Resources = Rates

J

Jason

Has anyone had the need to have available at one time (for a resource) more
than five (5) “rates�

Within the “Resource Information†box, in the “Costs†tab, you have access
from (A to E). If I have a consultant who is working seven (7) jobs, each job
needs a different rate. Is there a way to accomplish this?

Thanks, Jason
 
M

Mike Glen

Hi Jason,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup :)

I don't think you can get more than the 5 on offer. If you remember that
these rates are not wages, but the cost of using that resource to the
project, and includes overheads, sickness, holiday, etc. Thus, I sugest you
make some generalizations and combine the nearest two rates, and another two
to keep within the five rates.

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on :)

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for Project Tutorials
 
J

Jason

Thanks Glen, we are using the cost/ rates as what we charge to the client. I
just was not sure if anyone else had a creative work around for additional
rates.

Thannks, Jason
 
K

Kate Carrillo

Mike,

I am struggling with a similar problem as Jason's (I think), and I am
guessing that there's no real solution in the current version of Project. I
would like to track both the costs for the company of a resource and the
billing rate of the resource. In other words, what that resource costs the
company, and what that resource costs the client (which is particularly
important for fixed-price projects). for example if we pay John Q. $65.00 per
hour, and mark that up to the client for $90.00 an hour.

But it seem seems like all I can do is decide whether or not I want to use
cost rate per hour or billing rate per hour in the standard rate column, and
then simply record the other rate with the resource and figure out separately
with a calculator what the actual $$$ is based on hours worked. Is that a
correct assumption?
 
M

Mike Glen

Hi Kate,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup :)

First and foremost, Project is a work scheduling package and is no way near
to a cost/accounting package. Yes, it allows costs to be entered so that
the Project Manager has some idea of overall costs and so that some
ball-park budget can be allowed. Remember that all the Durations are
estimates and thus so are the costs. Project allows us some leeway by
having 5 cost rates to get us somewhere near a reasonable idea of what it
will cost the company to complete the project. So, the rates should come
from your accountants based on what the man-hour cost of an individual
resource is under the circumstances under which they will be working.

When you add Actual Costs, project has the ability to re-calculate the cost
to complete based on these estimated cost rates. It's up to your
accountants to tell you what it actually costs the company (assuming you are
interested, as really, you should only be interested in what's left to be
done - which is something you might have some control over!)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on :)

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for Project Tutorials
 
S

Steve House

IMHO, this problem comes up most often in trying to use Project as a billing
application rather than a work costing application. You may have 7
different projects that you have assigned Joe to work on but are you paying
Joe seven different rates or are you paying him ONE salary or hourly rate
yet billing the clients at different rates? Since the cost in a Project
represents your internal cost of doing the work and not the amounts you're
billing the customer - Project is essentially ignorant of payments,
revenues, overheads, and profits - Joe whom you pay $50 per hour salary has
just one rate even though you're billing Client A $75 an hour and Client B
$100 for his services. Your own cost for Joe's work is the same regardless
of which client you have sent him to. The multiple rate tables kick in when
Joe has several different functions and get's paid a different amount for
each - perhaps $50 an hour for training but $75 an hour for writing code,
that sort of thing.

HTH
 
J

Jan De Messemaeker

Hi,

Let's be positive: this can be done through VBA.
I don't think it is a sin to ask for this.
IMHO, if you say cost, you should also be able to handle price.

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
+32 495 300 620
For availability check:
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/Calendar.pdf
 
S

Steve House

Well, you don't have to use a separate calculator to do it on a task by task
basis - you can record the billing rate in a spare field and use Project's
own user-defined calculation ability to do this and it'll work in some
cases. But you are correct in that accounting for billing rates is more the
province of a separate, purpose-built, accounting application and not the
project costing portion of Project. Project's cost calculations are aimed
at estimating your own internal, direct, marginal cost in getting the
specific work on the project done. Billing rates may take that as one input
but there are many other inputs such as overheads, cost of capital, profit,
etc that also need to be taken into account that Project has no knowledge
of. And consider too that Project uses man-hours of work as a base for its
calculations - if you have a situation such as the client being charged a
certain fixed amount per day regardless of the amount of time the resource
puts in that day or time with a certain minimum (not an unsual situation)
Project has no way of calculating that - Example, Your John Q whom you pay
$65 but bill the client at $90 per hour, this time has a half-day minimum
billing. On one particular day he works 2 hours on the client site and
another day he works 5 hours. YOUR cost for doing that work for the first
day is 2 man-hours of work * $65 = $130, and for the second is 5 man-hours *
$65 = $325, simple arithmetic. But you client's cost isn't that simple - on
the first day they're billed not for the 2 hours the work takes but for 4,
the minimum billing amount, and the charge is 4 hours * $90 = $360. OTOH,
the day he's there for 5 hours their cost is a straightforward 5 * $90 =
$450. In the first instance, his billing amount is not directly based on
the number of hours spent until he exceeds 4 hours whereupon in the second
instance it IS based on actual time spent. But in both cases, your cost is
directly based on the actual hours required for the work while the amount
you bill the client really has no simple relationship to the amount of work
performed. Project would have no way of tracking and calculating that sort
of thing other than by a direct task-by-task manual entry of billing amounts
or hours to be used for billing separate from the hours the work is actually
requiring.
 
