Project 2003 Licensing - Best way

F

FMCyb

I need some feedback on Project 2003 licensing. That includes:

Project Server 2003
Project Professional 2003
PWA licenses
SQL Server Licenses
Win2003 Standard server Licenses
Any other licenses related to Project 2003 environment.

We have production & development Project 2003 environments.

Q1. What is the best strategy for Project 2003 licensing?

Q2. Microsoft offers different kind of licensing programs... regular one,
Volume licensing, MSDN etc .... .Which one is best for such environment?

Q3. Approximately how many SQL Client Access licenses are required for an
environment with 600 Project users?

Q4. Do we have to maintain licenses every year or its just one time cost?
(Provided we keep our licenses within our limit.)

Any link / docs / suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

FM
 
R

Rolly Perreaux

Comments Inline...

I need some feedback on Project 2003 licensing. That includes:

Project Server 2003
Project Professional 2003
PWA licenses
SQL Server Licenses
Win2003 Standard server Licenses
Any other licenses related to Project 2003 environment.

We have production & development Project 2003 environments.

Q1. What is the best strategy for Project 2003 licensing?

Can you be a little more specific?
What is your production environment?
How many users will be using EPM?

Q2. Microsoft offers different kind of licensing programs... regular one,
Volume licensing, MSDN etc .... .Which one is best for such environment?

If you are planning to deploy the EPM solution you should consider
Volume Licensing. Which Volume Licensing program you ask? See below for
more details

As a side note on MSDN Licensing
"All products that ship in MSDN Subscriptions are for development and
test purposes only, and cannot be used in a live production
environment."

http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/licensing/default.aspx

Q3. Approximately how many SQL Client Access licenses are required for an
environment with 600 Project users?

SQL Server and Client Licensing is a little bit tricky...
But as I read it the SQL licensing at:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/default.asp

You have the choice between:
a. Processor License or;
b. Server plus User or Device CALs

Since Project Server only requires SQL User CALs for the following
accounts:
MSProjectServerUser
MSProjectUser
SQLadmin or SA
OLAP account (for building OLAP Cubes)
OLAP Role Group (for accessing OLAP Cube data in Portfolio Analyzer
Views)

I would think you would only need:
1 SQL Server License
5 SQL User CALs

However, if all Project Server components are on one box (SQL, Analysis
Server, WSS, Project Front End, Views Processing, Session Mgmnt) you
might get away with:

1 SQL Server License
1 SQL Device CAL

In any case if you want Portfolio Analyzer Views (and who wouldn't <g>)
then you'll need the Enterprise Edition of SQL Server 2000.

Make no mistake your best bet is to contact your Microsoft Regional
Representative for the official word. But whatever you do, make sure you
get it in writing or get an official Microsoft URL link where the
information is located. (just a little CYA)
Q4. Do we have to maintain licenses every year or its just one time cost?
(Provided we keep our licenses within our limit.)

It depends on the Volume Licensing Program your organization selects

Here a good link on comparing the Volume Licensing Programs:
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/programs/sa/saolsleacompare.mspx

Any link / docs / suggestions?

Here's a link to a Project Licensing Brief:
(It's in Word Format)

http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/e/5/4e5b9df6-2fb7-487f-b02f-
14ce151ea0d7/Project_2003.doc
OR
http://tinyurl.com/d2q5e


Good Luck!

--
Rolly Perreaux
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

IT Summit Series
Advanced Microsoft Technology Training
http://www.itsummitseries.com
 
F

FMCyb

Thanks for the reply.

Rolly Perreaux said:
Comments Inline...



Can you be a little more specific?
What is your production environment?
How many users will be using EPM?



