support scenario for vista and office 2007

J

John Jay Smith

no one has addressed the stupid Perl. Another stupid idea.. that doesnt look
like button you should press, rather a logo of the program.

no one has addressed how computer support people are going to give
instructions via telephone
with this stupid 2007 interface...

let me give you an example of what i mean with XP and Vista:

Support Helpdesk

On winXP: go to Start then all programs bla bla..

on Vista :
-Go to start.
- I see no start anywhere...
- Oh you are using Vista?
-Yeah...Im new to computers....
-Ok great...see the perl?
-what perl?
-that round thing with a flag in it...
-Where? I dont see no flag...
-In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that has 4
colors inside..
-Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl? It
doesnt look like a perl....
-Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!!


Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible
ribbon.....

its gonna be a circus!!!!
 
M

Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Take your valium and go to bed like a good patient - I am sure the morning
nurses will have stronger meds for you then.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, John Jay Smith asked:

| no one has addressed the stupid Perl. Another stupid idea.. that
| doesnt look like button you should press, rather a logo of the
| program.
|
| no one has addressed how computer support people are going to give
| instructions via telephone
| with this stupid 2007 interface...
|
| let me give you an example of what i mean with XP and Vista:
|
| Support Helpdesk
|
| On winXP: go to Start then all programs bla bla..
|
| on Vista :
| -Go to start.
| - I see no start anywhere...
| - Oh you are using Vista?
| -Yeah...Im new to computers....
| -Ok great...see the perl?
| -what perl?
| -that round thing with a flag in it...
| -Where? I dont see no flag...
| -In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that
| has 4 colors inside..
| -Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl?
| It doesnt look like a perl....
| -Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!!
|
|
| Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible
| ribbon.....
|
| its gonna be a circus!!!!
 
J

John Jay Smith

Take your valium and go to bed like a good patient - I am sure the morning
nurses will have stronger meds for you then.
Click to expand...


Another limited view from a limited mind. Just because its night over there
does not mean its
night over here... gesshhhh Earth is a sphere you know! (do you?) And I dont
take Valium...

You apply this flexibity of thought when you use GUI's like Office2007?
No wonder you like em! Point n click, no time to think!

You are wrapping that ribbon arround your eyes.. and using the perl for
earplugs..





"Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]"
Take your valium and go to bed like a good patient - I am sure the morning
nurses will have stronger meds for you then.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, John Jay Smith asked:

| no one has addressed the stupid Perl. Another stupid idea.. that
| doesnt look like button you should press, rather a logo of the
| program.
|
| no one has addressed how computer support people are going to give
| instructions via telephone
| with this stupid 2007 interface...
|
| let me give you an example of what i mean with XP and Vista:
|
| Support Helpdesk
|
| On winXP: go to Start then all programs bla bla..
|
| on Vista :
| -Go to start.
| - I see no start anywhere...
| - Oh you are using Vista?
| -Yeah...Im new to computers....
| -Ok great...see the perl?
| -what perl?
| -that round thing with a flag in it...
| -Where? I dont see no flag...
| -In the lower left corner of your screen. That rectangular thing that
| has 4 colors inside..
| -Thats a flag? I dont think its a flag.. And you call this the Perl?
| It doesnt look like a perl....
| -Well JUST PRESS that DAMN THINGY!!!
|
|
| Not take this and apply it to the perl in office and the horrible
| ribbon.....
|
| its gonna be a circus!!!!
Click to expand...
 
B

Beth Melton

Dear Mr. John Jay Smith,

I haven't quite decided if you are a merely a troll or if you are
actually attempting to have a intellectual discussion on Office 2007.

If you are nothing more than a troll then there is nothing you need to
change but do note we'll no longer feed you in this newsgroup.

If you are attempting to have an intellectual discussion on what you
view as failing points for Office 2007 then jumping to conclusions and
making uneducated observations is not the route to take. For example,
if you want to have a discussion on how to describe the Microsoft
Office Button then why not simply ask how others have described it?

In regards to the Windows Vista Start Button, I'd say most users have
seen the Windows logo on the button for some time now and just because
the text is no longer being used doesn't mean the visual association
has changed. Besides, the concept of using an image instead of text,
or image and text, was introduced long ago.

Now the rest is up to you, will it be: intellectual discussion or
ignored?

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/community/article_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
J

John Jay Smith

Whats your problem joe?

I dont like office 2007 GUI design and I am stating all the reasons why...
I think its a bad design! Cant handle the criticism? You want people to
tickle your
ears...? You call everyone who disagrees with you a troll? How clever!

This is a free and open NEWSGROUP. So I am posting NEWS..
NEWS that Office2007 GUI sucks.....

if you want to discuss this fine.. but it wont change the facts....

