section breaks causing multiple pdfs

[nsmcc]

Hello,
I found several old threads about this, but none resolved my issue, so
I decided to surface the topic afresh and see if anyone has any new
thoughts on the matter... This is the first time I've used section
breaks in a document and possibly the last.

I am using Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac. My OS is 10.4.6.
I am using the "PDF" button in the "Print" window.
The margins, orientations, and other formatting are the same throughout
my document, insofar as I can tell, because I created them all using
the same template and styles. To the extent that I know how to check,
I've looked for any inconsistencies that might be tripping up the PDF
writer.
I did not use the Master File function.
My Word document has seven section breaks. Each section has a different
header. All the footers are identical ("same as previous") after the
initial cover page.
When I print the document to PDF, it becomes three separate PDFs: the
first five sections remain together; the last two sections become their
own PDFs.
I haven't yet tried any second-party solutions for re-merging the PDF
files; I'm hoping I can resove this within Word...

Gratefully looking forward to your throughts and suggestions,
Nora

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hello,
I found several old threads about this, but none resolved my issue, so
I decided to surface the topic afresh and see if anyone has any new
thoughts on the matter... This is the first time I've used section
breaks in a document and possibly the last.

Section breaks are terribly convenient. Don't give up too soon. How
else can you do running heads and always start chapters on recto pages?

How else can you mix 2 column body with single column headers?

OK the right answer is to use Quark or InDesign and bin Word, but in
case that does not appeal on grounds of cost, and LaTeX has been
discarded on grounds of arcanity, you have to put up with Word's little
foibles.

I am using Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac. My OS is 10.4.6.
I am using the "PDF" button in the "Print" window.
The margins, orientations, and other formatting are the same throughout
my document, insofar as I can tell, because I created them all using
the same template and styles. To the extent that I know how to check,
I've looked for any inconsistencies that might be tripping up the PDF
writer.
I did not use the Master File function.
My Word document has seven section breaks. Each section has a different
header. All the footers are identical ("same as previous") after the
initial cover page.
When I print the document to PDF, it becomes three separate PDFs: the
first five sections remain together; the last two sections become their
own PDFs.
I haven't yet tried any second-party solutions for re-merging the PDF
files; I'm hoping I can resove this within Word...

What you are seeing is all too common. Some tiny difference between
margins in body, header or footer is prompting Word to go through a
dance that ends up splitting the PDFs.

The best way to deal with it is to lie back and enjoy it. Think of
England if it helps. Unless you are very frequently trying to print
double sided, the simplest way is to glue the mess together again
afterward. All you have to do is look sideways at a document without
holding your breath and Word will split PDFs at section breaks.

Get PDFLab from versiontracker. It is free, and does exactly what you
want.

Yes, yes I know Word should not be doing that to you, but it does.
Getting it changed is harder than making a supertanker change course
from your dinghy just before it gets sliced in half.

Someone will be along in a minute to tell you it is all Apple's fault.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hello,
I found several old threads about this, but none resolved my issue, so
I decided to surface the topic afresh and see if anyone has any new
thoughts on the matter... This is the first time I've used section
breaks in a document and possibly the last.

I am using Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac. My OS is 10.4.6.
I am using the "PDF" button in the "Print" window.
The margins, orientations, and other formatting are the same throughout
my document, insofar as I can tell, because I created them all using
the same template and styles. To the extent that I know how to check,
I've looked for any inconsistencies that might be tripping up the PDF
writer.
I did not use the Master File function.
My Word document has seven section breaks. Each section has a different
header. All the footers are identical ("same as previous") after the
initial cover page.
When I print the document to PDF, it becomes three separate PDFs: the
first five sections remain together; the last two sections become their
own PDFs.
I haven't yet tried any second-party solutions for re-merging the PDF
files; I'm hoping I can resove this within Word...

