OL2003, send/receive fail only at first start of day

Z

ZILLA

I have the SAME problem. I also use PC-cillin 2005. At the moment I'm
testing some setting changes in the "Personal Firewall" section of this
suite. I have edited the default settings in the exceptions list as follows:

1. Put a check mark under "Active" for everything that says Outlook, port
25, and port 110. (There are others, but make sure of these.)
2. Change the POP 3/Port 110 exception from "Out" to "In".

I really like this antivirus/firewall and must admit disappointment if this
is the cause of our dilemma. BUT, to Trend Micro's credit, I ran a firewall
test at a very reputable site and the results were that I am completely
stealth.

As far as our Outlook issue is concerned, these changes have worked for me
these first two days. Hopefully not a fluke. Still testing.

ZILLA
 
P

pb2000

First to Jeff,

recall that the first the you asked me to do was uninstall PC-cillin and
reinstall without the email scanning. I did that. And then subsequently went
into PC-cillin to verify that email scanning was indeed not turned on.

I've used a registry cleaner to look for remnants of past software - e.g.
McAfee VirusScan Pro 7.0 and the PC-cillin anti-spam for Outlook (obviously
not antivirus, but I was checking for anything). No remnants found.

I also tried turning off Spybot Search and Destroy's real-time spyware
checkers. This had no impact.

The problem is still there. Any further thoughts?

ZILLA:

Thanks for this suggestion. I don't know that it will help, though. I'm
actually behind a hardware NAT firewall built into my wireless router. In the
past I've disabled the PC-cillin firewall entirely and the problem remained.
 
P

Peter Ritchie

pb2000,

I had a similar problem with my mail provider a while back. It turns out
that they instigated a outgoing mail server authentication policy. The
policy was that POP3 mail had to be received (or logged into) before (within
a specified period of time) access to the SMTP server would succeed for that
IP. Since Outlook would send mail then check for mail, the first send would
fail. Subsequent send/receives would work fine, since the SMTP access had
been authenticated by the POP3 login.

Luckily OL2003 added a feature for this for individual accounts. You need
to tell Outlook that it should login to the POP3 server before sending mail:

Tools/E-mail accounts
Click "View or change existing e-mail accounts.", then "Next >"
double-click the account in question.
Click "More Settings..." button
Click "Outgoing Server" tab.
Check "My outgoing server (SMTP) requires authentication"
Click "Log on to incoming mail server before sending mail"

Let us know if that works

-- Peter
 
P

pb2000

Hi Peter,

Hmmm. I'll try this although recall that it's the receive that fails for me
- never the send. The sends always complete. It's one or more of the receives
that gets stuck. Nonetheless, I'll give it a try and report back.

Thanks,
Pete
 
P

pb2000

Hi Peter,

I tried this. First a note: Both my email providers (Worldnet and Yahoo
business mail) require authentication. With authentication on, the option was
the first one, to use the same settings as the incoming server uses.

Switching to the one you suggested: I could no longer send an email. I got
an error 530 that authentication was required. I reverted to the previous
settings - still using authentication and specifying to use the same settings
as the incoming server. Manually sending a message again works fine. So, it
doesn't seem that this resolves my problem with send failures at the
automatic initial send/receive.

Pete
 
Z

ZILLA

Wow, OK, I -also- have Yahoo POP mail accounts, and that's where mine is
hanging. I'll bet you a dime to a dollar that's where our issue is.

I was hopeful the firewall settings would resolve this, but no, it failed me
again this morning. I have to turn off the first e-mail check when I open
Outlook, then just let it do it's automatic check ten minutes later. Outlook
from then on handles e-mail polls just fine.

It's almost like that initial handshake with the servers fails or bombs out.
I say that because sometimes it will actually grab 1 or 2 then stop. The
other day it got stuck and repeatedly downloaded all messages; I ended up
with hundreds.

Well, I'm gonna contact Yahoo and Trend Micro to see if they have any
insight. I'll give them the link to this thread, and report here if I get
any information.

ZILLA
 
P

pb2000

Hi ZILLA,

I also find that turning off the autoconnect function on Outlook eliminates
the problem. The limitation there, of course, is that Outlook then also does
not do the periodic checks while I am on-line. That is important to receive
email during the day...

I experience receive hangs on both AT&T Worldnet and Yahoo (both POP/SMTP)
although to your point - a problem on Yahoo may well cause a lock-up on any
of the receives since they're all going on at the same time.

It will be interesting to hear what you learn from Yahoo and Trend Micro.

