Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

[Word Hater]

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

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[Patrick Schmid]

Buy a good book and learn how to use Word. Or use OpenOffice if you
don't want to use Word and fight with the indentations there. It's not
going to be any easier.


Patrick Schmid

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

If you would turn off all the auto stuff (see
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/TameAutoFormat.htm) and take a little
time to learn how to use Word (you could learn enough to do indents just by
reading http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/concepts/introduction/index.html),
perhaps you wouldn't be so bitter.

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...1b67a5&dg=microsoft.public.word.docmanagement

 

[Word Hater]

Hi Patrick,

I feel your suggestions are poor. Why should I buy a book just to do
something that Word should simply be able to do?

When I copy and paste a heading and body text it should increase the
numbering on the new pasted heading as that is what I've set my numbering to
do. It doesnt. It resets it back to '4.1' when it should be '4.3'. If I right
click and select 'Continue Numbering' do you know what it does? Thats right.
Bugger all.

Conversley, a set of numbered points I've copied and pasted has continued
the numbering. I right click and select restart numbering and although it
restarts the numbering, it decides to indent it all by a tab. I asked to
restart the numbering not indent it as well.

In my eyes these are bugs and no book or increased knowledge on my behalf
will fix that. I have screen shot evidence of both these events happening
that I can show you if you so desire.

I cant dictate what software to install on my office computer so im stuck
with Word.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Jezebel]

Word IS "simply able to do this". If you're not prepared to learn to use the
tool, you get the obvious consequences. It's no surprise that your
supervisor thought your code was a lot of sh*t. On the evidence you've
provided so far, that could easily be true of everything you do.

 

[Word Hater]

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is doing what
it is doing.

The point is that this is a product that is used by millions of users and it
should be designed to be easy to use and intuitive. The two cases I explained
are highly UN-intuitive. i.e. click a menu option that indicates it will do
what you think it will when in actual fact it does nothing or something
completely different without telling you why or what for. Its these problems
that I find so confounding and frustrating. Im not alone. I know dozens of
people who hate this product for these very reasons. Its completely,
apparent, random behaviour actually slows my work down.

The best one just happened to me. I was looking at my doc, I switched
applications in windows, switched back, and lo, all my headings were now
"A,B,C,D,E" instead of "1.1,1.2,1.3" etc and all my numberings were "0,0,0,0"
instead of "1,2,3,4". I hadnt actually done ANYTHING, but I guess it wanted
to change it all for me.

I could be an expert on Word and indentation and all that but I still
wouldnt know why the f**king hell THAT happened!!!!

I'm sorry, but its a poor product and with all the money Microsoft they
should be bloody ashamed of themselves.

 

[Jezebel]

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.

 

[Word Hater]

And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

 

[Jezebel]

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would understand
why it is doing what it is doing.

 

[Word Hater]

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are the
points Im trying to make.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.

 

[Word Hater]

Im not gonna give up here. Yeah my attitude is a bit whiffy but lets get to
the point. Tell me why it changed all my headings from numbers to letters
simply by switching applications. Im sorry, but give me all the books you
want, that is a bug.

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have no
control over these problems.

Look at Propellerhead software's Reason. Its a real-time, cpu intensive,
hardware emulating sythesizer and music sequencer package. It can do all
manner of ridiculous things all at once. Do you know how many times its
crashed or acted in a way that confused me in the last 3 years Ive been using
it? None. True, its not a word processor, but if a small Sweedish company can
write software that can manage to do all these very techinical, cpu intesive
things all at once without dropping a single note or crashing ever and
Microsoft having trouble 'displaying a bit of text' what hope is there?!?

MS Word IS buggy. It IS un-intuitive. No amount of reading up can change
this. The fact that you suggest I should have to read a book to know how to
do these, lets face it, very basic tasks, only highlights its
un-intuitiveness.

ha.

 

[Charles Kenyon]

Word can do what you want, but you do have to learn to use it. The numbering
feature is poor, but I hear it is improved in the newest version.
Nevertheless, it can be made to work well.
--
See: How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Word
document
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html. (For
bullets see http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/bullets/controlbullets.html, the
subject is related.)

This is based on ...

Word's Numbering Explained
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm

Here is some general info on moving from Word Perfect to Word:

Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another (and from other
Word Processing programs). Each program's methods have strengths and
weaknesses; but, if you try to use one of these programs as if it were the
other, it is like pushing on a string! You can easily make a lot of extra
work for yourself. In the (short) long term (weeks rather than years)
spending the time to learn Word will save you time if you are spending any
time at all (more than an hour a day) using Word.

