What are the signs of piracy?

A

Alfred Kaufmann

I built a new system for a friend, installed a new Windows XP Pro OEM
and Microsoft Office 2007 Professional trial version. Microsoft
update was running smoothly and everything was updated when the system
was turned over. I explained that if she wants to install an older
version of Office she should uninstall the trial.

Of course she did not do this, installed Office 2003 and then tried to
update. The update program choked and the cpu was running at 100%
utilization.

I was called and I uninstalled Office 2003, then uninstalled Office
2007 trial then re-installed Office 2003. Everything seems to be
working but again the Microsoft update program seems to be choking.
Could this Miscrosoft's way to telling the owner to buy a legal copy?
If so, I would prefer the update program to spell it out plainly to
the owner.

The Office 2003 that she installed came on a CD-R with the key written
with a black felt pen on it. It installed easily and activated fine
too. I was told it came from a licensed Microsoft techie that has a
volume license for Office. Am I being naive if I believe this? I can
take the machine back and waste a lot of time trying to fix this but I
really don't want to waste my time trying to help a pirate.

Al
 
A

Alfred Kaufmann

You know your friend, we don't. Does she know a "Microsoft techie"? Is she
the type to knowingly run pirated software?
Click to expand...

If she believes what she is told, would that make any difference?

So you are saying it is possible that the 2003 Office software she
installed may be perfectly legal and the Microsoft Update problem she
is having may lie elsewhere?

I would think that Microsoft can easily tell by now whether or not a
user has a geniune registered activated version of Office or spell it
on in their display in bright red flashing letters.

Ak
 
B

Beth Melton

I don't know about updates but you are told if your copy of Office isn't
valid in other situations, such as downloading content from Office Online. I
had only the proofing tools installed from Office 2003 so I could spell
check in OE, which wasn't enough to trigger activation, and was prevented
from downloading templates as a result. The Genuine Advantage Test told me
exactly why I failed validation.

Perhaps as a test you could try downloading a template from Office Online on
the computer and see if it passes. Although, potentially it could pass the
test and still be considered pirated software. A volume license agreement
doesn't necessarily mean you can hand out copies to your friends...

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Co-author of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
T

Tim

Even if the disk came from a "Microsoft techie" and even if it was from a
volume license, the "techie" cannot legally just give disks away like that.
In my opinion, the install of Office 2003 is pirated. I wouldn't have
anything to do with supporting her with that issue.

To answer your other question...if all the above is true, I don't believe
that would be the cause of the updates choking. It's probably more a result
of Office 2003 being installed "over" the Office 2007 trial. There are lots
of posts in this and other groups regarding problems with uninstalling
Office 2007 trial.

Tim
 
A

Alfred Kaufmann

To answer your other question...if all the above is true, I don't believe
that would be the cause of the updates choking. It's probably more a result
of Office 2003 being installed "over" the Office 2007 trial. There are lots
of posts in this and other groups regarding problems with uninstalling
Office 2007 trial.
Click to expand...

Yes I read about those problems and I specifically told her several
times that she needs to uninstall the Office 2007 trial if she wants
to install another version. Obviously that went in one ear and out
the other. I don't relish the prospect of re-installing her system
operating system but I at least know that is genuine. :)

I would tell her to take it to her "techie" but buying Office 2007
would be less than her travel costs.

Al
 
B

bobwyzguy

Just a thought, I have had a real problem with Microsoft Update as
opposed to the old reliable Windows Update. When we image a new
machine, we first run WINDOWS updates until there are no more and then
switch to MICROSOFT updates. If we don't, MS updates just hangs
forever,like overnight even.

BTW I am a "Microsoft Techie" who has given out Open License disks
just like the one described in the article, so it is possible that the
software is not a pirated copy. If it activates ok, she should be
fine.

Also, I just installed Office 2003 on a machine that had a retail 90
day trial of Office 2003 already installed. My bad, I missed it in
Add/Remove programs. Post installation, when I launched Word I got a
license key dialog box, and when I reentered my key, I was informed
the key was not valid. Uninstalling the trial version fixed the
problem, so your issue may be with the install over a newer version
and the subsequent downgrade.
 
A

Alfred Kaufmann

Just a thought, I have had a real problem with Microsoft Update as
opposed to the old reliable Windows Update. When we image a new
machine, we first run WINDOWS updates until there are no more and then
switch to MICROSOFT updates. If we don't, MS updates just hangs
forever,like overnight even.
Click to expand...

I always do that after installing the operating system or office. It
was done before the machine was turned over to her. Isn't one of the
first things that the Microsoft Update does is check that you are
using geniune software?
BTW I am a "Microsoft Techie" who has given out Open License disks
just like the one described in the article, so it is possible that the
software is not a pirated copy. If it activates ok, she should be
fine.
Click to expand...

