Also, possibly a VB6 getting started, and then
the transition to Access might not be that bad, except for differing
forms models.

There is a lack of "Hello World" type guides, however.

Chris Nebinger

Klatuu pretty well answered for me and pretty much on the mark. The
Access Developer's Handbook is always recommended by me as the premier
Access and VBA with Access learning tool. What others do or don't
recommend doesn't change that fact. I have one complete wall of (6)
bookshelves mostly filled with techie books. I occasionally toss out
obsolete book; never a Getz book Two complete bookshelves are
occupied by Access and Office books.

Chris, as you and the OP may have picked up, for learning VBA (at one
time the Access flavor was entitled "Access Basic") both Klatuu and I
relied on and still rely on Access Help and all of the other related
help files and on the Object browser to Learn Access. I never made it
a point to focus on VBA until the VBA Developer's Handbook by Getz et
al. came along. I bought it for review, to see if there might be
things I was missing and for reference in tough spots. VBA is not
specific to any product. When you develop in Access you are using VBA
with the Access model. When you develop programs in Excel you are
using VBA with the Excel object model. When you develop with VB6 you
are using VBA with the Visual Basic object model. There is a growing
list of 3rd party software manufacturers who integrate VBA into their
products.

My first leg up was that I had several years of several other
assembler and higher level languages including BASIC and then VB
before Access came along. VBA was derived from BASIC. VBA is BASIC
on steroids but the same syntax and conventions, even the names of low
level I/O functions, are the same. I don't know if there are any
beginning books on BASIC in print but there are used book sections at
Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc. There are also used book stores all over
the world. You should be able to find a bunch by googling for "Used
books". I'd just about bet that Powell's in Portland Oregon has
something.

Browse the bookstores online. Look for books with "beginning" and
"VBA" in the title. I know that Smith and Susskind wrote "Beginning
Access 97 VBA" from Wrox. I believe they've written newer editions.

OP asked for recommendations. He got mine. The rest of this is
background

HTH
--
-Larry-
--

I don't know of one, unfortunately. There is the VBA handbook, which
is good, but it is non-Access specific. I'm tempted to write a website
about it, but who has the time.


Chris Nebinger


Klatuu wrote:
I don't disagree there is a gap in Access How To books. You

find
either

those that show how to create a table, a macro, a form, a

basic
query, and a

report and those at the ADH level. I have yet to find a good

book
(or any,

for that matter) that focuses on the VBA language and how it

is
used in form

and reports.

I think what Larry and I are saying, given this gap in

available
material,

the more complex would be better than the simple. The OP was specific to
VBA, so I think he is trying the get beyond the training wheels.

If you know of a book that covers that middle ground, please suggest it.

:

Larry,

The book is an excellent resource. If someone has programming
knowledge, then it is a great first book. If not, then I

think
that it

would be too confusing in and of itself. I still recommend other
resources (but I don't know of any, mostly because the ADH

is
the only

Access book I own).

There are many questions in the newsgroups about looking at

code
and

not understanding where to put it or how to call it. These

are
the

kind of issues that a beginning VBA book needs to address.

The
ADH is

not geared towards those users, and as such, fails to get

people
from

0-60. Once at 60, however, it is a must have in any Access
user/developer's library.


Chris Nebinger


Larry Daugherty wrote:
Microsoft's overarching goal for Access is the same as

that
for any

other piece of software they produce: Sell product and generate
revenue. Their marketing strategy placed Access at the low

end
in the

Office suite. One of their ongoing marketing mantras has

to
be to

make beginning use of the product as easy as they can.

They
irritate

the professional developers among us by doing things

different
from

the way we think we'd do them. I believe that any product manager who
has revenue and profit responsibilities for the product

would
do

things in pretty much the same way. A product that's extremely
difficult to learn to use won't do well in the

marketplace.
They want

to keep that initial learning slope to first productive

use as
short

and shallow as possible.

They don't really mind that a lot of what they do to make

it
easier to

learn to do anything useful with Access will later be

shown to
be

dysfunctional dead ends. If they've turned a neophyte into an
enthusiastic customer and supporter they're on the right path.

