Problem seeing some characters when sending email to Outlook client

F

fniles

Using VB6, I am sending an HTML email using SMTP.
I am having a problem when sending some characters (like a bullet
point that looks like an arrow) thru email that's received in
Outlook.
The weird thing is some Outlook client can see the arrow fine, some
can not.
My Outlook 2003 used to be able to see the arrow ok, but now it
doesn't.
Some Outlook 2007 can see it ok, some can't.
I can see the arrow fine in Gmail.

This is the character that we are having a problem with:
â–º 
That arrow character becomes this in some of the Outlook client:
– 

Thank you for your help.

This is my code:
Set poSendMail = New clsSendMail
poSendMail.SMTPHost = "a.com"
poSendMail.UserName = "(e-mail address removed)"
poSendMail.Password = "mypwd"
poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True
poSendMail.delimiter = ";"
poSendMail.AsHTML = True
poSendMail.From = "(e-mail address removed)"
poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "a"
poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "fiefie"
poSendMail.Recipient = "(e-mail address removed);[email protected]"
poSendMail.Subject = "test"
poSendMail.Message = sEmail -> this contains HTML code below
poSendMail.Send
Set poSendMail = Nothing


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:eek: =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" xmlns:w =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:word" xmlns:ns0 =
"http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Format"><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18928"><!--[if !mso]>
<STYLE>v\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
o\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
w\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
..shape {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
</STYLE>
<![endif]-->
<STYLE>@font-face {
font-family: Trebuchet MS;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Arial Rounded MT Bold;
}
@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in
1.25in; }
P.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
LI.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
A:link {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
A:visited {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
P {
FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto
}
SPAN.EmailStyle20 {
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; mso-style-type: personal-reply
}
DIV.Section1 {
page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY lang=EN-US link=blue vLink=blue>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"
class=MsoNormalTable
border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%">
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
PADDING-TOP: 0in"
colSpan=3>
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"
class=MsoNormalTable
border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%">
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH:
80%; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"
width="80%" colSpan=2>
<TABLE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; WIDTH: 19%; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; BACKGROUND: red; BORDER-
TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none"
class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0
width="19%" bgColor=red>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #111111 1pt inset; BORDER-LEFT:
#111111 1pt inset; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; WIDTH:
100%; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #111111 1pt inset; BORDER-RIGHT:
#111111 1pt inset; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
width="100%">
<P class=MsoNormal><A name=top></A><EM><B><I><FONT
color=white
size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: white; FONT-SIZE:
10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Not
to be outside
a</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><o:p></o:p></P></TD></
TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT
size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><B><FONT
face="Trebuchet MS"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'; FONT-WEIGHT:
bold"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></B></P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal
align=center><B><FONT
size=5 face="Trebuchet MS"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'; FONT-SIZE: 18pt; FONT-
WEIGHT: bold">a
Solutions:&nbsp;October&nbsp;14,
2010</SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></B></P></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-
TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
width=21>
<P class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;</P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH:
80%; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"
width="80%">
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><A
name=thetop><FONT
size=3 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Rounded MT Bold'; FONT-SIZE:
12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT></A><IMG
border=0 hspace=0 alt=""
src=cid:alogo.JPG><o:p></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH:
20%; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"
width="20%">
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<TD
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-
TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
width=21>
<P class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;</P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH:
200%; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"
width="200%" colSpan=2>
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"
class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0
width="100%">
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; WIDTH:
50%; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
vAlign=top width="50%">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT color=#ffa620 size=3
face="Trebuchet MS"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS'; COLOR: #ffa620;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">a
Information</SPAN></FONT></B>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT:
0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"
vAlign=top>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=blue size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: blue; FONT-
SIZE: 10pt">â–º&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT:
0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"
vAlign=top>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=blue size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: blue; FONT-
SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="#347114442_Customers">1.&nbsp;Best Rank
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TD></TR></BODY></HTML>
 
J

Jeff Johnson

Using VB6, I am sending an HTML email using SMTP.
I am having a problem when sending some characters (like a bullet
point that looks like an arrow) thru email that's received in
Outlook.
Click to expand...

It's all about the fonts. If the user's font has a glyph for that code
point, then he'll see the character. If not, he won't*. It's not something
you have control over. Your best bet is to use an image for things like
this.



