PServer 2003 timesheet approval not following organizational RBS.

[Mata UY]

Dear all,

I have the following situation with a Project server 2003ndeployment.

The Timesheet approval is not following the organizational structure
defined in the RBS. I have checked and resource managers have the
required permissions (Approve Timesheets, and Global view timesheet).

Organization RBS is hierarchical. 7 ongoing Projects when the
organization decided they neded herarchical approval of timesheets.

Org.ProjectX.TeamX.Member

When Team members submit a timesheet, approval goes directly to the
project owner. Neither to the Resource Manager (with a RBS =
ORg.ProjectX.TeamX) nor to the PM (unless he is the project owner).

Any ideas what else I should check?
I tried creating a parallel RBS:
Test.ProjectX.TeamX.Member
Created a new project with new resources that belong to this parallel
structure.
Project owner is the Administrator. Project leader is defined in the
RBS.
With but had the same results, approval goes to the Administrator
user.

Any feedback or pointers are welcome.

Best regards,
Santiago

 

[Dale Howard [MVP]]

Mata UY --

Approval of task updates does not follow RBS security constructs. Instead,
task updates always go to the project manager of the project in which the
team member is submitting the updates. In Project Server 2003, there is no
way to force the system to send task updates to the team member's resource
manager for initial approval, and then on to the project manager for final
approval. Task updates go directly to the project manager for approval.
Hope this helps.

 

[Mata UY]

Dear Dale,

Thank you for your replay.

I was a bit taken by surprice by your replay.
Let my walk you thourgh my reasoning:

From the resopurce managers guide: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713771033.aspx

The following table lists the Microsoft Office Project Server 2003
permissions that are required for Microsoft Office Project
Professional 2003 and Microsoft Office Project Web Access 2003 users
to work with timesheets.

Permission Type Permission Description
Category Approve Timesheets for Resources Allows a resource manager to
approve a team member's submitted timesheet entries.
Category Adjust Actuals Determines the timesheets that are available
on the Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access.
Global Timesheet Approval Allows resource managers to access the
Approve Timesheets page in Project Web Access and approve their team
members' timesheets.
Global View Adjust Actuals Allows resource managers to access the
Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access and modify a team member's
submitted (and approved) timesheet entries.




In page: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713801033.aspx

"If more than one person is approving a timesheet, the last person to
approve or reject the same timesheet overwrites any previous approvals
or rejections of the timesheet."

Then it goes on to explain the mechanism.

So from the IT documentation it seems it is posible to have a
hierarchcal timesheet approval system.

Maybe it is that I am approaching it the wrong way.

Any alternatives you can think of? what I am trying to achive is to
privide with two levels of control for timeheet approval. The
Orgnaization´s project have

Best REgards,
Santiago

 

[Dale Howard [MVP]]

Mata UY --

Although the documentation is essentially correct, you are misreading what
is says, based on how Project Server 2003 actually works. You need to
understand that the timesheet approval system in Project Server 2003 is very
weak. Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved the
updates. That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process. Yes? Furthermore, your desire for a hierarchical timesheet
approval system just isn't there. As you read, one resource manager can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the time,
but that isn't hierarchical. One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.

If you really want this type of timesheet approval functionality, you need
to upgrade your system to Project Server 2007, which has a built-in
Timesheet system in which users can submit all types of time (project work,
non-project work, and nonworking time such as vacation) to their resource
managers, and submit task updates on task work only to their project
managers. And in the Project Server 2007, it is possible to set up a
hierarchical "chain" of timesheet approvers.

But, I think you should know that what you are trying to do with Project
Server 2003 just isn't going to work. Sorry for the bad news, but you are
using a system that is now 7 years old, and which will soon be two
generations behind in technology. Hope this helps.

 

[Mata UY]

I understand.

Actually, I think I can work arround the limitations of the
technology. Updating is not a feasible solution at least until the
following year.

You said:

Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved the
updates. That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process. Yes?

I can live with that.

As you read, one resource manager can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the time,
but that isn't hierarchical. One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.

Correct, so these guys are just gonna need to pick up the phone and
get aquainted. So I can live with that too.


So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet
for approval?

(I am going over the documentation after reading your notes).

I have 3 last questions:

- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behaviour. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own
his project. Correct?

- Can it be that managed periods have something to do with my resource
managers inability to see the timesheets updated by the resources they
manage?
We had decided not to use Managed periods, because tracing here is not
done on a periodic fixed duration basis. So I was hoping I could avoid
maintaining them.

Is is necessary for me to define the managed periods?

- If it is necessary to define the managed periods. Can you estimate
if there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects? (aside from making
them report at least to project server on a periodic basis)?
I wodering if previous data (baselines, progress) is safe.
Should I start the periods from the begining of the project? Or make
one BIG period from teh beggining until Next Week, and then at regular
intervals into the future?

Again, Let me thank you very much for your time.

Best regards,
Santiago

 

[Dale Howard [MVP]]

Mata UY --

You are really stretching my memory, as I haven't touched Project Server
2003 more than a few times in the last three years.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet for
approval?

Answer #1: Have you actually enabled the Timesheet Approval feature in
Project Server 2003? In the Permissions data grid on the Server
Configuration page, I believe you need to set BOTH the timesheet approval
permission and the managed time periods permission to Allow. Start with the
timesheet approval permission and see if the system forces you to select the
other permission. Assuming your resource managers are members of the
Resource Managers security group, they should now be able to see pending
timesheets for approval.