You MVPs seem to have some sort of problem...

You like microsoft so much you are compleatly blind about the horrible
mistakes its doing
in the designs of Vista, Office2007, IE and WMP...

I would expect microsoft to have the best people on the world working on the
GUI's of these programs that millions will use..
Instead they are doing mistakes only amatures should do!
 
J

John Jay Smith

Normally I am very polite. I am blunt here for a reason & on purpose... to
get the message across
and make it clear that office2007 gui is horrible... and it needs a remake
from scratch.

If I was to say.. "gee guys... good job, but you know... perhaps it would be
better if...."

Ahhh noooo!..... no one will notice.... therefore: The new OFFICE GUI is a
horrible
revolting, monstrous, hideous, abomination of super duper proportions!!!

Now... just because I say this does not mean I am not positive. You
mix up what seems like negative and what is truly negative.

If the MS office GUI team was smart they would listen and improve...

I wonder who originally thought of the stupid ribbon.. does anyone know? I
gotta tell him my 2 cents...

I like office... and I would like to see MS doing things that would
pleasantly surprise me...
not surprise me of how stupid it is!
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Normally I am very polite. I am blunt here for a reason & on
purpose... to
get the message across
and make it clear that office2007 gui is horrible... and it needs a remake
from scratch.
Click to expand...
You are addressing the wrong audience. You are only talking with peers,
namely users like you. Microsoft doesn't check these newsgroups nor does
anyone of us work for Microsoft. The only people replying to your posts
are peers volunteering their time.
It would be nice and appropriate if you treated us with some respect and
post in a positive manner, as we are then more inclined to have a
discussion with you about this topic.
Just to be clear though: Microsoft won't ditch the ribbon for Office
2007 and most of what you see is going to stay the way it is or has been
announced right now.

Patrick Schmid
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi John,

To send feedback on your experience with the MS Office 2007 Beta product, bugs and suggested improvements *directly* to the
Microsoft Office 2007 Product team you can use the 2007 feedback tool from link #3 below.

The blog that Jensen Harris maintains is the MS Office User Interface (Ribbon et al) blog and you can also post comments and
questions there that will also go directly to that team
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh

==========
<<"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Normally I am very polite. I am blunt here for a reason & on purpose... to
get the message across
and make it clear that office2007 gui is horrible... and it needs a remake
from scratch.

If I was to say.. "gee guys... good job, but you know... perhaps it would be
better if...."

Ahhh noooo!..... no one will notice.... therefore: The new OFFICE GUI is a
horrible
revolting, monstrous, hideous, abomination of super duper proportions!!!

Now... just because I say this does not mean I am not positive. You
mix up what seems like negative and what is truly negative.

If the MS office GUI team was smart they would listen and improve...

I wonder who originally thought of the stupid ribbon.. does anyone know? I
gotta tell him my 2 cents...

I like office... and I would like to see MS doing things that would
pleasantly surprise me...
not surprise me of how stupid it is! >>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office system products MVP

LINKS to the 2007 Office System

1. Free MS Office 2007 book from MS Press, 213 pages:
http://microsoft.com/learning/office2007/default.mspx#booksfrommspress

2.. Office 2007 Beta 2 Online Test Drive, Downloadable beta,
e-learning courses, doucmentation and movies:
http://microsoft.com/office/preview

3. Send 2007 Office System Beta 2 feedback directly to the MS Office 2007 product team with this feedback tool:
http://sas.office.microsoft.com/

4. Try the 2007 OfficeOnline preview website , without Office2007

a. Install the ActiveX access control
http://office.microsoft.com/search/redir.aspx?AssetID=XT101650581033

b. then visit
http://officebeta.iponet.net
 
J

John Jay Smith

thanks


Bob Buckland ?:-) said:
Hi John,

To send feedback on your experience with the MS Office 2007 Beta product,
bugs and suggested improvements *directly* to the
Microsoft Office 2007 Product team you can use the 2007 feedback tool from
link #3 below.

The blog that Jensen Harris maintains is the MS Office User Interface
(Ribbon et al) blog and you can also post comments and
questions there that will also go directly to that team
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh

==========
<<"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
Normally I am very polite. I am blunt here for a reason & on purpose... to
get the message across
and make it clear that office2007 gui is horrible... and it needs a remake
from scratch.

If I was to say.. "gee guys... good job, but you know... perhaps it would
be
better if...."

Ahhh noooo!..... no one will notice.... therefore: The new OFFICE GUI is a
horrible
revolting, monstrous, hideous, abomination of super duper proportions!!!

