"Return Receipts Requested" does Entorage have the ability to sendand receive them?

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Does Entourage has the ability to send and receive "Return Receipts Requested"?

If Not - Why not?

Mozilla andand Mozilla Based products, as well as Eudora have this ability.

I use them Like I would send a snail mail letter through the post office with them.

It's to verify that the reciever actually open my email message to read.

I am Teasurer of a Service Association as well as maintain the website for the same
Association. There is not a day goes by that I don't need to send at least one
message with a return receipt, or I receive one with a return receipt.

One of the sender of messages I receive such return receipts uses "Outlook" on a PC.

So it's not like a MS product doesn't have the feature.

Why is it left out of Entourage if its left out?
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

 

[Allen Watson]

Please read the discussion of this topic on the Entourage Help pages:

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/return_receipt.html>

 

[Bill Weylock]

In reading that FAQ, which is direct and easy to follow, I just happened to
notice that Entourage ignores requests for return receipts.

Is there any way to enable that, since quite a few of our client like to use
it occasionally?

And of course if I use it myself, I have one big nerve not honoring theirs.

 

[Bill Weylock]

Says nothing about why E doesn't return receipts.

If it doesn't, then I would look like a nitwit to request them from other
people. They would of course assume I was ignoring them.

Pheh.

 

[Bill Weylock]

Yeah. VERY sadly, this is going to be a reason I pull back from making
Entourage my default email program. I love many thing about it, but I can't
use a program that doesn't do something my clients expect a mail program to
do.

 

[somedumbguy]

In reading that FAQ, which is direct and easy to follow, I just happened to

notice that Entourage ignores requests for return receipts.

Is there any way to enable that, since quite a few of our client like to use
it occasionally?

And of course if I use it myself, I have one big nerve not honoring theirs.

Based on the header that you have to add in order to request a return
receipt, I would imagine that you could set up a rule to act on incoming
mail if 'Any Header' contains 'Disposition-Notification-To' and have it do
something special, like move it to a box called 'Return Requests' or maybe
flag it or change its category. Then you can just fire off a quick,
boilerplate reply. This isn't as seamless as having the mail program
automatically present you with a button to click, a la Eudora, but it should
work (shouldn't it???)...

 

[Bill Weylock]

Thanks! It probably would. I sure would love it if one of the scripting
gurus, like Paul would give it his blessing. For all we know, someone may
have written this as a script.

And I just spend 20 minutes brushing off Eudora and loading in all the ins
and outs of the past few days... Oh boy, do I like Entourage better. I think
the main plus is the way I can display the list of incoming emails. It's SO
much easier to scan a long list of spam in Entourage.

I'm getting hooked on the ability to fine tune colors too. But I shouldn't
admit that.

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Please read the discussion of this topic on the Entourage Help pages:

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/return_receipt.html>

I read the article. And if I read it right it allows sending them but Entourage
igbores them. What benifit is that?

I've been using the internet for years and I've only come across two instannces of
misuse.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Thanks! It probably would. I sure would love it if one of the scripting
gurus, like Paul would give it his blessing. For all we know, someone
may have written this as a script.

And I just spend 20 minutes brushing off Eudora and loading in all the
ins and outs of the past few days... Oh boy, do I like Entourage better.
I think the main plus is the way I can display the list of incoming
emails. It's SO much easier to scan a long list of spam in Entourage.

I'm getting hooked on the ability to fine tune colors too. But I
shouldn't admit that.

You out to try mozilla products. If you want just the mail and news client and not a
broaser then download the latest version of Thunderbird its easier than falling off
a log to send return receipt request or accept and return them. When composing and
mail, just go to options menu and click on 4th item down Return Receipts.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

 

[Bill Weylock]

Thanks, Phillip. I do appreciate the suggestion, and maybe it would be a
good option between Entourage and Eudora. I am guessing it would be easier
to do cross platform synching than it will be using this software. In fact,
I have some suspicions that one decides synching is not that important when
you use Entourage.