Answer #2: Ask your RMs to click the Timesheet link in the main content
area of the Home page. The system displays the Approve Timesheets page in
PWA. On this page, they can now approve pending timesheets.

I have 3 last questions:

#1 -- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behavior. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own his
project. Correct?

Answer: Yes.

#2 -- ...is it necessary for me to define the managed periods?

Answer: Like I said, my memory is REALLY hazy at this point, but yes, I
believe that if you want to use the timesheet approval process, you must
also use the Managed Time Periods feature.

#3 -- If it is necessary to define the managed periods, an you estimate if
there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects...

Answer: The impact will not be to the projects; instead, it will be to the
team members and the project managers, who will probably get very irritated
by the feature. I believe you will find the Managed Time Period process
VERY RESTRICTIVE and probably not worth the bother. Only you can decide
whether it is worth it.

Beyond this, I would STRONGLY encourage you to purchase both of our
company's books on Project Server 2003. These books would have answered all
of your questions, and I think you will find them a valuable reference as
you move forward. You can purchase them at:

http://projectserverbooks.com/books/project2003books.aspx

Hope this helps.

I understand.

Actually, I think I can work arround the limitations of the
technology. Updating is not a feasible solution at least until the
following year.

You said:

Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved
the
updates. That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process. Yes?

I can live with that.

As you read, one resource manager can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical. One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.

Correct, so these guys are just gonna need to pick up the phone and
get aquainted. So I can live with that too.


So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet
for approval?

(I am going over the documentation after reading your notes).

I have 3 last questions:

- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behaviour. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own
his project. Correct?

- Can it be that managed periods have something to do with my resource
managers inability to see the timesheets updated by the resources they
manage?
We had decided not to use Managed periods, because tracing here is not
done on a periodic fixed duration basis. So I was hoping I could avoid
maintaining them.

Is is necessary for me to define the managed periods?

- If it is necessary to define the managed periods. Can you estimate
if there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects? (aside from making
them report at least to project server on a periodic basis)?
I wodering if previous data (baselines, progress) is safe.
Should I start the periods from the begining of the project? Or make
one BIG period from teh beggining until Next Week, and then at regular
intervals into the future?

Again, Let me thank you very much for your time.

Best regards,
Santiago

Mata UY --

Although the documentation is essentially correct, you are misreading
what
is says, based on how Project Server 2003 actually works. You need to
understand that the timesheet approval system in Project Server 2003 is
very
weak. Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved
the
updates. That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process. Yes? Furthermore, your desire for a hierarchical timesheet
approval system just isn't there. As you read, one resource manager can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical. One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.

If you really want this type of timesheet approval functionality, you
need
to upgrade your system to Project Server 2007, which has a built-in
Timesheet system in which users can submit all types of time (project
work,
non-project work, and nonworking time such as vacation) to their resource
managers, and submit task updates on task work only to their project
managers. And in the Project Server 2007, it is possible to set up a
hierarchical "chain" of timesheet approvers.

But, I think you should know that what you are trying to do with Project
Server 2003 just isn't going to work. Sorry for the bad news, but you
are
using a system that is now 7 years old, and which will soon be two
generations behind in technology. Hope this helps.

Dear Dale,

Thank you for your replay.

I was a bit taken by surprice by your replay.
Let my walk you thourgh my reasoning:

From the resopurce managers guide:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713771033.aspx

The following table lists the Microsoft Office Project Server 2003
permissions that are required for Microsoft Office Project
Professional 2003 and Microsoft Office Project Web Access 2003 users
to work with timesheets.

Permission Type Permission Description
Category Approve Timesheets for Resources Allows a resource manager to
approve a team member's submitted timesheet entries.
Category Adjust Actuals Determines the timesheets that are available
on the Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access.
Global Timesheet Approval Allows resource managers to access the
Approve Timesheets page in Project Web Access and approve their team
members' timesheets.
Global View Adjust Actuals Allows resource managers to access the
Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access and modify a team member's
submitted (and approved) timesheet entries.

In page:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713801033.aspx

"If more than one person is approving a timesheet, the last person to
approve or reject the same timesheet overwrites any previous approvals
or rejections of the timesheet."

Then it goes on to explain the mechanism.

So from the IT documentation it seems it is posible to have a
hierarchcal timesheet approval system.

Maybe it is that I am approaching it the wrong way.

Any alternatives you can think of? what I am trying to achive is to
privide with two levels of control for timeheet approval. The
Orgnaization´s project have

Best REgards,
Santiago

On Mar 25, 1:02 pm, "Dale Howard [MVP]"
<dale[dot]howard[at]msprojectexperts[dot]com> wrote:
Mata UY --

Approval of task updates does not follow RBS security constructs.
Instead,
task updates always go to the project manager of the project in which
the
team member is submitting the updates. In Project Server 2003, there
is
no
way to force the system to send task updates to the team member's
resource
manager for initial approval, and then on to the project manager for
final
approval. Task updates go directly to the project manager for
approval.
Hope this helps.

Dear all,

I have the following situation with a Project server
2003ndeployment.

The Timesheet approval is not following the organizational structure
defined in the RBS. I have checked and resource managers have the
required permissions (Approve Timesheets, and Global view
timesheet).

