Ranking of my site in search engines

[Peter Maddern]

I'm new to FrontPage and website crearion.............

My problem is that although I see that my new site (1 month old) is listed
in Google and the others about 2 weeks after I submitted it to a free search
engine submission service, it only shows up high in the search rankings if I
use a lot of the words from my site's TITLE in the search box. It doesn't
show up high in the rankings though if I search with the words that a
customer might use to find me (like the words I used as keywords in the
"PROPERTIES" form of my index page).

I contacted my web hosting company and they said they thought it's because
the hosting is Linux and it doesn't support FrontPage server extensions and
embedded objects. I imagine they're telling me that my index page
"properties" form is a FrontPage server extension embedded object.

I then went back and looked at the html code on my index page and in fact, I
do see all my keywords are listed near the top of my index page.

Is the fact that search engines don't give me a high ranking when I search
against my site's keywords perhaps to do with the fact that that according to
my stats page, I haven't been visited by any web spiders/robots yet? Maybe I
just need to sit tight and be patient! Like i say, I'm new to this and don't
know how everything operates.

Is being "listed" by the search engines just stage 1 in the process with
being crawled/analysed by the same search engines coming later? How long does
it typically take for a new site to get crawled/analysed?

 

[Steve Easton]

A lot of search engines ignore the keywords and just crawl the visible
text on the page.
Also, if the keywords and visible text don't match, the keywords are
ignored.

It has nothing to do with extensions.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

 

[Murray]

I contacted my web hosting company and they said they thought it's because

the hosting is Linux and it doesn't support FrontPage server extensions
and
embedded objects. I imagine they're telling me that my index page
"properties" form is a FrontPage server extension embedded object.

Your host is an incompetent liar. They know that this is nonsense.... I
would use this as a valid reason to change hosts. You are paying them for
much better support than this.

How long does
it typically take for a new site to get crawled/analysed?

It can take months.

As I understand it, the things that are most important to your page rank are
the following (in rough order of priority) -

1. The keywords used in the title of the page
2. The keywords used in the semantic markup on the page, e.g., <h1>, <h2>,
<h3>, etc.
3. The keywords used in the content on the page (with words appearing
"high" on the page having more impact than words appearing "low" on the
page)
4. The keywords appearing in links used on the page (that is in the
filenames of the linked pages/images)
5. Other context clues on the page, e.g., title or alt attributes, noframes
content, etc.

Meta tags are almost unimportant in your ranking.

If you think about it, the ranking depends on the actual page content; not
what you *say* the content is, but what it actually is.

Incoming links from other highly ranked pages can have a huge impact on your
ranking, as well. A link to your site from, say, a microsoft.com page could
shoot you over the moon!

Finally, don't bother with a site submission server anymore. You don't need
them. Just manually submit your site to Google, or MSN, or Yahoo, or dmoz,
and you'll show up everywhere sooner or later....

 

[Joe Rohn]

Finally, don't bother with a site submission server anymore. You don't
need them. Just manually submit your site to Google, or MSN, or Yahoo, or
dmoz, and you'll show up everywhere sooner or later....

Murray..or anyone..

Just wondering how people feel today about the Yahoo directory. Yahoo has
two major portions to it (Yahoo Web Sites and Yahoo Web Pages. You can get
free listings on Yahoo Web Pages..however you need to pay for a listing in
the Yahoo directory or Yahoo Web Sites) Hopefully I have said that right!


Anyways I am curious as to how much success people feel they have by paying
for a listing in the Yahoo Directory.

 

[P@tty Ayers]

As I understand it, the things that are most important to your page rank
are
the following (in rough order of priority) -

I would add, near the top of the list:

- The number of incoming links from other sites (link popularity).

 

[Murray]

I wouldn't. If those incoming links are from sites with low index ranks,
they won't help you at all, I believe. And, in fact, I'm led to believe
that giving the appearance of being a participant in a web-ring arrangement
can actually penalize you.

Incoming links for highly ranked sites IS important (or seems to be), and I
did list that one....

