Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix it?!?!?!?!

[TH]

Okay this is getting ridiculous.

The Rules and Junk Mail Filter in Entourage are NOT working.
I have my Spam Filter set to HIGH and it catches no spam! Also, my ISP
adds a tag line to the subject of suspected spam, I have a rule on my
POP account saying if the tag line is there AND the sender is NOT in my
address book Mark as Junk and Move to the Junk Box. All tagged mail
goes to my inbox.

Also, Entourage will not auto download pictures from trusted sources,
but will auto download spam pictures - for example, my sister who is
in my Address Book sends me a wedding pic in an e-mail addressed to me
directly, Entourage says, "to protect your privacy some pictures in
this message were not dowloaded" - okay that's fine, except, I also get
a spam e-mail not even addressed with my name from someone NOT in my
Address Book with a subject "VIAGRRã VáLIUUM CIAìS" - and that image
downloads!!!!

This is insane. It DOWNLOADS spam it should be killing and will not
download pictures from trusted senders?!

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it three
times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP mailbox
instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to death!

This is a BUG. A BUG no one is addressing and instead of admitting it
and fixing it we are told to do those three things listed above ad
nauseam...

Please just make Entourage work as promised! We paid for it, now fix
it!

 

[Nathan Herring [MSFT]]

Okay this is getting ridiculous.

The Rules and Junk Mail Filter in Entourage are NOT working.
I have my Spam Filter set to HIGH and it catches no spam! Also, my ISP
adds a tag line to the subject of suspected spam, I have a rule on my
POP account saying if the tag line is there AND the sender is NOT in my
address book Mark as Junk and Move to the Junk Box. All tagged mail
goes to my inbox.

Also, Entourage will not auto download pictures from trusted sources,
but will auto download spam pictures - for example, my sister who is
in my Address Book sends me a wedding pic in an e-mail addressed to me
directly, Entourage says, "to protect your privacy some pictures in
this message were not dowloaded" - okay that's fine, except, I also get
a spam e-mail not even addressed with my name from someone NOT in my
Address Book with a subject "VIAGRRã VáLIUUM CIAìS" - and that image
downloads!!!!

This is insane. It DOWNLOADS spam it should be killing and will not
download pictures from trusted senders?!

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it three
times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP mailbox
instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to death!

This is a BUG. A BUG no one is addressing and instead of admitting it
and fixing it we are told to do those three things listed above ad
nauseam...

Please just make Entourage work as promised! We paid for it, now fix
it!

One known design issue is that if you rebuild your database, then any rules
that you had that checked mail in or moved mail into specific IMAP, Hotmail,
or Exchange folders will have those sections of those rules re-point to the
Local Inbox. Since you're using POP3, it doesn't seem like this would affect
you, but figured it might be worth mentioning.

One differentiation between how pictures work is whether they are attached
to the message or referred to by a <image> tag in HTML. When Entourage
downloads messages, it will get all of the former, but none of the latter,
independent of whether the sender is trusted or not. Most junk mail senders
will attach small, inline graphics to their mail, because they don't want to
have to host a site that will get many more requests for those images than
they'll ultimately get sales. They'd much rather you be a willing customer
when they have to pay for bandwidth, which is much more likely if you
actually clicked the link in the mail.

All that said, there definitely seems to be a problem here. Does the rule
that marks mail as junk and moves it (sic) to the junk mailbox actually mark
those messages with the category "junk" or not? This might indicate whether
the rule is being applied at all. If it is, then it's a matter of the moving
logic, and/or the moving logic on subsequent rules. If it is not, then we'll
have to diagnose why the rule doesn't "fire" when one of the target messages
comes in.

Moving logic:
* Does the target folder say "Junk Mail (On My Computer)"? If you are caught
by the first issue I list, it will likely have been changed to "Inbox (On My
Computer)" which is probably the culprit.

Firing logic:
* Since it's a POP mail item, is this rules a POP rule?
* Does it have a checked checkbox next to it?
* In the logic for firing, does it say "if Folder is Inbox (On My Computer)"
as one of the criteria? If so, what happens if you remove it?

Also, peering through the history on this thread, it is not obvious to me
which version of Entourage and also what OS you are running.

Given that this had been working, it very likely should be able to made to
work again, and you may be encountering a previously difficult-to-reproduce
problem that we could not nail down in our internal QA/testing.

