suggestion for Microsoft

M

Mike Kelly

I have a suggestion for Microsoft regarding front page.

You should scrap front page extensions and create some kind of independent
code that could be uploaded to a server on along with all other pages
created by front page which would handle forms.

This code should not be dependant on anything that an isp would need to
install on their servers -- kind of like javascript.

Our isp has had big problems with front page extensions. They tell us that
front page extensions on unix servers can be problematic. I don't know how
true this is or not.

Alll I know is that having our forms sporadically working has cost us a lot
of time, money and aggravation.

We will probably migrate to some other solution for our forms because of all
of the problems we have had with front page forms.

I know that if microsoft chose to they could probably come up with a very
elegant solution. But perhaps marketing tactics in trying to get isps to
migrate to Microsoft server software is really what is at issue here.
Nevertheless, you run the risk of alienating your customers when things
don't work as expected.
 
T

Tom Pepper Willett

Submit to Microsoft Wish List:
http://register.microsoft.com/mswish/suggestion.asp
--
-----
Tom Pepper Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.microsoft.com/office/frontpage/prodinfo/default.mspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/frontpage/
----
| I have a suggestion for Microsoft regarding front page.
|
| You should scrap front page extensions and create some kind of independent
| code that could be uploaded to a server on along with all other pages
| created by front page which would handle forms.
|
| This code should not be dependant on anything that an isp would need to
| install on their servers -- kind of like javascript.
|
| Our isp has had big problems with front page extensions. They tell us that
| front page extensions on unix servers can be problematic. I don't know how
| true this is or not.
|
| Alll I know is that having our forms sporadically working has cost us a
lot
| of time, money and aggravation.
|
| We will probably migrate to some other solution for our forms because of
all
| of the problems we have had with front page forms.
|
| I know that if microsoft chose to they could probably come up with a very
| elegant solution. But perhaps marketing tactics in trying to get isps to
| migrate to Microsoft server software is really what is at issue here.
| Nevertheless, you run the risk of alienating your customers when things
| don't work as expected.
|
|
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

You have options for process forms when the extensions are not available or can not handle the forms
in the manner needed.

1. Unix/Linux Hosting Users can use CGI-Perl, PHP, CFM scripts for processing forms

2. Windows Hosting Users can use CGI-Perl, PHP, CFM, ASP, ASP.net scripts for processing forms

All depends on what you host supports or is will to install and support.

If a host can not get the extensions to work correctly, then they do not understand how to manage
and configure them correctly for their servers, no matter what OS they are running.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
S

Steve Easton

Mike, A lot of people agree with you.

Funny thing is though, I personally have never had a problem with extensions
on any site, and they all run on Apache/UNIX servers. ( only because they
are the first I ever tried )

I would tend to believe your host has issues with configuring extensions.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer
 
C

chris leeds

I don't work for ms and they've never done anything for me....except sell me
a copy of FrontPage. ;-)

the facts as I've uncovered them to be are that what you suggest can't be
done because of different server os's and such.
the FrontPage extensions actually do a whole lot more than just allowing
publishing. the extent that they goes is actually surprising when you
consider the extent to which you can use them.

What I've also found through years of needless trial and error is you've got
to find a windows host with properly maintained and understood server os,
and properly maintained FrontPage extensions if you really want to "lean" on
the extensions. Which makes sense since I'm sure that the developers built
it for a windows server and when charged with the duty of "making it work"
on a UNIX server figured out how to get it to "work" there too. Kind of
like auto engine designer makes a good engine to run on unleaded and then
makes provisions so it'll burn diesel.

There are plenty of good hosts. Perhaps you should find one. You'll never
go back. ;-)
 
S

Steve Easton

Actually the UNIX versions are written by Ready To Run software.
www.rtr.com

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer
 
C

chris leeds

so that'd make it even one more step away from the "horse's mouth" and
original intent.
 
M

MD Websunlimited

Hi Mike,

Never happen. With WSS and SPS MS is deeper into FPSE more that ever. The difference is that it is only support MS systems.
 
B

Bob

FP extensions are independent. They run on both Unix & MS servers.

You cannot collect and process data without a program on the server.
The web architecture does not allow for it. No way, no how.

Because they don't know what they are doing I expect.

FP Extensions are for very small businesses who can't afford to hire
a web developer/programmer to write or implement serious code for
them. They are basic in capabilities and have limited tolerance for
errors. If you are bigger than a mom-n-pop shop you need to stop
kidding yourself that you are a web developer and hire one.

I'm not trying to be condescending but that's the naked truth. Web
development is not WYSIWYG - despite what all those software packages
tell you on the cover. T

Good move.

Again, they work on all platforms. While MS *does* have a strategy to
capture customers in a ruthless fashion, the FP extensions are one of
the rare pieces that are not part of the strategy.
 
K

Kevin Spencer

It seems odd to me that nobody has mentioned one glaring fact: FrontPage
2003 has done exactly what the original poster requested. While it supports
previouis versions of FrontPage server extensions, there are no 2003 server
extensions, and Microsoft has no plans to create any future versions of the
server extensions. FrontPage 2003 works equally well with
non-server-extensions web sites.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

MD Websunlimited said:
Hi Mike,

Never happen. With WSS and SPS MS is deeper into FPSE more that ever. The
Click to expand...
difference is that it is only support MS systems.
 
D

Doug G

As far as I know, all forms require some sort of scripting engine to be
"installed" on the hosting web server. Some use what are called "CGI
scripts", others use things like PHP, but they all require server-side
execution. Comparing them to Javascript is not a valid comparison --
Javascript is something that is executed by your browser in the context of
the PC that the browser is running on. Even something as simple as a form to
send email requires a script on the server, executed by a script engine of
some sort, to take the parameters entered on the form, put them into an
email message, and send the email message out using the web connection from
the server.

The big issue with Frontpage is that it does lock you into using the
Frontpage support software on the server side, making your web site less
transportable to other servers or to other web development tools. For
myself, I use a different web development package that lets me utilize any
scripting package that the server happens to support.

Doug G
 
J

Jack Brewster

As a point of clarification, the only time you're locked into use FrontPage
support software (FrontPage Server Extensions, Sharepoint, WSS) is if you
use FrontPage specific functions, such as the form handlers. If you use
third party handlers, hit counters, etc. then you can use FrontPage to build
and maintain your site without a dependency on the server side. You could,
in fact, use it to FTP your site to a Unix server running Apache with no
server extensions and get along just fine.

For new users who can't even spell "CGI" :) let alone know what it does,
having the capability of working with a FrontPage extended hosting service
can save a lot of headache and reduce the learning curve. Are the extended
functions the best? Well, lets just say that I don't use them personally
and leave it at that. But I still use FP to manage my site and the features
that _don't_ require an extended server are real time savers (such as FP
Includes).
 
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