ON 07 B2TR - Icon links fixed!

G

Grant Robertson

It no longer sends the CPU to 100% when you open then close a file via an
icon link. It also doesn't create a bunch of extra files either.

After checking, I have found that ON no longer puts these files into
separate SectionName_onefiles folders. Now it puts them all in a single
folder called OneNoteOfflineCache_Files which you can locate anywhere you
want via the options dialog.
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Grant said:
It no longer sends the CPU to 100% when you open then close a file
via an icon link. It also doesn't create a bunch of extra files
either.

After checking, I have found that ON no longer puts these files into
separate SectionName_onefiles folders. Now it puts them all in a
single folder called OneNoteOfflineCache_Files which you can locate
anywhere you want via the options dialog.

Yeah!
Great improvement.
It's ineterseting also that there no longer s a separate forlder fro
Audio files.

Rainald
 
G

Grant Robertson

After checking, I have found that ON no longer puts these files into
separate SectionName_onefiles folders. Now it puts them all in a single
folder called OneNoteOfflineCache_Files which you can locate anywhere you
want via the options dialog.

I just realized something that I really, really don't like about this.
ALL files even for closed notebooks are in this folder. If I close a
notebook, .ZIP it up, and move it to an external drive or burn it to a CD
for archival purposes then those files won't be with it! Not only that,
but if I wanted to dig out those files I would have to look at every inch
of every page in the notebook I was wanting to archive and check which
files were icon-linked to it. Then, since the properties for the link
only report the original name of the file (not the numbered copy produced
by OneNote) there is no easy way to determine which copy is the one
associated with that page. This, of course, is too much trouble.

Not only that, but I lied about it making lots of copies. I had only
initially thought it wasn't making extra copies because it had left old
copies in the SectionName_onefiles folder and those weren't multiplying
(because they were being ignored). I just did a test with a simple text
file. Every time I opened and saved a copy it created 2 (yes, TWO)
additional copies of the file. The old version was left with its old
version number and two new copies were saved with the new changes. These
copies are sequentially numbered as if they are different versions. If
you copy the link to another page in OneNote then it will copy the file
two more times. They keep the same base filename but just increment the
sequence of numbers using up two more versions.

All this essentially makes Icon Links utterly worthless! It's a black
hole of continuously multiplying files that hog hard drive space,
can't be reliably indexed or searched, and can't be archived without
untold hours of tedious work.

What the heck were they thinking? I remember mentioning the possibility
of putting all the audio files in one folder as a way to handle the
possibility of people splitting up pages with audio notes attached to
different parts. But I never expected this! An icon-link can only be
associated with one part of a page. There is no real reason to put them
all in one place.

If they don't switch these files back to the _onefiles folders kept with
the sections then they might as well just take the whole thing out
entirely. Now I have to go through all my notebooks and yank out all the
icon links, store the files where I can find them, and insert text links
to the files. I haven't double checked but hopefully they haven't hosed
that up yet.

Also note, this means you can't drag and drop a file onto a page to print
it as a picture in OneNote. This is because it will also create an icon-
link to the page. This will also copy the file to the
OneNoteOfflineCache_Files folder. I guess you could always do it anyway,
delete the icon, then go back and empty that darn
OneNoteOfflineCache_Files folder every once in a while. {Just don't
delete the OneNoteOfflineCache.onecache file itself in the parent
folder.}

Why Oh Why does Microsoft always do this. They fix a technical part of
something only to totally hose up the basic use of the feature so that it
is essentially worthless! It is as if they are just trying to drive us
crazy!
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Not sure I get what you are complaining about fully (I haven't really
looked in depth at ON yet), but there is an easy way to archive your
stuff. File, Save As, OneNote Single File Package (onepkg). That format
stores all the .one files you choose plus all associated embedded files
into one single file that can be opened by ON again.

Patrick Schmid
 
G

Grant Robertson

pds- said:
Not sure I get what you are complaining about fully (I haven't really
looked in depth at ON yet), but there is an easy way to archive your
stuff. File, Save As, OneNote Single File Package (onepkg). That format
stores all the .one files you choose plus all associated embedded files
into one single file that can be opened by ON again.

Oh, thank goodness! I was not looking forward to all that work!

I don't have time to check this right now. If I do this, then close the
notebook, will all those files be removed from the cache folder?