Pete
 
P

pb2000

Hi Jeff,

Just wanted to check, given that we'd already done an uninstall and
reinstall of PC-cillin if you had other thoughts to try here.

Thanks,
Pete
 
J

Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]

First to Jeff,

recall that the first the you asked me to do was uninstall PC-cillin and
reinstall without the email scanning. I did that. And then subsequently went
into PC-cillin to verify that email scanning was indeed not turned on.

I've used a registry cleaner to look for remnants of past software - e.g.
McAfee VirusScan Pro 7.0 and the PC-cillin anti-spam for Outlook (obviously
not antivirus, but I was checking for anything). No remnants found.

I also tried turning off Spybot Search and Destroy's real-time spyware
checkers. This had no impact.

The problem is still there. Any further thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'm running out of thoughts. You might try running Outlook in "safe mode"
(which disables all addins) by typing "outlook /safe" at a command line
while in the directory containing outlook.exe. If that doesn't work,
getting a network sniff during that initial send/receive might be the next
step in diagnosis.
 
Z

ZILLA

Well, I spent the day testing. What follows is a copy of the Word document
outlining the results. I have also included here a copy of the log from one
of those times that I get an error. Copies have been sent to Microsoft and
Trend Micro. To this point, Microsoft is the only one to respond to my
queries
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Microsoft Outlook 2003 and
Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security 2005
Incompatibility Tests

At issue with these tests is the failure of Outlook to properly download
messages, from POP 3 accounts, when Outlook is first started. After this
initial failure, polling for, and downloading messages during the same
session is normal and successful. HTTP accounts are unaffected. Polling is
set at 10 minute intervals; account server timeouts are set at 5 minutes.

Testing Machine: Dell Dimension 8100; Pentium 4, 1300 MHz; 512 MB RAM;
Windows XP Home SP2.
Software at Issue: Microsoft Office Outlook, Student and Teacher Edition
2003 SP1; Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security 2005 version 12.1.1014.
All updates and drivers are current and installed, for operating system and
software.
(Green assumes a good action/result. Red assumes a bad action/result.)
FOCUS ON OUTLOOK SAFE MODE and ADD-INS
1. Fresh boot computer; Start Outlook in Safe Mode (Start>Run>â€Outlook
/Safeâ€):
RESULT: FAIL
2. Remove add-ins as per instructions from Microsoft; Reboot; Start Outlook
normally:
RESULT: FAIL
3. Reinstall add-ins.

FOCUS ON PC-CILLIN INTERNET SECURITY
4. Reboot computer; Start Outlook normally:
RESULT: FAIL
5. Reboot computer; Disable PC-cillin; Start Outlook normally:
RESULT: SUCCESS
6. Uninstall PC-cillin; Reboot computer; Start Outlook normally:
RESULT: SUCCESS
7. Shut down computer; Wait 30 minutes; Start computer; Start Outlook
normally:
RESULT: SUCCESS
8. Install PC-cillin; Reboot computer; Download updates; Reboot computer;
Start Outlook normally:
RESULT: FAIL

