What about modeling real life dependencies?

S

Stephen Barry

Trevor,

Great reply - picked up a couple of good tips from that.

However, one of the challenges that I have (and I suspect also the original post) is that dependencies are not as clear cut in real life as they are in project. When you have a dependency between task A and B, MSP pretty much assumes that task B can't start until task A is complete and gets its knickers in a twist when you start saying that task B has started before task A (or completed before task A has). The trouble is modeling the "actual" dependencies in these cases would likely take longer than real life takes to live. Any suggestions on how to handle / model these softer dependencies?

I'm also struggling with patrial critical paths when constraining some tasks.

And... the that fact that you can't use task data for calculations in resource view and visa versa.

In actual fact - I really don't like MSP that much!

Cheers

Stephen.




Trevor Rabey wrote:

Smagma's question is fairly confused, not getting off to a good starttalking
05-Dec-09

Smagma's question is fairly confused, not getting off to a good star
talking about Work rather than Tasks, but everythinbg he wants to do wit
tracking can be done

This is from an earlier thread in August 2008

MSP knows about three aspects of any Task
a.. Duration (measured in Working Days
b.. Cost (measured in Dollars
c.. Work (measured in Hours)
Most of the fields needed for Tracking, the important ones, are in th
Tracking Table
There are four important numbers associated with these three aspects of an
Task

DURATIO
a.. Total Duratio
b.. Actual Duratio
c.. Remaining Duratio
d.. % Complete = Actual/Tota
COS
a.. Total Cos
b.. Actual Cos
c.. Remaining Cos
d.. % Cost Complete = Actual/Tota
WOR
a.. Total Wor
b.. Actual Wor
c.. Remaining Wor
d.. % Work Complete = Actual/Tota
There are built-in fields for all of these, except % Cost Complete, and i
is easy to make one for this by using a spare Text field
Only any two of these are independent, since Actual + Remaining = Total

Be especially careful about using % Complete, which is about Duration, t
represent how much of the Task has been done
Note that in MSP, % Complete is about the Duration, only
MSP does not know (directly) about the progress of the Task itself
Only the person who looks at the Task can know how much of it is done, ho
much remains and how long that will take, ie what the Remaining Duration is
Only the person who looks at the Task can make a decision about the estimat
of the Remaining Duration
The Remaining Duration is the really important number because, as we saw
this is what has an effect on the Successor Tasks and the Project Finis
Date
Estimating the Remaining Duration when a Task is part complete is a secon
chance to get the estimate right after an observation of how the Task i
going
A Task is usually about something like laying the bricks or pouring th
concrete, and this gives rise to 4 similar values associated with the Tas
itself
a.. Total Tas
b.. Actual Tas
c.. Remaining Tas
d.. % Task Complete = Actual/Tota
A Task can also be something relatively easy to measure, such as "Lay 1000
bricks", or less tangible than laying bricks, but no less manageable, suc
as "Write A Report" or "Draw a Drawing"
This is where the human judgement and estimating come in, in judging th
progress and the production rate and deciding whether the original estimat
was good or bad, and whether a re-estimate, and a change to the Remainin
Duration, is required
Some Tasks, such as laying bricks, are easy to measure
These Tasks, the ones that are easy to measure, can have longer Durations
Other Tasks, which are harder to measure, must have shorter Durations, o
they will not be controllable
Be wary of any progress for anything being reported as "x%"
If presented with such a number, ask "x% of what?
A percent measurement of anything must always have a numerator and
denominator, and you should be clear about what they are in every case

With so much data available, and calculations being done by MSP in th
background, it is essential to have a standard, reliable, repeatable way of
setting up MSP so that you can see what you are doing when logging progress
and updating the project plan.