Also, that still doesn't take care of the infinitely multiplying files
problem. Does ON go back and remove the extras later? If it doesn't how
am I supposed to know which ones are safe to delete? Remember, if you
copy the icon it copies the file. (To solve that problem I guess I could
always insert a link to the paragraph containing the first icon-link
rather than copy the link.)
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Oh, thank goodness! I was not looking forward to all that work!
I don't have time to check this right now. If I do this, then close the
notebook, will all those files be removed from the cache folder?
That would be the idea...Want to be the first one to test?
Also, that still doesn't take care of the infinitely multiplying files
problem. Does ON go back and remove the extras later? If it doesn't how
am I supposed to know which ones are safe to delete? Remember, if you
copy the icon it copies the file. (To solve that problem I guess I could
always insert a link to the paragraph containing the first icon-link
rather than copy the link.)
Do you mean multiple copies in the cache or in the actual folders with
the .one files? As a safe measure, I'd wipe out the complete cache and
let it rebuild after installing B2TR (maybe first copy the files in the
cache folder somewhere else, just in case).

Patrick Schmid
 
G

Grant Robertson

I don't have time to check this right now. If I do this, then close the
notebook, will all those files be removed from the cache folder?

OK, so I had to know, so I checked it anyway. No, it does NOT delete the
files when the notebook is closed. Of course some would say, "Where would
they be then?" Well, I say that the cache should only be for CACHEING
files not the only storage location. "But what about the original?" Do
you mean to tell me that I should keep an original AND OneNote's copy
around just so I can have a pretty icon-link instead of a plain text
link? No thanks. I will just use plain text links and archive the OneNote
notebook by just closing the notebook and zipping up the folder.

Unless they fix this, the feature is essentially worthless to me and I
won't be using it.
 
G

Grant Robertson

pds- said:
Do you mean multiple copies in the cache or in the actual folders with
the .one files? As a safe measure, I'd wipe out the complete cache and
let it rebuild after installing B2TR (maybe first copy the files in the
cache folder somewhere else, just in case).

Multiple copies in the cache.

It is not keeping ANY copies in the actual folders with the .one files.
The ONLY copies are in the cache! So, definitely DO NOT wipe out the
cache.

Now you may be seeing some _onefiles folders in the same folders as your
..one files. However, these are only the old ones left behind by the
conversion to B2TR format. These _onefiles folders are NOT being used by
B2TR at all.
 
P

Patrick Schmid

I wanted to wipe out my cache on my tablet anyhow soon and let it
rebuild everything completely from scratch. I'll let you know how that
goes.

Patrick Schmid
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Grant said:
I just realized something that I really, really don't like about
this.
ALL files even for closed notebooks are in this folder.
...
...

What you report sound rather dramatical.
Will go into this.
Seems like the weekend is saved :-( :-(

Rainald
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Patrick said:
Not sure I get what you are complaining about fully (I haven't
really
looked in depth at ON yet), but there is an easy way to archive your
stuff. File, Save As, OneNote Single File Package (onepkg). That
format stores all the .one files you choose plus all associated
embedded files into one single file that can be opened by ON again.

This IMO is nothinh more than a workarund for the moment.
This could not be called a workable solution for the future.

Rainald
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Grant said:
Oh, thank goodness! I was not looking forward to all that work!

This fro sure can not be the way the final version will work.
IMO it's not even disputable to have the "embedded" files nowhere
except in the cache area.
Incedible that even backups will be without the embedded files.
I don't have time to check this right now. If I do this, then close
the notebook, will all those files be removed from the cache folder?

No. They stay there.
Also, that still doesn't take care of the infinitely multiplying
files
problem. Does ON go back and remove the extras later? If it doesn't
how am I supposed to know which ones are safe to delete?

No way.
Not even the file date.
It could be that one holds one and the same files in several notebooks
and/or on several pages.
That's the case., f.e., with some audio files which I use for
demonstarting ON (Yes, I do that quite even y<g> - no one in my
vicinity who will not be subjetct to my preaching said:
Remember, if
you copy the icon it copies the file. (To solve that problem I guess
I could always insert a link to the paragraph containing the first
icon-link rather than copy the link.)

Nothing but a preliminary workaround for the time being.
Not workable.

Rainald
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Patrick said:
Do you mean multiple copies in the cache or in the actual folders
with
the .one files?

There are no more files at all in the ON notebooks directories.
Embedded files are only in the Cache folder!!!!
As a safe measure, I'd wipe out the complete cache and
let it rebuild after installing B2TR (maybe first copy the files in
the cache folder somewhere else, just in case).