It activated fine but I am running the retail version of the same
product and not experiencing this problem I begin to wonder.
Uninstalling the trial version fixed the
problem, so your issue may be with the install over a newer version
and the subsequent downgrade.
Click to expand...

That may be the problem but could this be what is confusing Microsoft
Update, drive c: has a folder containing all the documents and user
files rescued from her old drive c:? Drive D: is another old hard
drive and it also looks like it was a drive c: at one point. To
further confuse things it has a folder called OLDDRIVE that I did not
even bother to open.

Even reading what I just wrote makes me want to format all the hard
drives in her system. :-(

Ak
 
T

Tim

Am I missing something here? No...she is not "fine". Seems to me the
definition of "pirated" software is one that is not properly licensed. I
don't claim to be an expert in MS' Open License agreements but I don't
believe just because one has access to an Open License disk, one can give it
out to as many as he/she feels like it. The fact that it activates without a
problem is completely irrelevant. What matters is how the license was
obtained. In my mind, receiving software like that (from someone elses's
Open License agreement) would constitute possessing "pirated" software and
is not legal.

Tim
 
T

Tim

No...if you are referring to Office 2003 below (the one she got from her
"Microsoft techie"), it is not genuine...it is an illegal copy. She needs to
uninstall it and purchase a legitimate copy for herself.

Tim
 
J

Joe Grover

That is correct, as the owner of the volume license is supposed to report
the number of licenses in use and pay for each one. Handing out a copy to
someone either violates the licensing policy (if it isn't reported) or is
unethical in general (if it is being reported and someone else is paying for
it).

Joe
 
A

Alfred Kaufmann

Am I missing something here? No...she is not "fine". Seems to me the
definition of "pirated" software is one that is not properly licensed. I
don't claim to be an expert in MS' Open License agreements but I don't
believe just because one has access to an Open License disk, one can give it
out to as many as he/she feels like it. The fact that it activates without a
problem is completely irrelevant. What matters is how the license was
obtained. In my mind, receiving software like that (from someone elses's
Open License agreement) would constitute possessing "pirated" software and
is not legal.
Click to expand...

Am I required to find out how someone obtained the license? I don't
think so. Maybe she put in a lot of TLC to get this copy, that is not
my business.

Al
 
A

Alfred Kaufmann

That is correct, as the owner of the volume license is supposed to report
the number of licenses in use and pay for each one. Handing out a copy to
someone either violates the licensing policy (if it isn't reported) or is
unethical in general (if it is being reported and someone else is paying for
it).
Click to expand...

So the copy she has may be totally legal and above board. From what I
know the Microsoft techie has enough licenses for several employees
and for all I know he may consider her an employee.

Al
 
B

Bob I

Alfred said:
Am I required to find out how someone obtained the license? I don't
think so. Maybe she put in a lot of TLC to get this copy, that is not
my business.

Al
Click to expand...


You asked the question, you were given the answer. It's a fishy install.
 
T

Tom Willett

I have a friend who has a friend who was a MS employee, who said he had
licenses available for "friends". turns out those licenses were volume
licenses that were pirated keys.

|
| So the copy she has may be totally legal and above board. From what I
| know the Microsoft techie has enough licenses for several employees
| and for all I know he may consider her an employee.
|
| Al
|
 
J

JoAnn Paules

You need to figure out what you are going to do. You've been told that her
copy of Office is questionable from the legal standpoint. It's your call
whether you are going to turn a blind eye to that fact.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375
 
T

Tim

Sigh...how sad to watch the slow death of ethics. I don't remember any
mention of a "...if you put in a lot of TLC, then you don't need to pay for
this license and we'll call it even..." clause in the EULA.

But to get back to your original question that was never really answered
directly...yes, you are naive.

Tim
 
B

bobwyzguy

Not looking to start a firestorm of criticism here, but when you buy
an Open License you get one copy of the actual media, and a license to
install it on as many machines you purchased licenses. In corporate
environments where I have worked this sometimes meant burning a copy
and mailing to a remote site. We never sent the original media
because we NEVER got them back

To be fair, her copy may be stolen, but then, if this is for a work
computer, and was properly distributed to her by her "techie", there
is nothing unethical or illegal about it.

On the other hand, if this OL version was slipped to her under the
table and off the books, then it IS pirated, but it will still install
and run fine. At some point people need to be responsible for their
own moral, ethical, and legal choices - both her and the "techie"

My point is: just because it is a burn does not necessisarily make it
a pirated copy. It may be perfectly legal, or not, and there is no
way for us to know either way. If she continues to have problems, she
might want to chuck it in and get a retail copy, uninstall the "burn"
and install the retail version.

Under no circumstances are my remarks to be construed as meaning it is
ok to use pirated software if it activates without problems.
 
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