Organization RBS is hierarchical. 7 ongoing Projects when the
organization decided they neded herarchical approval of timesheets.

When Team members submit a timesheet, approval goes directly to the
project owner. Neither to the Resource Manager (with a RBS =
ORg.ProjectX.TeamX) nor to the PM (unless he is the project owner).

Any ideas what else I should check?
I tried creating a parallel RBS:
Test.ProjectX.TeamX.Member
Created a new project with new resources that belong to this
parallel
structure.
Project owner is the Administrator. Project leader is defined in the
RBS.
With but had the same results, approval goes to the Administrator
user.

Any feedback or pointers are welcome.

Best regards,
Santiago- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Mata UY]

OK, Thanks a lot.

Mata UY --

You are really stretching my memory, as I haven't touched Project Server
2003 more than a few times in the last three years.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet for
approval?

Answer #1:  Have you actually enabled the Timesheet Approval feature in
Project Server 2003?  In the Permissions data grid on the Server
Configuration page, I believe you need to set BOTH the timesheet approval
permission and the managed time periods permission to Allow.  Start with the
timesheet approval permission and see if the system forces you to select the
other permission.  Assuming your resource managers are members of the
Resource Managers security group, they should now be able to see pending
timesheets for approval.

Answer #2:  Ask your RMs to click the Timesheet link in the main content
area of the Home page.  The system displays the Approve Timesheets pagein
PWA.  On this page, they can now approve pending timesheets.

I have 3 last questions:

#1 -- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behavior. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own his
project. Correct?

Answer:  Yes.

#2 -- ...is it necessary for me to define the managed periods?

Answer:  Like I said, my memory is REALLY hazy at this point, but yes, I
believe that if you want to use the timesheet approval process, you must
also use the Managed Time Periods feature.

#3 -- If it is necessary to define the managed periods, an you estimate if
there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects...

Answer:  The impact will not be to the projects; instead, it will be tothe
team members and the project managers, who will probably get very irritated
by the feature.  I believe you will find the Managed Time Period process
VERY RESTRICTIVE and probably not worth the bother.  Only you can decide
whether it is worth it.

Beyond this, I would STRONGLY encourage you to purchase both of our
company's books on Project Server 2003.  These books would have answered all
of your questions, and I think you will find them a valuable reference as
you move forward.  You can purchase them at:

http://projectserverbooks.com/books/project2003books.aspx

Hope this helps.

I understand.

Actually, I think I can work arround the limitations of the
technology. Updating is not a feasible solution at least until the
following year.

You said:
Correct, so these guys are just gonna need to pick up the phone and
get aquainted. So I can live with that too.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet
for approval?

(I am going over the documentation after reading your notes).

I have 3 last questions:

- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behaviour. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own
his project. Correct?

- Can it be that managed periods have something to do with my resource
managers inability to see the timesheets updated by the resources they
manage?
We had decided not to use Managed periods, because tracing here is not
done on a periodic fixed duration basis. So I was hoping I could avoid
maintaining them.

Is is necessary for me to define the managed periods?

- If it is necessary to define the managed periods. Can you estimate
if there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects? (aside from making
them report at least to project server on a periodic basis)?
I wodering if previous data (baselines, progress) is safe.
Should I start the periods from the begining of the project? Or make
one BIG period from teh beggining until Next Week, and then at regular
intervals into the future?

Again, Let me thank you very much for your time.

Best regards,
Santiago

Mata UY --
Although the documentation is essentially correct, you are misreading
what
is says, based on how Project Server 2003 actually works.  You need to
understand that the timesheet approval system in Project Server 2003 is
very
weak.  Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved
the
updates.  That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process.  Yes?  Furthermore, your desire for a hierarchical timesheet
approval system just isn't there.  As you read, one resource managercan
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical.  One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.
If you really want this type of timesheet approval functionality, you
need
to upgrade your system to Project Server 2007, which has a built-in
Timesheet system in which users can submit all types of time (project
work,
non-project work, and nonworking time such as vacation) to their resource
managers, and submit task updates on task work only to their project
managers.  And in the Project Server 2007, it is possible to set up a
hierarchical "chain" of timesheet approvers.
But, I think you should know that what you are trying to do with Project
Server 2003 just isn't going to work.  Sorry for the bad news, but you
are
using a system that is now 7 years old, and which will soon be two
generations behind in technology.  Hope this helps.