I have downloaded and tried those things several times. They always seem
unfriendly for some reason. It's like looking into the cockpit of a jet
fighter. All those menus and options and modules... Make's a guy's head
spin. I mean literally, all the way around, with the green bile and all.

Would it be churlish to ask how come you're using Entourage if they're so
good? (Couldn't resist of course.) There must be something in this you like
pretty well since you're a serious user.


Best,


- Bill

 

[Eric Kwang]

Yeah. VERY sadly, this is going to be a reason I pull back from making
Entourage my default email program. I love many thing about it, but I can't
use a program that doesn't do something my clients expect a mail program to
do.

I know you can change the header requests to request a return receipt; note
that if the end user is on a Mac, they will be ignored.

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Actually I as considering the possibility of trying Entorage, but this is one key
reason I on't use it. This is a vital necessity.

And I was trying to figure out why PC's Outlook use this obiviously being able to
send and receive them. (The President of my Service Association uses "Outlook" [not
Express].)

Thanks, Phillip. I do appreciate the suggestion, and maybe it would be a
good option between Entourage and Eudora. I am guessing it would be easier
to do cross platform synching than it will be using this software. In fact,
I have some suspicions that one decides synching is not that important when
you use Entourage.

I have downloaded and tried those things several times. They always seem
unfriendly for some reason. It's like looking into the cockpit of a jet
fighter. All those menus and options and modules... Make's a guy's head
spin. I mean literally, all the way around, with the green bile and all.

Would it be churlish to ask how come you're using Entourage if they're so
good? (Couldn't resist of course.) There must be something in this you like
pretty well since you're a serious user.


Best,


- Bill

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

I know you can change the header requests to request a return receipt; note
that if the end user is on a Mac, they will be ignored.

How do you know that?

Return Receipts are part of specs for the internet in general. If its implimented
according to specs. any email client that's setup to use that spec should be able
receive them regardless of Platform. Of course we have to remember that despite Ms
being a charter member of the W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) it largely ignore's
W3C specs.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

 

[Bill Weylock]

FWIW, I have fixed the headers so I can send and receive receipt requests.

When I went back to Eudora, I didn't like it at all after having had a few
days (only) with the Entourage interface. Just the way it gives me topic and
sender headers in mail lists cuts my spam disposal by 2/3. (SO much easier
to identify visually).

And I've been a Eudora user (heavy one) for many many many years.


Best,


- Bill

Actually I as considering the possibility of trying Entorage, but this is one
key
reason I on't use it. This is a vital necessity.

And I was trying to figure out why PC's Outlook use this obiviously being able
to
send and receive them. (The President of my Service Association uses "Outlook"
[not
Express].)

Thanks, Phillip. I do appreciate the suggestion, and maybe it would be a
good option between Entourage and Eudora. I am guessing it would be easier
to do cross platform synching than it will be using this software. In fact,
I have some suspicions that one decides synching is not that important when
you use Entourage.

I have downloaded and tried those things several times. They always seem
unfriendly for some reason. It's like looking into the cockpit of a jet
fighter. All those menus and options and modules... Make's a guy's head
spin. I mean literally, all the way around, with the green bile and all.

Would it be churlish to ask how come you're using Entourage if they're so
good? (Couldn't resist of course.) There must be something in this you like
pretty well since you're a serious user.


Best,


- Bill

 

[Dave Cortright]

Return Receipts are part of specs for the internet in general.

An *optional* part, but yes a part of internet mail spec, RFC 2298.

If its implimented according to specs. any email client that's setup to use
that spec should be able receive them regardless of Platform.

Any client can receive them; they are a part of the mail message itself.
Responding to them is another issue altogether, and is optional according to
the RFC:

"The presence of a Disposition-Notification-To header in a message is
merely a request for an MDN. The recipients' user agents are always
free to silently ignore such a request."

Of course we have to remember that despite Ms being a charter member of the
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) it largely ignore's W3C specs.