 

[P@tty Ayers]

I wouldn't. If those incoming links are from sites with low index ranks,

they won't help you at all, I believe. And, in fact, I'm led to believe
that giving the appearance of being a participant in a web-ring arrangement
can actually penalize you.

Well, I would. Of course, I mean good-quality links done in a
non-link-farm manner.

Incoming links for highly ranked sites IS important (or seems to be), and
I did list that one....

I hadn't noticed your mention of it later in your post, sorry.

 

[Peter Maddern]

On the question of being ranked highly against keywords, I'm picking from all
your replies up that just being listed on a search engine is one thing but
this is not the same as your site being actually crawled and analysed by the
same search engine and that the latter can take months. Do I have that
correct?

 

[Murray]

No. You aren't listed without being crawled. Sounds kinky....

--
Murray
============

On the question of being ranked highly against keywords, I'm picking from
all
your replies up that just being listed on a search engine is one thing but
this is not the same as your site being actually crawled and analysed by
the
same search engine and that the latter can take months. Do I have that
correct?

 

[Peter Maddern]

Then I'm at a loss to know what's going on i.e. why only my site's title
words are any good in a search to reveal my site. Are there any MS MVP's or
FrontPage experts out there who are willing to take a look at the keyword
listings in the code in my index page and tell me why my site's keywords
don't seem to bring up my site in a search?

www.speechempoweredcomputing.co.uk
--
Peter

No. You aren't listed without being crawled. Sounds kinky....

--
Murray
============

On the question of being ranked highly against keywords, I'm picking from
all
your replies up that just being listed on a search engine is one thing but
this is not the same as your site being actually crawled and analysed by
the
same search engine and that the latter can take months. Do I have that
correct?

 

[Steve Easton]

1. Google for one ignores keywords and spiders page content.
2. Too many keywords, 25 is supposedly the max.
3. The keywords don't match the visible page content.
When spiders that crawl keywords see this, they reject all of the
keywords.


--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed..................
...............................with a computer

Then I'm at a loss to know what's going on i.e. why only my site's title
words are any good in a search to reveal my site. Are there any MS MVP's or
FrontPage experts out there who are willing to take a look at the keyword
listings in the code in my index page and tell me why my site's keywords
don't seem to bring up my site in a search?

www.speechempoweredcomputing.co.uk
--
Peter

No. You aren't listed without being crawled. Sounds kinky....

 

[Tom Pepper Willett]

Peter: The keywords are very, very common words used by tens of thousands
of other sites. There is nothing to set you apart from the pack. that's
why there is more to ranking in the search engines than just keywords.
--
===
Tom "Pepper" Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
About FrontPage 2003:
http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
How to ask a newsgroup question:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
===
| Then I'm at a loss to know what's going on i.e. why only my site's title
| words are any good in a search to reveal my site. Are there any MS MVP's
or
| FrontPage experts out there who are willing to take a look at the keyword
| listings in the code in my index page and tell me why my site's keywords
| don't seem to bring up my site in a search?
|
| www.speechempoweredcomputing.co.uk
| --
| Peter
|
|
| "Murray" wrote:
|
| > No. You aren't listed without being crawled. Sounds kinky....
| >
| > --
| > Murray
| > ============
| >
| > | > > On the question of being ranked highly against keywords, I'm picking
from
| > > all
| > > your replies up that just being listed on a search engine is one thing
but
| > > this is not the same as your site being actually crawled and analysed
by
| > > the
| > > same search engine and that the latter can take months. Do I have that
| > > correct?
| > > --
| > > Peter
| > >
| > >
| > > "P@tty Ayers" wrote:
| > >
| > >> >I wouldn't. If those incoming links are from sites with low index
| > >> >ranks,
| > >> >they won't help you at all, I believe. And, in fact, I'm led to
believe
| > >> >that giving the appearance of being a participant in a web-ring
| > >> >arrangement
| > >> >can actually penalize you.
| > >>
| > >> Well, I would. Of course, I mean good-quality links done in a
| > >> non-link-farm manner.
| > >>
| > >> > Incoming links for highly ranked sites IS important (or seems to
be),
| > >> > and
| > >> > I did list that one....
| > >>
| > >> I hadn't noticed your mention of it later in your post, sorry.
| > >>
| > >>
| > >> --
| > >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| > >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| > >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
| > >> --
| > >>
| > >>
| > >>
| >
| >
| >