K

Kate Carrillo

Steve, thank you for your answer, it's very detailed and informative. But I
am a project manager in a software consulting company where man-hours are
almost everything, and correctly estimating project costs vs. billing rates
can make or break the company. We have projects which either have all
man-hours directly billed to the client, or we have a fixed price project in
which we have had to estimate the same. I would like to easily be able to
track both cost and billing rate in regards to labor in order to be able to
improve our abilities to provide accurate estimates to clients (and
ourselves). I agree with Jan, in the sense that it seems like providing the
user with another resource rate per hour column shouldn't be that big of a
deal, and would certainly help users in my situation.

Steve House said:
Well, you don't have to use a separate calculator to do it on a task by task
basis - you can record the billing rate in a spare field and use Project's
own user-defined calculation ability to do this and it'll work in some
cases. But you are correct in that accounting for billing rates is more the
province of a separate, purpose-built, accounting application and not the
project costing portion of Project. Project's cost calculations are aimed
at estimating your own internal, direct, marginal cost in getting the
specific work on the project done. Billing rates may take that as one input
but there are many other inputs such as overheads, cost of capital, profit,
etc that also need to be taken into account that Project has no knowledge
of. And consider too that Project uses man-hours of work as a base for its
calculations - if you have a situation such as the client being charged a
certain fixed amount per day regardless of the amount of time the resource
puts in that day or time with a certain minimum (not an unsual situation)
Project has no way of calculating that - Example, Your John Q whom you pay
$65 but bill the client at $90 per hour, this time has a half-day minimum
billing. On one particular day he works 2 hours on the client site and
another day he works 5 hours. YOUR cost for doing that work for the first
day is 2 man-hours of work * $65 = $130, and for the second is 5 man-hours *
$65 = $325, simple arithmetic. But you client's cost isn't that simple - on
the first day they're billed not for the 2 hours the work takes but for 4,
the minimum billing amount, and the charge is 4 hours * $90 = $360. OTOH,
the day he's there for 5 hours their cost is a straightforward 5 * $90 =
$450. In the first instance, his billing amount is not directly based on
the number of hours spent until he exceeds 4 hours whereupon in the second
instance it IS based on actual time spent. But in both cases, your cost is
directly based on the actual hours required for the work while the amount
you bill the client really has no simple relationship to the amount of work
performed. Project would have no way of tracking and calculating that sort
of thing other than by a direct task-by-task manual entry of billing amounts
or hours to be used for billing separate from the hours the work is actually
requiring.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs



Kate Carrillo said:
Mike,

I am struggling with a similar problem as Jason's (I think), and I am
guessing that there's no real solution in the current version of Project.
I
would like to track both the costs for the company of a resource and the
billing rate of the resource. In other words, what that resource costs the
company, and what that resource costs the client (which is particularly
important for fixed-price projects). for example if we pay John Q. $65.00
per
hour, and mark that up to the client for $90.00 an hour.

But it seem seems like all I can do is decide whether or not I want to use
cost rate per hour or billing rate per hour in the standard rate column,
and
then simply record the other rate with the resource and figure out
separately
with a calculator what the actual $$$ is based on hours worked. Is that a
correct assumption?
 