VERIFY PC-CILLIN INVOLVEMENT
9. Shut down computer; Wait 60 minutes; Start computer; Start Outlook
normally:
RESULT: FAIL
10. Uninstall PC-cillin; Restart computer; Start Outlook normally:
RESULT: SUCCESS
11. Shut down computer; Wait 60 minutes; Start computer; Start Outlook
normally:
RESULT: SUCCESS
12. Install PC-cillin; Reboot computer; Download updates; Reboot computer;
Start Outlook normally; Turn on logging:
RESULT: FAIL
13. Shut down computer; Wait 60 minutes; Start computer; Start Outlook
normally:
RESULT: FAIL (LOGGED
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2005.01.20 13:19:35 <<<< Logging Started (level is LTF_TRACE) >>>>
2005.01.20 13:19:35 1.zilla@sbcglobal: Synch operation started (flags =
00000001)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 1.zilla@sbcglobal: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2005.01.20 13:19:35 1.zilla@sbcglobal: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:19:35 1.zilla@sbcglobal: Synch operation started (flags =
00000030)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 1.zilla@sbcglobal: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030, max
msg = ffffffff): full items
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Begin execution
2005.01.20 13:19:35 2.zillaphoto@sbcglobal: Synch operation started (flags =
00000001)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 2.zillaphoto@sbcglobal: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2005.01.20 13:19:35 2.zillaphoto@sbcglobal: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:19:35 2.zillaphoto@sbcglobal: Synch operation started (flags =
00000030)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 2.zillaphoto@sbcglobal: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030,
max msg = ffffffff): full items
2005.01.20 13:19:35 3.zilla@zillaphoto: Synch operation started (flags =
00000001)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Begin execution
2005.01.20 13:19:35 3.zilla@zillaphoto: 2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3
(pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): ========= Initial blob =========
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com):
===================================
UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2005.01.20 13:19:35 3.zilla@zillaphoto: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:19:35 3.zilla@zillaphoto: Synch operation started (flags =
00000030)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 3.zilla@zillaphoto: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030, max
msg = ffffffff): full items
2005.01.20 13:19:35 4.sched@zillaphoto: Synch operation started (flags =
00000001)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Begin execution
2005.01.20 13:19:35 4.sched@zillaphoto: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2005.01.20 13:19:35 4.sched@zillaphoto: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:19:35 4.sched@zillaphoto: Synch operation started (flags =
00000030)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 4.sched@zillaphoto: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030, max
msg = ffffffff): full items
2005.01.20 13:19:35 H4L@HM: Synch operation started (flags = 00000001)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): ========= Initial blob
=========
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com):
===================================
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Begin execution
2005.01.20 13:19:35 H4L@HM: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2005.01.20 13:19:35 H4L@HM: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Port: 110, Secure: no,
SPA: no
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Finding host
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Port: 110, Secure: no, SPA: no
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Finding host
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Connecting to host
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Connecting to host
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Connected to host
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Connected to host
2005.01.20 13:19:35 Zp@HM: Synch operation started (flags = 00000001)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 Zp@HM: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2005.01.20 13:19:35 Zp@HM: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:19:35 ZR@HM: Synch operation started (flags = 00000001)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 ZR@HM: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2005.01.20 13:19:35 ZR@HM: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK hello from
popgate(2.27.5)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Authorizing to server
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] USER [email protected]
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK hello from
popgate(2.27.5)
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Authorizing to server
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): [tx] USER
[email protected]
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK password required.
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] PASS *****
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK password
required.
2005.01.20 13:19:35 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): [tx] PASS *****
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK maildrop ready, 1
message (2023 octets) (764 2147483648)
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Authorized to host
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Connected to host
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] STAT
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK maildrop ready,
0 messages (0 octets) (0 262144000)
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Authorized to host
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Connected to host
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): [tx] STAT
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK 1 2023
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] UIDL
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK 0 0
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): ==== Comparing server
and local blobs ====
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com):
==========================================
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Do deletions: LoS: no
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Disconnecting from host
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): [tx] QUIT
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK 1 message (2023
octets)
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> 1
9995de30585d7912f2d34c2bbe0045cc
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> .
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] LIST
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK server signing
off.
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Disconnected from host
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): ========= No blob
changes =========
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com):
===================================
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): End execution
2005.01.20 13:19:36 2.zillaphoto@sbcglobal: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr
= 0x00000000
2005.01.20 13:19:36 2.zillaphoto@sbcglobal: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): ========= Initial blob
=========
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com):
===================================
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Port: 110, Secure: no,
SPA: no
2005.01.20 13:19:36 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Finding host
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK 1 message (2023
octets)
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> 1 2023
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> .
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): ==== Comparing server and
local blobs ====
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com):
9995de30585d7912f2d34c2bbe0045cc : new
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com):
==========================================
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] RETR 1
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK 2030 octets
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Connected to host
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK hello from
popgate(2.27.5)
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Authorizing to server
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): [tx] USER
[email protected]
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK password
required.
2005.01.20 13:19:37 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): [tx] PASS *****
2005.01.20 13:19:38 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Do deletions: LoS: no
2005.01.20 13:19:38 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] DELE 1
2005.01.20 13:20:09 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): <rx> -ERR maildrop busy.
2005.01.20 13:20:09 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Retrying authorization
2005.01.20 13:20:09 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): Disconnected from host
2005.01.20 13:20:09 POP3 (pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com): End execution
2005.01.20 13:20:09 1.zilla@sbcglobal: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr =
0x8004210e
2005.01.20 13:20:09 1.zilla@sbcglobal: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Connected to host
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Disconnected from host
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): ========= Updates to blob
=========
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com):
&B9995de30585d7912f2d34c2bbe0045cc
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): ========= Final blob
=========
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com):
&B9995de30585d7912f2d34c2bbe0045cc
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com):
===================================
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): End execution
2005.01.20 13:21:00 3.zilla@zillaphoto: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr =
0x00000000
2005.01.20 13:21:00 3.zilla@zillaphoto: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): ========= Initial blob
=========
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com):
===================================
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Port: 110, Secure: no, SPA: no
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Finding host
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Connected to host
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK hello from
popgate(2.27.5)
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Authorizing to server
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] USER [email protected]
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> +OK password required.
2005.01.20 13:21:00 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): [tx] PASS *****
2005.01.20 13:21:31 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): <rx> -ERR maildrop busy.
2005.01.20 13:21:31 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Retrying authorization
2005.01.20 13:21:31 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): Disconnected from host
2005.01.20 13:21:31 POP3 (pop.mail.yahoo.com): End execution
2005.01.20 13:21:31 4.sched@zillaphoto: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr =
0x8004210e
2005.01.20 13:21:31 4.sched@zillaphoto: Synch operation completed
2005.01.20 13:25:18 Resource manager terminated
 
