Project 2007 Crashing with Linked Files

[Rob Schneider]

Folks,

I've done this sort of thing at similar scale with Project 2003 and
prior, but now I'm forced to use Project 2007 and it's failing?

Quanity Type
1 Super Master file
13 Sub Master files which go up to the Super Mater
each submater file holds links to 10 to 60 files
~200 Base MPP files with about 160 tasks tasks (with 1 level
of summary tasks) which link into one of the submasters

Opening any of the submster level files opens up all linked files fine.

When I open the "super" master, Project 2007 crashes. It invites me
to show details, provide info to Microsoft, etc. That does me no good.
I need to ope the top level file to get progress for the whole programme.

I've tried re-creating the super master. I don't think the files are
corrupted as they open individuall. The total number of tasks in the
super master is well under the maximum number of tasks in Project's
spec. I have 4gb memory on Vista.

Ideas?

I can't think of a way to only link up the summary tasks so as to
minimise the number of real tasks but still get the overall. Is there a way?

 

[John]

Folks,

I've done this sort of thing at similar scale with Project 2003 and
prior, but now I'm forced to use Project 2007 and it's failing?

Quanity Type
1 Super Master file
13 Sub Master files which go up to the Super Mater
each submater file holds links to 10 to 60 files
~200 Base MPP files with about 160 tasks tasks (with 1 level
of summary tasks) which link into one of the submasters

Opening any of the submster level files opens up all linked files fine.

When I open the "super" master, Project 2007 crashes. It invites me
to show details, provide info to Microsoft, etc. That does me no good.
I need to ope the top level file to get progress for the whole programme.

I've tried re-creating the super master. I don't think the files are
corrupted as they open individuall. The total number of tasks in the
super master is well under the maximum number of tasks in Project's
spec. I have 4gb memory on Vista.

Ideas?

I can't think of a way to only link up the summary tasks so as to
minimise the number of real tasks but still get the overall. Is there a way?

Rob,
The first thing you might want to do is to check your spell checker.
Please, proofread before you post.

Do all of the files, master and subprojects reside in the same folder?
If not, they should to minimize the chance of corruption.

You mention something about each of the 13 subprojects having links to
several files. What exactly does that mean? I think I understand your
structure but a little clarification would be helpful.

Just being able to open the subproject files doesn't necessarily mean
there is no corruption, particularly if the "super master" doesn't open.
You might try a restart from scratch and rebuild your whole structure.
Granted, a pain in the tush but it may be necessary to clean things up.
I'd start by using one or more of the methods in FAQ 43 - handling
project file corruption and/or bloat, found on our MVP website at,
http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm. Start with the individual project
files and then rebuild your masters.

I don't quite understand your last statement about linking up the
summary tasks to minimize the number of "real" tasks. A dynamically
consolidated master file, which is the default in Project, creates a
master with pointers to each individual subproject. Those subprojects
are NOT actually part of the master. There is no way to create a dynamic
master that only links to certain parts of a subproject - its all or
nothing.

John
Project MVP

 

[John]

Folks,

I've done this sort of thing at similar scale with Project 2003 and
prior, but now I'm forced to use Project 2007 and it's failing?

Quanity Type
1 Super Master file
13 Sub Master files which go up to the Super Mater
each submater file holds links to 10 to 60 files
~200 Base MPP files with about 160 tasks tasks (with 1 level
of summary tasks) which link into one of the submasters

Opening any of the submster level files opens up all linked files fine.

When I open the "super" master, Project 2007 crashes. It invites me
to show details, provide info to Microsoft, etc. That does me no good.
I need to ope the top level file to get progress for the whole programme.

I've tried re-creating the super master. I don't think the files are
corrupted as they open individuall. The total number of tasks in the
super master is well under the maximum number of tasks in Project's
spec. I have 4gb memory on Vista.

Ideas?

I can't think of a way to only link up the summary tasks so as to
minimise the number of real tasks but still get the overall. Is there a way?

Rob,
The first thing you might want to do is to check your spell checker.
Please, proofread before you post.

Do all of the files, master and subprojects reside in the same folder?
If not, they should to minimize the chance of corruption.

You mention something about each of the 13 subprojects having links to
several files. What exactly does that mean? I think I understand your
structure but a little clarification would be helpful.

Just being able to open the subproject files doesn't necessarily mean
there is no corruption, particularly if the "super master" doesn't open.
You might try a restart from scratch and rebuild your whole structure.
Granted, a pain in the tush but it may be necessary to clean things up.
I'd start by using one or more of the methods in FAQ 43 - handling
project file corruption and/or bloat, found on our MVP website at,
http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm. Start with the individual project
files and then rebuild your masters.

I don't quite understand your last statement about linking up the
summary tasks to minimize the number of "real" tasks. A dynamically
consolidated master file, which is the default in Project, creates a
master with pointers to each individual subproject. Those subprojects
are NOT actually part of the master. There is no way to create a dynamic
master that only links to certain parts of a subproject - its all or
nothing.

John
Project MVP

 

[Rob Schneider]

Rob,
The first thing you might want to do is to check your spell checker.
Please, proofread before you post.