 

[Don Dean]

Steve,
I've read many articles on keywords and ranking, and one thing I haven't
been able to get a solid grip on is how many keywords is too many. I read
one article that said don't go over 1024 keywords.

I've checked out Googles' Information for Webmaster's page and they don't
give any specific max number. I even emailed the question to Google support
and they only responded with a form letter that addressed some ranking
issues, but didn't answer my question.

Where did you get the 25 number.
--
Don
*********

1. Google for one ignores keywords and spiders page content.
2. Too many keywords, 25 is supposedly the max.
3. The keywords don't match the visible page content.
When spiders that crawl keywords see this, they reject all of the
keywords.


--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed..................
...............................with a computer

Then I'm at a loss to know what's going on i.e. why only my site's title
words are any good in a search to reveal my site. Are there any MS MVP's or
FrontPage experts out there who are willing to take a look at the keyword
listings in the code in my index page and tell me why my site's keywords
don't seem to bring up my site in a search?

www.speechempoweredcomputing.co.uk

 

[P@tty Ayers]

Steve,
I've read many articles on keywords and ranking, and one thing I haven't
been able to get a solid grip on is how many keywords is too many. I read
one article that said don't go over 1024 keywords.

Meta keywords are mostly ignored by search engines these days, so I wouldn't
worry too much about it.

But if you do include meta keywords, I think common sense will help. The
point is to provide a list of words which succinctly describe the main
subjects covered by the web site - how many do you really need? I was once
advised (I think by the Web Position Gold people) to keep it down to about
7-10, which is pretty logical.

 

[Steve Easton]

Way back when I created my first web site, and submitted it to either
Google or Yahoo
there was a "recommendation to limit it to 25 keywords.
I used it as a rule ever since.

Also, did the article say 1024 keywords, or 1024 letters.??

1024 "words" seems pretty extreme.

fwiw, I don't even use keywords anymore on a lot of my pages.

I use a viable page title in the Title tag and then let the spiders
crawl the page for the rest.

You will note that the first line Google returns is the page title.

Do a Google search for: FP Cleaner
and you'll see what I mean.


--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed..................
...............................with a computer

 

[Tom Pepper Willett]