This checklist/procedure is intended, primarily, to ensure that before you
start Tracking and updating that you can see what you are doing.
You may wish to develop your own procedure, but make sure you can see what
you are doing:
1.. Save a Baseline (Tools, Tracking, Save Baseline)
2.. Set a Status Date (Project, Project Information, Status Date)
3.. Show Tracking Gantt View (View, Tracking Gantt)
4.. Show Tracking Table (View, Table, Tracking)
5.. Show Tracking Toolbar (View, Toolbar, Tracking )
6.. Format Gridlines to show the Status Date, Current Date, Start Date etc
((Format, Gridlines)
Record keeping is the key to having the necessary, accurate, data when you
need it.
You need to work out exactly what records are needed and ensure that they
are kept.
Many projects do not maintain accurate records, which makes meaningful
tracking impossible.
When logging progress, start with getting the answers to simple questions
which are based on objective records and the facts:
1.. When did the Task Actually Start (if it has started)?
2.. What has been the Actual Duration?

Previous Posts In This Thread:

Critical Path vs. Partially Complete Tasks
Hi MSP gurus,

I found the following post in another forum (forums.cnet.com) -
unfortunately without an answer.

I guy named smagma asked:

"Is there a way to force MS Project (2003) to calculate the Critical
Path from Remaining Work instead of Total Work? If I have 5 tasks
ordered by precedence, and one in the middle is 50% complete, the
final delivery date should not include time of the completed portion.
Similarly, is there a way to force all incomplete work to be
automatically pushed to out to the future?"

I think it is an interesting question since this issue will arise often
during tracking.
Cheers Michael

Hello Michael,< to force all incomplete work to be automatically pushed to out
Hello Michael,
< to force all incomplete work to be automatically pushed to out to the
future>
Tools / Tracking / Update Project / Reschedule uncompleted work to strat
after....

G?rard Ducouret

(e-mail address removed)...

Hello - I see my fellow MVP Gerard has addressed the important part of
Hello - I see my fellow MVP Gerard has addressed the important part of the
question. I wanted to add a little more concerning the critical path.

CP is calculated based on duration, not work. CP is the longest path
through the network defining the shortest duration in which the project can
be completed. It is not the path containing the most work.

As for a task chain A-B-C-D-E-F that is on the critical path. If task D is
50% complete then by definition A,B,C should already be 100% complete and be
behind you. So, you can execute the steps Gerard gave you to move incomplete
work (and remaining duration) ahead of you. Changing the remaing work to be
ahead of you often changes the critical path.

Undertandably, the real world can certainly cause us to start execution of a
task using different logic than presented in the schedule. Of course, strive
to have correctly linked tasks.
--
If this post was helpful, please consider rating it.

Jim Aksel, MVP

Check out my blog for more information:
http://www.msprojectblog.com



:

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01CA75FB.BF749490
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Michael,

You might like to see my explanation of critical path on our FAQ page at =
this web address: http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm Click the Network =
Analysis button on the left.

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on :)

Mike Glen
Project MVP
See http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc for my free Project Tutorials=20
Hello - I see my fellow MVP Gerard has addressed the important part of =
the=20
question. I wanted to add a little more concerning the critical path.

CP is calculated based on duration, not work. CP is the longest path=20
through the network defining the shortest duration in which the =
project can=20
be completed. It is not the path containing the most work.

As for a task chain A-B-C-D-E-F that is on the critical path. If task =
D is=20
50% complete then by definition A,B,C should already be 100% complete =
and be=20
behind you. So, you can execute the steps Gerard gave you to move =
incomplete=20
work (and remaining duration) ahead of you. Changing the remaing work =
to be=20
ahead of you often changes the critical path.

Undertandably, the real world can certainly cause us to start =
execution of a=20
task using different logic than presented in the schedule. Of course, =
strive=20
to have correctly linked tasks.
--=20
If this post was helpful, please consider rating it.

Jim Aksel, MVP

Check out my blog for more information:
http://www.msprojectblog.com



:

portion.
often
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DWindows-1252 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.7600.16444"></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: =
15px"=20
id=3DMailContainerBody leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 =
CanvasTabStop=3D"true"=20
name=3D"Compose message area">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Hi Michael,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">You might like to =
see&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">my explanation of critical path on our FAQ page =
at=20
</FONT><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">this web address: <A=20
title=3D"http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm
CTRL + Click to follow =

Smagma's question is fairly confused, not getting off to a good starttalking
Smagma's question is fairly confused, not getting off to a good start
talking about Work rather than Tasks, but everythinbg he wants to do with
tracking can be done.

