Payroll -- Is it even possible?!

J

John... Visio MVP

Armen Stein said:
Hi John,

Interesting timing - I just posted a newsletter article called "Why
Fixed Bid Software Projects Are a Bad Idea". It's at
www.JStreetTech.com/Newsletters. There's a link to subscribe if you
want to receive more of my ruminations. :)

In the article I tell a similar story about a client that was lured
away by a low-ball fixed bid. I'll let you read the rest of the story
yourself, but I bet you won't be surprised by what happened.

Cheers,

Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com


Yes, I was following your discussion of that article in a thread on another
newsgroup. ;-)

John... Visio MVP
 
F

Fred

My day job is running smaller (<25 employee) companies in the USA.

Doing payroll in the USA, involves complying with a truckload of ever
changing govenmental rules, regulations and requirements, and numerous
requirements to send payroll related reports and money to the governments.
I consider the data and calculations part to be 5% of the job and the
government bureaucracy part to be 95%. I farm it out to an outside
service...... I wouldn't even do it in house with a commercial package much
less try write an ever changing application to keep up with the above
described truckload.

Maybe the situation is different / better in the countries that y'all live
in.
 
T

tina

hi Armen, just read your article. i found it interesting, and very well
written. i've just subscribed, and i'm looking forward to future editions -
thanks for sharing your time and expertise! tina
 
A

Armen Stein

hi Armen, just read your article. i found it interesting, and very well
written. i've just subscribed, and i'm looking forward to future editions -
thanks for sharing your time and expertise! tina

Thanks Tina! I enjoy taking some time away from my business and doing
some writing. My summer article is already in the works.

Cheers,

Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

Fred said:
My day job is running smaller (<25 employee) companies in the USA.

Doing payroll in the USA, involves complying with a truckload of ever
changing govenmental rules, regulations and requirements, and numerous
requirements to send payroll related reports and money to the governments.
I consider the data and calculations part to be 5% of the job and the
government bureaucracy part to be 95%. I farm it out to an outside
service...... I wouldn't even do it in house with a commercial package much
less try write an ever changing application to keep up with the above
described truckload.

Maybe the situation is different / better in the countries that y'all live
in.

Oh no. Payroll is just as ugly up here in Canada.

However I stand by my original comments. From what I can tell the
original poster is just looking for a time keeping program and not
payroll.

That said I'm working on a timekeeping program for a client. We're up
to 120 tables and 800K records in the main table. No payroll. Just
time keeping and invoicing.

Tony
 
F

Fred

Wow.

Sounds like you have Access pumping iron. Not just the 800k alone but that
it sounds like it represents 800K data entries / "transactions"

Fred
 
J

John W. Vinson

Wow.

Sounds like you have Access pumping iron. Not just the 800k alone but that
it sounds like it represents 800K data entries / "transactions"

Fred

Tony's apps are awesome, both in scope and execution. Tony, are you
contributing a chapter to the HHCIB book, "Designing a 120 table Access
application - how hard could it be?"

<g>
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

Fred said:
Sounds like you have Access pumping iron. Not just the 800k alone but that
it sounds like it represents 800K data entries / "transactions"

The BE is about 300 Mb in size. And yes those are 800K distinct
time keeping transactions for the past 8 years.. The company is in
the heavy industrial contracting business and in summer can have up to
800 employees. Despite the economic downturn this year one of their
divisions will have the busiest year ever. They also consume 25% of
the worlds supply of one particular product on behalf of their clients
in the Alberta oil sands and oil patch.

The time keeping transactions can consist of Regular Time, Overtime,
Double time, travel allowance, an hourly overhead charge, living
allowance, urine tests charged to the client, and so forth. There are
about 80 different payroll and a few material and equipment
categories.

Data captured, including the basics such as employee name, date and
RT, DT, OT, etc, also include area and activity in the industrial
plant, union pay rate agreement, pay grid classification (if the guy
is a foreman for the day he gets paid foreman for that day.) and a
whole bunch more.

The main data entry form is an unbound form which allows you to enter
up to three types of transactions per employee, that is RT, OT, DT,
etc. Then that form creates those transactions.

But that's not all. Some jobs have an overhead charge per hour added
to them. Other jobs have a daily living allowance. Other jobs have a
daily travel allowance if the guys have to drive more than an hour.
Other jobs have yet more quirks. So a single time keeping hourly
transaction can generate up to 5 or 6 individual records in the
transaction table.

But that's not all. One feature we have is the ability for the user
to click on a button, review the many transactions the just entered
time keeping transaction created and update/delete them individually
as required. Then they return to the form they just left and can keep
on going.

Then there's a form off to the side which shows the guys RT, OT and DT
hours for the week. So if he's on a 5x8 or 4x10 shift green means
he's in daily and weekly pre set standards, yellow and red mean out of
regular bounds. That is why is the guy getting paid 12 hours on RT
when it should be 10 on RT and 2 on OT. Or if more than 44 hours per
week then all time in excess of that is OT. With some DT for stat
holidays.

Guys belong on crews so at the end of the pay period the job
superintendents approve the biweekly hours reports.

The clients representatives daily sign off that the guys actually did
the work on site.

Umm, that's just a few of the highlights. I really need to do up 10
or 20 blog entries on the various techniques I used on that system to
make things user friendly and efficient.

I have to say that Jim, at the client and whom I've mentioned
occasionally in my blogs, is very good dealing with the users and
making sure that the forms make sense. But then I've also been
teaching him everything I know over the past ten years. <smile>

Tony
 
F

Fred

Cool.

Thanks for that info.

I don't envy you tackling something that big, but do for you living just 250
miles from the prettiest place on the planet.

Fred
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

Fred said:
I don't envy you tackling something that big, but do for you living just 250
miles from the prettiest place on the planet.

Umm, what would that be? Banff? Lake Louise? Jasper? Mount
Robson?

I happened to take several photos of Mount Robson without clouds
obscuring the view in February coming back from my grandmothers
funeral.

Tony
 
F

Fred

Hello Tony,

All of the above!!!! Have been on some backpacking trips there. I'd also
add these to the list:

- Moraine Lake
- The main trail in Mt. Robson park was such scenery overload that it
spoiled me for life. Tallest Canadian mountain, turquoise lakes, glaciers,
huge waterfall, huge altitude changes, termperate rainforest, glaciers
calving into lakes, meet people from all over the world.
 
W

Wayne-I-M

I think fred is talking the dolomites and the villages of trentino

:)

--
Wayne
Manchester, England.
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

Fred said:
All of the above!!!! Have been on some backpacking trips there. I'd also
add these to the list:

- Moraine Lake
- The main trail in Mt. Robson park was such scenery overload that it
spoiled me for life. Tallest Canadian mountain, turquoise lakes, glaciers,
huge waterfall, huge altitude changes, termperate rainforest, glaciers
calving into lakes, meet people from all over the world.

I've driven through Jasper and Banff so many times on my way to B.C..
Maybe 30 or 40 times. I do make the occasional stop to do some
sightseeing but you've likely seen a lot more than I have.

Tony
 
F

Fred

'fraid I'll need some geography lessosn before I can communicate on Wayne's
level. :)

Tony,

Moraine lake you can see by car and is worth the short detour to see it.

If you ever have a backpack and a few days the trail that follows the
river/lakes that wraps around the west side and then north side of Mt. Robson
is the one I described above and is incredible.

Being a Chicago area flatlander I can only be jealous.
 

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