If you are planning to deploy the EPM solution you should consider
Volume Licensing. Which Volume Licensing program you ask? See below for
more details

As a side note on MSDN Licensing
"All products that ship in MSDN Subscriptions are for development and
test purposes only, and cannot be used in a live production
environment."

http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/licensing/default.aspx



SQL Server and Client Licensing is a little bit tricky...
But as I read it the SQL licensing at:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/default.asp

You have the choice between:
a. Processor License or;
b. Server plus User or Device CALs

Since Project Server only requires SQL User CALs for the following
accounts:
MSProjectServerUser
MSProjectUser
SQLadmin or SA
OLAP account (for building OLAP Cubes)
OLAP Role Group (for accessing OLAP Cube data in Portfolio Analyzer
Views)

I would think you would only need:
1 SQL Server License
5 SQL User CALs

However, if all Project Server components are on one box (SQL, Analysis
Server, WSS, Project Front End, Views Processing, Session Mgmnt) you
might get away with:

1 SQL Server License
1 SQL Device CAL

In any case if you want Portfolio Analyzer Views (and who wouldn't <g>)
then you'll need the Enterprise Edition of SQL Server 2000.

Make no mistake your best bet is to contact your Microsoft Regional
Representative for the official word. But whatever you do, make sure you
get it in writing or get an official Microsoft URL link where the
information is located. (just a little CYA)


It depends on the Volume Licensing Program your organization selects

Here a good link on comparing the Volume Licensing Programs:
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/programs/sa/saolsleacompare.mspx



Here's a link to a Project Licensing Brief:
(It's in Word Format)

http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/e/5/4e5b9df6-2fb7-487f-b02f-
14ce151ea0d7/Project_2003.doc
OR
http://tinyurl.com/d2q5e


Good Luck!

--
Rolly Perreaux
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

IT Summit Series
Advanced Microsoft Technology Training
http://www.itsummitseries.com
 
J

John Sitka

Since Project Server only requires SQL User CALs for the following
accounts:
MSProjectServerUser
MSProjectUser
SQLadmin or SA
OLAP account (for building OLAP Cubes)
OLAP Role Group (for accessing OLAP Cube data in Portfolio Analyzer
Views)

I would think you would only need:
1 SQL Server License
5 SQL User CALs
But as I read it the SQL licensing at:

read it again.

Server plus device CAL licensing is optimal for customers who do not need access beyond the firewall and who have relatively low
CAL-to-server ratios (for example, approximately 25 or fewer devices per processor for Standard Edition and 75 or fewer devices per
processor for Enterprise Edition). The device CAL model will likely be more cost effective than user CALs if there are multiple
users per device (for example, a call center or an airport kiosk).

Server plus user CAL licensing is optimal for customers who do not need access beyond the firewall and who have relatively low
CAL-to-server ratios (for example, approximately 25 or fewer users per processor for Standard Edition and 75 or fewer users per
processor for Enterprise Edition). The user CAL model will likely be more cost effective than device CALs if there are multiple
devices per user (for example, a user has a laptop and handheld computer accessing SQL Server).

Accounts aren't Users in Microsoft licencing. Accounts aren't Devices in Microsoft SQL licencing.
Even though some legacy licence counting applications say they can be.

Users are users, therfore 600 Project users (web or thick client) being served by the SQL Service. 601 SQL CALS

Even SQL driven web servers (the only one IUSER account arguement) need one call per user(person or device)
Webs have many users, hopefully millions. The break even point on USER/device CALS vs Processor licencing is
very low (I remember calculating ~50 on dual proc/Standard edition). Applicable really only to dedicated single application access
in a tightly controlled network.

What of per device you say, Project Server and a single client, 600 people at one PC is a lot.
plus you loose the distributed nature of Project Server which is why you buy it.

Now this has taken on a bit of a rant. But I really wish the misinformation would stop.
I went to my IT manager, tried to explain SQL licencing to him, he came back at me with "well the reseller said".
Then a few days later "the reseller said" THE OPPOSITE. He didn't understand SQL licencing either.
Why is that bad besides the huge waste of time the chat was...That reseller employee leaves the resller.
A year later you get audited. 5 SQL CALS, 100's of PWA users all benefiting from the SQL Service,
whose responsibility is it that you are either short CAL's (a bunch of them) or not in possession of proc licences?
The guy who gave you bad advice, that is no longer a Microsoft sales person and all that he left you with was a "but he said".