-nh

 

[TH]

I am running Entourage 11.1.0 on MAC OSX 10.3.9

The rule is not applied at all. The target folder is the Junk Mail
Folder on my computer. The rule is a POP rule. And strangely enough,
if I select a message that that the rule should have applied to and
choose APPLY RULE - then the rule works...? For some reason it is not
working on messages when t hey come in, it WILL however, see that the
message meets the criteria when I choose to apply it...

And I bet I know what you're thinking, but don't - the rule IS
enabled...

 

[Barry Wainwright]

Is any other rule above it in the list?

If so, try disabling all higher rules and then see if it works. If it does,
it is likely that some higher rule is trapping your message and not allowing
later rules to run.

If this fails, try deleting the rule and recreating it.

 

[TH]

I appreciate your trying to help, but as I stated in my original post I
have donw all that. It IS the only rule I am running or even created.

As for your other tips, my original post said:

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it
three times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP
mailbox instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to
death!

These things do not work. I am not mad, just frustrated because no one
is addressing the issue, everyone is just giving me the same tips that
do not work over and over again.

 

[Barry Wainwright]

Ok, I'm sorry for your frustration, but please understand the process that
is going on here.

I, together with the other MVPs here, answer dozens of posts a day. In most
cases, the problems are ones that crop up time and time again, and the
solution is fairly routine and straightforward (to us old hacks). We are (or
at least, I am) guilty of not remembering names and of skimming the first
part of a post before dashing off a reply, certainly, I rarely check down to
the second or third level of quotes. I apologise that in this case it has
caused you even more frustration than you were already experiencing.

Now, as to your problems - if that is the only rule you have, it may be
worth trying to delete the 'rules' file in the current identities folder
(~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/Office 2004 Identities/[your identity
name]/Rules). Quit all office apps first, including the database daemon
(quit it using Activity Monitor), delete the rules file, then restart
entourage.
--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:

From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 14:28:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix it?!?!?!?!

I appreciate your trying to help, but as I stated in my original post I
have donw all that. It IS the only rule I am running or even created.

As for your other tips, my original post said:

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it
three times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP
mailbox instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to
death!

These things do not work. I am not mad, just frustrated because no one
is addressing the issue, everyone is just giving me the same tips that
do not work over and over again.

Is any other rule above it in the list?

If so, try disabling all higher rules and then see if it works. If it does,
it is likely that some higher rule is trapping your message and not allowing
later rules to run.

If this fails, try deleting the rule and recreating it.

--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:

From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 11:45:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix
it?!?!?!?!

I am running Entourage 11.1.0 on MAC OSX 10.3.9

The rule is not applied at all. The target folder is the Junk Mail
Folder on my computer. The rule is a POP rule. And strangely enough,
if I select a message that that the rule should have applied to and
choose APPLY RULE - then the rule works...? For some reason it is not
working on messages when t hey come in, it WILL however, see that the
message meets the criteria when I choose to apply it...

And I bet I know what you're thinking, but don't - the rule IS
enabled...


Nathan Herring [MSFT] wrote:
On 8/12/05 2:35:49 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "TH"

Okay this is getting ridiculous.

The Rules and Junk Mail Filter in Entourage are NOT working.
I have my Spam Filter set to HIGH and it catches no spam! Also, my ISP
adds a tag line to the subject of suspected spam, I have a rule on my
POP account saying if the tag line is there AND the sender is NOT in my
address book Mark as Junk and Move to the Junk Box. All tagged mail
goes to my inbox.

Also, Entourage will not auto download pictures from trusted sources,
but will auto download spam pictures - for example, my sister who is
in my Address Book sends me a wedding pic in an e-mail addressed to me
directly, Entourage says, "to protect your privacy some pictures in
this message were not dowloaded" - okay that's fine, except, I also get
a spam e-mail not even addressed with my name from someone NOT in my
Address Book with a subject "VIAGRRã VáLIUUM CIAìS" - and that image
downloads!!!!

This is insane. It DOWNLOADS spam it should be killing and will not
download pictures from trusted senders?!

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it three
times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP mailbox
instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to death!

This is a BUG. A BUG no one is addressing and instead of admitting it
and fixing it we are told to do those three things listed above ad
nauseam...

Please just make Entourage work as promised! We paid for it, now fix
it!

One known design issue is that if you rebuild your database, then any rules
that you had that checked mail in or moved mail into specific IMAP,
Hotmail,
or Exchange folders will have those sections of those rules re-point to the
Local Inbox. Since you're using POP3, it doesn't seem like this would
affect
you, but figured it might be worth mentioning.