Gratefully looking forward to your throughts and suggestions,
Nora

Sorry, Nora, but as I understand it you won't get resolution in Word because
Word doesn't create the PDF. It merely calls the PDF generator from the OS &
hands the data off as though it were sending it to a regular printer. As
convenient as the native PDF generator in OS X is, it seems to have some
limitations... but still a bargain when you remember that it is an included
"freebie"

I believe your options are to obtain either a 'stitcher' or a moer capable
PDF generating program. If you don't want to go the bite for Acrobat, there
are a number of each available as shareware/freeware. For starters, you
might take a look at;

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

Search for keyword 'pdf' (without the quotes).

 

[Elliott Roper]

Sorry, Nora, but as I understand it you won't get resolution in Word because
Word doesn't create the PDF. It merely calls the PDF generator from the OS &
hands the data off as though it were sending it to a regular printer. As
convenient as the native PDF generator in OS X is, it seems to have some
limitations... but still a bargain when you remember that it is an included
"freebie"

What did I tell ya Nora? There would be one along in a minute.

If you have access to a double-sided printer, you can test Bob's
assertion that it is Apple's PDF generator.

What is likely happening is that Word over-reacts when being told of a
print area change. Other programs don't, but only a few do the kind of
things Word does, so it has some excuse, but not much. If you want an
example of doing it properly, try OmniGraffle with multiple canvases of
different size.

The rest of Bob's advice is sound. Get a PDF stitcher-upper.

 

[CyberTaz]

If I didn't know better I'd swear you intentionally set me up for that one,
ya ol' coot

As with most anything, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. All
I really know for certain is that creating PDFs with Acrobat using the same
doc hasn't caused the same problems to occur as did when popping the PDF
directly from Word. As you more eloquently put it, there are any number of
variables involved, so whether Word sends the tripe or the PDF generator
misinterprets the signal is just a new age version of the chicken/egg
conundrum.

At least we agree that there is a better solution out there to be had!

 

[Clive Huggan]

Well, CT, I'm really worried at the attitude drift inherent in Elliott's
comment: "Other programs don't [over-react when being told of a print area
change], but only a few do the kind of things Word does, so it has some
excuse, but not much."

Even with the "but not much" it's still a worry... :-\

Clive
======

 

[Elliott Roper]

Well, CT, I'm really worried at the attitude drift inherent in Elliott's
comment: "Other programs don't [over-react when being told of a print area
change], but only a few do the kind of things Word does, so it has some
excuse, but not much."

Even with the "but not much" it's still a worry... :-\

Normal service will be resumed shortly.

 

[CyberTaz]

From his last message in the thread I would imagine Elliott is in the
process of loading his cannon & constructing a formidable retort...
This is a subject we can kick around for an indefinite period - and
probably with no more definitive conclusion than we have now.

Certainly you don't think he's abandoning the cause?

Regards,
Bob

Well, CT, I'm really worried at the attitude drift inherent in Elliott's
comment: "Other programs don't [over-react when being told of a print area
change], but only a few do the kind of things Word does, so it has some
excuse, but not much."

Even with the "but not much" it's still a worry... :-\

Clive
======

If I didn't know better I'd swear you intentionally set me up for that one,
ya ol' coot

As with most anything, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. All
I really know for certain is that creating PDFs with Acrobat using the same
doc hasn't caused the same problems to occur as did when popping the PDF
directly from Word. As you more eloquently put it, there are any number of
variables involved, so whether Word sends the tripe or the PDF generator
misinterprets the signal is just a new age version of the chicken/egg
conundrum.

At least we agree that there is a better solution out there to be had!

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Clive:

Yeah. He's gone soft on us... Obviously insufficient Bordeaux...

Cheers

Well, CT, I'm really worried at the attitude drift inherent in Elliott's
comment: "Other programs don't [over-react when being told of a print area
change], but only a few do the kind of things Word does, so it has some
excuse, but not much."

Even with the "but not much" it's still a worry... :-\

Clive
======

If I didn't know better I'd swear you intentionally set me up for that one,
ya ol' coot

As with most anything, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. All
I really know for certain is that creating PDFs with Acrobat using the same
doc hasn't caused the same problems to occur as did when popping the PDF
directly from Word. As you more eloquently put it, there are any number of
variables involved, so whether Word sends the tripe or the PDF generator
misinterprets the signal is just a new age version of the chicken/egg
conundrum.