J

Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]

Well, I spent the day testing. What follows is a copy of the Word document
outlining the results. I have also included here a copy of the log from one
of those times that I get an error. Copies have been sent to Microsoft and
Trend Micro. To this point, Microsoft is the only one to respond to my
queries.
Click to expand...

So it looks like PC-cillin is the culprit. I assume that you want some
sort of virus protection... Does PC-cillin have a "real-time" or
"on-access" component that is separate from its mail-scanning component?
If so, what happens if you turn off only the mail-scanning component,
rather than uninstalling PC-cillin entirely?

Both of you seem to have multiple accounts, all of which are checked at
startup - I wonder if PC-cillin has a problem with that particular
situation...
 
P

pb2000

Jeff Stephenson said:
So it looks like PC-cillin is the culprit. I assume that you want some
sort of virus protection... Does PC-cillin have a "real-time" or
"on-access" component that is separate from its mail-scanning component?
If so, what happens if you turn off only the mail-scanning component,
rather than uninstalling PC-cillin entirely?

Both of you seem to have multiple accounts, all of which are checked at
startup - I wonder if PC-cillin has a problem with that particular
situation...
Click to expand...
Hi Jeff,

I agree - ZILLA's troubleshooting points to an interaction between OL2003
and PC-cillin, perhaps due in part to mutiple accounts.

PC-cillin does have a separate set of options for incoming and outgoing
email scanning, distinct from the real-time scanning. I have had both
directions of email scanning turned off all along. Just having that turned
off does not seem to remove the conflict.

I am trying two things now: I have Winfax Pro 10.03 on the PC although NOT
integrated into Outlook. Following Symantec instructions about completely
disabling Winfax from Outlook I turned off the DCCExtensions add-in and
renamed four DLLs (dccmsp32, wfxext, dccwfp32, and wfoladin) so they don't
load. I also disabled the Exchange Extensions Property Pages add-in.

I also disabled the automatic update function of PC-cillin. I am trying this
since I have found that PC-cillin frequently is checking the Trend Micro
website for updates during the initial Outlook automatic send/receive.

So far with these changes, Outlook has come on and done an initial
send/receive properly twice although both within one day. I will keep an eye
on this to see how it behaves over the coming day or two and report back.

By the way - you referred to a network sniff as a possible next step. What
is that and how would I do it?

Thanks,
Pete
 
P

pb2000

OL got stuck again on one of the receives this morning. When I then clicked
for a manual send/receive, it all worked fine.

So, completely unintegrating Winfax Pro 10.03 and disabling just the
autoupdate capability in PC-cillin Internet Security 2005 has no effect on
this problem.

And to note - I have all email scanning turned off in PC-cillin.

ZILLA's troubleshooting still points to an interaction between OL2003 and
PC-cillin.

Anyone have further thoughts on how we might proceed? It seems that someone
needs to analyze how the two programs interact to find the root cause. Can
Microsoft and Trend Micro take this on as a bug problem to fix?
 
Z

ZILLA

Upon reading Jeff's suggestion about mail scanning, I've been testing
different combinations of the following configuration settings:
-Firewall
-Anti-Spam
-Manual scanning
-Real-time scanning
-Mail scanning
-Web mail scanning
All combinations have failed the initial poll/download of messages when
Outlook is first fired up. At this point that still leaves the singular
resolution of disabling (or uninstalling) PC-cillin.
A note of promise though, is that Microsoft is still trying to help; and now
Trend Micro has contacted me, and seems very eager to sort this out.
Thanks for your continued feedback, Peter. And thanks for continuing to
follow this thread, Jeff, and giving your input.
ZILLA
 
J

Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]

ZILLA's troubleshooting still points to an interaction between OL2003 and
PC-cillin.
Anyone have further thoughts on how we might proceed?
Click to expand...

