ON 2007 Beta 2-How to manually move or rename notebooks?

[OneDave]

I'm running ON 2007 Beta 2 on a desktop and on a tablet. Each has the Files
| Sync | Work Offline selection active (shutting off auto sync).

I've seen other posts stating that notebooks can be moved manually by moving
the .ONE files between computers. If I move the associated _ONEFILES folder
into the same destination directory on the other computer, will that
computer's ON see the notebook with its embedded audio files?

A related question: If I am using ON 2007 stand-alone and I rename a section
using ON, will ON rename the associated files within the _ONEFILES folder?
Likewise, what does ON do vis associated files and folders if I use ON to
rename a section group or notebook?

 

[Grant Robertson]

I've seen other posts stating that notebooks can be moved manually by moving
the .ONE files between computers. If I move the associated _ONEFILES folder
into the same destination directory on the other computer, will that
computer's ON see the notebook with its embedded audio files?

First, you must have read wrong. If you want to MOVE a NOTEBOOK you must
close the notebook on one machine then simply move the entire notebook
folder from one machine to the other using Windows Explorer. This will
move all the .one files as well as all the associated _onefile folders
with their audio files and copies of the icon-linked files, plus all the
table of contents files. I haven't done this from one machine to another
but I have done it from one drive to another and OneNote seemed to handle
the different pathnames properly. It just switched to using relative
pathnames and worked just fine.

I'm running ON 2007 Beta 2 on a desktop and on a tablet. Each has the Files
| Sync | Work Offline selection active (shutting off auto sync).

This concerns me. If you are storing your primary copies of your OneNote
files on each individual machine then setting this setting may just make
a mess. I am pretty sure this setting just forces OneNote to work out of
your cache instead of from the original files AND NOT UPDATE YOUR
ORIGINAL FILES. I am thinking it should only be used when you have your
files stored on a server and you want to tell OneNote that you aren't
connected to that server. Usually, it can just tell on its own.


It seems as if you are trying to make an end run around OneNote's file
synchronization system. I don't think that is such a good idea. You will
probably be much better off to store the primary copy of all your
notebooks on your desktop, then simply open those notebooks over the
network using your laptop. As long as you don't close those Notebooks on
the laptop then they will be synchronized when you reconnect.

If for some reason you want to have only certain notebooks on your laptop
and a completely separate set of notebooks on your desktop then what you
seem to be trying to do might make sense.

A related question: If I am using ON 2007 stand-alone and I rename a section
using ON, will ON rename the associated files within the _ONEFILES folder?
Likewise, what does ON do vis associated files and folders if I use ON to
rename a section group or notebook?

I have found that OneNote will automatically rename the
section_name_onefiles folder as well as update the links in the section
to point to the newly named folder. I was pretty impressed.

 

[OneDave]

Thanks for your reply, Grant.

I am indeed trying to end-run the automatic sync feature of the 2007 Beta
OneNote, but only temporarily. I have read posts about cache file problems,
backup file duplications, loss of audio file links, etc, as well as the
development team's acknowledgement of these (Beta) problems. To some extent,
I'd like to simply avoid the automatic "assistance" from 2007 Beta until its
operations are smoother and more reliable. Perhaps I could also benefit from
fewer CPU cycles being used and less disk space being 'wasted.' With ON2003,
I used a 3rd party sync program (BeInSync) to keep the files in both
computers' My Notebooks directories in sync. This worked very well, but if
ON 2007 will include this ability natively, I'm all for it--once it works
smoothly. Right now, I'm not even using BeInSync for ON stuff.

In synchronizing between computers, I might work on one specific section
file (.one) on my laptop, and then want to put it (and not the notebook's
other section files) onto the tablet computer. I assume I also need to move
some other files when I manually synchronize the .one section files. Are all
of these other files contained in the section's _onefile folder?

I also ask about this stuff because I would like to know the underlying
philosophy and details of how ON hooks various note features (like embedded
audio) into the XP file system and files. With ON 2003, it was very
straightforward. By adding new features to 2007, it's no longer is.
Inquiring minds would like to know...