Actually Internet Explorer 5 is one of the most standards compliant browsers
out there. Here's one quote I pulled off the web in 30 seconds of looking:

"So far the most recent Macintosh release of IE, IE5/Mac was designed for
standards-compliance, even more so than its current Windows successor. It
supports all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff like HTML, CSS, PNG and the
DOM. Don¹t worry about the acronyms ‹ they simply amount to great stuff."

http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/browserupgrades.html

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

An *optional* part, but yes a part of internet mail spec, RFC 2298.




Any client can receive them; they are a part of the mail message itself.
Responding to them is another issue altogether, and is optional according to
the RFC:

"The presence of a Disposition-Notification-To header in a message is
merely a request for an MDN. The recipients' user agents are always
free to silently ignore such a request."




Actually Internet Explorer 5 is one of the most standards compliant browsers
out there. Here's one quote I pulled off the web in 30 seconds of looking:

"So far the most recent Macintosh release of IE, IE5/Mac was designed for
standards-compliance, even more so than its current Windows successor. It
supports all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff like HTML, CSS, PNG and the
DOM. Don¹t worry about the acronyms ‹ they simply amount to great stuff."

http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/browserupgrades.html

I know of some people that could debate you on the subject of IE Compliance.
One key bone of contention is a feature IE has called "self-Healing" which allows
for IE to substitute for missing begining and ending tags in code. Thus allow either
Lazy or inept code designers to put up code on the internet that will actually work
on IE, but not on any other web browser That adheres 100% to W3C Standards.

I don't wish to start a war on the newsgroup so I won't belabor the point.

Anyway I've found a way to send and receive return receipts in Apple Mail. By use of
a Mail Plugin. Moz products have had it since Netscape Navigator 3.0.1 days. And
Eudora has it so there plenty of Alternatives.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

 

[Allen Watson]

I read the article. And if I read it right it allows sending them but
Entourage
igbores them. What benifit is that?

I've been using the internet for years and I've only come across two
instannces of
misuse.

The issue isn't so much one of misuse as of uselessness and mail clutter.
They work fine within closed systems, where everyone has the same mail
client. But if I send out a message with a return receipt requested, the
odds are less than 50/50 that I will reach a client that recognizes the
request. While some clients can (and will) carry out the request to send
back the receipt, others will prompt the user and they can choose not to
send it back. Still other clients (like Entourage) ignore the request
completely unless the user has set up a rule to reply, so it should not be
assumed that no receipt means a recipient didn't receive the message.

This feature is more intended for the corporate environment where e-mail can
be tracked through the corporate server. With internet e-mail, it's all up
to the receiving client.

If you want Entourage to respond to them, you can write an e-mail rule that
looks for "specific header", and generates an auto-reply. I had such a rule
for a short time with a friend whose emails seemed to be getting lost; she
asked me to turn it off after a few days, so I know it worked. Something
like this:

Mail tab, then click New on the toolbar.

* Execute actions if all criteria are met
IF Specific Header "Disposition-Notification-To" Exists
IF From Is in Address Book

* Action
Reply [specify message]

 

[Dave Cortright]

Anyway I've found a way to send and receive return receipts in Apple Mail.

To steer this thread back on topic, there is also a way send and receive
receipts in Entourage:
http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/return_receipt.html

 

[Joel Nelson]

Try this: http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/6065

It's an AppleScript I wrote with some assistance from Paul Berkowitz about
three years ago. Most people don't like the script anymore, but it might
work for you. It does generate a script warning in Entourage 2004 (A
script is trying to send a message...) but in a sense that's good. I'm not
planning on developing it any more.

FWIW, I have fixed the headers so I can send and receive receipt requests.

When I went back to Eudora, I didn't like it at all after having had a few
days (only) with the Entourage interface. Just the way it gives me topic and
sender headers in mail lists cuts my spam disposal by 2/3. (SO much easier
to identify visually).

And I've been a Eudora user (heavy one) for many many many years.


Best,


- Bill

Actually I as considering the possibility of trying Entorage, but this is one
key
reason I on't use it. This is a vital necessity.