Dear Dale,
Thank you for your replay.
I was a bit taken by surprice by your replay.
Let my walk you thourgh my reasoning:
From the resopurce managers guide:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713771033.aspx
The following table lists the Microsoft Office Project Server 2003
permissions that are required for Microsoft Office Project
Professional 2003 and Microsoft Office Project Web Access 2003 users
to work with timesheets.
Permission Type Permission Description
Category Approve Timesheets for Resources Allows a resource manager to
approve a team member's submitted timesheet entries.
Category Adjust Actuals Determines the timesheets that are available
on the Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access.
Global Timesheet Approval Allows resource managers to access the
Approve Timesheets page in Project Web Access and approve their team
members' timesheets.
Global View Adjust Actuals Allows resource managers to access the
Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access and modify a team member's
submitted (and approved) timesheet entries.
In page:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713801033.aspx
"If more than one person is approving a timesheet, the last person to
approve or reject the same timesheet overwrites any previous approvals
or rejections of the timesheet."
Then it goes on to explain the mechanism.
So from the IT documentation it seems it is posible to have a
hierarchcal timesheet approval system.
Maybe it is that I am approaching it the wrong way.
Any alternatives you can think of? what I am trying to achive is to
privide with two levels of control for timeheet approval. The
Orgnaization´s project have
Best REgards,
Santiago
On Mar 25, 1:02 pm, "Dale Howard [MVP]"
<dale[dot]howard[at]msprojectexperts[dot]com> wrote:
Mata UY --
Approval of task updates does not follow RBS security constructs.
Instead,
task updates always go to the project manager of the project in which
the
team member is submitting the updates.  In Project Server 2003, there
is
no
way to force the system to send task updates to the team member's
resource
manager for initial approval, and then on to the project manager for
final
approval.  Task updates go directly to the project manager for
approval.
Hope this helps.


Dear all,
I have the following situation with a Project server
2003ndeployment.
The Timesheet approval is not following the

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Dale Howard [MVP]]

Mata UY --

You are more than welcome, my friend!

OK, Thanks a lot.

Mata UY --

You are really stretching my memory, as I haven't touched Project Server
2003 more than a few times in the last three years.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet for
approval?

Answer #1: Have you actually enabled the Timesheet Approval feature in
Project Server 2003? In the Permissions data grid on the Server
Configuration page, I believe you need to set BOTH the timesheet approval
permission and the managed time periods permission to Allow. Start with
the
timesheet approval permission and see if the system forces you to select
the
other permission. Assuming your resource managers are members of the
Resource Managers security group, they should now be able to see pending
timesheets for approval.

Answer #2: Ask your RMs to click the Timesheet link in the main content
area of the Home page. The system displays the Approve Timesheets page
in
PWA. On this page, they can now approve pending timesheets.

I have 3 last questions:

#1 -- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly
to
the project owner, and that is the expected behavior. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own his
project. Correct?

Answer: Yes.

#2 -- ...is it necessary for me to define the managed periods?

Answer: Like I said, my memory is REALLY hazy at this point, but yes, I
believe that if you want to use the timesheet approval process, you must
also use the Managed Time Periods feature.

#3 -- If it is necessary to define the managed periods, an you estimate
if
there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects...

Answer: The impact will not be to the projects; instead, it will be to
the
team members and the project managers, who will probably get very
irritated
by the feature. I believe you will find the Managed Time Period process
VERY RESTRICTIVE and probably not worth the bother. Only you can decide
whether it is worth it.

Beyond this, I would STRONGLY encourage you to purchase both of our
company's books on Project Server 2003. These books would have answered
all
of your questions, and I think you will find them a valuable reference as
you move forward. You can purchase them at:

http://projectserverbooks.com/books/project2003books.aspx

Hope this helps.

I understand.

Actually, I think I can work arround the limitations of the
technology. Updating is not a feasible solution at least until the
following year.

You said:
Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project
manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved
the
updates. That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process. Yes?
I can live with that.

As you read, one resource manager can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical. One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.
Correct, so these guys are just gonna need to pick up the phone and
get aquainted. So I can live with that too.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet
for approval?

(I am going over the documentation after reading your notes).

I have 3 last questions:

- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behaviour. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own
his project. Correct?

- Can it be that managed periods have something to do with my resource
managers inability to see the timesheets updated by the resources they
manage?
We had decided not to use Managed periods, because tracing here is not
done on a periodic fixed duration basis. So I was hoping I could avoid
maintaining them.

Is is necessary for me to define the managed periods?

- If it is necessary to define the managed periods. Can you estimate
if there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects? (aside from making
them report at least to project server on a periodic basis)?
I wodering if previous data (baselines, progress) is safe.
Should I start the periods from the begining of the project? Or make
one BIG period from teh beggining until Next Week, and then at regular
intervals into the future?

Again, Let me thank you very much for your time.

Best regards,
Santiago

On Mar 25, 3:11 pm, "Dale Howard [MVP]"
<dale[dot]howard[at]msprojectexperts[dot]com> wrote:
Mata UY --

Although the documentation is essentially correct, you are misreading
what
is says, based on how Project Server 2003 actually works. You need to
understand that the timesheet approval system in Project Server 2003
is
very
weak. Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project
manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved
the
updates. That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process. Yes? Furthermore, your desire for a hierarchical timesheet
approval system just isn't there. As you read, one resource manager
can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical. One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.

If you really want this type of timesheet approval functionality, you
need
to upgrade your system to Project Server 2007, which has a built-in
Timesheet system in which users can submit all types of time (project
work,
non-project work, and nonworking time such as vacation) to their
resource
managers, and submit task updates on task work only to their project
managers. And in the Project Server 2007, it is possible to set up a
hierarchical "chain" of timesheet approvers.

But, I think you should know that what you are trying to do with
Project
Server 2003 just isn't going to work. Sorry for the bad news, but you
are
using a system that is now 7 years old, and which will soon be two
generations behind in technology. Hope this helps.

Dear Dale,

Thank you for your replay.