How does ON2007 Beta work with files and directories? What aspects are
accessible by the user from within ON (like section renaming)? What aspects
are manipulatable from XP/explorer? What does a user dare not touch?

 

[Patrick Schmid]

I'm running ON 2007 Beta 2 on a desktop and on a tablet. Each has
the Files

This concerns me. If you are storing your primary copies of your OneNote
files on each individual machine then setting this setting may just make
a mess. I am pretty sure this setting just forces OneNote to work out of
your cache instead of from the original files AND NOT UPDATE YOUR
ORIGINAL FILES. I am thinking it should only be used when you have your
files stored on a server and you want to tell OneNote that you aren't
connected to that server. Usually, it can just tell on its own.

I agree 100%. Working with that setting is going to get you into huge
trouble sooner or later.

As Grant already said, move all your notebooks to the desktop, then open
them directly from there on both computers. The tablet will cache all
notebooks on it and you don't have to worry about syncing at all.
Please remember to sync your notebooks before you move any .one files!
The changes you have made since starting to work offline were probably
never synced to your original files. If you move the original file
without syncing first, those changes will not be in the file. Worse,
when you open OneNote again and go online, it will think that the file
was deleted and hence remove everything about it from the cache. So you
end up losing your changes forever.

Patrick Schmid

 

[Patrick Schmid]

You can't actually avoid it. ON always uses the sync mechanism, even if
all your .one files are local to the machine you are working on. When
you open a notebook, all its contents are copied into the big cache file
and all its embedded files (incl. audio) in the folder associated with
the cache. Every time you edit anything in ON, the changes first go into
the cache file and are then synced to your original .one files. This is
the default behavior and there is no way to get around it.
All you are doing by choosing to work offline is keeping all changes to
the cache only. Whatever changes you make are never written back to the
..one files probably. Simply put, there is no way around the ON 2007
sync feature and you are currently setting yourself up for some huge
disaster.
I would recommend to embrace the sync feature and just have one copy of
your .one files on your desktop while using the cached copy only on the
tablet.

Patrick Schmid

 

[OneDave]

Thank you very much for explaining this to me. I will let ON autosync and
stop messing with it! (Back up first, of course.) I do appreciate the
feature.

Is there somewhere I can read up on the details of the new ON design vis
files?

 

[OneDave]

Also, if I get my desktop's ON 2007 notebooks all in order, is there a way to
clean up my tablet so that the ON sync has a fresh start?

 

[Grant Robertson]

Also, if I get my desktop's ON 2007 notebooks all in order, is there a way to
clean up my tablet so that the ON sync has a fresh start?

First, uncheck that { File / Sync / Work Offline } menu item. This will
get the changes you have made on each machine back out of the cache on
each machine and into the primary files.

Let each sit with OneNote running for a while to make sure all that
decacheing is finished.

Close all the notebooks on both machines. This will delete the caches on
both machines and "disconnect" the notebook from OneNote so you can
safely move the notebook folders around.

Use Windows Explorer to move all the notebook folders to the desktop. Do
not attempt to reorganize them at all. Only move the whole notebook
folder as a unit. Do not attempt to move sections individually. Just get
all the main existing notebook folders somewhere on the desktop's hard
drive. Essentially, you could just move all the laptop's notebooks to the
same main folder where all your notebooks are currently stored on the
desktop. Note: you do not need to have them all under one parent folder.
It is just more convenient most of the time. Warning: if any of the
notebook folders from your laptop have the same name as any of the
notebook folders on your desktop then you do not want to just mix them
together. This will cause a mess. The safest thing to do is to create a
completely separate folder on your desktop to temporarily hold the
notebook folders from your laptop and put all the laptop's notebook
folders there.