This is from an earlier thread in August 2008:

MSP knows about three aspects of any Task:
a.. Duration (measured in Working Days)
b.. Cost (measured in Dollars)
c.. Work (measured in Hours).
Most of the fields needed for Tracking, the important ones, are in the
Tracking Table.
There are four important numbers associated with these three aspects of any
Task:

DURATION
a.. Total Duration
b.. Actual Duration
c.. Remaining Duration
d.. % Complete = Actual/Total
COST
a.. Total Cost
b.. Actual Cost
c.. Remaining Cost
d.. % Cost Complete = Actual/Total
WORK
a.. Total Work
b.. Actual Work
c.. Remaining Work
d.. % Work Complete = Actual/Total
There are built-in fields for all of these, except % Cost Complete, and it
is easy to make one for this by using a spare Text field.
Only any two of these are independent, since Actual + Remaining = Total.


Be especially careful about using % Complete, which is about Duration, to
represent how much of the Task has been done.
Note that in MSP, % Complete is about the Duration, only.
MSP does not know (directly) about the progress of the Task itself.
Only the person who looks at the Task can know how much of it is done, how
much remains and how long that will take, ie what the Remaining Duration is.
Only the person who looks at the Task can make a decision about the estimate
of the Remaining Duration.
The Remaining Duration is the really important number because, as we saw,
this is what has an effect on the Successor Tasks and the Project Finish
Date.
Estimating the Remaining Duration when a Task is part complete is a second
chance to get the estimate right after an observation of how the Task is
going.
A Task is usually about something like laying the bricks or pouring the
concrete, and this gives rise to 4 similar values associated with the Task
itself:
a.. Total Task
b.. Actual Task
c.. Remaining Task
d.. % Task Complete = Actual/Total
A Task can also be something relatively easy to measure, such as "Lay 10000
bricks", or less tangible than laying bricks, but no less manageable, such
as "Write A Report" or "Draw a Drawing".
This is where the human judgement and estimating come in, in judging the
progress and the production rate and deciding whether the original estimate
was good or bad, and whether a re-estimate, and a change to the Remaining
Duration, is required.
Some Tasks, such as laying bricks, are easy to measure.
These Tasks, the ones that are easy to measure, can have longer Durations.
Other Tasks, which are harder to measure, must have shorter Durations, or
they will not be controllable.
Be wary of any progress for anything being reported as "x%".
If presented with such a number, ask "x% of what?"
A percent measurement of anything must always have a numerator and a
denominator, and you should be clear about what they are in every case.


With so much data available, and calculations being done by MSP in the
background, it is essential to have a standard, reliable, repeatable way of
setting up MSP so that you can see what you are doing when logging progress
and updating the project plan.


This checklist/procedure is intended, primarily, to ensure that before you
start Tracking and updating that you can see what you are doing.
You may wish to develop your own procedure, but make sure you can see what
you are doing:
1.. Save a Baseline (Tools, Tracking, Save Baseline)
2.. Set a Status Date (Project, Project Information, Status Date)
3.. Show Tracking Gantt View (View, Tracking Gantt)
4.. Show Tracking Table (View, Table, Tracking)
5.. Show Tracking Toolbar (View, Toolbar, Tracking )
6.. Format Gridlines to show the Status Date, Current Date, Start Date etc
((Format, Gridlines)
Record keeping is the key to having the necessary, accurate, data when you
need it.
You need to work out exactly what records are needed and ensure that they
are kept.
Many projects do not maintain accurate records, which makes meaningful
tracking impossible.
When logging progress, start with getting the answers to simple questions
which are based on objective records and the facts:
1.. When did the Task Actually Start (if it has started)?
2.. What has been the Actual Duration?

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