Can you duplicate ZILLA's results? His trials involved uninstalling
PC-cillin completely, rather than just disabling the mail scanning portion.
If a complete uninstall doesn't fix it for you, it says that you and he are
having different issues, and that we need to look at other options.
It seems that someone needs to analyze how the two programs interact to
find the root cause. Can Microsoft and Trend Micro take this on as a bug
problem to fix?
Click to expand...

Frankly, I don't think this is something that we at Microsoft can do
anything about. As far as I know, Outlook works with all SMTP and POP3
servers just fine (even many that aren't strictly standards-compliant).
It's only when some other program tries to wedge itself between Outlook and
the server that the problems start.

To me, that says that it is the wedging program that is at fault. That's
not surprising. The folks who do anti-virus products are experts in
detecting viruses, not in writing email programs, yet in order to scan mail
as it arrives they need to be, effectively, an email program. Believe me -
there's a lot more to writing an email program than just reading the
appropriate RFCs (Internet standards). There's a lot of experience (I've
been doing email for a decade) and out-of-band knowledge that is needed,
yet time and again I encounter people that think that they can read the
standards, and then write a production-quality email program in a week. To
them I say "Dream on!".

Have you tried contacting Trend Micro? If so, what's their take on this?
 
P

pb2000

I have been able to duplicate at least part of ZILLA's testing:

Today after turning on the PC I disabled PC-cillin completely. First turned
off the real-time scanner and then closed the entire program. (Did not
uninstall.)

Opened Outlook and the first auto send/receive completed normally.

Closed Outlook, Re-enabled PC-cillin, restarted PC, Re-opened Outlook. The
first auto send/receive also completed normally.

I'll keep trying this for a few days to see if the very first send/receive
of the day continues to complete normally.
 
P

pb2000

Three days now where after booting to desktop I (1) disabled PC-cillin
real-time scanning and then turning off PC-cillin , (2) turned on OL2003 for
the fist time of the day, and (3) saw the first automatic send/receive
complete normally. This seems to duplicate part of ZILLA's testing
consistently.

The other part of ZILLA's testing was during the day to turn PC-cillin back
on, reboot, and have the first send/receive after the reboot fail. I have NOT
been able to duplicate behavior at all. On my PC after the first send/receive
works it seems that all others will as well.

I've posted this to Trend Micro. No response yet.
 
P

pb2000

I found two registry entries that seem suspicious:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\TRENDMICRO\TmProxy\Scan\Pop3\MailManager

and the same key with Pop3 changed to Smtp.

Both had a variable Enable=1. Compared to other TrendMicro settings there,
it seemed these should be set to 0 or off. I changed both to 0.

Now I am running with PC-cillin enabled, NO email scanning, and these
changed registry settings. Only one day of testing so far. This morning
configured this way the initial OL automatic send/receive completed normally.
Will have to follow it for a few more days to see how it goes.

ZILLA - it would be interesting to see if you find similar registry settings.

I've still not heard back from Trend Micro. I've followed up with a second
email.
 
J

Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]

I found two registry entries that seem suspicious:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\TRENDMICRO\TmProxy\Scan\Pop3\MailManager

and the same key with Pop3 changed to Smtp.

Both had a variable Enable=1. Compared to other TrendMicro settings there,
it seemed these should be set to 0 or off. I changed both to 0.

Now I am running with PC-cillin enabled, NO email scanning, and these
changed registry settings. Only one day of testing so far. This morning
configured this way the initial OL automatic send/receive completed normally.
Will have to follow it for a few more days to see how it goes.

ZILLA - it would be interesting to see if you find similar registry settings.

I've still not heard back from Trend Micro. I've followed up with a second
email.
Click to expand...

Cool. Sounds to me like you nailed it - those registry entries do sound
suspicious. Good detective work!
 
Z

ZILLA

Good job Peter!
I have been chomping at the bit to dive into the Trend Micro registry
settings, but have been hard pressed to find the time.
I am little disappointed at Trend Micro tech support. At first they seemed
eager to help, but now they are kind of going in circles.
Since you mentioned TmProxy, I did a google search and found a support
article from Europe that mentioned changing the "TmProxy.exe" to
"TmProxy.old" which, of course would render it useless. This may be the same
net effect as your changes to the registry. My only concern is it's overall
impact on security, as I believe this disables the mail scanning, and leaves
only real time scanning. This program has caught no less than six viruses or
worms while scanning incoming mail on my system, so it's just a little nerve
racking not to have it. I have implemented this change, though, and after a
single test I too had a successful result. I will keep you informed.
ZILLA
 
Top