This is going to change yet again slightly next version but for now. Think business strategy....
A low client count serving SQL machine still needs backup restore support, and fast hardware.
This for the most part can scale to serve backup for example one user or a thousand users
ex. a tape drive at $5000 for 1 person or $5000 for thousands of people which is the better value?

At this moment in time, unless you are a very small single purpose company and can enumerate all the SQL
queries from users/devices just get the proc licencing.
 
R

Rolly Perreaux

read it again.

Server plus device CAL licensing is optimal for customers who do not need access beyond the firewall and who have relatively low
CAL-to-server ratios (for example, approximately 25 or fewer devices per processor for Standard Edition and 75 or fewer devices per
processor for Enterprise Edition). The device CAL model will likely be more cost effective than user CALs if there are multiple
users per device (for example, a call center or an airport kiosk).

Server plus user CAL licensing is optimal for customers who do not need access beyond the firewall and who have relatively low
CAL-to-server ratios (for example, approximately 25 or fewer users per processor for Standard Edition and 75 or fewer users per
processor for Enterprise Edition). The user CAL model will likely be more cost effective than device CALs if there are multiple
devices per user (for example, a user has a laptop and handheld computer accessing SQL Server).

Accounts aren't Users in Microsoft licencing. Accounts aren't Devices in Microsoft SQL licencing.
Even though some legacy licence counting applications say they can be.

Users are users, therfore 600 Project users (web or thick client) being served by the SQL Service. 601 SQL CALS

Even SQL driven web servers (the only one IUSER account arguement) need one call per user(person or device)
Webs have many users, hopefully millions. The break even point on USER/device CALS vs Processor licencing is
very low (I remember calculating ~50 on dual proc/Standard edition). Applicable really only to dedicated single application access
in a tightly controlled network.

What of per device you say, Project Server and a single client, 600 people at one PC is a lot.
plus you loose the distributed nature of Project Server which is why you buy it.

Now this has taken on a bit of a rant. But I really wish the misinformation would stop.
I went to my IT manager, tried to explain SQL licencing to him, he came back at me with "well the reseller said".
Then a few days later "the reseller said" THE OPPOSITE. He didn't understand SQL licencing either.
Why is that bad besides the huge waste of time the chat was...That reseller employee leaves the resller.
A year later you get audited. 5 SQL CALS, 100's of PWA users all benefiting from the SQL Service,
whose responsibility is it that you are either short CAL's (a bunch of them) or not in possession of proc licences?
The guy who gave you bad advice, that is no longer a Microsoft sales person and all that he left you with was a "but he said".

This is going to change yet again slightly next version but for now. Think business strategy....

Actually we're both wrong.

I finished talking with the folks at Microsoft Licensing and they say
only Project Professional users would require a SQL CAL.

PWA users DO NOT need SQL CALs

So to recap...
If you had 600 Project Server 2003 users and 6 of them were (let's say)
Project Managers planning to use Project Pro 2003 to connect to Project
Server 2003, and everything is loaded on one server. You would need the
following licenses:

1 - Windows Server 2003 server license
600 - Windows Server 2003 CALs

1 - Project Server 2003 server license
600 - PWA CALs

1 - SQL Server 2000 server license
(enterprise edition for Portfolio Analyzer)
6 - SQL Server 2000 CALs (for the PMs)

The new things we learn everyday <g>

--
Rolly Perreaux
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

IT Summit Series
Advanced Microsoft Technology Training
http://www.itsummitseries.com
 
J

John Sitka

I know what they told you, I was told the same thing.
PWA users DO NOT need SQL CALs
It was later retracted.