Now... just because I say this does not mean I am not positive. You
mix up what seems like negative and what is truly negative.

If the MS office GUI team was smart they would listen and improve...

I wonder who originally thought of the stupid ribbon.. does anyone know? I
gotta tell him my 2 cents...

I like office... and I would like to see MS doing things that would
pleasantly surprise me...
not surprise me of how stupid it is! >>
--
I hope this helped you,

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office system products MVP


LINKS to the 2007 Office System

1. Free MS Office 2007 book from MS Press, 213 pages:
http://microsoft.com/learning/office2007/default.mspx#booksfrommspress

2.. Office 2007 Beta 2 Online Test Drive, Downloadable beta,
e-learning courses, doucmentation and movies:
http://microsoft.com/office/preview

3. Send 2007 Office System Beta 2 feedback directly to the MS Office 2007
product team with this feedback tool:
http://sas.office.microsoft.com/

4. Try the 2007 OfficeOnline preview website , without Office2007

a. Install the ActiveX access control

http://office.microsoft.com/search/redir.aspx?AssetID=XT101650581033

b. then visit
http://officebeta.iponet.net
Click to expand...
 
J

John Jay Smith

it will not ditch it beacause its too late however i see 2 things happening:
1) In a service pack they will introduce the ability to go back to the older
gui
2) They will add the ability to customize the ribbon.

If I can customize all the elements (icons and sizes) it could be usable.

People will request it.. no demand this from microsoft and even though
we all know how much attention ms gives to the users.. they will be forced
to impliment these 2.
 
B

Beth Melton

I doubt they'll ever go back to the old UI - the old command bars
don't offer the same capabilities as the ribbon. As much as I didn't
like it at first there are some pretty cool new features and actually,
the more I use it the more it grows on me. I think I'm diggin' the
galleries and live preview the most. I've never been much for
eye-candy but the way the galleries change, such as table styles,
shape styles, QuickParts (AutoText), with the document theme makes it
simple to insert new elements that are already formatted and live
preview makes it easy to select a format. Previously I had a macro
that I would use to type some text and then the macro would create a
new document with the text in all of the fonts. Seriously!

Personally, I tend to leave the ribbon minimized and have added all of
the commands/groups I use the most to the QAT. Funny how it bears an
odd resemblance to my toolbar in the previous versions. ;-) And I've
started adding/removing various commands to the QAT depending on what
type of work I'm doing since it's as easy as a right-clicking the
command you want to add or remove.

I have my fingers crossed that they will include the ability to easily
customize the ribbon as a standard component - I'd even be happy if
they created with an add-in. I do know they've heard feedback on this
aspect many, many times so we can only wait and see.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/community/article_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

John Jay Smith said:
it will not ditch it beacause its too late however i see 2 things
happening:
1) In a service pack they will introduce the ability to go back to
the older gui
2) They will add the ability to customize the ribbon.

If I can customize all the elements (icons and sizes) it could be
usable.

People will request it.. no demand this from microsoft and even
though
we all know how much attention ms gives to the users.. they will be
forced
to impliment these 2.
Click to expand...
 
J

John Jay Smith

someone here is creating an add in for the customization of the ribbon.


Beth Melton said:
I doubt they'll ever go back to the old UI - the old command bars don't
offer the same capabilities as the ribbon. As much as I didn't like it at
first there are some pretty cool new features and actually, the more I use
it the more it grows on me. I think I'm diggin' the galleries and live
preview the most. I've never been much for eye-candy but the way the
galleries change, such as table styles, shape styles, QuickParts
(AutoText), with the document theme makes it simple to insert new elements
that are already formatted and live preview makes it easy to select a
format. Previously I had a macro that I would use to type some text and
then the macro would create a new document with the text in all of the
fonts. Seriously!

Personally, I tend to leave the ribbon minimized and have added all of the
commands/groups I use the most to the QAT. Funny how it bears an odd
resemblance to my toolbar in the previous versions. ;-) And I've started
adding/removing various commands to the QAT depending on what type of work
I'm doing since it's as easy as a right-clicking the command you want to
add or remove.

I have my fingers crossed that they will include the ability to easily
customize the ribbon as a standard component - I'd even be happy if they
created with an add-in. I do know they've heard feedback on this aspect
many, many times so we can only wait and see.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/community/article_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
Click to expand...
 
B

Beth Melton

I know Patrick Schmidt has created such an add-in but my viewpoint is
more for the user perspective rather than my own. Sure I know about
it, those who follow the newsgroups know about it, maybe if someone
searches the web they may find out about it, but if it's created by
Microsoft they have the capability to make its availability known
through Help, product support, on microsoft.com, etc.