Now that everything is on the desktop, open all the notebooks on the
desktop. Basically, you just choose { File / Open Notebook } and browse
to the notebook's folder. You just select it in the list and click the
[Open] button. Since the notebook folder is just a regular folder then
OneNote doesn't know to treat it as a "Notebook" until you do this.
Naturally, if you just double-click the notebook folder, OneNote doesn't
know the difference and will just browse into that folder.

Now use OneNote to reorganize all the notebooks. You can drag and drop
entire section groups or just sections or pages anywhere you want them.
OneNote will fix up all the links that may be on all the included pages.
Warning: If you try to move these files using Windows Explorer then there
is no way OneNote can know what is going on and it will loose track of
all the links.

If you ended up with duplicate sections or pages due to your attempt at
an end run then you will have to manually sort out which parts you want
from each page.

Once you have everything organized then close the notebooks that were
just temporary and use Windows Explorer to delete the folders and
whatever may be left in them. Just make sure you didn't miss anything
first.

Now, from your laptop, and within OneNote, browse over your network
connection to open the notebooks that are stored on the desktop. OneNote
will just create a cache file on your Laptop but won't actually copy the
original files to the laptop. You will not have direct access to the
files on your laptop. But then again, you will have more room left over
on your laptop's HDD.

If you think you will NEED direct access to the files on the laptop then
you should reverse the procedure here so that the original files are on
your laptop and the cache-only version is on your desktop. It is even
possible to have some of the original notebooks on one machine and some
on another and then open them over the network from the other machine.
But I would only recommend this for an expert who can keep track of this
kind of convoluted system and wouldn't have needed these instructions in
the first place. You can also only do this for whole notebooks, not for
individual sections. If you really need the original files of one section
file and its associated audio files etc. available for direct access on
the laptop then you should move that section to a completely separate
notebook.

Now use

 

[Rainald Taesler]

Grant Robertson shared these words of wisdom:


[...] move the

entire notebook folder from one machine to the other using
Windows Explorer.
...
I haven't done this from one machine to another but I
have done it from one drive to another and OneNote seemed to
handle the different pathnames properly. It just switched to
using relative pathnames and worked just fine.

According to my experiments the pathnames do not matter.
If the whole of notebook is copied/moved to another machine it can
just be opened there.
AFAICS the pathnames set in the "Options" dialog are held on each
machine separately.

This concerns me. If you are storing your primary copies of your
OneNote files on each individual machine then setting this
setting may just make a mess.

One cannot repeat this often enough and loud enough!
The synching concept AFAICS is unique so far and it will take quite
some time until the users will get used to it.

Rainald

 

[Rainald Taesler]

OneDave shared these words of wisdom:

[...] With ON2003, I used a 3rd party sync
program (BeInSync) to keep the files in both computers' My
Notebooks directories in sync.

These were the old days. This was traditional synchronisation of
*complete*files* - with all of the disadvantages.
This kind of concept is not sufficient any more (better say has not
been sufficient for many long years) in the days of work being done on
different machines.
For that one cannot work on a file-by-file basis. It needs replication
of the files' *content*, crosswise.
Each database specialist might tell a lot on this topic.
take Outlook for an example: It will sooner or later come to a real
mess if contacts an calendar data are worked with on different machine
not backed by an Exchange server or the like.
And copying the whole PST(s) to the notebook when leaving the office
and doing the same vice versa when back, is quite something.
Simply not workable.

The synching software for keeping Outlook on a PC and a PocketPC shows
what's needing if more than just one computer is involved.

This worked very well, but if ON 2007 will include this ability
natively, I'm all for it--once it works smoothly.

ON 2007 does not do *THAT*.
It does not copy files from one computer to another one.
It does do something totally different.
It works on cached data and simply keeps the data automatically à jour
on two computer as long as they are connected.
When disconnected and then re-connected the changed data inside the
files are replicated both ways.

Right now, I'm not even using BeInSync for ON stuff.