One differentiation between how pictures work is whether they are attached
to the message or referred to by a <image> tag in HTML. When Entourage
downloads messages, it will get all of the former, but none of the latter,
independent of whether the sender is trusted or not. Most junk mail senders
will attach small, inline graphics to their mail, because they don't want
to
have to host a site that will get many more requests for those images than
they'll ultimately get sales. They'd much rather you be a willing customer
when they have to pay for bandwidth, which is much more likely if you
actually clicked the link in the mail.

All that said, there definitely seems to be a problem here. Does the rule
that marks mail as junk and moves it (sic) to the junk mailbox actually
mark
those messages with the category "junk" or not? This might indicate whether
the rule is being applied at all. If it is, then it's a matter of the
moving
logic, and/or the moving logic on subsequent rules. If it is not, then
we'll
have to diagnose why the rule doesn't "fire" when one of the target
messages
comes in.

Moving logic:
* Does the target folder say "Junk Mail (On My Computer)"? If you are
caught
by the first issue I list, it will likely have been changed to "Inbox (On
My
Computer)" which is probably the culprit.

Firing logic:
* Since it's a POP mail item, is this rules a POP rule?
* Does it have a checked checkbox next to it?
* In the logic for firing, does it say "if Folder is Inbox (On My
Computer)"
as one of the criteria? If so, what happens if you remove it?

Also, peering through the history on this thread, it is not obvious to me
which version of Entourage and also what OS you are running.

Given that this had been working, it very likely should be able to made to
work again, and you may be encountering a previously difficult-to-reproduce
problem that we could not nail down in our internal QA/testing.

-nh

--
Nathan Herring
MacBU SDE/Development

This posting is provided ³AS IS² with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[TH]

Hi Barry,

I DO actually appreciate the help...

Anyway, I did exactly as you wrote; shut down every office app and
then deleted the rules folder. I then restarted the comp and opened
Entourage, created the rule again, but still spam that meets the rule
criteria slips right through it.

The thing is, I know the rule is configured correctly, cause when I
manually apply it, it works (And yes it is enabled).

So what should I try next?

Tim

Ok, I'm sorry for your frustration, but please understand the process that
is going on here.

I, together with the other MVPs here, answer dozens of posts a day. In most
cases, the problems are ones that crop up time and time again, and the
solution is fairly routine and straightforward (to us old hacks). We are (or
at least, I am) guilty of not remembering names and of skimming the first
part of a post before dashing off a reply, certainly, I rarely check downto
the second or third level of quotes. I apologise that in this case it has
caused you even more frustration than you were already experiencing.

Now, as to your problems - if that is the only rule you have, it may be
worth trying to delete the 'rules' file in the current identities folder
(~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/Office 2004 Identities/[your identity
name]/Rules). Quit all office apps first, including the database daemon
(quit it using Activity Monitor), delete the rules file, then restart
entourage.
--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:

From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 14:28:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix it?!?!?!?!

I appreciate your trying to help, but as I stated in my original post I
have donw all that. It IS the only rule I am running or even created.

As for your other tips, my original post said:

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it
three times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP
mailbox instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to
death!

These things do not work. I am not mad, just frustrated because no one
is addressing the issue, everyone is just giving me the same tips that
do not work over and over again.

Is any other rule above it in the list?

If so, try disabling all higher rules and then see if it works. If it does,
it is likely that some higher rule is trapping your message and not allowing
later rules to run.

If this fails, try deleting the rule and recreating it.

--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>


From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 11:45:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix
it?!?!?!?!

I am running Entourage 11.1.0 on MAC OSX 10.3.9

The rule is not applied at all. The target folder is the Junk Mail
Folder on my computer. The rule is a POP rule. And strangely enough,
if I select a message that that the rule should have applied to and
choose APPLY RULE - then the rule works...? For some reason it is not
working on messages when t hey come in, it WILL however, see that the
message meets the criteria when I choose to apply it...

And I bet I know what you're thinking, but don't - the rule IS
enabled...


Nathan Herring [MSFT] wrote:
On 8/12/05 2:35:49 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "TH"

Okay this is getting ridiculous.

The Rules and Junk Mail Filter in Entourage are NOT working.
I have my Spam Filter set to HIGH and it catches no spam! Also, myISP
adds a tag line to the subject of suspected spam, I have a rule on my
POP account saying if the tag line is there AND the sender is NOT in my
address book Mark as Junk and Move to the Junk Box. All tagged mail
goes to my inbox.

