table style question, space before and after

[bmurphy]

I want space both before and after a table, but not between rows of a
table.

Can someone please point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Brian Murphy

 

[Terry Farrell]

Immediately following a table is a paragraph formatting mark (the reversed P
symbol or pilcrow): this holds the formatting parameters of the table. If
you select it (it should select the whole table) and you can use Format,
Paragraph and set the Space Before and Space After settings.

 

[bmurphy]

Hmmmm. I'm using Word 2003, and I don't see any pilcrow at the end of
a table. There's a pilcrow at the end of the paragraph that is right
after the table, and it's formatted as Body Text.

It seems like something is not right with Word. In the table style
assigned to the table, for the Header Row I set 12 points space
before, and this does just what I want and what I expect. When I set
12 points space after for the Last Row, this does nothing! Is there
some trick to getting that to work?

I just discovered that if I set double line spacing for the Last Row,
that seems to produce 12 points of space after just the last row.
That will be good enough for this particular situation since my tables
only have one line of text in the last row. It wouldn't work
otherwise.

Brian

 

[bmurphy]

No good. Double spacing on the last row doesn't create any space
after if the table only has one row. Darn.

Brian

 

[Stefan Blom]

You can add some Spacing After (Format | Paragraph, Indents and Spacing tab)
to the paragraph mark following the table.

Note that if the paragraph below has Spacing Before, Word will only display
the larger amount of the two settings for Spacing Before and After.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I usually just add Space After to the text before the table and Space Before
to the paragraph after the table. I have a Body Text Space Before style that
I use for this and other applications where I want to leave extra space
above a paragraph.

 

[bmurphy]

I can't seem to find a paragraph mark after a table (Word 2003).

Is there some trick to finding it?

At the end of the last row of the table I see only a little square.

The very next line after the last row of the table is the first line
of the next paragraph.

Brian

 

[bmurphy]

I would like to avoid using special styles in special places.

If the table style would actually put in the space after the last row,
I would have what I want. But something is preventing it from showing
up, even though the style has a setting for it, which I have set
accordingly.

I see this as either a bug, or there is some subtlety about how to go
about setting that option in the table style. Perhaps there is some
setting somewhere that is overriding it or disabling it.

Brian

 

[Terry Farrell]

If you don't put a 'blank paragraph' between the table and the following
text paragraph, then the table attributes are stored with the paragraph mark
of the following text para. I never understood why this should be so, but
unfortunately, its the way it works. To get a blank paragraph below the
table, put the cursor at the beginning of the following text paragraph and
press enter. The new para mark then stores the table attributes.

Terry

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Are you sure about this, Terry? I thought the table attributes were stored
in the end-of-table marker. The requirement for a normal text paragraph
after a table at the end of a document is to store the *document* (that is,
section) formatting. I'm not sure what the required empty paragraph after a
table in the Header/Footer is supposed to for, though.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I don't see much difference between this and using unindented paragraphs
following left-aligned headings even though the remainder of the text
paragraphs have a first-line indent. The whole concept of styles is to apply
the formatting that is required for a given purpose, and I see the paragraph
after a table as meeting this test. I set the "Style for following
paragraph" to be whatever flavor of Body Text I'm using for the main
portion, so it's (almost) effortless.

 

[Terry Farrell]

Suzanne

This is something I have always had a hard time getting my head around. I
find that if there is a blank para following the table, I can select the
table and use format, para to add space below to adjust the space between
the table and following para. If there isn't a blank para, then selecting
the table and adding Space Below adds the space to the table cells. I'll
have to play with this some more but these results seem to contradict the
formatting being held in the final cell marker. (Maybe this is only true if
there is nothing following the table other than the para mark?)

Terry

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

When you add space below to that blank paragraph, you're adding it to the
paragraph. If you have nonprinting characters displayed, this is very
evident. The paragraph alone, if left empty, creates space below the table,
too, but I don't leave empty paragraphs anywhere except when absolutely
necessary (as between a TOC and a section break or between TOCs).

Suzanne

This is something I have always had a hard time getting my head around. I
find that if there is a blank para following the table, I can select the
table and use format, para to add space below to adjust the space between
the table and following para. If there isn't a blank para, then selecting
the table and adding Space Below adds the space to the table cells. I'll
have to play with this some more but these results seem to contradict the
formatting being held in the final cell marker. (Maybe this is only true if
there is nothing following the table other than the para mark?)

Terry

Are you sure about this, Terry? I thought the table attributes were stored
in the end-of-table marker. The requirement for a normal text paragraph
after a table at the end of a document is to store the *document* (that
is,
section) formatting. I'm not sure what the required empty paragraph after
a
table in the Header/Footer is supposed to for, though.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

If you don't put a 'blank paragraph' between the table and the following
text paragraph, then the table attributes are stored with the paragraph mark
of the following text para. I never understood why this should be so, but
unfortunately, its the way it works. To get a blank paragraph below the
table, put the cursor at the beginning of the following text paragraph
and
press enter. The new para mark then stores the table attributes.

Terry

I can't seem to find a paragraph mark after a table (Word 2003).

Is there some trick to finding it?

At the end of the last row of the table I see only a little square.

The very next line after the last row of the table is the first line
of the next paragraph.

Brian



You can add some Spacing After (Format | Paragraph, Indents and
Spacing
tab)
to the paragraph mark following the table.