I had been careless enough to delete everything in the Cache folders
and then had the cache built anew.

Bang! No audio wolud play any more.
Fortunately I noticed that early enough so that I could undelete the
stuff (was still in the cache of Norton Protection).

Rainald
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Patrick said:
I wanted to wipe out my cache on my tablet anyhow soon and let it
rebuild everything completely from scratch. I'll let you know how
that
goes.

Make copies first!!!
I can not yet say what might happen on synching.
Did only work on my desktop so far and left the TabletPC aside as I
will first have to uninstall Office and install the 2007 Beta versions
(HDD not big enpugh for using VM).

Rainald
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Grant said:
... No, it does NOT delete
the files when the notebook is closed.

I can confirm this.
Of course some would say,
"Where would they be then?" Well, I say that the cache should only
be
for CACHEING files not the only storage location.

100% D'accord!!
"But what about the
original?" Do you mean to tell me that I should keep an original AND
OneNote's copy around just so I can have a pretty icon-link instead
of a plain text link? No thanks.

Not a way that could be called a way to really work.
IMO it's a true must to store the embedded files together with the
notebooks which use them.

Thnak you so much for your work.
IMO we should urgently ring the alarm bells in Connect and also in
Daniel's blogs.

As you are bit ahead of me, would you pls start and let us know?

Rainald
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Calm down!
It seems to be all good. Give me a few more minutes to test some things
here.

Patrick Schmid
 
P

Patrick Schmid

It actually works fairly well :)
Here is what I did:
1. I took an existing note page with an embedded file. I first verified
that the file existed in the cache.
2. I created a new empty section and copied the page into it.
3. Then I closed the section, moved it out of my OneNote Notebooks
folder and deleted all the files from the cache (not the cache itself,
but the _onefiles folder).
4. The size of the new section file went up quite a bit. Too big a size
increase considering how little text was on that page.
5. I then opened the section separately (File, Open Section). The
embedded file was there and I could open it perfectly. The embedded file
had also appeared in the cache _onefiles folder.
6. I closed the section and the file did not disappear from the cache.
7. I reopened the section, and it created a new copy of the file in the
cache.
8. I closed the section, deleted the cache files again, reopened it and
it created a new copy in the cache.

Conclusion:
1. MS changed the .one file format to probably the same kind of format
as the onepkg one. Meaning, embedded files are no longer stored as
separate files, but rather embedded into the actual .one file. This
explains why my test section increased in size so much (an increase
actually equal to the file size of the embedded file). It also explains
how the file in the cache could appear from "nowhere".
2. OneNote still needs the _onefiles cache folder. If a file is deleted
from there while a section/notebook is open, then ON won't do anything
when you click on the file in ON.
3. If you delete files from the _onefiles cache folder, then they will
be restored automatically when you reopen the section/notebook. As
mentioned before, I deleted my entire onefiles folder. I then tried to
use an embedded file in an open notebook, and nothing happened. I closed
that notebook and reopened it. All the files embedded in that notebook
reappeared in the _onefiles folder. In addition, the icons in the pages
worked again.

So if you wipe out the _onefiles folder, simply close and reopen all
your notebooks and ON will restore its contents from the .one files.

I personally think this works much better than before. The files are now
truly embedded and users can't just modify the files per se, which could
wreck havoc to ON's syncing mechanism. In addition, I am pretty sure
that Windows XP and Vista Offline File mechanisms could create trouble
as well if the files are separate.

The only thing I don't like is that the files aren't removed from the
cache automatically when you close a section/notebook. I tried also
optimizing my notebooks, but that didn't work either.

I'll follow up with MS on this and see if I can't get confirmation from
them that this is how it works now. I'll also ask about the removal of
files from the cache.

Patrick Schmid
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Patrick said:
It actually works fairly well :)
Here is what I did:

Thanks so much for your report!!
Great that you tested things.

SET PANIC OFF.
Spoke way too soon [siiiiiigh]

After short testing with the cache folder removed I can share your
conclusions.
I personally think this works much better than before. The files are
now truly embedded and users can't just modify the files per se,
which could wreck havoc to ON's syncing mechanism.

I fully agree.
The only thing I don't like is that the files aren't removed from
the
cache automatically when you close a section/notebook. I tried also
optimizing my notebooks, but that didn't work either.

Yes, they just stay there.
But I cannot see that there were duplicates piled up (as was Grant's
result and my impression)
Without deeper testing I just assume that the number filenames just
are names saved in the *.ONE files internally and therefore extracted
from there and put into the cache.