Don't do that. Give up this concept.
Do things the way ON requires it:
Keep the notebook files just on *one* computer. Don't store the safe
stuff in two location.
You'll end up with a mess sooner or later.
You will not even need a "One Note" folder on the second computer.

section file (.one) on my laptop, and then want to put it (and
not the notebook's other section files) onto the tablet
computer. I assume I also need to move some other files when I
manually synchronize the .one section files. Are all of these
other files contained in the section's _onefile folder?

As said above (and be the others):
Do not copy or move any of the ON files to the tablet.
Leave the "One Note .." directory in "My Documents" just empty (you
may use it for *temporarily* storing new notebooks created on the
tablet or notebooks which are for *exclusive* usage on the tablet (an
extraordinary scenario).

Rainald

 

[Rainald Taesler]

OneDave shared these words of wisdom:

Also, if I get my desktop's ON 2007 notebooks all in order, is
there a way to clean up my tablet so that the ON sync has a
fresh start? --

For sure!
Not complicated.

One would break it down to the details, f.e. do you have any notebooks
on the tablet which are different from the ones on the desktop?
In case not:
- *close* all open notebooks on the tablet;
- remove everything in the tablet's "One ..." folder in "My Documents"
(you may keep an external backup in case of a case)
- then on the tablet open the notebooks from the desktop's shared
"OneNote.. " folder,. one by one.

That's basically all.

Rainald
P.S. And pls do not forget to tell your "BeInSync" to *exclude* the
"OneNote .." folder from synching.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

If you think you will NEED direct access to the files on the laptop
then

you should reverse the procedure here so that the original files are on
your laptop and the cache-only version is on your desktop. It is even
possible to have some of the original notebooks on one machine and some
on another and then open them over the network from the other machine.
But I would only recommend this for an expert who can keep track of this
kind of convoluted system and wouldn't have needed these instructions in
the first place. You can also only do this for whole notebooks, not for
individual sections. If you really need the original files of one section
file and its associated audio files etc. available for direct access on
the laptop then you should move that section to a completely separate
notebook.

You really should never feel the need for direct access on your tablet.
If you have to do major reorganization work that cannot performed from
within ON, do it on the desktop. Other than that, ON should give you the
full notebooks and all embedded files (incl. audio) on your tablet and
you really never should feel the need for direct access to the .one
files.

Patrick Schmid

 

[OneDave]

Thank you both, Grant & Patrick! I especially appreciate your step-by-step
instructions. I'll consolidate everything onto my desktop machine and then
let ON 2007 work its magic without my 'help.'

I've never opened any notebooks from one computer with the other using ON.
I got to this point because I converted from ON 2003 when I had duplicate
files on each machine. Computer-level file duplication with 3rd party file
synchronization worked fine with 2003, since I never edited two sections at
the same time. (I de-activated this sync method before I upgraded to 2007
Beta, lucky me!) Therefore, I do indeed have notebooks, sections, etc., with
the same file names. (Possibly this is a 2003-to-2007 upgrade and data
migration issue for future users.) I'll sort out the file content on each
machine as you instructed and get everything down to residing on just the
desktop.

Earlier today (after making backups), I de-activated the ON Work Offline
status of both computers. I left them running with ON open for hours.
However, I don't think they communed, since one computer's ON never knew
about the other. In fact, when I looked under the File | Sync menu, all of
the sync options were greyed out (except Work Offline). I assume that this
means ON did not think it was trying to sync across any computers.

I assume that ON 2007 has some sort of built-in peer-to-peer type feature to
allow it to see a file on another computer? Is this the XP file sharing
feature? After I get the ON content on my desktop straightened out, do I
need to take other actions (other than File | Open Notebook) to enable the
sharing between computers?

Lastly, after I get my content consolidated onto the desktop computer, and
before I hook up the share with the tablet computer, I'd like to get rid of
any and all ON data files on the tablet. What should I move off of the
tablet to do this? My ON cache folder on the desktop has 8GB in it,
including presumptive duplicates I can clean up later. I can't afford that
overhead on the tablet...