It was 1024 letters, including spaces and commas.
--
===
Tom "Pepper" Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
About FrontPage 2003:
http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
How to ask a newsgroup question:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
===
| Way back when I created my first web site, and submitted it to either
| Google or Yahoo
| there was a "recommendation to limit it to 25 keywords.
| I used it as a rule ever since.
|
| Also, did the article say 1024 keywords, or 1024 letters.??
|
| 1024 "words" seems pretty extreme.
|
| fwiw, I don't even use keywords anymore on a lot of my pages.
|
| I use a viable page title in the Title tag and then let the spiders
| crawl the page for the rest.
|
| You will note that the first line Google returns is the page title.
|
| Do a Google search for: FP Cleaner
| and you'll see what I mean.
|
|
| --
| Steve Easton
| Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| 95isalive
| This site is best viewed..................
| ..............................with a computer
|
| | > Steve,
| > I've read many articles on keywords and ranking, and one thing I
| haven't
| > been able to get a solid grip on is how many keywords is too many. I
| read
| > one article that said don't go over 1024 keywords.
| >
| > I've checked out Googles' Information for Webmaster's page and they
| don't
| > give any specific max number. I even emailed the question to Google
| support
| > and they only responded with a form letter that addressed some ranking
| > issues, but didn't answer my question.
| >
| > Where did you get the 25 number.
| > --
| > Don
| > *********
| >
| >
| > "Steve Easton" wrote:
| >
| > > 1. Google for one ignores keywords and spiders page content.
| > > 2. Too many keywords, 25 is supposedly the max.
| > > 3. The keywords don't match the visible page content.
| > > When spiders that crawl keywords see this, they reject all of the
| > > keywords.
| > >
| > >
| > > --
| > > Steve Easton
| > > Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| > > 95isalive
| > > This site is best viewed..................
| > > ...............................with a computer
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > | > > > Then I'm at a loss to know what's going on i.e. why only my site's
| > > title
| > > > words are any good in a search to reveal my site. Are there any MS
| > > MVP's or
| > > > FrontPage experts out there who are willing to take a look at the
| > > keyword
| > > > listings in the code in my index page and tell me why my site's
| > > keywords
| > > > don't seem to bring up my site in a search?
| > > >
| > > > www.speechempoweredcomputing.co.uk
| > > > --
| > > > Peter
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > "Murray" wrote:
| > > >
| > > > > No. You aren't listed without being crawled. Sounds kinky....
| > > > >
| > > > > --
| > > > > Murray
| > > > > ============
| > > > >
| > > > > | > > > > > On the question of being ranked highly against keywords, I'm
| > > picking from
| > > > > > all
| > > > > > your replies up that just being listed on a search engine is
| one
| > > thing but
| > > > > > this is not the same as your site being actually crawled and
| > > analysed by
| > > > > > the
| > > > > > same search engine and that the latter can take months. Do I
| have
| > > that
| > > > > > correct?
| > > > > > --
| > > > > > Peter
| > > > > >
| > > > > >
| > > > > > "P@tty Ayers" wrote:
| > > > > >
| > > > > >> >I wouldn't. If those incoming links are from sites with low
| > > index
| > > > > >> >ranks,
| > > > > >> >they won't help you at all, I believe. And, in fact, I'm
| led to
| > > believe
| > > > > >> >that giving the appearance of being a participant in a
| web-ring
| > > > > >> >arrangement
| > > > > >> >can actually penalize you.
| > > > > >>
| > > > > >> Well, I would. Of course, I mean good-quality links
| done in
| > > a
| > > > > >> non-link-farm manner.
| > > > > >>
| > > > > >> > Incoming links for highly ranked sites IS important (or
| seems
| > > to be),
| > > > > >> > and
| > > > > >> > I did list that one....
| > > > > >>
| > > > > >> I hadn't noticed your mention of it later in your post,
| sorry.
| > > > > >>
| > > > > >>
| > > > > >> --
| > > > > >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| > > > > >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| > > > > >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate
| Worksheet
| > > > > >> --
| > > > > >>
| > > > > >>
| > > > > >>
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
|
|

 

[Don Dean]

Thanks Steve.
Yeh, I meant 1024 characters. My brain slipped a cog when I was typing it
out.
--
Don
*********

Way back when I created my first web site, and submitted it to either
Google or Yahoo
there was a "recommendation to limit it to 25 keywords.
I used it as a rule ever since.

Also, did the article say 1024 keywords, or 1024 letters.??

1024 "words" seems pretty extreme.

fwiw, I don't even use keywords anymore on a lot of my pages.

I use a viable page title in the Title tag and then let the spiders
crawl the page for the rest.

You will note that the first line Google returns is the page title.

Do a Google search for: FP Cleaner
and you'll see what I mean.


--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed..................
...............................with a computer

Steve,
I've read many articles on keywords and ranking, and one thing I haven't
been able to get a solid grip on is how many keywords is too many. I read
one article that said don't go over 1024 keywords.

I've checked out Googles' Information for Webmaster's page and they don't
give any specific max number. I even emailed the question to Google support
and they only responded with a form letter that addressed some ranking
issues, but didn't answer my question.

Where did you get the 25 number.

 

[Don Dean]

That's right Tom. Thanks for the correction.
I don't remember where I saw the article. Did you write it?
What do you think about the validity of the 1024 limit?