At least we agree that there is a better solution out there to be had!

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[CyberTaz]

Normal service will be resumed shortly.

It's been over 24 hrs since we've heard back...

Hi Clive:

Yeah. He's gone soft on us... Obviously insufficient Bordeaux...

.... Do you think it may be, perhaps, just the *opposite*?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

The word from the adobe Acrobat Mac Newsgroup is: (Paraphrasing from
several of the experts on the Group)

"Word has a unique system of coding section Breaks , and page breaks
That no other Application uses. And there is something about these
codings That Acrobat has never, been able to decipher correctly, and
probably never will. To avoid such problems remove any and all page and
section breaks and create the breaks manually by adding appropriate
number of returns. It's a MS problem though, MS will likely deny it."

Hello,
I found several old threads about this, but none resolved my issue, so
I decided to surface the topic afresh and see if anyone has any new
thoughts on the matter... This is the first time I've used section
breaks in a document and possibly the last.

I am using Microsoft Word 2004 for Mac. My OS is 10.4.6.
I am using the "PDF" button in the "Print" window.
The margins, orientations, and other formatting are the same throughout
my document, insofar as I can tell, because I created them all using
the same template and styles. To the extent that I know how to check,
I've looked for any inconsistencies that might be tripping up the PDF
writer.
I did not use the Master File function.
My Word document has seven section breaks. Each section has a different
header. All the footers are identical ("same as previous") after the
initial cover page.
When I print the document to PDF, it becomes three separate PDFs: the
first five sections remain together; the last two sections become their
own PDFs.
I haven't yet tried any second-party solutions for re-merging the PDF
files; I'm hoping I can resove this within Word...

Gratefully looking forward to your throughts and suggestions,
Nora

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Section breaks are terribly convenient. Don't give up too soon. How
else can you do running heads and always start chapters on recto pages?

How else can you mix 2 column body with single column headers?

OK the right answer is to use Quark or InDesign and bin Word, but in
case that does not appeal on grounds of cost, and LaTeX has been
discarded on grounds of arcanity, you have to put up with Word's little
foibles.

What you are seeing is all too common. Some tiny difference between
margins in body, header or footer is prompting Word to go through a
dance that ends up splitting the PDFs.

The best way to deal with it is to lie back and enjoy it. Think of
England if it helps. Unless you are very frequently trying to print
double sided, the simplest way is to glue the mess together again
afterward. All you have to do is look sideways at a document without
holding your breath and Word will split PDFs at section breaks.

Get PDFLab from versiontracker. It is free, and does exactly what you
want.

Yes, yes I know Word should not be doing that to you, but it does.
Getting it changed is harder than making a supertanker change course
from your dinghy just before it gets sliced in half.

Someone will be along in a minute to tell you it is all Apple's fault.

Whether assign blame is appropriate or not....

Just create the individual PDF's save them as separate files. Then in
Acrobat open first Document and open document menu and choose insert
pages. choose the other files in appropriate order. When completed save
file. This is the work around the Acrobat Mac Group recommends for a
work around. It appears to be a problem That each company blames on on
the other but curiously show up only in Office.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Sorry, Nora, but as I understand it you won't get resolution in Word because
Word doesn't create the PDF. It merely calls the PDF generator from the OS &
hands the data off as though it were sending it to a regular printer. As
convenient as the native PDF generator in OS X is, it seems to have some
limitations... but still a bargain when you remember that it is an included
"freebie"

I believe your options are to obtain either a 'stitcher' or a moer capable
PDF generating program. If you don't want to go the bite for Acrobat, there
are a number of each available as shareware/freeware. For starters, you
might take a look at;

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

Search for keyword 'pdf' (without the quotes).

The same defect show up in Acrobat pro or Standard. and Adobe claims
its the code that MS uses for section and page Breaks.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Elliott Roper]

It's been over 24 hrs since we've heard back...




... Do you think it may be, perhaps, just the *opposite*?