What you and Microsoft Licencing are saying
is the PWA CAL does indeed override the SQL licensing requirements.
It would be interesting to see that written down somewhere.
I'd love to see it because I looked for a very long time.

J.
 
F

FMCyb

Thanks for the update.

I've two Project environments.

1. Development (Everyting on 1 server) -- For developing / testing purpose.
Used by only few people for testing / developing.
2. Production (Distributed on two servers -- IIS/Project on one server,
SQL/Analysis on another)

Using:
Win2003 Standard Ed,
SQL 2000 Standard Ed.
PWA Users = 500 (Approx)
Project Professional 2003 Users = 30 to 40

At present the licenses we have: (bought here by old consultant)
Project Professional 2003 (Mol-Bus)= 35
Project Server 2003 (Mol Vol Serv)= 1
Project Server 2003 Lic (CAL) Device = 370
SQL 2000 CAL = 250
Win2003 Standard = 1
Win2003 CAL device = 400

Based on above figures, what are the best figures to go with Project
licensing?

Regards
FMCyb
 
R

Rolly Perreaux

Thanks for the update.

I've two Project environments.

1. Development (Everyting on 1 server) -- For developing / testing purpose.
Used by only few people for testing / developing.
2. Production (Distributed on two servers -- IIS/Project on one server,
SQL/Analysis on another)

Using:
Win2003 Standard Ed,
SQL 2000 Standard Ed.
PWA Users = 500 (Approx)
Project Professional 2003 Users = 30 to 40

At present the licenses we have: (bought here by old consultant)
Project Professional 2003 (Mol-Bus)= 35
Project Server 2003 (Mol Vol Serv)= 1
Project Server 2003 Lic (CAL) Device = 370
SQL 2000 CAL = 250
Win2003 Standard = 1
Win2003 CAL device = 400

Based on above figures, what are the best figures to go with Project
licensing?

Regards
FMCyb


You'd need to increase the licensing for the following:

Project Server 2003 Lic (CAL) Device = (500 - 370) = 130
Win2003 CAL device = (500 - 400) = 100
SQL 2000 CAL = ????

I'm on the phone right now with MS Licensing and trying to get a SQL
2000 CAL licensing requirement document for your situation. And Man they
are digging for that document <g>

Just as an update...
When I called MS Licensing for a 2nd time, they now have changed their
tune and are saying what John has stated. However, I asked them for the
document of the SQL 2000 CAL licensing requirement specifically for
Project Server 2003.

So we shall see as I'm still on hold :)


--
Rolly Perreaux
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

IT Summit Series
Advanced Microsoft Technology Training
http://www.itsummitseries.com
 
J

John Sitka

I'd like to help but I can't get past the SQL part in Rolly's latest update.
Not much help chiming in if the (mythical, ha ha) PWA SQL licence requirement
override is true.

But it is interesting that you have 250 SQL CALs.
Like I quoted Microsoft, the break even points are pretty low;
but very server specific.

Single cpu std edition, is a long way from Quad cpu enterprise edition pricing.

Which do you have? But if Rolly is correct it may prove irrelevent.

If I could maybe offer another insight. I'd also worry about a year from now
Yukon/Project Server 2006 or whatever, (I'm sure the Project Server team isn't sitting idle)
so a Software Assurance model may be the best negotiating tool and present best value.
If you consider 3 -5 years. Yukon adoption maybe slow in the Enterprise but it maybe driven
by the Project Server in your case so you wouldn't want to replace the SQL licences in two years
all over again.


If the PWA SQL licence requirement override does exist? just bump up your
Project Server 2003 Lic (CAL) Device = 370
and rock out.

You are claiming usage of 3 WIN2003 Servers though and only showing 1
so that needs correcting.

Device CALS allow multi server access.

So
Win2003 Standard = 1
becomes
Win2003 Standard = 1 + 2
Win2003 CAL device = 400
might not have to change is there is only that many devices. Two shifts for example.