Do all of the files, master and subprojects reside in the same folder?
If not, they should to minimize the chance of corruption.

You mention something about each of the 13 subprojects having links to
several files. What exactly does that mean? I think I understand your
structure but a little clarification would be helpful.

Just being able to open the subproject files doesn't necessarily mean
there is no corruption, particularly if the "super master" doesn't open.
You might try a restart from scratch and rebuild your whole structure.
Granted, a pain in the tush but it may be necessary to clean things up.
I'd start by using one or more of the methods in FAQ 43 - handling
project file corruption and/or bloat, found on our MVP website at,
http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm. Start with the individual project
files and then rebuild your masters.

I don't quite understand your last statement about linking up the
summary tasks to minimize the number of "real" tasks. A dynamically
consolidated master file, which is the default in Project, creates a
master with pointers to each individual subproject. Those subprojects
are NOT actually part of the master. There is no way to create a dynamic
master that only links to certain parts of a subproject - its all or
nothing.

John
Project MVP

John,

Thanks. And thanks for the reminder about spell checker. I thought I
did pretty darn well given that I composed the item on my iPhone with
thick fingers!

: All files in same folder on the local computer

: There are 263 "project" files each with about 160 tasks. All files
share the same resource file (see below). Each are linked upward to one
of 13 master files. Each of the 13 master files are linked upward to
another "master" which I flippantly call "the super master". I was
hoping eventually to link the "super master" upward yet again to an
overall view collected with other project programmes, but haven't tried
that yet.

: I did try to rebuild the master files, with no change. I've looked at
a sampling of the 263 files (can't look at all without effort) and they
seem ok. I may re-generate all these anyway since they were created
with a short VBA macro. I have the luxury of this re-gen *now* since the
team hasn't yet started to use them, but they need them now. But I can't
rely on re-gen for a sustainable process.

: re the last point ... this was just an idea. I understand that the
tasks are not "really" in the master file since they are linked. My
hypothesis is that while not "really" there, they are "virtually" there
as pointers; but Project has to load something into the computer's
memory once we open up all the tasks in the hierarchy. Could this lead
to a memory leak "bug" in Project 2007? Pointers in "C" and memory leaks
sort of go together, as I recall. My idea was to find a way to load less
at one time to avoiding the hypothetical memory leak. I don't know and I
really want to avoid this complexity. At this point I just know the
program crashes and that's unacceptable but the reality.

: because of this possible flaw in Project 2007, I was thinking that the
business reason we want this "rollup" is to get an overall view of the
status of the 263 "projects" and the 13 "sub masters" groupings. I'm
trying to think of another way to get this overall view without doing a
lot of work. The strategy of doing it as described above appeared to be
sustainable, simple, and very low cost since we exploit Project's
pre-built capability. But Project 2007 is letting us down by crashing.
I've done this sort of thing at this scale previously with Project 2003
and versions from the 20th century. We don't have the ability to use
these older versions with this team.

: For the time being, we are going to include only the current "in-play"
projects and see if this smaller number of linked projects works so that
we can get going with the project with Project. That's not what we need,
though.

: I will check out the bloat article again. New discovery: all 263
files share the same resource file which is devoid of tasks--only
resources-in the local computer/folder. I noticed late yesterday that
the shared resource file, despite having not resource assignments yet,
has exploded to over 100 mb. Yikes. Since it was only "strategic" and
not yet needed to have a shared resource file, I broke all the links and
re-saved. The resource file did not shrink. If I rebuild all the
files, I'll not use a shared resource file.

 

[John]

John,

Thanks. And thanks for the reminder about spell checker. I thought I
did pretty darn well given that I composed the item on my iPhone with
thick fingers!

: All files in same folder on the local computer

: There are 263 "project" files each with about 160 tasks. All files
share the same resource file (see below). Each are linked upward to one
of 13 master files. Each of the 13 master files are linked upward to
another "master" which I flippantly call "the super master". I was
hoping eventually to link the "super master" upward yet again to an
overall view collected with other project programmes, but haven't tried
that yet.

: I did try to rebuild the master files, with no change. I've looked at
a sampling of the 263 files (can't look at all without effort) and they
seem ok. I may re-generate all these anyway since they were created
with a short VBA macro. I have the luxury of this re-gen *now* since the
team hasn't yet started to use them, but they need them now. But I can't
rely on re-gen for a sustainable process.

: re the last point ... this was just an idea. I understand that the
tasks are not "really" in the master file since they are linked. My
hypothesis is that while not "really" there, they are "virtually" there
as pointers; but Project has to load something into the computer's
memory once we open up all the tasks in the hierarchy. Could this lead
to a memory leak "bug" in Project 2007? Pointers in "C" and memory leaks
sort of go together, as I recall. My idea was to find a way to load less
at one time to avoiding the hypothetical memory leak. I don't know and I
really want to avoid this complexity. At this point I just know the
program crashes and that's unacceptable but the reality.