Thanks again for the great help! I love OneNote & use it for hours every day.
Dave

 

[OneDave]

What is AFAICS?
--
Thanks
Dave

Grant Robertson shared these words of wisdom:


[...] move the

entire notebook folder from one machine to the other using
Windows Explorer.
...
I haven't done this from one machine to another but I
have done it from one drive to another and OneNote seemed to
handle the different pathnames properly. It just switched to
using relative pathnames and worked just fine.

According to my experiments the pathnames do not matter.
If the whole of notebook is copied/moved to another machine it can
just be opened there.
AFAICS the pathnames set in the "Options" dialog are held on each
machine separately.

This concerns me. If you are storing your primary copies of your
OneNote files on each individual machine then setting this
setting may just make a mess.

One cannot repeat this often enough and loud enough!
The synching concept AFAICS is unique so far and it will take quite
some time until the users will get used to it.

Rainald

 

[Patrick Schmid]

I assume that ON 2007 has some sort of built-in peer-to-peer type
feature to

allow it to see a file on another computer? Is this the XP file sharing
feature? After I get the ON content on my desktop straightened out, do I
need to take other actions (other than File | Open Notebook) to enable the
sharing between computers?

ON doesn't have anything built-in. It uses basic XP file sharing. To get
some idea on how to use this, open Help and Support (Start menu of
Windows) and type sharing in the search box. Read the article "Sharing
files and folders overview".
Just one thing: do NOT use Windows Offline Files. This feature is not
needed with ON 2007 and actually is a guarantee for havoc if used.

Lastly, after I get my content consolidated onto the desktop computer, and
before I hook up the share with the tablet computer, I'd like to get rid of
any and all ON data files on the tablet. What should I move off of the
tablet to do this? My ON cache folder on the desktop has 8GB in it,
including presumptive duplicates I can clean up later. I can't afford that
overhead on the tablet...

Everything in your OneNote Notebooks folder. Once you have closed all
notebooks on your tablet and closed ON, you can delete whatever is left
of the cache on the tablet. Run a file compression (Tools, Options,
Others) on your desktop before opening the notebooks on your tablet.
Then open the notebooks on your tablet. You might end up with 8 GB of
cache though. The cache is about as big as all your notebooks together.
This means currently you need twice the space on your tablet, as you
have the original files and the cached copy on it. Once you get the
originals to the desktop, the tablet will be down to only one copy of
everything. So it's 8 GB once instead of twice as it currently probably
is the case.

Patrick Schmid

 

[Rainald Taesler]

OneDave shared these words of wisdom:

What is AFAICS?

Just one of the good old akronyms used in e-communications since the
days of the telex ;-)

AFAICS = As far as I can see
AFAIK = As far as I know.

Rainald

 

[OneDave]

Thanks, I'll do this during the week & let you guys know...
Dave

 

[Grant Robertson]

You really should never feel the need for direct access on your tablet.
If you have to do major reorganization work that cannot performed from
within ON, do it on the desktop. Other than that, ON should give you the
full notebooks and all embedded files (incl. audio) on your tablet and
you really never should feel the need for direct access to the .one
files.

I completely agree. But some people always feel the need for that little
bit of extra safety. They may need to make certain that they can get to a
..ONE file even if the cache gets corrupted. And they may want to do that
when they aren't at home using the desktop.

 

[Grant Robertson]

According to my experiments the pathnames do not matter.
If the whole of notebook is copied/moved to another machine it can
just be opened there.
AFAICS the pathnames set in the "Options" dialog are held on each
machine separately.

Those aren't the pathnames I was refering to. Actually those are just
"paths". A pathname is a file name including the path. But there are
those who will dicker, and I will ignore them.

Anyway, I was referring to the pathnames stored in links to files that
have been created using icon-links and to audio files created by OneNote.
Anything stored in a section_name_onefiles folder. OneNote handles the
new location properly and doesnt't try to open a file from the old
location.

 

[Rainald Taesler]

Thanks a lot for clarification.
This is congruent with my my findings.

Rainald


Grant Robertson shared these words of wisdom: