Outlook Express Designers

D

D. Spencer Hines

Are any of the OE designers still around, perhaps as consultants to
Microsoft?

Or retirees...

Bring those guys and gals back...

Pay them well...

Give them respect...

And power...

So they can...

Kick the people who have so poorly designed WLM and Outlook in their rear
ends and tell them how to develop a first-class email/newsreader -- with
additional bells, whistles and dog and pony shows -- as appropriate.

OR -- if those folks have been fired or laid off...

Train their replacements in how to make the sort of software Bill Gates was
proud of.
 
V

VanguardLH

D. Spencer Hines said:
Are any of the OE designers still around, perhaps as consultants to
Microsoft?

Or retirees...

Bring those guys and gals back...

Pay them well...

Give them respect...

And power...

So they can...

Kick the people who have so poorly designed WLM and Outlook in their rear
ends and tell them how to develop a first-class email/newsreader -- with
additional bells, whistles and dog and pony shows -- as appropriate.

OR -- if those folks have been fired or laid off...

Train their replacements in how to make the sort of software Bill Gates was
proud of.

No one is forcing you to use an e-mail client that you don't want to
use. If you like how OE functions then continue using it.
 
D

D. Spencer Hines

We're being told that OE is being phased out and no future versions will
appear.

No OE7...

We're being told we HAVE to switch and that future MS OS's won't even work
with OE.
 
V

VanguardLH

D. Spencer Hines said:
We're being told that OE is being phased out and no future versions will
appear.

No OE7...

We're being told we HAVE to switch and that future MS OS's won't even work
with OE.

And your point is? That software that worked for you before will
suddenly stop working because its author no longer supports it? Well,
that was back in 2002 and lots of users are still using OE6.

I use 40tude Dialog as my newsreader. It's a dead product. It still
functions just fine and better than a myriad of other newsreaders that I
have trialed. The author abandoned Dialog back in February 2005. Still
works. Doesn't matter that it's no longer supported.

OE came bundled with pre-7 versions of IE. As of IE7, OE was no longer
bundled (because it has been long unsupported). Are you actually
planning on moving to newer versions of Windows? And you are moving why
(other than they are newer)? If Microsoft continues its trend of just
prettying up the NT-based kernel, are you sure that you'll be using a
Microsoft OS in another 6 years?

If you feel compelled to move to the newer versions of Windows, you can
still use VirtualPC or VMWare Server (both free) to run an older version
of Windows using your old version apps. I do this on several hosts.
Some of my family use it to run some really old software.

The only reason that OE is getting "phased out" is because newer Live
Hotmail accounts require the use of HTTP/Deltasync protocol instead of
the old HTTP/WebDAV protocol (both are Microsoft proprietary formats).
OE still works perfectly as a POP/IMAP/SMTP e-mail client. So unless
you feel compelled to use a freebie Hotmail account which demands you
use Microsoft proprietary protocols, OE continues to be a viable e-mail
client. If you must have OE and Hotmail then you could pay for a Plus
account. Or you could wait until sometime in February when Microsoft
says it plans on resuming POP/SMTP access to freebie Hotmail accounts
which means OE will work again.

If you will only use currently supported software, you're throwing away
a lot of good old stuff (and which was proven over time).
 
E

Earle Horton

VanguardLH said:
And your point is? That software that worked for you before will
suddenly stop working because its author no longer supports it? Well,
that was back in 2002 and lots of users are still using OE6.

I use 40tude Dialog as my newsreader. It's a dead product. It still
functions just fine and better than a myriad of other newsreaders that I
have trialed. The author abandoned Dialog back in February 2005. Still
works. Doesn't matter that it's no longer supported.

OE came bundled with pre-7 versions of IE. As of IE7, OE was no longer
bundled (because it has been long unsupported). Are you actually
planning on moving to newer versions of Windows? And you are moving why
(other than they are newer)? If Microsoft continues its trend of just
prettying up the NT-based kernel, are you sure that you'll be using a
Microsoft OS in another 6 years?

If you feel compelled to move to the newer versions of Windows, you can
still use VirtualPC or VMWare Server (both free) to run an older version
of Windows using your old version apps. I do this on several hosts.
Some of my family use it to run some really old software.

The only reason that OE is getting "phased out" is because newer Live
Hotmail accounts require the use of HTTP/Deltasync protocol instead of
the old HTTP/WebDAV protocol (both are Microsoft proprietary formats).
OE still works perfectly as a POP/IMAP/SMTP e-mail client. So unless
you feel compelled to use a freebie Hotmail account which demands you
use Microsoft proprietary protocols, OE continues to be a viable e-mail
client. If you must have OE and Hotmail then you could pay for a Plus
account. Or you could wait until sometime in February when Microsoft
says it plans on resuming POP/SMTP access to freebie Hotmail accounts
which means OE will work again.

If you will only use currently supported software, you're throwing away
a lot of good old stuff (and which was proven over time).

OE WebDAV is still working today for paid MSN accounts. That includes MSN
Premium dialup, MSN Premium byo Internet and partner accounts like Qwest.
MSFT says you need HTTP/Deltasync protocol to access their email now, but it
would be a simple matter to enable all accounts for HTTP/WebDAV, pop3/smtp
and IMAP. Just load the software on the server and throw a switch in a
closet somewhere. They're just trying to get people to buy into their
HTTP/Deltasync protocol because of "features" that they say they need. Well
if the economy is as bad as people say, the "need" for a client that can
manage gigafolders will disappear and HTTP/Deltasync protocol will be moot.

This Spencer person just seems interested in stirring up trouble in these
forums. He's a troll in other words. I would recommend shunning or
"plonking" him.

Earle
 
G

Gerry

Vanguard

True if the user stays with Windows XP but if they wish to move to move
to a later version of Windows your statement is not true!

--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
D

D. Spencer Hines

Correct...

And every user MUST eventually move to a later version of Windows [assuming
they stay MS] as the box breaks or can no longer function in a New
Cybernetic Environment.
 
D

D. Spencer Hines

You really should read your own messages before sending them and making a
fool of yourself.

You've answered your own questions below -- in your own message.

Vide infra pro interscriptibus.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

And your point is? That software that worked for you before will
suddenly stop working because its author no longer supports it? Well,
that was back in 2002 and lots of users are still using OE6.

Keep reading your own ruddy message....
I use 40tude Dialog as my newsreader. It's a dead product. It still
functions just fine and better than a myriad of other newsreaders that I
have trialed. The author abandoned Dialog back in February 2005. Still
works. Doesn't matter that it's no longer supported.

Irrelevant. Not in accordance with the facts of THIS case involving OE6, OL
and WLM.

The only reason that OE is getting "phased out" is because newer Live
Hotmail accounts require the use of HTTP/Deltasync protocol instead of
the old HTTP/WebDAV protocol (both are Microsoft proprietary formats).
OE still works perfectly as a POP/IMAP/SMTP e-mail client.

BINGO! You should have read that carefully and used your noodle.

A PAID MSN account, which is what I and thousands of others have, will no
longer be able to connect to an MSN HTTP account using OUTLOOK EXPRESS, so
we have been told. We will have to use WINDOWS LIVE MAIL or OUTLOOK -- so
we have been told.

Have you got that through your thick noodle now?

We were told this would happen in JANUARY 2009.

But since WLM is such a disaster and Microsoft is in turmoil right now they
have slipped the date to ---- Allah knows when.

BUT they could drop the hammer at any time -- NOW that WLM has "Gone
Final" -- on the bones of the crippled beta V14 -- which is unusable by any
intelligent consumer who demands better performance from his software.

<cut of more irrelevant material>

Prosecutio stultitiae est gravis vexatio, executio stultitiae coronat opus.

John 5:14
 
V

VanguardLH

Earle said:
OE WebDAV is still working today for paid MSN accounts. That includes MSN
Premium dialup, MSN Premium byo Internet and partner accounts like Qwest.

But if you pay for a Premium account, doesn't that also give you access
to POP/SMTP mail hosts at Hotmail? I remember reading that Live Hotmail
Plus (paid) returned POP/SMTP mail host access back in November 2007 but
that did not include MSN Hotmail Premium (paid). Bummer. I guess the
MSN Hotmail Premium accounts haven't yet been fully migrated to Live
Hotmail Plus accounts.
MSFT says you need HTTP/Deltasync protocol to access their email now, but it
would be a simple matter to enable all accounts for HTTP/WebDAV, pop3/smtp
and IMAP. Just load the software on the server and throw a switch in a
closet somewhere. They're just trying to get people to buy into their
HTTP/Deltasync protocol because of "features" that they say they need. Well
if the economy is as bad as people say, the "need" for a client that can
manage gigafolders will disappear and HTTP/Deltasync protocol will be moot.

From their claims regarding Deltasync, it seemed a moved mostly aimed at
Microsoft better handling the large volumes of e-mail but primarily for
those users that were saving thousands of e-mails consuming gigabytes of
storage. The performance savings on their server was insignificant for
low-volume users or those that never leave e-mails sitting on the server
(i.e., for users that prefer local client management of e-mails rather
than leaving them on the server). I don't have statistics on the type
of users at Hotmail, but I never leave old e-mails up on the server.
Their competition with Gmail to keep adding more and more storage into
the gigabyte range was meaningless to me since my e-mails don't
typically consume more than a couple hundred megabytes, even with
large-sized e-mails, plus I don't leave them on the server. Deltasync
wasn't appropriate to my use of Hotmail but then neither was having
gigabytes of disk quota.
This Spencer person just seems interested in stirring up trouble in these
forums. He's a troll in other words. I would recommend shunning or
"plonking" him.

He does whine a lot but then he also wants a better e-mail and
newsreader client (in wrong thinking that any combo product is going to
give him the best of both functionalities). Rather than ask questions
on how to improve his use of a particular product, and rather than trial
multiple products to figure out which comes closest to his match of
requirements, and because he obviously isn't going to hire a development
team to produce his own "does everything I want" version of an e-mail
client, he complains about what he can't get that someone else coded for
the masses. He likes to proselytize the shortcomings without really
addressing particular problems with possible solutions. It's possible
he is a troll based on the history of his posts. He's definitely
getting closer to my threshold for addition to my killfile.
 
V

VanguardLH

D. Spencer Hines said:
You really should read your own messages before sending them and making a
fool of yourself.

You've answered your own questions below -- in your own message.

Vide infra pro interscriptibus.
--
<signature - and which includes the reply>

You really should figure out just WHERE the signature belongs. By
adding the sigdash line BEFORE your reply then everything in your reply
becomes part of the signature. Capable newsreaders will strip
signatures from a reply. See, Dialog also strips your huge signature,
so nothing of your reply will appear in my reply. Learn to properly
position the signature at the end of your post. Regardless that you
prefer top- versus bottom-posting, signatures ALWAYS go at the end.
You've been told about this before. Obviously you are a lazy user. No
e-mail client will suffice to meet your requirements because no one
codes an e-mail client specifically for your sole use due to your
extreme laziness in properly using it.
 
V

VanguardLH

Gerry said:
Vanguard

True if the user stays with Windows XP but if they wish to move to move
to a later version of Windows your statement is not true!

Hines has never qualified why he thinks he needs to move to a different
version of the OS. Like many consumers, he seems entranced in the sales
mantra that "newer is better". Even if he does feel compelled to
migrate to a new version of the OS, or even switch to a different OS,
there are plenty of choices for e-mail clients within each. He just
likes to whine and stir the pot.
 
G

Gerry

Vanguard

I prefer Outlook Express to Windows Mail. I have not tried Windows Live
Mail.


--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
D

D. Spencer Hines

Please let us know what you think after you do.

Have you tried Outlook -- if so, what did you think?
 
E

Earle Horton

VanguardLH said:
Earle Horton wrote:
....

But if you pay for a Premium account, doesn't that also give you access
to POP/SMTP mail hosts at Hotmail? I remember reading that Live Hotmail
Plus (paid) returned POP/SMTP mail host access back in November 2007 but
that did not include MSN Hotmail Premium (paid). Bummer. I guess the
MSN Hotmail Premium accounts haven't yet been fully migrated to Live
Hotmail Plus accounts.
This is unclear at the moment. Some MSN Hotmail Premium subscribers report
getting pop3/smtp access in the MSN group but these have been partner
provider customers, such as in my case Qwest Choice DSL with MSN Premium aka
Qwest Broadband with MSFT. It is unclear if "regular" MSN Hotmail Premium
customers such as MSN Dialup or BYO Internet subscribers have pop3/smtp yet.
If not, these are able to use HTTP/WebDAV and thus OE if they want. It is
unlikely that MSFT will cut these customers off, since they pay a monthly
fee to use the service and many are long term subscribers with considerable
product loyalty.

Earle
 
G

Gerry

I have no inclination to try Windows Live Mail. I suspect it is less
acceptable than Windows Mail. I tried Outlook but it does not really
suit my requirements. I have Office 2000 so my software in this area is
rather dated.

--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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