I was a bit taken by surprice by your replay.
Let my walk you thourgh my reasoning:

From the resopurce managers guide:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713771033.aspx

The following table lists the Microsoft Office Project Server 2003
permissions that are required for Microsoft Office Project
Professional 2003 and Microsoft Office Project Web Access 2003 users
to work with timesheets.

Permission Type Permission Description
Category Approve Timesheets for Resources Allows a resource manager
to
approve a team member's submitted timesheet entries.
Category Adjust Actuals Determines the timesheets that are available
on the Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access.
Global Timesheet Approval Allows resource managers to access the
Approve Timesheets page in Project Web Access and approve their team
members' timesheets.
Global View Adjust Actuals Allows resource managers to access the
Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access and modify a team member's
submitted (and approved) timesheet entries.

In page:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713801033.aspx

"If more than one person is approving a timesheet, the last person
to
approve or reject the same timesheet overwrites any previous
approvals
or rejections of the timesheet."

Then it goes on to explain the mechanism.

So from the IT documentation it seems it is posible to have a
hierarchcal timesheet approval system.

Maybe it is that I am approaching it the wrong way.

Any alternatives you can think of? what I am trying to achive is to
privide with two levels of control for timeheet approval. The
Orgnaization´s project have

Best REgards,
Santiago

On Mar 25, 1:02 pm, "Dale Howard [MVP]"
<dale[dot]howard[at]msprojectexperts[dot]com> wrote:
Mata UY --

Approval of task updates does not follow RBS security constructs.
Instead,
task updates always go to the project manager of the project in
which
the
team member is submitting the updates. In Project Server 2003,
there
is
no
way to force the system to send task updates to the team member's
resource
manager for initial approval, and then on to the project manager
for
final
approval. Task updates go directly to the project manager for
approval.
Hope this helps.

Dear all,

I have the following situation with a Project server
2003ndeployment.

The Timesheet approval is not following the

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Mata UY]

Dear dale,

sorry to keep going with this. But I've been going at it all day now.

I have changed the configuration, but behaivour is not exactly as
expected.
I have set managed periods (for the moment, only two periods).
And did the republishing of project as instructed by the
documentation.

I now have the follwing two scenarios:
- Publication is donde by the project owner.
Resource managers do not see the timesheets submited by resources.

- If I allow the Resource manager to publish.
Both Project Owner and Resource Managers see the pending Timesheet.
But approval Is done by the first one how gets to it.


On a side note, I have also noticed some difference between the
Printcreens of the documentation and my PWA. for instance.
Notifications arrive under a group called update. While in the
documentation the group is called Timesheet.

Regards,
Santiago

Mata UY --

You are really stretching my memory, as I haven't touched Project Server
2003 more than a few times in the last three years.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet for
approval?

Answer #1:  Have you actually enabled the Timesheet Approval feature in
Project Server 2003?  In the Permissions data grid on the Server
Configuration page, I believe you need to set BOTH the timesheet approval
permission and the managed time periods permission to Allow.  Start with the
timesheet approval permission and see if the system forces you to select the
other permission.  Assuming your resource managers are members of the
Resource Managers security group, they should now be able to see pending
timesheets for approval.

Answer #2:  Ask your RMs to click the Timesheet link in the main content
area of the Home page.  The system displays the Approve Timesheets pagein
PWA.  On this page, they can now approve pending timesheets.

I have 3 last questions:

#1 -- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behavior. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own his
project. Correct?

Answer:  Yes.

#2 -- ...is it necessary for me to define the managed periods?

Answer:  Like I said, my memory is REALLY hazy at this point, but yes, I
believe that if you want to use the timesheet approval process, you must
also use the Managed Time Periods feature.

#3 -- If it is necessary to define the managed periods, an you estimate if
there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects...

Answer:  The impact will not be to the projects; instead, it will be tothe
team members and the project managers, who will probably get very irritated
by the feature.  I believe you will find the Managed Time Period process
VERY RESTRICTIVE and probably not worth the bother.  Only you can decide
whether it is worth it.

Beyond this, I would STRONGLY encourage you to purchase both of our
company's books on Project Server 2003.  These books would have answered all
of your questions, and I think you will find them a valuable reference as
you move forward.  You can purchase them at:

http://projectserverbooks.com/books/project2003books.aspx

Hope this helps.

I understand.

Actually, I think I can work arround the limitations of the
technology. Updating is not a feasible solution at least until the
following year.

You said:
Correct, so these guys are just gonna need to pick up the phone and
get aquainted. So I can live with that too.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet
for approval?

(I am going over the documentation after reading your notes).

I have 3 last questions:

- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behaviour. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own
his project. Correct?

- Can it be that managed periods have something to do with my resource
managers inability to see the timesheets updated by the resources they
manage?
We had decided not to use Managed periods, because tracing here is not
done on a periodic fixed duration basis. So I was hoping I could avoid
maintaining them.

Is is necessary for me to define the managed periods?

- If it is necessary to define the managed periods. Can you estimate
if there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects? (aside from making
them report at least to project server on a periodic basis)?
I wodering if previous data (baselines, progress) is safe.
Should I start the periods from the begining of the project? Or make
one BIG period from teh beggining until Next Week, and then at regular
intervals into the future?

Again, Let me thank you very much for your time.