See http://www.addbalance.com/word/wordperfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/WordVsWordPerfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/TipsAndGotchas.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/WordPerfectConverters.htm
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/concepts/introduction/index.html
for information on Word for Word Perfect users.

For more:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart2.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart1.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/WhatTemplatesStore.htm


Function Keys

In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a
special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like
pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this.
Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys()
Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True
End Sub

Word's Extend key (F8) gives something similar to block processing.


Formatting and Styles

Learn about Styles - really learn!
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm I resisted for years and now
regret every day of those years because although that string was still very
hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important
projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word concept of
organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into place and instead
of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on the very powerful
text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it will start doing your
work for you instead of running around behind you trying to undo what you
just thought you did.


Converting documents Word / Word Perfect

Some special characters in Word Perfect documents don't convert well to
Word. There is a macro to assist with this described at
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/wptoword.html#macroword and can be found
at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/WPSymbolConv.bas.
This was prepared by Edward Mendelson.
Otherwise, look at the macro from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=212396
Use these on _copies_!

As for converting documents from Word Perfect to _use_ in Word... In a word,
don't plan on it. I would not recommend using converted documents long-term.
They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you at the worst
time. This is especially true of any documents containing automatic
numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word using the
following process:
In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as
text files.
Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your
formatting to look.
Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save
this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using
styles, not direct formatting. Save it again.
To use a template within Word, use File => New and pick your template. This
will create a new document for you.

Merge documents have special problems and should be recreated from text
files or retyped in Word. To convert data files, consider generating labels
in WP as a document, converting that to Word, and then using
http://www.gmayor.com/convert_labels_into_mail_merge.htm to get a new Word
data file.

Note that conversions usually do create documents that look passable and
print OK; the problems I'm referring to have to do with editing / making
changes, that is, using the documents long-term. (See below on reusing
documents vs. using templates.)

Conversion back to Word Perfect: There is a problem (in addition to the ones
mentioned for conversion _to_ Word) with Version 2002 (XP) and later of
Word. The conversion file only works for conversion _to_ Word, not from Word
to Word Perfect! Earlier versions went both ways. To fix this, you need to
find the old conversion file WPFT532.CNV from a Word 97 or Word 2000
installation and copy it to your new installation, replacing the file of the
same name. Note, the change making the file one-way was done as a security
measure. While I don't know of any problems the old file causes, keep the
new installation's file somewhere as a backup just in case.


Boilerplate and Forms

In WP a lot of people use macros to hold chunks of text - boilerplate. In
Word this function is filled by Templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect, not
macros. Follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#AutoText for more
information on these tools.

You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For more
about online forms, follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#Forms or
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customization/FillinTheBlanks.htm especially Dian
Chapman's series of articles. You may also want to look at
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/LinesInForms.htm.


Reusing Documents vs. Using templates

General practice in WP is to have a document and copy and edit it to create
a new document. This is not good practice in Word. In Word, construct a
good, tight, template for your documents and use that template when
constructing new documents. Among other things, this can avoid embarrassing
"metadata" (http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/metadata.htm) and things
like surprise headers and footers from creeping into new documents.

It's a lot of reading, I know. It's OK to chunk it down and do a bit each
day, but I would recommend that you make it a top priority to do that bit
each day. In the (short) long run, it will save you both time and grief.
--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs which is awesome!

My criminal law site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect
one.

My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have no
control over these problems.

Most software that is released into the world has only 80% of its bugs
fixed. Software that is completely bug-free doesn't exist and if one
tries to create it, would never ship anyhow. The closest the industry
gets to bug-free software is the software that is used in life-critical
applications, e.g. by NASA. And even then, bugs are everywhere and
software bugs have cost ESA e.g. one rocket (Ariane 5), NASA at least
one $1 billion probe, almost jeopardized another NASA mission, etc.
The point is that for space applications the most expensive and
exhaustive software engineering practices are used and it still has
bugs. Bugs are a fact of life of computer programs, and bug-free
software only exists if the program is very small (you can probably get
10-100 lines to be bug free)

Patrick Schmid

 

[Jezebel]

You storm in, announce to the world that you're a dickhead, and expect
answer from the people you abuse? Gee, did the dog fart in your bed last
night?

 

[Tim in Ottawa]

Word Hater,

You are like someone who has purchased a $20,000 Harley Davidson, but never
learned how to shift gears, so you are stuck putzing along in first gear,
complaining about why it doesn't go fast.

Questions about numbering, and why it suddenly changes on you, come up here
every day. The links provided to you above by the other posters point you to
what to do about it. Unfortunately, it requires actually learning to use the
software. There is no software anywhere that works without you having to
learn something about it.

I used to think the same thing about Word as you, but after following this
forum for the last month and learning to use the software, and how to work
around some bugs, I am a much more satisfied user.