Also, Entourage will not auto download pictures from trusted sources,
but will auto download spam pictures - for example, my sister who is
in my Address Book sends me a wedding pic in an e-mail addressed tome
directly, Entourage says, "to protect your privacy some pictures in
this message were not dowloaded" - okay that's fine, except, I alsoget
a spam e-mail not even addressed with my name from someone NOT in my
Address Book with a subject "VIAGRRã VáLIUUM CIAìS" - and that image
downloads!!!!

This is insane. It DOWNLOADS spam it should be killing and will not
download pictures from trusted senders?!

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it three
times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP mailbox
instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to death!

This is a BUG. A BUG no one is addressing and instead of admittingit
and fixing it we are told to do those three things listed above ad
nauseam...

Please just make Entourage work as promised! We paid for it, now fix
it!

One known design issue is that if you rebuild your database, then any rules
that you had that checked mail in or moved mail into specific IMAP,
Hotmail,
or Exchange folders will have those sections of those rules re-pointto the
Local Inbox. Since you're using POP3, it doesn't seem like this would
affect
you, but figured it might be worth mentioning.

One differentiation between how pictures work is whether they are attached
to the message or referred to by a <image> tag in HTML. When Entourage
downloads messages, it will get all of the former, but none of the latter,
independent of whether the sender is trusted or not. Most junk mail senders
will attach small, inline graphics to their mail, because they don'twant
to
have to host a site that will get many more requests for those images than
they'll ultimately get sales. They'd much rather you be a willing customer
when they have to pay for bandwidth, which is much more likely if you
actually clicked the link in the mail.

All that said, there definitely seems to be a problem here. Does therule
that marks mail as junk and moves it (sic) to the junk mailbox actually
mark
those messages with the category "junk" or not? This might indicate whether
the rule is being applied at all. If it is, then it's a matter of the
moving
logic, and/or the moving logic on subsequent rules. If it is not, then
we'll
have to diagnose why the rule doesn't "fire" when one of the target
messages
comes in.

Moving logic:
* Does the target folder say "Junk Mail (On My Computer)"? If you are
caught
by the first issue I list, it will likely have been changed to "Inbox (On
My
Computer)" which is probably the culprit.

Firing logic:
* Since it's a POP mail item, is this rules a POP rule?
* Does it have a checked checkbox next to it?
* In the logic for firing, does it say "if Folder is Inbox (On My
Computer)"
as one of the criteria? If so, what happens if you remove it?

Also, peering through the history on this thread, it is not obvious to me
which version of Entourage and also what OS you are running.

Given that this had been working, it very likely should be able to made to
work again, and you may be encountering a previously difficult-to-reproduce
problem that we could not nail down in our internal QA/testing.

-nh

--
Nathan Herring
MacBU SDE/Development

This posting is provided ³AS IS² with no warranties, and confersno rights.

 

[Nathan Herring [MSFT]]

I am running Entourage 11.1.0 on MAC OSX 10.3.9

The rule is not applied at all. The target folder is the Junk Mail
Folder on my computer. The rule is a POP rule. And strangely enough,
if I select a message that that the rule should have applied to and
choose APPLY RULE - then the rule works...? For some reason it is not
working on messages when t hey come in, it WILL however, see that the
message meets the criteria when I choose to apply it...

And I bet I know what you're thinking, but don't - the rule IS
enabled...

Hmm... the Junk E-Mail Protection is its own "rule", and doesn't otherwise
show up in the Rules window. That you have it on HIGH and it doesn't fire
for any messages is very strange. Do you have any items in your safe
domains? (If you had something like "com" in there, anything from a .com
address would be considered safe, and that could be the culprit.)

Is it that you also have a separate POP Rule to do something orthogonal? Or
just to catch extra junk that the junk mail filter isn't catching?

It is, unfortunately, incredibly difficult to diagnose these problems,
especially if it's not user error. We try to figure out if we can reproduce
these problems with a few simple reproduction steps, but most often we end
up having to perform exploratory surgery on an identity to see if it's data
corruption (and that doesn't really explain _how_ it got corrupted -- could
be a bad hard drive or bad OS or bad Entourage code) or code error. Only in
the latter case is there anything we can really do, and it is time intensive
to perform.

If you create a new identity (Entourage/Switch Identity.../New), and set up
your accounts and rules identically, does it work, or does it also fail? (I
know that's annoying, but it'd help narrow down whether there's some strange
corruption in the identity that the Database Utility didn't find on a Verify
run.) You can subsequently return back to your old identity by exporting
your newly-received POP messages to the Finder, and then importing them back
in after switching back to the old identity.