: because of this possible flaw in Project 2007, I was thinking that the
business reason we want this "rollup" is to get an overall view of the
status of the 263 "projects" and the 13 "sub masters" groupings. I'm
trying to think of another way to get this overall view without doing a
lot of work. The strategy of doing it as described above appeared to be
sustainable, simple, and very low cost since we exploit Project's
pre-built capability. But Project 2007 is letting us down by crashing.
I've done this sort of thing at this scale previously with Project 2003
and versions from the 20th century. We don't have the ability to use
these older versions with this team.

: For the time being, we are going to include only the current "in-play"
projects and see if this smaller number of linked projects works so that
we can get going with the project with Project. That's not what we need,
though.

: I will check out the bloat article again. New discovery: all 263
files share the same resource file which is devoid of tasks--only
resources-in the local computer/folder. I noticed late yesterday that
the shared resource file, despite having not resource assignments yet,
has exploded to over 100 mb. Yikes. Since it was only "strategic" and
not yet needed to have a shared resource file, I broke all the links and
re-saved. The resource file did not shrink. If I rebuild all the
files, I'll not use a shared resource file.

Rob,
A couple of things. First, I confess that I don't use Project 2007
regularly so I don't know all of its quirks. My suggestion there is to
make sure you have the latest updates installed. Second, I don't run
Vista so I don't know what added "fun" that throws into the equation.

You mentioned that you can re-generate the "live" files with a VBA
macro. How exactly does that macro create the files? It may or may not
be relevant to the crashing problem.

I have not used a resource pool file but it is basically just another
subproject with the same linking fragility as a master/subproject
structure. If set up and maintained properly, a resource pool should
work fine but then if you can live without that, there is less chance of
corruption. The fact that your resource pool is 100 MB tells me there
definitely is corruption. One thing I always do to avoid file bloat is
to use "Save As" every time I save a file. Save as works like a replace
whereas a straight "save" works like an append and tends to build up the
bloat.

One final thought. Although I don't use it myself, have you considered
using Project Server? It is made for working with large multi-faceted
projects in an enterprise environment. If Server might be an option, you
can post to our sister newsgroup, microsoft.public.project.server, and
the MVPs there will be glad to guide you.

John
Project MVP

 

[Rob Schneider]

Rob,
A couple of things. First, I confess that I don't use Project 2007
regularly so I don't know all of its quirks. My suggestion there is to
make sure you have the latest updates installed. Second, I don't run
Vista so I don't know what added "fun" that throws into the equation.

You mentioned that you can re-generate the "live" files with a VBA
macro. How exactly does that macro create the files? It may or may not
be relevant to the crashing problem.

I have not used a resource pool file but it is basically just another
subproject with the same linking fragility as a master/subproject
structure. If set up and maintained properly, a resource pool should
work fine but then if you can live without that, there is less chance of
corruption. The fact that your resource pool is 100 MB tells me there
definitely is corruption. One thing I always do to avoid file bloat is
to use "Save As" every time I save a file. Save as works like a replace
whereas a straight "save" works like an append and tends to build up the
bloat.

One final thought. Although I don't use it myself, have you considered
using Project Server? It is made for working with large multi-faceted
projects in an enterprise environment. If Server might be an option, you
can post to our sister newsgroup, microsoft.public.project.server, and
the MVPs there will be glad to guide you.

John
Project MVP

John,

Thanks. I have all updates of Project 2007 that I know of. I hear an
update to Office planned for this month, so maybe it will be better. I
doubt Vista causing Project to crash. It's pretty solid (despite it's
reputation). But I can't speculate as I don't have clue and can't run a
debugger.

Re generating the "live files" ... It's just a macro that reads a list
of file names from a text file. Then it does, in VBA what one would do
manually: Menu: File/New create project based on template. Change all
the XXX in template to the name of the project, [attach resource to
shared resource file ... which I will take out], change project start
date (from text file), save baseline, then save project MPP file. Then
do again for the next project in the list. Do this 266 times.

File Save/As on the Resource file didn't appear to change anything. I
can live without as we aren't doing any resource tracking/modelling here.

I have considered Project Server. I have only used older versions and
have found for what my career brought me that we just didn't need the
complexity. This customer is against going that route due to high cost.
Not just for the hardware/software but also the cost to the
organisation to re-gengineer how they work, training, learning, etc.
That change would put too much risk into the organisation. This
application is not really and "enterprise". It's a small company and
each if these MPP files represents the potential work they must do on
each "site". Not all 266 sites will get worked through to completion;
but despite that they need to keep track of status on each until they
decide not to progress. That creates a data managment problem which is
realitively easy to solve by doing it in Project vs. other methods (of
which they had many, including 266+ Word documents, lots of complex
spreadsheets, paper, etc. ... Yikes!).

FYI, I created a new top level "super" project that had only about 60
linked files, and no crash in Project. So: with 266: crash. With 60 no
crash. It's a Project 207 flaw/bug.

I hope Microsoft lurking here and notices. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Rob Schneider]

crash. It's a Project 207 flaw/bug.

I hope Microsoft lurking here and notices. I won't hold my breath.

Installed SP2, and (cross fingers) crashing not seen.