Office 2007 install

J

Julsie

when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

Julsie

thnaks for response. When I click 'ignore' the setup hangs for quite a while
and thne comes up with same blank dialog box 'abort-retry-ignore'
i have tried clicking ignore a few times but eventually give up and cancel.
i found , unfortunately, that it had some effect on my computer in that
Outlook 2003 would not function and I started getting repeated "syshost"
failures needing repeated reboots. Eventually, i had to restore my computer
from a ghost image I had fortunately made before trying the beta office.
System restore ,as always, even though it used about 6 Gigabytes of hard
drive, failed to restore [ I have now stopped it forever]
As you will imagine, I am loath to try again right now. I will wait for The
disc I ordered from Microsoft and then afer another 'preventative ghost
image' will try again
regards,
Jules

Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

Julsie

thnaks for response. When I click 'ignore' the setup hangs for quite a while
and thne comes up with same blank dialog box 'abort-retry-ignore'
i have tried clicking ignore a few times but eventually give up and cancel.
i found , unfortunately, that it had some effect on my computer in that
Outlook 2003 would not function and I started getting repeated "syshost"
failures needing repeated reboots. Eventually, i had to restore my computer
from a ghost image I had fortunately made before trying the beta office.
System restore ,as always, even though it used about 6 Gigabytes of hard
drive, failed to restore [ I have now stopped it forever]
As you will imagine, I am loath to try again right now. I will wait for The
disc I ordered from Microsoft and then afer another 'preventative ghost
image' will try again
regards,
Jules

Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

Julsie

thnaks for response. When I click 'ignore' the setup hangs for quite a while
and thne comes up with same blank dialog box 'abort-retry-ignore'
i have tried clicking ignore a few times but eventually give up and cancel.
i found , unfortunately, that it had some effect on my computer in that
Outlook 2003 would not function and I started getting repeated "syshost"
failures needing repeated reboots. Eventually, i had to restore my computer
from a ghost image I had fortunately made before trying the beta office.
System restore ,as always, even though it used about 6 Gigabytes of hard
drive, failed to restore [ I have now stopped it forever]
As you will imagine, I am loath to try again right now. I will wait for The
disc I ordered from Microsoft and then afer another 'preventative ghost
image' will try again
regards,
Jules

Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

Julsie

thnaks for response. When I click 'ignore' the setup hangs for quite a while
and thne comes up with same blank dialog box 'abort-retry-ignore'
i have tried clicking ignore a few times but eventually give up and cancel.
i found , unfortunately, that it had some effect on my computer in that
Outlook 2003 would not function and I started getting repeated "syshost"
failures needing repeated reboots. Eventually, i had to restore my computer
from a ghost image I had fortunately made before trying the beta office.
System restore ,as always, even though it used about 6 Gigabytes of hard
drive, failed to restore [ I have now stopped it forever]
As you will imagine, I am loath to try again right now. I will wait for The
disc I ordered from Microsoft and then afer another 'preventative ghost
image' will try again
regards,
Jules

Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

Julsie

thnaks for response. When I click 'ignore' the setup hangs for quite a while
and thne comes up with same blank dialog box 'abort-retry-ignore'
i have tried clicking ignore a few times but eventually give up and cancel.
i found , unfortunately, that it had some effect on my computer in that
Outlook 2003 would not function and I started getting repeated "syshost"
failures needing repeated reboots. Eventually, i had to restore my computer
from a ghost image I had fortunately made before trying the beta office.
System restore ,as always, even though it used about 6 Gigabytes of hard
drive, failed to restore [ I have now stopped it forever]
As you will imagine, I am loath to try again right now. I will wait for The
disc I ordered from Microsoft and then afer another 'preventative ghost
image' will try again
regards,
Jules

Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

Julsie

thnaks for response. When I click 'ignore' the setup hangs for quite a while
and thne comes up with same blank dialog box 'abort-retry-ignore'
i have tried clicking ignore a few times but eventually give up and cancel.
i found , unfortunately, that it had some effect on my computer in that
Outlook 2003 would not function and I started getting repeated "syshost"
failures needing repeated reboots. Eventually, i had to restore my computer
from a ghost image I had fortunately made before trying the beta office.
System restore ,as always, even though it used about 6 Gigabytes of hard
drive, failed to restore [ I have now stopped it forever]
As you will imagine, I am loath to try again right now. I will wait for The
disc I ordered from Microsoft and then afer another 'preventative ghost
image' will try again
regards,
Jules

Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

Julsie

thnaks for response. When I click 'ignore' the setup hangs for quite a while
and thne comes up with same blank dialog box 'abort-retry-ignore'
i have tried clicking ignore a few times but eventually give up and cancel.
i found , unfortunately, that it had some effect on my computer in that
Outlook 2003 would not function and I started getting repeated "syshost"
failures needing repeated reboots. Eventually, i had to restore my computer
from a ghost image I had fortunately made before trying the beta office.
System restore ,as always, even though it used about 6 Gigabytes of hard
drive, failed to restore [ I have now stopped it forever]
As you will imagine, I am loath to try again right now. I will wait for The
disc I ordered from Microsoft and then afer another 'preventative ghost
image' will try again
regards,
Jules

Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

Julsie

thnaks for response. When I click 'ignore' the setup hangs for quite a while
and thne comes up with same blank dialog box 'abort-retry-ignore'
i have tried clicking ignore a few times but eventually give up and cancel.
i found , unfortunately, that it had some effect on my computer in that
Outlook 2003 would not function and I started getting repeated "syshost"
failures needing repeated reboots. Eventually, i had to restore my computer
from a ghost image I had fortunately made before trying the beta office.
System restore ,as always, even though it used about 6 Gigabytes of hard
drive, failed to restore [ I have now stopped it forever]
As you will imagine, I am loath to try again right now. I will wait for The
disc I ordered from Microsoft and then afer another 'preventative ghost
image' will try again
regards,
Jules

Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi Julsie,

The blank dialog box for shutting down apps is an issue with 2007 Office Beta 2 that MS is aware of. The next step is to [ignore]
your way through to complete the install then restart the PC to clear up any navel lint left around.

What is the result when you click on [Ignore]?

=========
when trying to install office 2007 beta the installation stops around about
3/4 of the way with the error that "the following programs need to be
closed", but nothing shows.
In spite of closing every single program I can and nothing running in task
manager the same error keeps coming up .
Clicking on the retry or ignore gives the same result
Anyone else have similar problem?
How do I overcome this?>>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.word.
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/?dg=microsoft.public.word.

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com
 
J

JG007

exactly the same problems here :(, keeps on bringing up the dialogue bos no
matter how many times I click install. I have tried closing everything I
could safely do through task manager but no luck and it's a good job I use
outlook express :).

I am using windows defender and zone alarm, maybe one of those is causing
problems. will retry eventually but any ideas appreciated
 
J

JG007

exactly the same problems here :(, keeps on bringing up the dialogue bos no
matter how many times I click install. I have tried closing everything I
could safely do through task manager but no luck and it's a good job I use
outlook express :).

I am using windows defender and zone alarm, maybe one of those is causing
problems. will retry eventually but any ideas appreciated
 
J

JG007

exactly the same problems here :(, keeps on bringing up the dialogue bos no
matter how many times I click install. I have tried closing everything I
could safely do through task manager but no luck and it's a good job I use
outlook express :).

I am using windows defender and zone alarm, maybe one of those is causing
problems. will retry eventually but any ideas appreciated
 

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