-nh

 

[TH]

Okay, so I created a new identity and re-created the rule and it
worked. So what should I do now?

 

[Nathan Herring [MSFT]]

Okay, so I created a new identity and re-created the rule and it
worked. So what should I do now?

From the perspective of getting you up and running, I would suggest
migrating your data from the old identity to the new identity, make a backup
of the new identity (just in case something like this happens again), and go
on from there. You can use the Import/Export commands to aid you in that
process.

-nh

 

[Barry Wainwright]

Just what I was about to suggest.

I guess your only option now is to migrate the data over

This is a painful process and can take a day or two to get everything you
need in the right places. The worst bit is the rules & MLM entries that
cannot be scripted and have to be recreated manually, one by one.

I have been through this process about 3 times now (for reasons I won't go
into here, but that do not affect normal users) and each time I dread it.

Start with the data - the easiest way to get that across is to use the
'export' command on the file menu. That will get mail, contacts, note &
tasks over. If you take a look at Paul B's 'import-export' script suite,
that can also ease the process somewhat. It is shareware, but you get 15
days unrestricted use before the need to register kicks in - this should be
more than enough for a one-time transfer.

Next you need to set up the mail & news accounts again. In my case, I have
21 different accounts that need to be recreated - Ugh!

Then, you have to start on the MLM entries, rules, scripts and projects.
This is a royal pain, and I wish MS would make rules & MLM scriptable so
that we could automate this process, but they have so far resisted all
efforts to persuade them to do so, so I guess we're stuck with things as
they are. Take a look on the bright side - this is an opportunity to
'release' all those old & outdated rules & MLM entries that you have had
cluttering up the database for the last 5 years... Seriously, the only way
to do this is the long way. I tend to let the mail arrive, and start
creating new rules etc as it hits the inbox. After about a month I have
things pretty well back to how they were.

 

[Barry Wainwright]

--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:

From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 19:21:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix it?!?!?!?!

Hi Barry,

I DO actually appreciate the help...

Anyway, I did exactly as you wrote; shut down every office app and
then deleted the rules folder. I then restarted the comp and opened
Entourage, created the rule again, but still spam that meets the rule
criteria slips right through it.

The thing is, I know the rule is configured correctly, cause when I
manually apply it, it works (And yes it is enabled).

So what should I try next?

Tim

Ok, I'm sorry for your frustration, but please understand the process that
is going on here.

I, together with the other MVPs here, answer dozens of posts a day. In most
cases, the problems are ones that crop up time and time again, and the
solution is fairly routine and straightforward (to us old hacks). We are (or
at least, I am) guilty of not remembering names and of skimming the first
part of a post before dashing off a reply, certainly, I rarely check down to
the second or third level of quotes. I apologise that in this case it has
caused you even more frustration than you were already experiencing.

Now, as to your problems - if that is the only rule you have, it may be
worth trying to delete the 'rules' file in the current identities folder
(~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/Office 2004 Identities/[your identity
name]/Rules). Quit all office apps first, including the database daemon
(quit it using Activity Monitor), delete the rules file, then restart
entourage.
--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:

From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 14:28:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix
it?!?!?!?!

I appreciate your trying to help, but as I stated in my original post I
have donw all that. It IS the only rule I am running or even created.

As for your other tips, my original post said:

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it
three times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP
mailbox instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to
death!

These things do not work. I am not mad, just frustrated because no one
is addressing the issue, everyone is just giving me the same tips that
do not work over and over again.


Barry Wainwright wrote:
Is any other rule above it in the list?

If so, try disabling all higher rules and then see if it works. If it does,
it is likely that some higher rule is trapping your message and not
allowing
later rules to run.

If this fails, try deleting the rule and recreating it.

--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>


From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 11:45:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix
it?!?!?!?!

I am running Entourage 11.1.0 on MAC OSX 10.3.9

The rule is not applied at all. The target folder is the Junk Mail
Folder on my computer. The rule is a POP rule. And strangely enough,
if I select a message that that the rule should have applied to and
choose APPLY RULE - then the rule works...? For some reason it is not
working on messages when t hey come in, it WILL however, see that the
message meets the criteria when I choose to apply it...

And I bet I know what you're thinking, but don't - the rule IS
enabled...


Nathan Herring [MSFT] wrote:
On 8/12/05 2:35:49 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "TH"

Okay this is getting ridiculous.

