Outlook CC not sending

R

RDavid

Hello,

Using OL2003, I'm finding that often, but not always, when I cc an address,
the cc copy of the email just never gets delivered! I use a pop3 server so
it *should* be working but it just doesn't. When I look at the .LOG it
shows the email being sent but not the CC.

Should the CC be showing as a separate email in the log? Is there a way to
unmask the RCPT details in the log to see that the CC is actually being
sent?

Is this a known problem? Any suggestions on how I can troubleshoot an email
that says it's sent and ends up in bit-heaven???

Any help would be a ton more than I know now...

Thanks,
Rich
 
V

Vanguard

RDavid said:
Hello,

Using OL2003, I'm finding that often, but not always, when I cc an
address,
the cc copy of the email just never gets delivered! I use a pop3
server so
it *should* be working but it just doesn't. When I look at the .LOG
it
shows the email being sent but not the CC.

Should the CC be showing as a separate email in the log? Is there a
way to
unmask the RCPT details in the log to see that the CC is actually
being
sent?

Is this a known problem? Any suggestions on how I can troubleshoot an
email
that says it's sent and ends up in bit-heaven???

Any help would be a ton more than I know now...

Thanks,
Rich
Click to expand...


You should see a RCPT-TO command for each recipient of your message.
For an example case where one recipient was in the To header and one
recipient was in the Cc header, your logfile should contain:

....
SMTP: [tx] MAIL FROM: <your_EmailAddress>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] RCPT TO: <To_EmailAddress}>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] RCPT TO: <Cc_EmailAddress>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] DATA
....

The SMTP server doens't give a gnat's fart about where you specified the
recipient's e-mail address. Might have been in the To header, maybe in
the Cc header, or maybe in the Bcc header. Those fields (with the
exception of Bcc which the e-mail should NOT include) are part of the
*data* that gets sent within the DATA command. That is, they are NOT
used for routing the message. Those "headers" are part of the message
(i.e., there is no separation between headers and the body of the
message since they are both part of the data of the message). They are
only used to tell the e-mail client what e-mail addresses to compile in
its list of RCPT-TO commands that the e-mail client will send to the
SMTP server. If you had a 5 recipients in the To header, 3 in the Cc
header, and 4 in the Bcc header, there is still only one DATA command
for that message but it should be preceded by 12 RCPT-TO commands. For
1 message with X recipients, you should see X RCPT-TO commands followed
by 1 DATA command.

For further information on how SMTP works, read RFC 2821, "Simple Mail
Transfer Protocol" (ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt). For
more information on the "headers" that are part of the data of an
e-mail, read RFC 2822, "Internet Message Format"
(ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2822.txt).
 
R

RDavid

Thank you Vanguard for your reply,

I looked over the last log I had and consistently I only have a single RCPT
TO for my emails, regardless of CC address. I'm going to be logging and
doing a bunch of testing today but cannot help but question what, if
anything, I can do if Outlook decides not to be cooperative. I mean, is any
of this configurable? And it also appears to be, from anecdotal evidence so
far, sporadic.

Could this be a bug lurking in the background of Outlook??

Your help is appreciated,
Rich



Vanguard said:
RDavid said:
Hello,

Using OL2003, I'm finding that often, but not always, when I cc an
address,
the cc copy of the email just never gets delivered! I use a pop3
server so
it *should* be working but it just doesn't. When I look at the .LOG
it
shows the email being sent but not the CC.

Should the CC be showing as a separate email in the log? Is there a
way to
unmask the RCPT details in the log to see that the CC is actually
being
sent?

Is this a known problem? Any suggestions on how I can troubleshoot an
email
that says it's sent and ends up in bit-heaven???

Any help would be a ton more than I know now...

Thanks,
Rich
Click to expand...


You should see a RCPT-TO command for each recipient of your message.
For an example case where one recipient was in the To header and one
recipient was in the Cc header, your logfile should contain:

...
SMTP: [tx] MAIL FROM: <your_EmailAddress>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] RCPT TO: <To_EmailAddress}>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] RCPT TO: <Cc_EmailAddress>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] DATA
...

The SMTP server doens't give a gnat's fart about where you specified the
recipient's e-mail address. Might have been in the To header, maybe in
the Cc header, or maybe in the Bcc header. Those fields (with the
exception of Bcc which the e-mail should NOT include) are part of the
*data* that gets sent within the DATA command. That is, they are NOT
used for routing the message. Those "headers" are part of the message
(i.e., there is no separation between headers and the body of the
message since they are both part of the data of the message). They are
only used to tell the e-mail client what e-mail addresses to compile in
its list of RCPT-TO commands that the e-mail client will send to the
SMTP server. If you had a 5 recipients in the To header, 3 in the Cc
header, and 4 in the Bcc header, there is still only one DATA command
for that message but it should be preceded by 12 RCPT-TO commands. For
1 message with X recipients, you should see X RCPT-TO commands followed
by 1 DATA command.

For further information on how SMTP works, read RFC 2821, "Simple Mail
Transfer Protocol" (ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt). For
more information on the "headers" that are part of the data of an
e-mail, read RFC 2822, "Internet Message Format"
(ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2822.txt).

--
_________________________________________________________________
******** Post replies to newsgroup - Share with others ********
Email: lh_811newsATyahooDOTcom and append "=NEWS=" to Subject.
_________________________________________________________________
Click to expand...
 