 

[Word Hater]

Granted, 'storming in' here with a the subject and handle that I have used is
going to raise a few people's backs and cause a little comotion. However, I
have not directly offended anyone on this thread. I have challenged them to
answer some of my questions, but this is mere discussion and debate. The only
direct target of my venom is a collusal software company that should know
better. If you are offended by my comments then I can only come to the
conclusion that you are one of the developers of Word. This being the case I
severely doubt that all the problems that I am having with Word are down to
you. My point in all this being, Jez, is that I resent the 'dickhead' tag.

I do not expect answers as to why these things are happening either as
without people seeing it for themselves, its going to be very difficult for
them to provide an answer anyway. I am merely venting a little of my
frustration and would like some exceptance that Word is quite a buggy bit of
software and it can be quite un-intuitive at times.

As Patrick quite rightly states, no software is bug-free and being a
software developer myself I can fully appreciate this. MS Word is not a life
critical piece of software (although you could argue it is as over the years
I have had moments where I've wanted to end it all, thanks to Word )
whereas Nasa's software most likely is (I wonder if they use Word...). I'm
just saying that a software company like Microsoft that probably has the most
amount of time, money and resources in the world, plus a version history of
Word spanning over a decade or two, you'd think they'd be able to iron out
silly little bugs like the ones I'm seeing. If it were a tiny little software
house or bit of freeware, I would have no problems with these issues. The
fact that its Microsoft means that there's no excuse.

And before you think I'm a Microsoft basher, you couldnt be further from the
truth. I believe Microsoft is one of the most important companies in the
world today and if it wasnt for them we wouldnt be enjoying anything like the
advancement in home and professional PC usage we see today. I can't see the
point in Macs other than a marketing tool to get computing to look 'cool'.
There's nothing you can do on a mac that you cant do on a PC with windows,
but this is a whole new debate I dont even want to start. So before any MS
bods monitoring this thread get my real identity and burn my house down, I'd
like to say that Im only unhappy with Word. The rest is great.

Hope I've cleared things up, angry people.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

I am pretty sure that there is enough Word knowledge in this newsgroup
to explain every situation you are encountering, if you provide clear
reproduction steps, meaning what you did exactly and what happened then.
It is important to provide the slightest details for that. As your
issues seemed to be focused around indentation, individual keystrokes
matter.

The experts in this newsgroup helping everyone include a lot of the
authors that write the Word books, consultants who earn a living just
from Word, etc. There are also quite a few people in here who are
members of the Office 2007 Technical Beta Community. If there is
something you are experiencing that still behaves the same in Word 2007
and no one can provide an explanation for, a member of the tech beta can
easily get an answer from Microsoft on that. I for example did that a
week or so ago on an issue and within a day had a reply from Microsoft
explaining why something quite weird was happening.

So in short...There is an explanation for everything and the people in
this newsgroup either know it already or will make an effort to find it
out. Give us a good explanation what you are exactly seeing and it is
probably a good idea to first educate yourself on some of the basic
stuff related to the issues as well.

Patrick Schmid

 

[Chris]

Word hater, I'm with you on this one. I've had countless problems with
indents and numbering that it becomes a nightmare, and I also agree that it's
a simple function that the program should have no problems in doing,
regardless of what anyone says or suggests...reading books etc etc etc it
shouldn't be required because you know as well as me that it is a basic
function of a word processor. Whether I'm using Office 97, 2000, XP or 2007
B2, the same problem is there in EVERY one of them.

As for Jezebel, you are obviously blinded by love to Microsoft so much that
you can't admit that there his complaint is valid. Instead you criticise him
of doing things he hasn't done, abuse him yourself and have the audacity to
offer no help whatsoever. Great work....!
No doubt you'll suggest the same thing to me as you did to Word Hater, feel
free as that's all I'm expecting from you at the moment...or maybe another
copy and paste from your good self?

Patrick, as for assuming he hasn't tried to understand how Word
works....mate, he shouldn't have to for things like this. It is really quite
frustrating but you've already been told that. Furthermore, he doesn't need
to spoon feed you or anyone else about what happened, blind Freddy could tell
you what he's talking about. That's just a cop out because you don't know the
solution.

Word Hater, although you could have approached the problem better, your
comments are still valid however you're not going to get an answer and
neither am I as to why this happens. The reason being they don't have a
solution. If there was one, it would have been fixed a long, long time ago.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

The first person to post a personal attack on anyone here who isn't an
anonymous coward (as slashdot calls anyone who posts anonymously; the
equivalent is posting here as "Chris" or "John") is going to get a
bonbon from me.

Patrick Schmid