The Rules and Junk Mail Filter in Entourage are NOT working.
I have my Spam Filter set to HIGH and it catches no spam! Also, my ISP
adds a tag line to the subject of suspected spam, I have a rule on my
POP account saying if the tag line is there AND the sender is NOT in my
address book Mark as Junk and Move to the Junk Box. All tagged mail
goes to my inbox.

Also, Entourage will not auto download pictures from trusted sources,
but will auto download spam pictures - for example, my sister who is
in my Address Book sends me a wedding pic in an e-mail addressed to me
directly, Entourage says, "to protect your privacy some pictures in
this message were not dowloaded" - okay that's fine, except, I also get
a spam e-mail not even addressed with my name from someone NOT in my
Address Book with a subject "VIAGRRã VáLIUUM CIAìS" - and that image
downloads!!!!

This is insane. It DOWNLOADS spam it should be killing and will not
download pictures from trusted senders?!

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it three
times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP mailbox
instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to death!

This is a BUG. A BUG no one is addressing and instead of admitting it
and fixing it we are told to do those three things listed above ad
nauseam...

Please just make Entourage work as promised! We paid for it, now fix
it!

One known design issue is that if you rebuild your database, then any
rules
that you had that checked mail in or moved mail into specific IMAP,
Hotmail,
or Exchange folders will have those sections of those rules re-point to
the
Local Inbox. Since you're using POP3, it doesn't seem like this would
affect
you, but figured it might be worth mentioning.

One differentiation between how pictures work is whether they are
attached
to the message or referred to by a <image> tag in HTML. When Entourage
downloads messages, it will get all of the former, but none of the
latter,
independent of whether the sender is trusted or not. Most junk mail
senders
will attach small, inline graphics to their mail, because they don't want
to
have to host a site that will get many more requests for those images
than
they'll ultimately get sales. They'd much rather you be a willing
customer
when they have to pay for bandwidth, which is much more likely if you
actually clicked the link in the mail.

All that said, there definitely seems to be a problem here. Does the rule
that marks mail as junk and moves it (sic) to the junk mailbox actually
mark
those messages with the category "junk" or not? This might indicate
whether
the rule is being applied at all. If it is, then it's a matter of the
moving
logic, and/or the moving logic on subsequent rules. If it is not, then
we'll
have to diagnose why the rule doesn't "fire" when one of the target
messages
comes in.

Moving logic:
* Does the target folder say "Junk Mail (On My Computer)"? If you are
caught
by the first issue I list, it will likely have been changed to "Inbox (On
My
Computer)" which is probably the culprit.

Firing logic:
* Since it's a POP mail item, is this rules a POP rule?
* Does it have a checked checkbox next to it?
* In the logic for firing, does it say "if Folder is Inbox (On My
Computer)"
as one of the criteria? If so, what happens if you remove it?

Also, peering through the history on this thread, it is not obvious to me
which version of Entourage and also what OS you are running.

Given that this had been working, it very likely should be able to made
to
work again, and you may be encountering a previously
difficult-to-reproduce
problem that we could not nail down in our internal QA/testing.

-nh

--
Nathan Herring
MacBU SDE/Development

This posting is provided ³AS IS² with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

 

[TH]

More trouble - I can not export my data - when I run through the Export
I get an error saying something like, Your data could not be exported
because the database appears to be corrupted. It tells me to run the
Database Utility and verify my database - but when I run it it says my
database is running correctly. So, do I have to start from scratch?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Nathan Herring [MSFT]]

No, but your export will have to be piecemeal. Try only exporting one type
of record (e.g., Contact) at a time to see what "sections" of the database
are bad. When you isolate which types of records you cannot export
automatically, you can try dragging individual items into a folder in the
Finder. Ultimately, some items may not be exportable due to database
corruption.

Would you be willing to submit this database for inspection? I can't
guarantee anything will come of it, but anything that on the one hand says
that the database appears corrupted and on the other verifies as correct is
interesting.

-nh

 

[David Schwab]

I'm also having this problem. Everything was working fine, until last week
on my work Mac, I ran low on hard drive space for a few minutes. It was from
Photoshop using up the space for scratch files.

After rebooting and clearing out some stuff, Entourage 2004 (11.1.0
(040913)) will no longer filter spam, most of it is very blatant in its
wording, and for a while now I get the same 15 pieces of it every day, and
it has been working fine for the past 6 months. Now nothing gets filtered
by the Junk E-Mail filter. Also clicking on the Junk button will move the
message to the Junk E-mail folder, but does not seem to make the next almost
identical and easy to spot SPAM get filtered the next time.

I have my filter set to high.

Is there a way to reset the built in filter? I recall there was an update
for it recently.