Only one guys opion really.
 
J

John Sitka

Rolly, ROCKS
I'm so happy you are digging into this.
I'm inspired....Rolly Rolly Rolly. the chants ring up.

I think what happens is Project Server = big rollout, assume everybody in that scale will have proc licence
which is kind of how thngs fall out most of the time. Pretty legit..., consider the RBS, that's set up for a lot of folks.
 
R

Rolly Perreaux

It took a while but we found the official Microsoft Licensing answer.
The SQL Server 2000 licensing has to deal with the issue of multiplexing
which is what Project Server 2003 does.

Here's the link to the SQL Server 2000 TechNet web page in question:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/sql/2000/reskit/part2/c0461
..mspx
OR
http://tinyurl.com/99t85

Specifically here's the actual topic:

"Licensing in Multi-Tier Environments (Including Multiplexing or
Pooling)

Sometimes organizations develop network solutions that use various forms
of hardware and/or software to reduce the number of devices that
directly access or use the software on a particular server. This
particular solution is often called multiplexing or pooling hardware or
software. It is particularly common in multi-tier environments. For
example, say a client computer is using a server application that calls
Component Services, available with Microsoft Windows 2000 Server, on one
server, which in turn pulls data from a SQL Server database on another
server. In this case, the only direct connection to SQL Server is coming
from the server running Component Services. The client computer has a
direct connection to the server running Component Services, but the
client computer also has an indirect connection to SQL Server because it
is ultimately retrieving and using the SQL Server data through Component
Services. Use of multiplexing or pooling hardware and/or software does
not reduce the number of CALs required to access or use SQL Server. A
CAL is required for each distinct input to the multiplexing or pooling
software or hardware front end. If, in the above example, 50 client
computers were connected to the server running Component Services, 50
SQL Server CALs would be required. This is true no matter how many tiers
of hardware or software exist between the SQL Server and the client
devices that ultimately use its data, services, or functionality."


I would bookmark this page as it's an excellent resource for ANY product
that uses SQL Server 2000 on the back-end.

BTW, if anyone needs information on Microsoft Licensing they should
check here first:

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/resources/volbrief.mspx

They have quite a number of licensing briefs that you can download in
word format.

So there you have it folks :)
Have a Great Weekend!

--
Rolly Perreaux
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

IT Summit Series
Advanced Microsoft Technology Training
http://www.itsummitseries.com
 
J

John Sitka

Thanks for the research, links and follow through, hopefully you have inspired the resellers
to read this kind of stuff once in a while.

While on this topic may as well point out the other stumbling point in much of the
undersatnding of PWA CAL license requirement as well.

This stems from the fact that an entity participating in a Project Server environment is assumed to
be a person. Microsoft has not built a heirarchical structure for reporting.... a control panel,
so to speak, for those in charge of reporting availability of non web savy resources.
(I think robots or earthmovers are good examples)

A large part of the documentation leads down the path of resources=users=PWA CAL requirement.
Project Server even records a licensing bit per active non-generic resource. This representation
is meaningless when considered in the context of the root definition of USER/DEVICE in the
Volume licence agreement. A few thousand logical accounts does not mean you need a few thousand
PWA CAL's only CALS for users (or devices). Again this is a case where
an advisory of "You need a CAL for each resource" is false.

The user (or device) that logs into PWA either through the web or from the web interface in Project Pro
requires a PWA CAL. The logical account that they use to log into PWA does not.

J.
 
G

Gary L. Chefetz [MVP]

disz:

These are two separate products. Project Standard is for standalone
applications. The only difference in Project Professional is that it
connects to Project Server, giving you EPM capabilities. If you are not
implementing Project Server, you do not need the Professional edition.

--

Gary L. Chefetz, MVP
MSProjectExperts
For Project Server Consulting: http://www.msprojectexperts.com
For Project Server FAQS: http://www.projectserverexperts.com
 
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