Note that if the paragraph below has Spacing Before, Word will only
display
the larger amount of the two settings for Spacing Before and After.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



No good. Double spacing on the last row doesn't create any space
after if the table only has one row. Darn.

Brian

On Sep 15, 8:26 pm, [email protected] wrote:
Hmmmm. I'm using Word 2003, and I don't see any pilcrow at the

end
of

a table. There's a pilcrow at the end of the paragraph that is right
after the table, and it's formatted as Body Text.

It seems like something is not right with Word. In the table style
assigned to the table, for the Header Row I set 12 points space
before, and this does just what I want and what I expect. When I set
12 points space after for the Last Row, this does nothing! Is
there
some trick to getting that to work?

I just discovered that if I set double line spacing for the Last Row,
that seems to produce 12 points of space after just the last row.
That will be good enough for this particular situation since my tables
only have one line of text in the last row. It wouldn't work
otherwise.

Brian

 

[Terry Farrell]

Suzanne

I rarely leave empty paras the exceptions being similar - under ToCs and
under Tables. But I am looking into the latter at the moment.

Terry

When you add space below to that blank paragraph, you're adding it to the
paragraph. If you have nonprinting characters displayed, this is very
evident. The paragraph alone, if left empty, creates space below the
table,
too, but I don't leave empty paragraphs anywhere except when absolutely
necessary (as between a TOC and a section break or between TOCs).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

Suzanne

This is something I have always had a hard time getting my head around. I
find that if there is a blank para following the table, I can select the
table and use format, para to add space below to adjust the space between
the table and following para. If there isn't a blank para, then selecting
the table and adding Space Below adds the space to the table cells. I'll
have to play with this some more but these results seem to contradict the
formatting being held in the final cell marker. (Maybe this is only true if
there is nothing following the table other than the para mark?)

Terry

 

[bmurphy]

Do y'all agree that if you go Modify / Table Style/Last Row/Paragraph/
Space After that this should add the elusive space after a table?

I'm still hoping that if this is done in just the right way, it will
work.

Brian Murphy
Austin, Texas

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It should add the space after the paragraph, but it will likely still be
inside the table. This won't matter unless you're using borders, but if you
are, it won't be helpful.

 

[Stefan Blom]

But I agree with the OP that what we really want here is "spacing below the
table" rather than "spacing above the following paragraph of text." In other
words, logically speaking, the spacing should, ideally, be tied to the table
(and it should be applied below any bottom border). Of course, this cannot be
accomplished in Word, so we do the second best thing...

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Oh, I have no argument with that. How long have we been asking for this type
of formatting? But, as you say, until we get what we really need, we have to
use a workaround. (Another thing I hope to see before I die is a "Keep with
previous" property.)

 

[bmurphy]

In my particular case (I'm using tables to handle equation captions)
my tables have no borders. When I set this option to any number of
points, no space is added anywhere that I can see, inside or outside
the table.

Do you get something different when you do this?

Brian

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

If I add Space After to a paragraph in a table, I get Space After that
paragraph (inside the table), but it would not make a difference if the row
height were set to an Exact amount (the vertical alignment of the cell
contents might make a difference, too).

In my particular case (I'm using tables to handle equation captions)
my tables have no borders. When I set this option to any number of
points, no space is added anywhere that I can see, inside or outside
the table.

Do you get something different when you do this?

Brian

It should add the space after the paragraph, but it will likely still be
inside the table. This won't matter unless you're using borders, but if you
are, it won't be helpful.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site:http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Do y'all agree that if you go Modify / Table Style/Last Row/Paragraph/
Space After that this should add the elusive space after a table?

I'm still hoping that if this is done in just the right way, it will
work.

Brian Murphy
Austin, Texas

Suzanne

I rarely leave empty paras the exceptions being similar - under ToCs and
under Tables. But I am looking into the latter at the moment.

Terry
message


When you add space below to that blank paragraph, you're adding it

to
the

paragraph. If you have nonprinting characters displayed, this is very
evident. The paragraph alone, if left empty, creates space below the
table,
too, but I don't leave empty paragraphs anywhere except when absolutely
necessary (as between a TOC and a section break or between TOCs).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site:http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

Suzanne

This is something I have always had a hard time getting my head around. I
find that if there is a blank para following the table, I can

select
the

table and use format, para to add space below to adjust the space between
the table and following para. If there isn't a blank para, then selecting
the table and adding Space Below adds the space to the table

cells.
I'll

have to play with this some more but these results seem to

contradict
the

formatting being held in the final cell marker. (Maybe this is

only
true

if
there is nothing following the table other than the para mark?)

Are you sure about this, Terry? I thought the table attributes were
stored
in the end-of-table marker. The requirement for a normal text paragraph
after a table at the end of a document is to store the

*document*
(that

is,
section) formatting. I'm not sure what the required empty paragraph
after
a
table in the Header/Footer is supposed to for, though.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site:http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

If you don't put a 'blank paragraph' between the table and the
following
text paragraph, then the table attributes are stored with the
paragraph
mark
of the following text para. I never understood why this should

be
so,

but
unfortunately, its the way it works. To get a blank paragraph below
the
table, put the cursor at the beginning of the following text paragraph
and
press enter. The new para mark then stores the table

attributes.

Terry

I can't seem to find a paragraph mark after a table (Word

2003).

Is there some trick to finding it?

At the end of the last row of the table I see only a little square.

The very next line after the last row of the table is the

first
line

of the next paragraph.