*Or, to put it a different way, "Welcome to the Internet."
 
F

fniles

Thank you for your reply.
If the user's font has a glyph for that code point, then he'll see the character
Click to expand...
What did you mean by glyph ?
How can I check if the user's font has a glyph for that code point or
not ?
 
T

Tony Toews

Thank you for your reply.

What did you mean by glyph ?
How can I check if the user's font has a glyph for that code point or
not ?
Click to expand...

It's not the user sending the email who is having the problem. It's
the user receiving the email who might not have the font installed as
chosen by the sender.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
 
J

Jeff Johnson

What did you mean by glyph ?
Click to expand...

"Glyph" is the technical word for a "visual representation of a character."
The differences in the glyphs are generally what make fonts look different
from each other. For example, a capital A in Times New Roman looks different
from a capital A in Arial and a capital A in Courier New. They're all the
same character and they're at the same code point (U+0041), but each font
file defines different glyphs. Not all font files contain glyphs for every
defined code point (defined by the Unicode standard, that is). When a font
file doesn't contain a particular glyph, the text APIs of a given operating
system will usually draw a "missing character" glyph, which is most often an
unfilled box on Windows and a black diamond with a white question mark on
the Mac (and *nix boxes, I think).

You're most likely to run into unsupported glyphs when you go far afield of
"standard characters." Most fonts include basic Latin characters and often
include other similar characters like Cyrillic and Greek, and maybe even
Hebrew and Arabic. The triangular bullet you have posted is in the "General
Punctuation" subrange at code point U+2023 (which, oddly, is 8227 in
decimal, not 8211 as your post shows; 8211, aka U+2013, is an en-dash).
Basic Windows fonts like Arial, Times New Roman, and Verdana do not have
this glyph, but Arial Unicode MS does. Interestingly, I have OE set to
display in Verdana, but I still see the triangle. Perhaps the text renderer
is smart enough to switch to a font where the glyph is supported, if one
exists on the system.
How can I check if the user's font has a glyph for that code point or
not ?
Click to expand...

You can't. You have no idea what fonts the recipient will have on his
machine. Web designers learned a long time ago that if you want to do
something fancy, you better make an image, because relying on text is
extremely brittle.
 
M

Mayayana

How can I check if the user's font has a glyph for that code point or
not ?

In addition to what Jeff said, You really shouldn't
allow MS Office to write your HTML unless you know
that everyone you send to has MS Office. In addition to
being incredibly bloated, MS-generated HTML may use
non-standard code that doesn't show correctly in
Thunderbird, etc.

It's best to write the HTML/CSS yourself. Make sure
it's compatible. And avoid non-common fonts. (I don't
have Trebuchet on XP. I'm guessing that's an MS
Office-specific font. I have OO installed but not
MS Office.)

One option if you don't want to use images might be
•. That's a round bullet in Verdana. In most
fonts it will be a bullet, but of varying size. Virtually
all Windows PCs should have Verdana. If you need
to deal with Macs you should check their fonts. Maybe
Helvetica would work OK.

<STYLE>
..Bullet {font-family: verdana, helvetica; font-size: 24px; color: #CC0033;}
</STYLE>

<SPAN CLASS="Bullet"> • </SPAN>
 
F

fniles

Thank you everybody for your reply.

This is for intra company usage, so everybody has Outlook and Office.

Say my VB program sends the email to 2 different email addresses say
(e-mail address removed) and (e-mail address removed).
(e-mail address removed) can see the arrow in his Outlook, but (e-mail address removed) can't
see the arrow as arrow in his Outlook.
But, if (e-mail address removed) forward the email he got from my program to
(e-mail address removed), then (e-mail address removed) can see the arrow in his Outlook.
So, if (e-mail address removed) doesn't have the glyph for that code point, how
come he can see the arrow when (e-mail address removed) forward the email to him ?
 
F

fniles

Those clients in my company that can't read â–º in their Outlook, it
looks like by the time the email reach them, the â–º was converted to
–.
But the weird thing is if through my VB program I send the email to a
client that can see the arrow fine like â–º (either an Outlook clientor
gmail), then I forward that email to that other client that can't read
the â–º in the email sent from the program, now that client can read the
â–º fine.
So, if that client doesn't have the glyph or font, how could he see
the â–º fine when the email is forwarded from another client that can
see it ?