That's what's so impressive about you Taz. How often you get the
correct diagnosis with so little evidence on offer.

Back to the topic. I see Phillip Jones has quoted collective Acrobat
wisdom to the effect that Acrobat is no more able to stop Humpty
falling apart than is Mac OS X and Preview.app.

With the All the Kings Horses plug-in, they can put him back together.
But didn't they spoil their act by suggesting bags of empty paragraphs
to force page breaks?

Phillip's sig is more than usually apposite today. They did break it,
.....into lots of little PDFs.

 

[CyberTaz]

Welcome back, Elliott -

I'd be embarrassed by the flattery were it not for the fact that I have such
respect & high regard for your insightful wisdom... Anyone able to
appositely call forth language such as 'apposite' is genuinely worthy of the
greatest esteem and far too formidable to be challenged.

The issue seems to be closely akin to what happens when such docs are sent
to physical printers. Some printers seem to handle the breaks with no
problem, others lock up on the same job. I do find it quite weird that the
doc described by the OP should trigger the behavior, though.

Couldn't agree more on the return-pounding 'solution'... I seriously doubt
it was proffered by any of the 'experts' to which Phillip alludes. That
certainly does nothing to accommodate multi-column layout, changes to page
orientation, etc.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Too much Bordeaux? Naahhh you can't have too much rough red

It's been over 24 hrs since we've heard back...




... Do you think it may be, perhaps, just the *opposite*?


Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

If that were true, it wouldn't work on the PC either It works
faultlessly on the PC.

Sorry: Word is, as far as I know, the only application out there that HAS
section breaks. So yeah, it does have a "unique" way of coding them

I do not know who gave you that advice, but the one thing they are NOT is a
publishing professional. I suspect they are an "expert" where X is the
mathematical symbol for the unknown, and a spurt is a drip under pressure.
Your advise has thus come from "Some unknown drip under pressure"

Cheers

The word from the adobe Acrobat Mac Newsgroup is: (Paraphrasing from
several of the experts on the Group)

"Word has a unique system of coding section Breaks , and page breaks
That no other Application uses. And there is something about these
codings That Acrobat has never, been able to decipher correctly, and
probably never will. To avoid such problems remove any and all page and
section breaks and create the breaks manually by adding appropriate
number of returns. It's a MS problem though, MS will likely deny it."

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Several actually own and operate Design Houses, at least one or two are
college professors , and some actually do technical writing/publishing
for a living. They say they get the same complaints on PC side as well.

Why shouldn't they.Isn't the underlying code for Office is identical for
all platforms, There are just differences in interface. and Key mapping.

If that were true, it wouldn't work on the PC either It works
faultlessly on the PC.

Sorry: Word is, as far as I know, the only application out there that HAS
section breaks. So yeah, it does have a "unique" way of coding them

I do not know who gave you that advice, but the one thing they are NOT is a
publishing professional. I suspect they are an "expert" where X is the
mathematical symbol for the unknown, and a spurt is a drip under pressure.
Your advise has thus come from "Some unknown drip under pressure"

Cheers

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Yeah, OK, I will concede that *everyone* complains about SOME aspect of
Acrobat


But its inability to properly handle section breaks is evident only in Mac
Word

Several actually own and operate Design Houses, at least one or two are
college professors , and some actually do technical writing/publishing
for a living. They say they get the same complaints on PC side as well.

Why shouldn't they.Isn't the underlying code for Office is identical for
all platforms, There are just differences in interface. and Key mapping.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[nsmcc]

OP here. Thank you all for your time. I'm glad to have provided you a
forum for good-natured, intellectual ribbing. I've been hitting the
bottle myself this week, mourning over my poor broken document.
On the topic at hand: in the past I have used page breaks with no
issue. Thus adding extra blank paragraphs would not be necessary.
This was my first foray into section breaks, because I wanted to have
different headers and this appears to be the only way to do this in
Word.
Ah well. I guess I'll be downloading some free stitch-ware.
Thank you to all who ventured into the Adobe user group to look around
there for more info--I really appreciate it, even though the net result
seems to be inconclusive.
Best regards,
Nora