Also I made a rule for Junk mail that I get that was never caught by the
built in filter, and that ran fine until the same time the built in filter
stopped working. Even if I have it set for a particular word (like
"viagra") or even an email address of the sender, it no longer filters.

Other filters I made, to move non junk mail, still work. It seems that if I
have a filter mark mail as Junk that it no longer works.

Clearly something has gotten corrupted. I have tried repairing my data base,
and deleting pref files.

This also seems to be fairly common, as I read about it on
www.macintouch.com.

My home Mac still works as expected.

System info... This is on a PowerMac G4, with 1GHz upgrade card. 512 MB
RAM, OS X 10.3.9, Build 7W98, with all the latest security patches, etc.

David

 

[Allen Watson]

Seriously, the only way
to do this is the long way. I tend to let the mail arrive, and start
creating new rules etc as it hits the inbox. After about a month I have
things pretty well back to how they were.

I've been through the same process as Barry describes, using Paul's
Scripts for most of it, the built-in Export facility for a little of
it. It's tedious. But the result, for me, has been a clean-running
database for the past seven months. Whew!

And with each succeeding release of Entourage, the Database Utility
gets better and better at detecting and repairing corruption, so keep
up to date.

To the second person who started having Junk Mail filtering failure:
You most likely also need to start a new identity in Entourage. The
scenario you describe, of a disk becoming full, is a prime candidate
for database corruption.

 

[Peter Green]

I've been through the same process as Barry describes, using Paul's
Scripts for most of it, the built-in Export facility for a little of
it. It's tedious. But the result, for me, has been a clean-running
database for the past seven months. Whew!

And with each succeeding release of Entourage, the Database Utility
gets better and better at detecting and repairing corruption, so keep
up to date.

To the second person who started having Junk Mail filtering failure:
You most likely also need to start a new identity in Entourage. The
scenario you describe, of a disk becoming full, is a prime candidate
for database corruption.
--
Allen Watson
MVP for Office (Entourage, Word)
http://homepage.mac.com/allen_a_watson/
HELP for Entourage: http://entourage.mvps.org

 

[Peter Green]

I've been through the same process as Barry describes, using Paul's
Scripts for most of it, the built-in Export facility for a little of
it. It's tedious. But the result, for me, has been a clean-running
database for the past seven months. Whew!

And with each succeeding release of Entourage, the Database Utility
gets better and better at detecting and repairing corruption, so keep
up to date.

To the second person who started having Junk Mail filtering failure:
You most likely also need to start a new identity in Entourage. The
scenario you describe, of a disk becoming full, is a prime candidate
for database corruption.
--
Allen Watson
MVP for Office (Entourage, Word)
http://homepage.mac.com/allen_a_watson/
HELP for Entourage: http://entourage.mvps.org

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

What happens when you select a message meeting the criteria and go to
Message/Apply Rule/All Rules?

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 19:21:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix it?!?!?!?!

Hi Barry,

I DO actually appreciate the help...

Anyway, I did exactly as you wrote; shut down every office app and
then deleted the rules folder. I then restarted the comp and opened
Entourage, created the rule again, but still spam that meets the rule
criteria slips right through it.

The thing is, I know the rule is configured correctly, cause when I
manually apply it, it works (And yes it is enabled).

So what should I try next?

Tim

Ok, I'm sorry for your frustration, but please understand the process that
is going on here.

I, together with the other MVPs here, answer dozens of posts a day. In most
cases, the problems are ones that crop up time and time again, and the
solution is fairly routine and straightforward (to us old hacks). We are (or
at least, I am) guilty of not remembering names and of skimming the first
part of a post before dashing off a reply, certainly, I rarely check down to
the second or third level of quotes. I apologise that in this case it has
caused you even more frustration than you were already experiencing.

Now, as to your problems - if that is the only rule you have, it may be
worth trying to delete the 'rules' file in the current identities folder
(~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/Office 2004 Identities/[your identity
name]/Rules). Quit all office apps first, including the database daemon
(quit it using Activity Monitor), delete the rules file, then restart
entourage.
--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:

From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 14:28:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix
it?!?!?!?!

I appreciate your trying to help, but as I stated in my original post I
have donw all that. It IS the only rule I am running or even created.

As for your other tips, my original post said:

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it
three times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP
mailbox instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to
death!

These things do not work. I am not mad, just frustrated because no one
is addressing the issue, everyone is just giving me the same tips that
do not work over and over again.


Barry Wainwright wrote:
Is any other rule above it in the list?

