Newbie - determination of what governs DOCTYPE - help please.

D

Dan

I don't know what DOCTYPE to use in my FP HTML. I'm guessing that the settings in Tools Page Options Authoring govern the DOCTYPE, but don't know how to use knowledge of those settings to tell me what DOCTYPE I should use. Can any kind soul please enlighten me

TI

Dan Ellis
 
J

Jon

Hi Dan,
in most cases you would use a loose doctype
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

Easiest way is to modify your page template to include this doctype so you
dont have to type it every time. Assuming youre using FP2003 open this file
C:\Program Files\Microsoft
Office\Templates\1033\PAGES11\normal.tem\normal.htm
in FP add the doctype and save it. Now every time you add a new page it will
have your doctype
In FP2000/2002 the file you want is
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Templates\1033\Pages\normal.tem\normal.htm

Jon
Microsoft MVP - FP


Dan said:
I don't know what DOCTYPE to use in my FP HTML. I'm guessing that the
settings in Tools Page Options Authoring govern the DOCTYPE, but don't know
how to use knowledge of those settings to tell me what DOCTYPE I should use.
Can any kind soul please enlighten me?
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

But recognize IE 6 responds differently to CSS if your doctype includes the URL or not
See
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp




| Hi Dan,
| in most cases you would use a loose doctype
| <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
| "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
|
| Easiest way is to modify your page template to include this doctype so you
| dont have to type it every time. Assuming youre using FP2003 open this file
| C:\Program Files\Microsoft
| Office\Templates\1033\PAGES11\normal.tem\normal.htm
| in FP add the doctype and save it. Now every time you add a new page it will
| have your doctype
| In FP2000/2002 the file you want is
| C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Templates\1033\Pages\normal.tem\normal.htm
|
| Jon
| Microsoft MVP - FP
|
|
| | > I don't know what DOCTYPE to use in my FP HTML. I'm guessing that the
| settings in Tools Page Options Authoring govern the DOCTYPE, but don't know
| how to use knowledge of those settings to tell me what DOCTYPE I should use.
| Can any kind soul please enlighten me?
| >
| > TIA
| >
| > Dan Ellis
|
|
 
J

Jon

Yes, that's a good thing. Putting a full doctype will make IE6 behave like
other modern browsers (ie put it into standards mode).

There's a few quirks to work around though - by far the most common is this
#someDiv {
width: 298px;
background-color: blue;
border: 1px solid #000;
padding: 50px;}

IE5 and IE6 without a full doctype will render this box as 298px wide
(padding and border are included inside the box). IE6 with a full doctype
(and all other modern browsers) will render the box 400px wide (298 + 50 +
50 + 1 + 1). So to get the box 400px wide in IE 5 as well we can add a
conditional comment -
<!--[if IE 5]>
<style>#someDiv {width: 400px;}</style>
<![endif]-->

Now the box renders the same in IE5 + and every other modern browser.

It's much easier to design for IE6 with a full doctype and then use
conditional comments to cover IE5 - you can then be sure of getting
consistent results in all browsers. Of course you don't need a copy of IE5
to test this, just change the comment to <!--[if gte IE 5]> take the doctype
out and test in IE6 - the page will then render as it would in IE5


Jon
Microsoft MVP - FP
 
D

Dan

Jon - excuse me for asking this question, but I can't find a way, other than by searching on my name, to identify threads in which I'm involved in this news group that have fresh postings (I'm using a browser to read the group). MS user group help says there should be a way to register to be notified when a thread to which I'm subscribed has something new,but for the life of me I can't find it, nor can I find a way to subscribe to a thred/topic whatever. Do I need to use a news reader to do that, would you know? Again, apologies for asking an off-topic question... A beginner is a beginner...

Dan Elli
webbie(removethis)@preferredcountry.com
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

That's why I think users can just assign doctypes w/o understanding they Do control browser rendering, and they need to research the
options available and then "code" based on the std selected

PS
Jon
confirm you got at least 3 MVP msgs at your new address




| Yes, that's a good thing. Putting a full doctype will make IE6 behave like
| other modern browsers (ie put it into standards mode).
|
| There's a few quirks to work around though - by far the most common is this
| #someDiv {
| width: 298px;
| background-color: blue;
| border: 1px solid #000;
| padding: 50px;}
|
| IE5 and IE6 without a full doctype will render this box as 298px wide
| (padding and border are included inside the box). IE6 with a full doctype
| (and all other modern browsers) will render the box 400px wide (298 + 50 +
| 50 + 1 + 1). So to get the box 400px wide in IE 5 as well we can add a
| conditional comment -
| <!--[if IE 5]>
| <style>#someDiv {width: 400px;}</style>
| <![endif]-->
|
| Now the box renders the same in IE5 + and every other modern browser.
|
| It's much easier to design for IE6 with a full doctype and then use
| conditional comments to cover IE5 - you can then be sure of getting
| consistent results in all browsers. Of course you don't need a copy of IE5
| to test this, just change the comment to <!--[if gte IE 5]> take the doctype
| out and test in IE6 - the page will then render as it would in IE5
|
|
| Jon
| Microsoft MVP - FP
|
| | > But recognize IE 6 responds differently to CSS if your doctype includes
| the URL or not
| > See
| >
| http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
| >
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| | > | Hi Dan,
| > | in most cases you would use a loose doctype
| > | <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
| > | "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
| > |
| > | Easiest way is to modify your page template to include this doctype so
| you
| > | dont have to type it every time. Assuming youre using FP2003 open this
| file
| > | C:\Program Files\Microsoft
| > | Office\Templates\1033\PAGES11\normal.tem\normal.htm
| > | in FP add the doctype and save it. Now every time you add a new page it
| will
| > | have your doctype
| > | In FP2000/2002 the file you want is
| > | C:\Program Files\Microsoft
| Office\Templates\1033\Pages\normal.tem\normal.htm
| > |
| > | Jon
| > | Microsoft MVP - FP
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > I don't know what DOCTYPE to use in my FP HTML. I'm guessing that the
| > | settings in Tools Page Options Authoring govern the DOCTYPE, but don't
| know
| > | how to use knowledge of those settings to tell me what DOCTYPE I should
| use.
| > | Can any kind soul please enlighten me?
| > | >
| > | > TIA
| > | >
| > | > Dan Ellis
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
D

Dan

Stefan - not sure what you're saying here - could you please elicit

Dan Elli
webbie(removethis)@preferredcountry.com
 
D

Dan

I meant elucidate - I must be getting senile!

Dan Ellis
webbie(removethis)@preferredcountry.com
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

Doctype tells the browser how to render the page
There is a reason for the different doctypes, and You need to review the links in this thread to understand what they do to your
page when viewed in different browsers or when assigned differently

That's why a doctype is not automatically assigned by FP to every page it creates
- You need to decide, based on your html coding and desired effects which one to use
- sometimes the wrong doctype is worse than no doctype

See
http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/struct/global.html#idx-document_type_declaration-3



| I meant elucidate - I must be getting senile!
|
| Dan Ellis
| webbie(removethis)@preferredcountry.com
 
D

Dan

OK - thanks Stefan - now I understand what you meant

Da

Dan Elli
webbie(removethis)@preferredcountry.com
 
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