And I was trying to figure out why PC's Outlook use this obiviously being
able
to
send and receive them. (The President of my Service Association uses
"Outlook"
[not
Express].)

Thanks, Phillip. I do appreciate the suggestion, and maybe it would be a
good option between Entourage and Eudora. I am guessing it would be easier
to do cross platform synching than it will be using this software. In fact,
I have some suspicions that one decides synching is not that important when
you use Entourage.

I have downloaded and tried those things several times. They always seem
unfriendly for some reason. It's like looking into the cockpit of a jet
fighter. All those menus and options and modules... Make's a guy's head
spin. I mean literally, all the way around, with the green bile and all.

Would it be churlish to ask how come you're using Entourage if they're so
good? (Couldn't resist of course.) There must be something in this you like
pretty well since you're a serious user.


Best,


- Bill


On 6/4/04 4:38 PM, in article O2CX#[email protected],


Bill Weylock wrote:

Thanks! It probably would. I sure would love it if one of the scripting
gurus, like Paul would give it his blessing. For all we know, someone
may have written this as a script.

And I just spend 20 minutes brushing off Eudora and loading in all the
ins and outs of the past few days... Oh boy, do I like Entourage better.
I think the main plus is the way I can display the list of incoming
emails. It's SO much easier to scan a long list of spam in Entourage.

I'm getting hooked on the ability to fine tune colors too. But I
shouldn't admit that.


On 6/4/04 2:12 PM, in article BCE64FFA.4D74%[email protected],


In reading that FAQ, which is direct and easy to follow, I just

happened to

notice that Entourage ignores requests for return receipts.

Is there any way to enable that, since quite a few of our client like

to use

it occasionally?

And of course if I use it myself, I have one big nerve not honoring

theirs.

Based on the header that you have to add in order to request a return
receipt, I would imagine that you could set up a rule to act on incoming
mail if 'Any Header' contains 'Disposition-Notification-To' and have it
do
something special, like move it to a box called 'Return Requests' or
maybe
flag it or change its category. Then you can just fire off a quick,
boilerplate reply. This isn't as seamless as having the mail program
automatically present you with a button to click, a la Eudora, but it

should

work (shouldn't it???)...


You out to try mozilla products. If you want just the mail and news client
and
not a
broaser then download the latest version of Thunderbird its easier than
falling off
a log to send return receipt request or accept and return them. When
composing
and
mail, just go to options menu and click on 4th item down Return Receipts.

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

Return Receipts are part of specs for the internet in general. If its
implimented
according to specs. any email client that's setup to use that spec should be
able
receive them regardless of Platform. Of course we have to remember that
despite Ms
being a charter member of the W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) it largely
ignore's
W3C specs.

1. RFC 2298 which deals with Message Disposition Notifications - MDN
("return receipts") says:

The presence of a Disposition-Notification-To header in a message is
merely a request for an MDN. The recipients' user agents are always
free to silently ignore such a request.

MDNs are _not_ mandated. Entourage does not implement MDN replies to
Disposition-Notification-To headers because it's not required by other
agents either, and thus they are undependable, unreliable and pointless.

Entourage is following RFC 2298 in choosing to ignore requests for MDNs

2. Outlook Windows, which _does_ implement MDNs - is the MS app which is
notorious for not implement many internet standards properly. Entourage, on
the other hand, is absolutely rigorous about implementing internet standards
and adheres to all required RFCs and to RFC-dictated protocols when it
implements any optional protocols.

I dare you to find a single RFC which Entourage breaks. (Someone once found
one they had omitted and they fixed it immediately, in the next update.)

"Return-receipts" are pointless and useless since you can't dictate which
email agent all our correspondents will be using. If you send a
Disposition-Notification-To header and get no reply you have no idea
whether it's because your message did not arrive or because the recipient's
email program does not send MDNs, or because the recipient turned it off.
The only time it would make any sense would be in sending internal mail in
an organization, when you can be certain that every recipient has a
compliant agent and is required to keep replies turned on.

Entourage does NOT ignore W3C specs.


--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP Entourage
Entourage FAQ Page: http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
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