If so, try disabling all higher rules and then see if it works. If it does,
it is likely that some higher rule is trapping your message and not
allowing
later rules to run.

If this fails, try deleting the rule and recreating it.

--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see http://mvp.support.microsoft.com for details)
Seen the All-New Entourage Help Pages? - Check them out:
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>


From: TH <[email protected]>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Date: 15 Aug 2005 11:45:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Rules/Junk Filter still not working - why won't MS fix
it?!?!?!?!

I am running Entourage 11.1.0 on MAC OSX 10.3.9

The rule is not applied at all. The target folder is the Junk Mail
Folder on my computer. The rule is a POP rule. And strangely enough,
if I select a message that that the rule should have applied to and
choose APPLY RULE - then the rule works...? For some reason it is not
working on messages when t hey come in, it WILL however, see that the
message meets the criteria when I choose to apply it...

And I bet I know what you're thinking, but don't - the rule IS
enabled...


Nathan Herring [MSFT] wrote:
On 8/12/05 2:35:49 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "TH"

Okay this is getting ridiculous.

The Rules and Junk Mail Filter in Entourage are NOT working.
I have my Spam Filter set to HIGH and it catches no spam! Also, my ISP
adds a tag line to the subject of suspected spam, I have a rule on my
POP account saying if the tag line is there AND the sender is NOT in my
address book Mark as Junk and Move to the Junk Box. All tagged mail
goes to my inbox.

Also, Entourage will not auto download pictures from trusted sources,
but will auto download spam pictures - for example, my sister who is
in my Address Book sends me a wedding pic in an e-mail addressed to me
directly, Entourage says, "to protect your privacy some pictures in
this message were not dowloaded" - okay that's fine, except, I also get
a spam e-mail not even addressed with my name from someone NOT in my
Address Book with a subject "VIAGRRã VáLIUUM CIAìS" - and that image
downloads!!!!

This is insane. It DOWNLOADS spam it should be killing and will not
download pictures from trusted senders?!

Don't tell me to delete and create the rule again - I've done it three
times;
Don't tell me to rebuild my database - cause I've done it twice;
Don't tell me to verify that the rules are applied to the POP mailbox
instead of Exchange or IMAP - because I have verified this to death!

This is a BUG. A BUG no one is addressing and instead of admitting it
and fixing it we are told to do those three things listed above ad
nauseam...

Please just make Entourage work as promised! We paid for it, now fix
it!

One known design issue is that if you rebuild your database, then any
rules
that you had that checked mail in or moved mail into specific IMAP,
Hotmail,
or Exchange folders will have those sections of those rules re-point to
the
Local Inbox. Since you're using POP3, it doesn't seem like this would
affect
you, but figured it might be worth mentioning.

One differentiation between how pictures work is whether they are
attached
to the message or referred to by a <image> tag in HTML. When Entourage
downloads messages, it will get all of the former, but none of the
latter,
independent of whether the sender is trusted or not. Most junk mail
senders
will attach small, inline graphics to their mail, because they don't want
to
have to host a site that will get many more requests for those images
than
they'll ultimately get sales. They'd much rather you be a willing
customer
when they have to pay for bandwidth, which is much more likely if you
actually clicked the link in the mail.

All that said, there definitely seems to be a problem here. Does the rule
that marks mail as junk and moves it (sic) to the junk mailbox actually
mark
those messages with the category "junk" or not? This might indicate
whether
the rule is being applied at all. If it is, then it's a matter of the
moving
logic, and/or the moving logic on subsequent rules. If it is not, then
we'll
have to diagnose why the rule doesn't "fire" when one of the target
messages
comes in.

Moving logic:
* Does the target folder say "Junk Mail (On My Computer)"? If you are
caught
by the first issue I list, it will likely have been changed to "Inbox (On
My
Computer)" which is probably the culprit.

Firing logic:
* Since it's a POP mail item, is this rules a POP rule?
* Does it have a checked checkbox next to it?
* In the logic for firing, does it say "if Folder is Inbox (On My
Computer)"
as one of the criteria? If so, what happens if you remove it?

Also, peering through the history on this thread, it is not obvious to me
which version of Entourage and also what OS you are running.

Given that this had been working, it very likely should be able to made
to
work again, and you may be encountering a previously
difficult-to-reproduce
problem that we could not nail down in our internal QA/testing.

-nh

--
Nathan Herring
MacBU SDE/Development

This posting is provided ³AS IS² with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

 

[heymoe]

For what it is worth, I am having the same exact problem. I have trie
everything with no luck....