By far, most Access applications are written by people who have no
understanding of an RDBMS or of any database lore. They

may
have

arrived at Access when they couldn't get Excel to do what

they
wanted

or they may have arrived there with knowledge only of Word

or
of

non-Microsoft products. I made a large part of my living

for
years

going into businesses and cleaning up mis-conceived and badly
implemented projects.

MS does things with Access that I hate; no naming

convention,
proudly

exposing Autonumbers on user forms, Lookup fields in

tables,
teaching

newbies to use macros, ... The list goes on. They're following their
path, not mine. But I'm sure glad that the real goodies

are
still

there in Access and that motivated developers can dig into

the
product

and create great product that is incredibly useful to the customer and
that stands the test of time.

MSs motivation is to provide a good, even excellent,

product
and

promote it to maximize their revenue. My motivation, and

I
assume

that of other Access developers, is to use that product as

a
platform

to provide excellent solutions to my clients and customers.

As to the Developer's Handbook by Getz et al.. Craig has objected to
my recommendation of it to novices before. I didn't bother to
respond. Klatuu gave my reasons in his response: The

books
and

accompanying CDs are filled with sample mini-apps. The

code
conforms

to the Reddick naming convention. In fact there's an

appendix
devoted

to it. There are lots of insights and solid solutions in every
edition. I recommend that anyone motivated to learn

Access
get

acquainted with the book. It is never a light read but it doesn't
approach the level of difficulty of advanced math or advanced
chemistry. Much of the code at www.mvps.org/access , particularly the
API based solutions, was contributed by Ken Getz (from the afore
mentioned books).

Klatuus references to Access Help and the Object Browser

are
worthy of

note. As I was first learning Access I got more

information
by

continually using and testing Help than from all of the

books.
It was

right there as I was doing what I was doing. The Object Browser is
also an excellent resource.

HTH

CD of
really

good
examples. Two other things that are of value, but sadly ignored by
many, is
VBA Help and the Object Browser.

The Object Browser is an excellent resource. It is what

I
used when

I first
started with Access to understand the Access Object

Model
and how to

work
with it.

As to your suggestion on spending a day at a good book store, I
concur.
When I am looking for a technical resource I will pick

up
every book

on the
subject and read some of it. If it is too simple or

over my
head,

it goes
back on the shelf. If it has info I don't know, but I can
understand what I
am reading, it goes out the dorr with me.

I think Microsoft could do a lot better job of providing beginner
level
info. My issue with Microsoft is they want to start everybody off
using
Macros and DoMenuItem. To me, the two most useless

pieces
of

Access. Even
when Microsoft provides info on VBA, it is often bad

advice.
They

don't
follow good naming conventions, and the programming techniques they
teach or,
IMHO, not very good practice.


:

I highly recommend the Developer's Handbook, but I

would
not

recommend
it for someone just starting out. It's more for the advanced
developer.

Spend a Saturday at Barnes & Noble and read EVERY

Access
book you

can.
Check them because most of them include alot of information on
Access
(Reports, Forms, Queries) and very little on VBA.


Chris Nebinger

Larry Daugherty wrote:
Get acquainted with Barnes & Noble, Borders, et

alia.
Look for

VBA
and Access books where Ken Getz is one of the

authors.
The

Access
[YourVersion] Developer's Handbook is highly

favored.
If you go

for
the 2000 version you only need the Desktop volume. There are
other
good authors. O'Reilly has some good books. There

are
also

lots of
good used books if the budget is tight. Shop in the bookstores
if you
are able. Buy where the price is right.

HTH

wrote
in

message
Hi there,
I have a new position where I will be maintaining (and
hopefully
creating)
access databases. I have enough knowledge to make me
dangerous (I
warned
them ahead of time too), but not enough to write

VBA
without a

lot
of sweat
and tears. Wouldn't you know it, the database I

will
be

maintaining
is all
done in VBA.
What resources would you recommend. I have a

simple
grasp of

SQL
and Macros
but VBA is formatted differently and throws me for

a
loop

everytime.
Any and
all resource suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
M. Thomas