Best regards,
Santiago

Mata UY --
Although the documentation is essentially correct, you are misreading
what
is says, based on how Project Server 2003 actually works.  You need to
understand that the timesheet approval system in Project Server 2003 is
very
weak.  Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved
the
updates.  That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process.  Yes?  Furthermore, your desire for a hierarchical timesheet
approval system just isn't there.  As you read, one resource managercan
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical.  One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.
If you really want this type of timesheet approval functionality, you
need
to upgrade your system to Project Server 2007, which has a built-in
Timesheet system in which users can submit all types of time (project
work,
non-project work, and nonworking time such as vacation) to their resource
managers, and submit task updates on task work only to their project
managers.  And in the Project Server 2007, it is possible to set up a
hierarchical "chain" of timesheet approvers.
But, I think you should know that what you are trying to do with Project
Server 2003 just isn't going to work.  Sorry for the bad news, but you
are
using a system that is now 7 years old, and which will soon be two
generations behind in technology.  Hope this helps.


Dear Dale,
Thank you for your replay.
I was a bit taken by surprice by your replay.
Let my walk you thourgh my reasoning:
From the resopurce managers guide:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713771033.aspx
The following table lists the Microsoft Office Project Server 2003
permissions that are required for Microsoft Office Project
Professional 2003 and Microsoft Office Project Web Access 2003 users
to work with timesheets.
Permission Type Permission Description
Category Approve Timesheets for Resources Allows a resource manager to
approve a team member's submitted timesheet entries.
Category Adjust Actuals Determines the timesheets that are available
on the Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access.
Global Timesheet Approval Allows resource managers to access the
Approve Timesheets page in Project Web Access and approve their team
members' timesheets.
Global View Adjust Actuals Allows resource managers to access the
Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access and modify a team member's
submitted (and approved) timesheet entries.
In page:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713801033.aspx
"If more than one person is approving a timesheet, the last person to
approve or reject the same timesheet overwrites any previous approvals
or rejections of the timesheet."
Then it goes on to explain the mechanism.
So from the IT documentation it seems it is posible to have a
hierarchcal timesheet approval system.
Maybe it is that I am approaching it the wrong way.
Any alternatives you can think of? what I am trying to achive is to
privide with two levels of control for timeheet approval. The
Orgnaization´s project have
Best REgards,
Santiago
On Mar 25, 1:02 pm, "Dale Howard [MVP]"
<dale[dot]howard[at]msprojectexperts[dot]com> wrote:
Mata UY --
Approval of task updates does not follow RBS security constructs.
Instead,
task updates always go to the project manager of the project in which
the
team member is submitting the updates.  In Project Server 2003, there
is
no
way to force the system to send task updates to the team member's
resource
manager for initial approval, and then on to the project manager for
final
approval.  Task updates go directly to the project manager for
approval.
Hope this helps.


Dear all,
I have the following situation with a Project server
2003ndeployment.
The Timesheet approval is not following the

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Mata UY]

Dear Dale,

Just for closure... I found the error in the configuration.

somewhere along the line, the visibility for timesheet under Server
configuration/Features had been disabled.

The mising screen tipped me off.

Thanks agian for all your help.

Regards,
Santiago

Dear dale,

sorry to keep going with this. But I've been going at it all day now.

I have changed the configuration, but behaivour is not exactly as
expected.
I have set managed periods (for the moment, only two periods).
And did the republishing of project as instructed by the
documentation.

I now have the follwing two scenarios:
- Publication is donde by the project owner.
Resource managers do not see the timesheets submited by resources.

- If I allow the Resource manager to publish.
Both Project Owner and Resource Managers see the pending Timesheet.
But approval Is done by the first one how gets to it.

On a side note, I have also noticed some difference between the
Printcreens of the documentation and my PWA. for instance.
Notifications arrive under a group called update. While in the
documentation the group is called Timesheet.

Regards,
Santiago

Mata UY --

You are really stretching my memory, as I haven't touched Project Server
2003 more than a few times in the last three years.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet for
approval?

Answer #1:  Have you actually enabled the Timesheet Approval feature in
Project Server 2003?  In the Permissions data grid on the Server
Configuration page, I believe you need to set BOTH the timesheet approval
permission and the managed time periods permission to Allow.  Start with the
timesheet approval permission and see if the system forces you to select the
other permission.  Assuming your resource managers are members of the
Resource Managers security group, they should now be able to see pending
timesheets for approval.

Answer #2:  Ask your RMs to click the Timesheet link in the main content
area of the Home page.  The system displays the Approve Timesheets page in
PWA.  On this page, they can now approve pending timesheets.

I have 3 last questions:

#1 -- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directlyto
the project owner, and that is the expected behavior. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own his
project. Correct?

Answer:  Yes.

#2 -- ...is it necessary for me to define the managed periods?

Answer:  Like I said, my memory is REALLY hazy at this point, but yes, I
believe that if you want to use the timesheet approval process, you must
also use the Managed Time Periods feature.

#3 -- If it is necessary to define the managed periods, an you estimateif
there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects...

Answer:  The impact will not be to the projects; instead, it will be to the
team members and the project managers, who will probably get very irritated
by the feature.  I believe you will find the Managed Time Period process
VERY RESTRICTIVE and probably not worth the bother.  Only you can decide
whether it is worth it.

Beyond this, I would STRONGLY encourage you to purchase both of our
company's books on Project Server 2003.  These books would have answered all
of your questions, and I think you will find them a valuable reference as
you move forward.  You can purchase them at:

Hope this helps.

news:2f4ca9b5-82fe-4676-bf90-050e24dd649c@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com....