Thank you
 
F

fniles

More info:
The emails were written by some other people in the company, not by
me, so I have no control of what they use (image or font), all my VB
program does it forward their email to another users.
From this code below, do I understand it correctly that the â–º is part
of Arial font ?

<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=blue size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">â–º&nbsp;<o:p></
o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>

Since all the email recipients are in our company, I will be able to
check what font they have, etc.
Where can I check that ?

Thank you again.
 
N

Nobody

fniles said:
Those clients in my company that can't read ? in their Outlook, it
looks like by the time the email reach them, the ? was converted to
–.
Click to expand...

You can't just put any character in HTML source. Some characters are unsafe,
and you need to encode them. If the user was using a decent HTML editor, it
will take care of the encoding, but some users edit the HTML source directly
and are unaware that there are some characters that they cannot use, or use
a bad HTML editor, so you need to make sure that these characters are
encoded.

If you start with a Text only source, not HTML, then this function would
translate unsafe characters so you can embed them in HTML source:

HTMLEncode:
http://www.devx.com/vb2themax/Tip/19162

If someone edited an HTML source, and added unsafe characters, then you need
to do more work. Here is an HTML reference that you could use:

http://www.htmlhelp.com/

These links come from the above:

HTML 4 Reference:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/

Special Characters:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#characters
 
N

Nobody

You have asked several specific questions about how to read and forward
emails, but you didn't say what the overall result that you are looking for,
in case there is an existing solution for what you need.
 
F

fniles

Thank you for your reply.

My VB6 program reads emails in a POP 3 server, and the emails are base
64.
I can't control what characters can or can not be in the emails.
I use the "DecodeBase64String" function in the POP3 class that comes
with POP3 Sample codes.
After I decode the emails, it is in HTML format.
After that my program sends that emails using SMTP to people within
the company, some are using Outlook 2003, some Outlook 2007.
The email contains arrow like this â–º.
When my program sends the email out, some people can view that arrow
in the email, some can not (in their case the â–º becomes – or
something else).
The weird thing is if the people that can view the â–º forward that the
email to the people that can't view it (if they view the email from my
program), then this people can view the â–º. If the problem is their
font, then why would they be able to view the â–º when it is forwarded
from the other people ?

The overall result that I am looking for is for everybody in the
company (they are all using Outlook) to be able to view the â–º in the
email when the email is sent from my program.

Thank you.
 
N

Nobody

Outlook uses IE to display emails, and MS Word to compose emails. Some
versions of IE are more forgiving of HTML errors than others. Also, fonts in
different operating systems may implement more or less characters, even
though the font name is the same. Add to that if the HTML source didn't
include a font name(unlikely), then a default font is used.

Finally, I think you misunderstood my question about the overall problem
that you are trying to solve. What I meant is why did you need to write this
program in the first place? Why does your company want to download and
forward emails? What re they trying to accomplish?




Thank you for your reply.

My VB6 program reads emails in a POP 3 server, and the emails are base
64.
I can't control what characters can or can not be in the emails.
I use the "DecodeBase64String" function in the POP3 class that comes
with POP3 Sample codes.
After I decode the emails, it is in HTML format.
After that my program sends that emails using SMTP to people within
the company, some are using Outlook 2003, some Outlook 2007.
The email contains arrow like this ?.
When my program sends the email out, some people can view that arrow
in the email, some can not (in their case the ? becomes – or
something else).
The weird thing is if the people that can view the ? forward that the
email to the people that can't view it (if they view the email from my
program), then this people can view the ?. If the problem is their
font, then why would they be able to view the ? when it is forwarded
from the other people ?

The overall result that I am looking for is for everybody in the
company (they are all using Outlook) to be able to view the ? in the
email when the email is sent from my program.

Thank you.
 
F

fniles

Unfortunately I do not know why they want to forward the emails, I was
told to do that.

In the VB6 program, before I send the email, I write it to a TXT file
to see what's in the email, and this is what it says: (it is using
Arial as its font):
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=blue size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE:
10pt">â–º&nbsp;<o:p></
o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>


I understand that everybody is saying that it has something to do with
the fact that the font doesn't exist for â–º in the client's machine.