R

RDavid

Vanguard,

A little more info on Outlook and this issue.

If I send an email to myself and add the same email address to the CC box,
Outlook will not send two emails. There is, in the log file, only a single
RCPT TO. This would lead me to assume that Outlook considers the TO and CC
to the same address to be either a mistake that shouldn't have been done
(and does not send one of the emails) or that it just doesn't complete the
CC because the CC matches the TO. Either way I think this leaves room for
an evaluation that, under the right circumstances, could lead to a failure
to process the CC. Any thoughts?

Rich


Vanguard said:
RDavid said:
Hello,

Using OL2003, I'm finding that often, but not always, when I cc an
address,
the cc copy of the email just never gets delivered! I use a pop3
server so
it *should* be working but it just doesn't. When I look at the .LOG
it
shows the email being sent but not the CC.

Should the CC be showing as a separate email in the log? Is there a
way to
unmask the RCPT details in the log to see that the CC is actually
being
sent?

Is this a known problem? Any suggestions on how I can troubleshoot an
email
that says it's sent and ends up in bit-heaven???

Any help would be a ton more than I know now...

Thanks,
Rich
Click to expand...


You should see a RCPT-TO command for each recipient of your message.
For an example case where one recipient was in the To header and one
recipient was in the Cc header, your logfile should contain:

...
SMTP: [tx] MAIL FROM: <your_EmailAddress>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] RCPT TO: <To_EmailAddress}>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] RCPT TO: <Cc_EmailAddress>
SMTP: <rx> 250 ok
SMTP: [tx] DATA
...

The SMTP server doens't give a gnat's fart about where you specified the
recipient's e-mail address. Might have been in the To header, maybe in
the Cc header, or maybe in the Bcc header. Those fields (with the
exception of Bcc which the e-mail should NOT include) are part of the
*data* that gets sent within the DATA command. That is, they are NOT
used for routing the message. Those "headers" are part of the message
(i.e., there is no separation between headers and the body of the
message since they are both part of the data of the message). They are
only used to tell the e-mail client what e-mail addresses to compile in
its list of RCPT-TO commands that the e-mail client will send to the
SMTP server. If you had a 5 recipients in the To header, 3 in the Cc
header, and 4 in the Bcc header, there is still only one DATA command
for that message but it should be preceded by 12 RCPT-TO commands. For
1 message with X recipients, you should see X RCPT-TO commands followed
by 1 DATA command.

For further information on how SMTP works, read RFC 2821, "Simple Mail
Transfer Protocol" (ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt). For
more information on the "headers" that are part of the data of an
e-mail, read RFC 2822, "Internet Message Format"
(ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2822.txt).

--
_________________________________________________________________
******** Post replies to newsgroup - Share with others ********
Email: lh_811newsATyahooDOTcom and append "=NEWS=" to Subject.
_________________________________________________________________
Click to expand...
 
V

Vanguard

RDavid said:
Vanguard,

A little more info on Outlook and this issue.

If I send an email to myself and add the same email address to the CC
box,
Outlook will not send two emails. There is, in the log file, only a
single
RCPT TO. This would lead me to assume that Outlook considers the TO
and CC
to the same address to be either a mistake that shouldn't have been
done
(and does not send one of the emails) or that it just doesn't complete
the
CC because the CC matches the TO. Either way I think this leaves room
for
an evaluation that, under the right circumstances, could lead to a
failure
to process the CC. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


As I mentioned, the list of RCPT-TO commands sent to the SMTP server are
what dictate who is the recipient of your message. This list is an
aggregate of the To, Cc, and Bcc fields in which you specify the
recipient e-mail addresses. There is no differentiation in the RCPT-TO
list regarding in which header a recipient was specified; i.e., the
RCPT-TO has no reference if the recipient was in the To, Cc, or Bcc
field. So the RCPT-TO is a flat list of recipients. Maybe Outlook is
removing duplicated recipients. I don't remember ever seeing an e-mail
account that has an option to select how many copies of a message that a
recipient will enter. Why send multiple copies of the same message to
the same recipient? So it would be no surprise to me that Outlook
removes duplicate recipients in the RCPT-TO list that it compiles and
sends to the SMTP server.

What happens when you send yourself a test email where you specify one
of your accounts in the To header and a DIFFERENT e-mail account of
yours in the Cc header? If you don't have a second account, well,
everyone knows about the Hotmail and Yahoo freebie accounts so use those
as your one or two test accounts for receiving your test e-mail.
 
R

RDavid

Thanks for the reply.

I appreciate the possibility that Outlook is "smart" enough not to duplicate
an email when the TO and CC are the same. I don't agree with it but I can
appreciate it. I think that if there is some evaluation going on there then
there is a possibility of something going wrong under unique conditions
(which I have not yet figured out).

The RCPT TO in the log certainly does appear as many times as there are
unique email addresses. I put two emails in the TO which were different and
two in the CC which were different and there was a total of four RCPT TO's
in the log. So that much appears to be fine.

I guess I'm just going to have to keep trying things to see if I can spot a
pattern. There's really no way to get Microsoft involved on this as they
would ask for "proof" of the problem and I can't provide any. Yet.

Thanks again,
Rich
 
J

Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]

If you want to see the actual addresses in the logs, create the DWORD
registry value "NoAddrsInLogs" in
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Office\11.0\Outlook and set it to 0. We don't put
the actual addresses in the logs by default so that people can safely post
them without revealing personal information.
 
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