S

Steve House

Oh, don't get me wrong - I fully appreciate the importance of billing rates.
It's just that, IMHO, MS Project or any other scheduling software is the
wrong place to track 'em. Project will tell you that your marginal internal
cost to do the project for your client will be, say, $100,000. But that
only one piece of the puzzle and there are many other costs - rents,
overheads, cost of capital, profits, etc - that have to be factored in along
with that marginal cost to come up with the actual amount you bid to your
client for the job. All I'm saying is that Project is ignorant of all of
those other cost factors and because of that it's the wrong place to try to
track billable amounts. Use accounting software (which Project ain't) for
accounting functions and leave Project to the work scheduling and direct
cost estimating functions it particularly shines at, using the right tool
for the job at hand and all that.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Kate Carrillo said:
Steve, thank you for your answer, it's very detailed and informative. But
I
am a project manager in a software consulting company where man-hours are
almost everything, and correctly estimating project costs vs. billing
rates
can make or break the company. We have projects which either have all
man-hours directly billed to the client, or we have a fixed price project
in
which we have had to estimate the same. I would like to easily be able to
track both cost and billing rate in regards to labor in order to be able
to
improve our abilities to provide accurate estimates to clients (and
ourselves). I agree with Jan, in the sense that it seems like providing
the
user with another resource rate per hour column shouldn't be that big of a
deal, and would certainly help users in my situation.

Steve House said:
Well, you don't have to use a separate calculator to do it on a task by
task
basis - you can record the billing rate in a spare field and use
Project's
own user-defined calculation ability to do this and it'll work in some
cases. But you are correct in that accounting for billing rates is more
the
province of a separate, purpose-built, accounting application and not the
project costing portion of Project. Project's cost calculations are
aimed
at estimating your own internal, direct, marginal cost in getting the
specific work on the project done. Billing rates may take that as one
input
but there are many other inputs such as overheads, cost of capital,
profit,
etc that also need to be taken into account that Project has no knowledge
of. And consider too that Project uses man-hours of work as a base for
its
calculations - if you have a situation such as the client being charged a
certain fixed amount per day regardless of the amount of time the
resource
puts in that day or time with a certain minimum (not an unsual situation)
Project has no way of calculating that - Example, Your John Q whom you
pay
$65 but bill the client at $90 per hour, this time has a half-day minimum
billing. On one particular day he works 2 hours on the client site and
another day he works 5 hours. YOUR cost for doing that work for the
first
day is 2 man-hours of work * $65 = $130, and for the second is 5
man-hours *
$65 = $325, simple arithmetic. But you client's cost isn't that simple -
on
the first day they're billed not for the 2 hours the work takes but for
4,
the minimum billing amount, and the charge is 4 hours * $90 = $360.
OTOH,
the day he's there for 5 hours their cost is a straightforward 5 * $90 =
$450. In the first instance, his billing amount is not directly based on
the number of hours spent until he exceeds 4 hours whereupon in the
second
instance it IS based on actual time spent. But in both cases, your cost
is
directly based on the actual hours required for the work while the amount
you bill the client really has no simple relationship to the amount of
work
performed. Project would have no way of tracking and calculating that
sort
of thing other than by a direct task-by-task manual entry of billing
amounts
or hours to be used for billing separate from the hours the work is
actually
requiring.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs



message
Mike,

I am struggling with a similar problem as Jason's (I think), and I am
guessing that there's no real solution in the current version of
Project.
I
would like to track both the costs for the company of a resource and
the
billing rate of the resource. In other words, what that resource costs
the
company, and what that resource costs the client (which is particularly
important for fixed-price projects). for example if we pay John Q.
$65.00
per
hour, and mark that up to the client for $90.00 an hour.

But it seem seems like all I can do is decide whether or not I want to
use
cost rate per hour or billing rate per hour in the standard rate
column,
and
then simply record the other rate with the resource and figure out
separately
with a calculator what the actual $$$ is based on hours worked. Is that
a
correct assumption?

:

Hi Jason,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup :)

I don't think you can get more than the 5 on offer. If you remember
that
these rates are not wages, but the cost of using that resource to the
project, and includes overheads, sickness, holiday, etc. Thus, I
sugest
you
make some generalizations and combine the nearest two rates, and
another
two
to keep within the five rates.

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be
seen
at
this web address: http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on :)

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for Project Tutorials


Jason wrote:
Has anyone had the need to have available at one time (for a
resource) more
than five (5) Ãf¢â,¬Ã."ratesÃf¢â,¬Ã,Â?

Within the Ãf¢â,¬Ã."Resource InformationÃf¢â,¬Ã, box, in the
Ãf¢â,¬Ã."CostsÃf¢â,¬Ã, tab,
you have access from (A to E). If I have a consultant who is working
seven (7) jobs, each job needs a different rate. Is there a way to
accomplish this?

Thanks, Jason
 

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