And without deeper testing I do not see why it might be bad that the
files stay in the cache when a notebook is *closed*. Wouldn't this
make opening the notebooks again make faster?

Different in the case of a section deleted.
Then the files associated with it should go away as some kind of
"garbage collection".

Please excuse me for my premature comments.
I'm really sorry for crying wolf :-( :-(

And I would delete some of my "way to soon" postings if this would be
possible.

Rainald
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Got some news from Microsoft on this:
On local disks and network shares, embedded files are now stored inside
the .one files. However, they are stored separately in the cache and on
sharepoint, for file size and efficiency reasons.

It seems that MS considers those files in the cache just as garbage that
collects, similar to how it was in B2. So the dupes collecting over time
seem to become a permanent thing. However, the recommendation is to
never delete any files from there. Apparently, there are situations
where they won't be recreated when you close/reopen a notebook
(specifically if cache and/or sections are optimized).

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

Patrick said:
It actually works fairly well :)
Here is what I did:

Thanks so much for your report!!
Great that you tested things.

SET PANIC OFF.
Spoke way too soon [siiiiiigh]

After short testing with the cache folder removed I can share your
conclusions.
I personally think this works much better than before. The files are
now truly embedded and users can't just modify the files per se,
which could wreck havoc to ON's syncing mechanism.

I fully agree.
The only thing I don't like is that the files aren't removed from
the
cache automatically when you close a section/notebook. I tried also
optimizing my notebooks, but that didn't work either.

Yes, they just stay there.
But I cannot see that there were duplicates piled up (as was Grant's
result and my impression)
Without deeper testing I just assume that the number filenames just
are names saved in the *.ONE files internally and therefore extracted
from there and put into the cache.

And without deeper testing I do not see why it might be bad that the
files stay in the cache when a notebook is *closed*. Wouldn't this
make opening the notebooks again make faster?

Different in the case of a section deleted.
Then the files associated with it should go away as some kind of
"garbage collection".

Please excuse me for my premature comments.
I'm really sorry for crying wolf :-( :-(

And I would delete some of my "way to soon" postings if this would be
possible.

Rainald
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Regarding those files in the cache:
- ON does do some automatic garbage collection there. But only on very
deep idle (e.g. could take a few days of inactivity)
- Tools, Options, Save, Optimize All Files now forces such a garbage
collection
- Unless you copy pages or edit files, you shouldn't see any dupes in
the _onefiles folder. If you do, let me know right away please.
All of you probably have dupes in there from B2. So please be sure to
first rule out that a particular duplicate in there was not created by
B2!

All of this sounds to me like embedded files won't be a problem issue
anymore in B2TR :)

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

Got some news from Microsoft on this:
On local disks and network shares, embedded files are now stored inside
the .one files. However, they are stored separately in the cache and on
sharepoint, for file size and efficiency reasons.

It seems that MS considers those files in the cache just as garbage that
collects, similar to how it was in B2. So the dupes collecting over time
seem to become a permanent thing. However, the recommendation is to
never delete any files from there. Apparently, there are situations
where they won't be recreated when you close/reopen a notebook
(specifically if cache and/or sections are optimized).

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

Patrick said:
It actually works fairly well :)
Here is what I did:

Thanks so much for your report!!
Great that you tested things.

SET PANIC OFF.
Spoke way too soon [siiiiiigh]

After short testing with the cache folder removed I can share your
conclusions.
I personally think this works much better than before. The files are
now truly embedded and users can't just modify the files per se,
which could wreck havoc to ON's syncing mechanism.

I fully agree.
The only thing I don't like is that the files aren't removed from
the
cache automatically when you close a section/notebook. I tried also
optimizing my notebooks, but that didn't work either.

Yes, they just stay there.
But I cannot see that there were duplicates piled up (as was Grant's
result and my impression)
Without deeper testing I just assume that the number filenames just
are names saved in the *.ONE files internally and therefore extracted
from there and put into the cache.

And without deeper testing I do not see why it might be bad that the
files stay in the cache when a notebook is *closed*. Wouldn't this
make opening the notebooks again make faster?

Different in the case of a section deleted.
Then the files associated with it should go away as some kind of
"garbage collection".

Please excuse me for my premature comments.
I'm really sorry for crying wolf :-( :-(

And I would delete some of my "way to soon" postings if this would be
possible.

Rainald
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top