But, what is the answer to this question ?
On my machine (uses Outlook 2003) I can't see the â–º in my Outlook if
the email is sent from my program (which is also on my machine), but
when I go to IE on my machine and view the TXT file from the email
that I sent from my program (before I send the email I write it to TXT
file), I can see the â–º.
Also, I sent the email from my program to another machine that can
view the â–º in their Outlook.
Then, I forward that email from that machine to my machine, and now I
can see the â–º in my Outlook.
If the problem is my font, then why would I be able to view the â–º when
it is forwarded from the other person Outlook ?

Thank you for your help.
 
N

Nobody

fniles said:
Unfortunately I do not know why they want to forward the emails, I was
told to do that.
Click to expand...

You need to ask them. There are ready solutions without having to reinvent
the wheel. See here for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_forwarding

You can use Outlook's Rule Wizard to auto forward to multiple emails
addresses at once(I just tested in Outlook 2002), so there is no need to
write software for this.

Also, I have a shared web host account that I am paying less than $20/Month
for, and in the control panel, I can set auto forwarding to multiple email
addresses, so there could be something similar that your company already
has.
In the VB6 program, before I send the email, I write it to a TXT file
to see what's in the email, and this is what it says: (it is using
Arial as its font):
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=blue size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE:
10pt">?&nbsp;<o:p></
o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>


I understand that everybody is saying that it has something to do with
the fact that the font doesn't exist for ? in the client's machine.
Click to expand...

HTML files can be Unicode files, so it's possible that you are converting
them back to ANSI. However, they usually start with byte sequence &HFF,
followed by &HFE to indicate that the file format is Unicode. Try using a
Hex editor to see what the character code looks like. Here is a free Hex
editor:

http://www.chmaas.handshake.de/delphi/freeware/xvi32/xvi32.htm

Also, I just checked your first post and noticed this line:

<META content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>

"charset" is UTF-8, so that character is encoded, possibly in a sequence of
3 bytes. Some links(Search for FEFF in the first link):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_and_HTML

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8
 
F

fniles

Thank you for your help. I appreciate it.
I will bring up the idea of Outlook Rule Wizard to them.
HTML files can be Unicode files, so it's possible that you are converting them back to ANSI.
Click to expand...
Did you mean I am converting the â–º before I send the email ?
If I do that, why some clients can read it correctly ?

When I read â–º in the hex editor, it shows 6 characters
EF
BB
BF
E2
96
BA
"charset" is UTF-8, so that character is encoded, possibly in a sequence of 3 bytes.
Click to expand...
If â–º is encoded, what does it mean in terms of what I need to do
before I send the email ?

Thank you
 
D

DAS

This discussion highlights the really important point that one must never
assume the recipient sees what the sender sends in e-mail.

Thus:

1. Keep signs and symbols simple, best in plain text, however boring it
looks.

2. Send pdf to ensure the recipient sees what the sender designs. Even if
sending a document in a 'standard' format such as .doc or .xls. you never
know which version is available at the other end (unless you've checked...).

In this particular case the OP says everyone in the company has the same
software (and same edition), so problems should not often arise.

DAS
 
J

Jeff Johnson

Outlook uses IE to display emails, and MS Word to compose emails.
Click to expand...

Unless you tell Outlook NOT to use Word, at which point it will use its own
internal editor, which is most likely based on IE functionality. Just for
completeness....
 
N

Nobody

fniles said:
If ? is encoded, what does it mean in terms of what I need to do
before I send the email ?
Click to expand...

A lot of things, like starting 20 threads, once per week on average, like
for example, why the following line prints 8250 in a US-English system
instead of 155?

Debug.Print AscW(Chr(155))

See also this post and the sample in it:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion/msg/372001f97c1ab0f6

Or read a book about internationalization, or just use Outlook or your email
server auto forwarding feature. This is not a simple task as it might appear
to be.
 
F

fniles

I am sorry, I am asking this question again, but I don't think I've
seen the answer to this question, and now my boss wants to know the
answer to this question

On my machine (uses Outlook 2003) I can't see the â–º in my Outlook if
the email is sent from my program (which is also on my machine).
If I sent the email from my program to another machine that can view
the â–º in their Outlook, then, I forward that email from that machine
to my machine, and now I
can see the â–º in my Outlook.
Why is that ?

Thank you
 

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