Also, not that Patrick's add-in isn't good :), but it should also be
something Microsoft supports. Based on Microsoft's "ratings" 2% of
Office users customize their toolbars. I think that number is a bit
off but even 2% is a LOT of users. Poor Patrick would end up spending
all of his time supporting his add-in. Plus I know he can't say "no"
so I'm sure a good portion of his time would be spent customizing his
add-in for others. Okay, so I may be exaggerating a bit but I think
you get my point.

Plus, if Microsoft does provide this functionality it will be
considered a "win" for user feedback. Microsoft says they are
listening and I want evidence. :)
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/community/article_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Also, not that Patrick's add-in isn't good :), but it should also be
something Microsoft supports. Based on Microsoft's "ratings" 2% of
Office users customize their toolbars. I think that number is a bit
off but even 2% is a LOT of users. Poor Patrick would end up spending
Click to expand...
Thankfully that math isn't quite right :)
It actually comes out to a few tens of thousands of users only (still a
lot, but a lot less than the 8 million the 2% of 400 million Office
users would be). The reason for the much lower number is that only those
did any serious customization (more than three buttons). So everyone
else should be fine with just the QAT.
That is of course if you don't believe that Microsoft's numbers in this
case are massively skewed as most people who did customize also probably
turned off the statistical reporting feature...
all of his time supporting his add-in. Plus I know he can't say "no"
so I'm sure a good portion of his time would be spent customizing his
add-in for others. Okay, so I may be exaggerating a bit but I think
you get my point.
Click to expand...
Very valid point :)

You actually forgot two more points:
- the add-in is actually quite difficult and complicated to write. There
are all sorts of things you need to work around as there are
shortcomings, quirks and special behaviors in the new Office ribbon
customization model. For example, simply removing a group from a tab
works in two different ways depending whether the group was made by
Microsoft and is on its original tab, or whether the group was not made
by Microsoft and/or is not on its original tab...
- I am torn between providing an add-in that fixes a clear issue in 2007
for free as I think everyone should have the ability to customize their
2007 UI and getting some return on the serious amount of time invested
into the project.
Plus, if Microsoft does provide this functionality it will be
considered a "win" for user feedback. Microsoft says they are
listening and I want evidence. :)
Click to expand...
Hehehe :)

Patrick Schmid
 
B

Beth Melton

Thankfully that math isn't quite right :)
LOL

It actually comes out to a few tens of thousands of users only
(still a lot, but a lot less than the 8 million the 2% of 400
million Office users would be). The reason for the much lower number
is that only those did any serious customization (more than three
buttons). So everyone else should be fine with just the QAT.
That is of course if you don't believe that Microsoft's numbers in
this case are massively skewed as most people who did customize also
probably turned off the statistical reporting feature...
Click to expand...

I know I did. It's back on now and I do my best to send as many data
points as I can when it comes to customization and toolbars. In my
Office classes I make sure CEIP is turned on for every workstation so
every customization said:
Very valid point :)
:)

You actually forgot two more points:
- the add-in is actually quite difficult and complicated to write.
There are all sorts of things you need to work around as there are
shortcomings, quirks and special behaviors in the new Office ribbon
customization model. For example, simply removing a group from a tab
works in two different ways depending whether the group was made by
Microsoft and is on its original tab, or whether the group was not
made by Microsoft and/or is not on its original tab...
- I am torn between providing an add-in that fixes a clear issue in
2007 for free as I think everyone should have the ability to
customize their 2007 UI and getting some return on the serious
amount of time invested into the project.
Click to expand...

These are great points - especially the last one. You have invested a
great deal of time in this project and while helping others is GREAT
thing, but indeed, time is money...
Hehehe :)
Click to expand...


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Office 2007 Preview Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/default.mspx
Office 2007 Community Articles/Tutorials:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/community/article_archive.mspx

TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
P

Patrick Schmid

That is of course if you don't believe that Microsoft's numbers in
I know I did. It's back on now and I do my best to send as many data
points as I can when it comes to customization and toolbars. In my
Office classes I make sure CEIP is turned on for every workstation so
every customization, every tear-off menu/toolbar is recorded. <grin>
Click to expand...
I was always very diligent about switching that phone-home feature
off...Until I got the first beta and realized how much an impact it had!
Since then, I make sure as well that CEIP is always turned on. I learnt
my lesson...
These are great points - especially the last one. You have invested a
great deal of time in this project and while helping others is GREAT
thing, but indeed, time is money...
Click to expand...
Especially if you are living on a graduate student stipend... I think I
have started this thing from scratch three times now. I am just curious
if I'll have to do that again once B2TR is out...

Patrick Schmid
 
Top