I understand.
Actually, I think I can work arround the limitations of the
technology. Updating is not a feasible solution at least until the
following year.
You said:
Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved
the
updates.  That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process.  Yes?
I can live with that.
As you read, one resource manager can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical.  One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.
Correct, so these guys are just gonna need to pick up the phone and
get aquainted. So I can live with that too.
So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet
for approval?
(I am going over the documentation after reading your notes).
I have 3 last questions:
- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly to
the project owner, and that is the expected behaviour. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own
his project. Correct?
- Can it be that managed periods have something to do with my resource
managers inability to see the timesheets updated by the resources they
manage?
We had decided not to use Managed periods, because tracing here is not
done on a periodic fixed duration basis. So I was hoping I could avoid
maintaining them.
Is is necessary for me to define the managed periods?
- If it is necessary to define the managed periods. Can you estimate
if there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects? (aside from making
them report at least to project server on a periodic basis)?
I wodering if previous data (baselines, progress) is safe.
Should I start the periods from the begining of the project? Or make
one BIG period from teh beggining until Next Week, and then at regular
intervals into the future?
Again, Let me thank you very much for your time.
Best regards,
Santiago
On Mar 25, 3:11 pm, "Dale Howard [MVP]"
<dale[dot]howard[at]msprojectexperts[dot]com> wrote:
Mata UY --
Although the documentation is essentially correct, you are misreading
what
is says, based on how Project Server 2003 actually works.  You need to
understand that the timesheet approval system in Project Server 2003is
very
weak.  Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has approved
the
updates.  That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet approval
process.  Yes?  Furthermore, your desire for a hierarchical timesheet
approval system just isn't there.  As you read, one resource manager can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical.  One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.
If you really want this type of timesheet approval functionality, you
need
to upgrade your system to Project Server 2007, which has a built-in
Timesheet system in which users can submit all types of time (project
work,
non-project work, and nonworking time such as vacation) to their resource
managers, and submit task updates on task work only to their project
managers.  And in the Project Server 2007, it is possible to set up a
hierarchical "chain" of timesheet approvers.
But, I think you should know that what you are trying to do with Project
Server 2003 just isn't going to work.  Sorry for the bad news, butyou
are
using a system that is now 7 years old, and which will soon be two
generations behind in technology.  Hope this helps.


Dear Dale,
Thank you for your replay.
I was a bit taken by surprice by your replay.
Let my walk you thourgh my reasoning:
From the resopurce managers guide:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713771033.aspx
The following table lists the Microsoft Office Project Server 2003
permissions that are required for Microsoft Office Project
Professional 2003 and Microsoft Office Project Web Access 2003 users
to work with timesheets.
Permission Type Permission Description
Category Approve Timesheets for Resources Allows a resource manager to
approve a team member's submitted timesheet entries.
Category Adjust Actuals Determines the timesheets that are available
on the Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access.
Global Timesheet Approval Allows resource managers to access the
Approve Timesheets page in Project Web Access and approve their team
members' timesheets.
Global View Adjust Actuals Allows resource managers to access the
Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access and modify a team member's
submitted (and approved) timesheet entries.
In page:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713801033.aspx
"If more than one person is approving a timesheet, the last personto
approve or reject the same timesheet overwrites any previous approvals
or rejections of the timesheet."
Then it goes on to explain the mechanism.
So from the IT documentation it seems it is posible to have a
hierarchcal timesheet approval system.
Maybe it is that I am approaching it the wrong way.
Any alternatives you can think of? what I am trying to achive is to
privide with two levels of control for timeheet approval.

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Dale Howard [MVP]]

Santiago --

Necessity is the mother of invention. Thanks for finding the solution to
your own problem, and for sharing the answer with us! Way to go, my friend!

Dear Dale,

Just for closure... I found the error in the configuration.

somewhere along the line, the visibility for timesheet under Server
configuration/Features had been disabled.

The mising screen tipped me off.

Thanks agian for all your help.

Regards,
Santiago

Dear dale,

sorry to keep going with this. But I've been going at it all day now.

I have changed the configuration, but behaivour is not exactly as
expected.
I have set managed periods (for the moment, only two periods).
And did the republishing of project as instructed by the
documentation.

I now have the follwing two scenarios:
- Publication is donde by the project owner.
Resource managers do not see the timesheets submited by resources.

- If I allow the Resource manager to publish.
Both Project Owner and Resource Managers see the pending Timesheet.
But approval Is done by the first one how gets to it.

On a side note, I have also noticed some difference between the
Printcreens of the documentation and my PWA. for instance.
Notifications arrive under a group called update. While in the
documentation the group is called Timesheet.

Regards,
Santiago

Mata UY --

You are really stretching my memory, as I haven't touched Project
Server
2003 more than a few times in the last three years.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet
for
approval?

Answer #1: Have you actually enabled the Timesheet Approval feature in
Project Server 2003? In the Permissions data grid on the Server
Configuration page, I believe you need to set BOTH the timesheet
approval
permission and the managed time periods permission to Allow. Start
with the
timesheet approval permission and see if the system forces you to
select the
other permission. Assuming your resource managers are members of the
Resource Managers security group, they should now be able to see
pending
timesheets for approval.

Answer #2: Ask your RMs to click the Timesheet link in the main
content
area of the Home page. The system displays the Approve Timesheets page
in
PWA. On this page, they can now approve pending timesheets.

I have 3 last questions:

#1 -- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly
to
the project owner, and that is the expected behavior. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own his
project. Correct?

Answer: Yes.

#2 -- ...is it necessary for me to define the managed periods?

Answer: Like I said, my memory is REALLY hazy at this point, but yes,
I
believe that if you want to use the timesheet approval process, you
must
also use the Managed Time Periods feature.

#3 -- If it is necessary to define the managed periods, an you estimate
if
there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects...

Answer: The impact will not be to the projects; instead, it will be to
the
team members and the project managers, who will probably get very
irritated
by the feature. I believe you will find the Managed Time Period
process
VERY RESTRICTIVE and probably not worth the bother. Only you can
decide
whether it is worth it.

Beyond this, I would STRONGLY encourage you to purchase both of our
company's books on Project Server 2003. These books would have
answered all
of your questions, and I think you will find them a valuable reference
as
you move forward. You can purchase them at:

Hope this helps.

I understand.

Actually, I think I can work arround the limitations of the
technology. Updating is not a feasible solution at least until the
following year.

You said:
Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project
manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has
approved
the
updates. That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet
approval
process. Yes?
I can live with that.

As you read, one resource manager can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve
the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical. One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.
Correct, so these guys are just gonna need to pick up the phone and
get aquainted. So I can live with that too.

So still the question remains: How do I get them to see the Timesheet
for approval?

(I am going over the documentation after reading your notes).

I have 3 last questions:

- The first one is more of a confirmation. Updated task go directly
to
the project owner, and that is the expected behaviour. The PM is just
a one of the multiple resource managers. So Is best to have him own
his project. Correct?

- Can it be that managed periods have something to do with my
resource
managers inability to see the timesheets updated by the resources
they
manage?
We had decided not to use Managed periods, because tracing here is
not
done on a periodic fixed duration basis. So I was hoping I could
avoid
maintaining them.

Is is necessary for me to define the managed periods?

- If it is necessary to define the managed periods. Can you estimate
if there is any impact to the 7 ongoing projects? (aside from making
them report at least to project server on a periodic basis)?
I wodering if previous data (baselines, progress) is safe.
Should I start the periods from the begining of the project? Or make
one BIG period from teh beggining until Next Week, and then at
regular
intervals into the future?

Again, Let me thank you very much for your time.

Best regards,
Santiago

On Mar 25, 3:11 pm, "Dale Howard [MVP]"
<dale[dot]howard[at]msprojectexperts[dot]com> wrote:
Mata UY --

Although the documentation is essentially correct, you are
misreading
what
is says, based on how Project Server 2003 actually works. You need
to
understand that the timesheet approval system in Project Server 2003
is
very
weak. Although your resource managers can approve timesheets (time
submitted as task updates), the system does not PREVENT a project
manager
from accepting the task updates BEFORE a resource manager has
approved
the
updates. That probably defeats your purpose in the timesheet
approval
process. Yes? Furthermore, your desire for a hierarchical
timesheet
approval system just isn't there. As you read, one resource manager
can
approve the time, and then another resource manager can re-approve
the
time,
but that isn't hierarchical. One is simply overwriting the other's
approval.

If you really want this type of timesheet approval functionality,
you
need
to upgrade your system to Project Server 2007, which has a built-in
Timesheet system in which users can submit all types of time
(project
work,
non-project work, and nonworking time such as vacation) to their
resource
managers, and submit task updates on task work only to their project
managers. And in the Project Server 2007, it is possible to set up
a
hierarchical "chain" of timesheet approvers.

But, I think you should know that what you are trying to do with
Project
Server 2003 just isn't going to work. Sorry for the bad news, but
you
are
using a system that is now 7 years old, and which will soon be two
generations behind in technology. Hope this helps.

Dear Dale,

Thank you for your replay.

I was a bit taken by surprice by your replay.
Let my walk you thourgh my reasoning:

From the resopurce managers guide:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713771033.aspx

The following table lists the Microsoft Office Project Server 2003
permissions that are required for Microsoft Office Project
Professional 2003 and Microsoft Office Project Web Access 2003
users
to work with timesheets.

Permission Type Permission Description
Category Approve Timesheets for Resources Allows a resource
manager to
approve a team member's submitted timesheet entries.
Category Adjust Actuals Determines the timesheets that are
available
on the Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access.
Global Timesheet Approval Allows resource managers to access the
Approve Timesheets page in Project Web Access and approve their
team
members' timesheets.
Global View Adjust Actuals Allows resource managers to access the
Adjust Actuals page in Project Web Access and modify a team
member's
submitted (and approved) timesheet entries.

In page:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/projservadmin/HA011713801033.aspx

"If more than one person is approving a timesheet, the last person
to
approve or reject the same timesheet overwrites any previous
approvals
or rejections of the timesheet."

Then it goes on to explain the mechanism.

So from the IT documentation it seems it is posible to have a
hierarchcal timesheet approval system.

Maybe it is that I am approaching it the wrong way.

Any alternatives you can think of? what I am trying to achive is
to
privide with two levels of control for timeheet approval.

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -